Pixel Joint Forum: [WIP][Newbie] Voltorb

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Oddric
Seaman
Seaman

Joined: 23 July 2014
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Posts: 5

Topic: [WIP][Newbie] Voltorb
Posted: 23 July 2014 at 3:26pm

Hello! I tried my hand at actually making sprite today after a few days of lurking and understanding pixel theory. Pokemon sprites as a starting point seemed like it was up my alley so I'm starting with that.

Maybe I should have made voltorb a bit bigger, and I was going to, but any circle I tried making looked a bit... off. And I tried to steer away from the circle function of GraphicsGale.

I was wondering if you guys could give me some advice. Maybe... not even so much on what there is to "fix" with the voltorb but with how I should approach something in future. I do have a bit of trouble with color palettes and color theory... I've looked up a lot of palette tutorials and how to use them, really quite a lot, but I feel like I'm just missing something. Like I don't know how the theory, creation, and practice all fits together. But I guess that's another issue and hopefully it'll diminish with experience.

Thanks so much.

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DawnBringer
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Joined: 11 August 2024
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Posts: 568

Posted: 23 July 2014 at 3:59pm

If you need a circle, use the circle-tool! Any tool that does something you could do as good by hand (but it would just waste time) is ok. However, one may not be able to make a perfect circle...but it's still an accepted "exception".

Don't work on a white background, use something closer to medium gray. And don't outer AA a sprite unless you know exactly what (constant) background it will be used against.

Your colors look ok, you seem to have found a good starting point. Don't overthink it.

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Daruda
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Joined: 03 February 2015
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Posts: 103

Posted: 23 July 2014 at 5:52pm

Originally posted by DawnBringer

If you need a circle, use the circle-tool! Any tool that does something you could do as good by hand (but it would just waste time) is ok. However, one may not be able to make a perfect circle...but it's still an accepted "exception".

Don't work on a white background, use something closer to medium gray. And don't outer AA a sprite unless you know exactly what (constant) background it will be used against.

Your colors look ok, you seem to have found a good starting point. Don't overthink it.

I quote everything up there. Take DawnBringer words as gold.

Anyway! Welcome to PJ!

Yesterday I made this little tutorial for another person, it's about making a boulder, since it's similar and it show my process, you may want to read it.

About the color theory, since you have problems with it, I've made a little tutorial about the Hue shift that is the easiest thing about the theory. It's elementary, but this picture in my head worked for me when I didn't understand much about colors .

Make a Version of your Voltorb without all the the outer AA and we'll give you some C+C. :D

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Oddric
Seaman
Seaman

Joined: 23 July 2014
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 5

Posted: 24 July 2014 at 9:03am

Thank you guys for the advice! I definitely see what you guys are saying on the AA and gray background.

I didn't do a good job organizing my colors, in fact I think maybe I used too many. I was sort of winging it.

EDIT:

I went ahead and did a little more to it after some advice from someone else. I like this look a lot more.

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jalonso
Admiral
Admiral

Joined: 29 November 2022
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Posts: 13537

Posted: 24 July 2014 at 9:30am

You beat me to asking about fixing all the banding on the red to white part :p

PJs FAQ <•> Sticky Reads

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Daruda
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Joined: 03 February 2015
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Posts: 103

Posted: 24 July 2014 at 3:55pm

I feel like your colors are too much washed and it lacks volume.
A little edit.

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Oddric
Seaman
Seaman

Joined: 23 July 2014
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Posts: 5

Posted: 24 July 2014 at 5:59pm

Originally posted by Daruda

I feel like your colors are too much washed and it lacks volume.
A little edit.

I sort of agree with you! I reduced how many colors I used originally, but I could have taken it a step further. I like what you did with it. It feels... it has an "older" feel to it, if that makes since.

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Damian
Commander

Joined: 24 February 2023
Location: United Kingdom
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Posts: 455

Posted: 25 July 2014 at 5:30am

For someone who hasn't done pixel art I think you're off to a great start. I don't think Daruda's edit is in the right direction, that could be by preference though, I think it's a bit too vibrant and while he's got the idea of blue shifting for shadows, actually going blue is not always the right answer.

In terms of colour I actually think you're pretty close with what you had. You can clearly see you've captured your subject as a red and white ball. So whats left?

AA, you've got a very basic idea of how AA works, but it could be better. Removing the outer AA with sprites is something you have to learn early in pixel art because when you introduce varied backgrounds those pixels stand out like a sore thumb. Inner AA could be better with the pallet you already have, but learning how to use your pallet efficiently comes with experience. For example, the middle line looks a bit jagged and could use the darker brown to help transition into the lighter colour.

Volume, you're not creating the volume you need at the moment. You said you've read colour theory, but I actually encourage you to read up on Light theory. Once you have a better understanding of how light works, you'll be amazed how much more volume you can get from your future work.

BTW, don't be afraid show references. There are plenty of Voltorb references out there that can give you ideas. I've made an edit and these were my references.
http://fc04.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2010/315/1/8/100___voltorb_by_winter_freak-d32npg9.jpg

http://www.zerochan.net/1125598

http://www.zerochan.net/814454

And below is the edit. The above references captured my attention and appeal to my preferences, so the edit is an outcome of the two.

Edited by Damian - 26 July 2014 at 4:52am

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Oddric
Seaman
Seaman

Joined: 23 July 2014
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 5

Posted: 25 July 2014 at 6:23am

Yes, I definitely had a bit of trouble with the AA. I didn't linger on the middle line too long, but I recognized it was a bit jagged.

Also, I found a good website the explained hue shifting so well, I finally started to grasp the concept: http://www.planetminecraft.com/blog/1000-subscriber-special-color-theory-101-hue-shifting-palettes-and-stuff/

I like your edit as well! Those are also neat references. I'll look at more next time I try working on something. I definitely don't quite understand the whole light and volume theory. I see the... additional "volume" on your edit, but at the same time I feel like I'm missing something. Story of my life. Lol.

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Daruda
Commander

Joined: 03 February 2015
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 103

Posted: 25 July 2014 at 2:51pm

Originally posted by Damian

For someone who hasn't done pixel art I think you're off to a great start. I don't think Daruda's edit is in the right direction, that could be by preference though, I think it's a bit too vibrant and while he's got the idea of blue shifting for shadows, actually going blue is not always the right answer.

In terms of colour I actually think you're pretty close with what you had. You can clearly see you've captured your subject as a red and white ball. So whats left?

AA, you've got a very basic idea of how AA works, but it could be better. Removing the outer AA with sprites is something you have to learn early in pixel art because when you introduce varied backgrounds those pixels stand out like a sore thumb. Inner AA could be better with the pallet you already have, but learning how to use your pallet efficiently comes with experience. For example, the middle line looks a bit jagged and could use the darker brown to help transition into the lighter colour.

Volume, you're not creating the volume you need at the moment. You said you've read colour theory, but I actually encourage you to read up on Light theory. I've got a .PDF book that could help if you want (ask and I'l PM it to you), it's about painting, but the first 150 odd pages about light are great. Once you have a better understanding of how light works, you'll be amazed how much more volume you can get from your future work.

BTW, don't be afraid show references. There are plenty of Voltorb references out there that can give you ideas. I've made an edit and these were my references.
http://fc04.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2010/315/1/8/100___voltorb_by_winter_freak-d32npg9.jpg

http://www.zerochan.net/1125598

http://www.zerochan.net/814454

And below is the edit. The above references captured my attention and appeal to my preferences, so the edit is an outcome of the two.

Oh, I like it, great edit.
But yes, I love extreme HUE shifts and high contrast, it's not right or much real, but I like it.
Your edit anyway showed many things that mine lacked, colors are no excuse for not adding details. So since I was already there studding your edit, I made another edit. Although it's not my style, I would really like to learn more on your palette.

@Oddric Did you see cure's tutorial? It explain most of the things, AA too. It's in the support forum.

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Damian
Commander

Joined: 24 February 2023
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 455

Posted: 26 July 2014 at 4:48am

BTW, here's a decent read about light and form that I found , not as much information compared what he has on the same subject in his book, but enough to take something away. Enjoy the read.
Form and Light -James Gurney

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Oddric
Seaman
Seaman

Joined: 23 July 2014
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 5

Posted: 26 July 2014 at 5:48am

I appreciate the additional edit, Daruda! I love the different methods between you and Damian, although both are viable and lovely.

Thanks for the link, Damian. I'll be saving that reference for sure!

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WIP (Work In Progress)
Pixel Joint Forum : Pixel Art : WIP (Work In Progress)

Author	Message
Oddric Seaman Joined: 23 July 2014 Online Status: Offline Posts: 5	Topic: [WIP][Newbie] Voltorb Posted: 23 July 2014 at 3:26pm
	Hello! I tried my hand at actually making sprite today after a few days of lurking and understanding pixel theory. Pokemon sprites as a starting point seemed like it was up my alley so I'm starting with that. Maybe I should have made voltorb a bit bigger, and I was going to, but any circle I tried making looked a bit... off. And I tried to steer away from the circle function of GraphicsGale. I was wondering if you guys could give me some advice. Maybe... not even so much on what there is to "fix" with the voltorb but with how I should approach something in future. I do have a bit of trouble with color palettes and color theory... I've looked up a lot of palette tutorials and how to use them, really quite a lot, but I feel like I'm just missing something. Like I don't know how the theory, creation, and practice all fits together. But I guess that's another issue and hopefully it'll diminish with experience. Thanks so much.
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DawnBringer Commander Joined: 11 August 2024 Online Status: Offline Posts: 568	Posted: 23 July 2014 at 3:59pm
	If you need a circle, use the circle-tool! Any tool that does something you could do as good by hand (but it would just waste time) is ok. However, one may not be able to make a perfect circle...but it's still an accepted "exception". Don't work on a white background, use something closer to medium gray. And don't outer AA a sprite unless you know exactly what (constant) background it will be used against. Your colors look ok, you seem to have found a good starting point. Don't overthink it.
	IP Logged

Daruda Commander Joined: 03 February 2015 Online Status: Offline Posts: 103	Posted: 23 July 2014 at 5:52pm
	*Originally posted by DawnBringer* If you need a circle, use the circle-tool! Any tool that does something you could do as good by hand (but it would just waste time) is ok. However, one may not be able to make a perfect circle...but it's still an accepted "exception". Don't work on a white background, use something closer to medium gray. And don't outer AA a sprite unless you know exactly what (constant) background it will be used against. Your colors look ok, you seem to have found a good starting point. Don't overthink it. I quote everything up there. Take DawnBringer words as gold. Anyway! Welcome to PJ! Yesterday I made this little tutorial for another person, it's about making a boulder, since it's similar and it show my process, you may want to read it. About the color theory, since you have problems with it, I've made a little tutorial about the Hue shift that is the easiest thing about the theory. It's elementary, but this picture in my head worked for me when I didn't understand much about colors . Make a Version of your Voltorb without all the the outer AA and we'll give you some C+C. :D
	IP Logged

Oddric Seaman Joined: 23 July 2014 Online Status: Offline Posts: 5	Posted: 24 July 2014 at 9:03am
	Thank you guys for the advice! I definitely see what you guys are saying on the AA and gray background. I didn't do a good job organizing my colors, in fact I think maybe I used too many. I was sort of winging it. EDIT: I went ahead and did a little more to it after some advice from someone else. I like this look a lot more.
	IP Logged

jalonso Admiral Joined: 29 November 2022 Online Status: Offline Posts: 13537	Posted: 24 July 2014 at 9:30am
	You beat me to asking about fixing all the banding on the red to white part :p
	PJs FAQ <•> Sticky Reads
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Daruda Commander Joined: 03 February 2015 Online Status: Offline Posts: 103	Posted: 24 July 2014 at 3:55pm
	I feel like your colors are too much washed and it lacks volume. A little edit.
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Oddric Seaman Joined: 23 July 2014 Online Status: Offline Posts: 5	Posted: 24 July 2014 at 5:59pm
	*Originally posted by Daruda* I feel like your colors are too much washed and it lacks volume. A little edit. I sort of agree with you! I reduced how many colors I used originally, but I could have taken it a step further. I like what you did with it. It feels... it has an "older" feel to it, if that makes since.
	IP Logged

Damian Commander Joined: 24 February 2023 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 455	Posted: 25 July 2014 at 5:30am
	For someone who hasn't done pixel art I think you're off to a great start. I don't think Daruda's edit is in the right direction, that could be by preference though, I think it's a bit too vibrant and while he's got the idea of blue shifting for shadows, actually going blue is not always the right answer. In terms of colour I actually think you're pretty close with what you had. You can clearly see you've captured your subject as a red and white ball. So whats left? AA, you've got a very basic idea of how AA works, but it could be better. Removing the outer AA with sprites is something you have to learn early in pixel art because when you introduce varied backgrounds those pixels stand out like a sore thumb. Inner AA could be better with the pallet you already have, but learning how to use your pallet efficiently comes with experience. For example, the middle line looks a bit jagged and could use the darker brown to help transition into the lighter colour. Volume, you're not creating the volume you need at the moment. You said you've read colour theory, but I actually encourage you to read up on Light theory. Once you have a better understanding of how light works, you'll be amazed how much more volume you can get from your future work. BTW, don't be afraid show references. There are plenty of Voltorb references out there that can give you ideas. I've made an edit and these were my references. http://fc04.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2010/315/1/8/100___voltorb_by_winter_freak-d32npg9.jpg http://www.zerochan.net/1125598 http://www.zerochan.net/814454 And below is the edit. The above references captured my attention and appeal to my preferences, so the edit is an outcome of the two. Edited by Damian - 26 July 2014 at 4:52am
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Oddric Seaman Joined: 23 July 2014 Online Status: Offline Posts: 5	Posted: 25 July 2014 at 6:23am
	Yes, I definitely had a bit of trouble with the AA. I didn't linger on the middle line too long, but I recognized it was a bit jagged. Also, I found a good website the explained hue shifting so well, I finally started to grasp the concept: http://www.planetminecraft.com/blog/1000-subscriber-special-color-theory-101-hue-shifting-palettes-and-stuff/ I like your edit as well! Those are also neat references. I'll look at more next time I try working on something. I definitely don't quite understand the whole light and volume theory. I see the... additional "volume" on your edit, but at the same time I feel like I'm missing something. Story of my life. Lol.
	IP Logged

Daruda Commander Joined: 03 February 2015 Online Status: Offline Posts: 103	Posted: 25 July 2014 at 2:51pm
	*Originally posted by Damian* For someone who hasn't done pixel art I think you're off to a great start. I don't think Daruda's edit is in the right direction, that could be by preference though, I think it's a bit too vibrant and while he's got the idea of blue shifting for shadows, actually going blue is not always the right answer. In terms of colour I actually think you're pretty close with what you had. You can clearly see you've captured your subject as a red and white ball. So whats left? AA, you've got a very basic idea of how AA works, but it could be better. Removing the outer AA with sprites is something you have to learn early in pixel art because when you introduce varied backgrounds those pixels stand out like a sore thumb. Inner AA could be better with the pallet you already have, but learning how to use your pallet efficiently comes with experience. For example, the middle line looks a bit jagged and could use the darker brown to help transition into the lighter colour. Volume, you're not creating the volume you need at the moment. You said you've read colour theory, but I actually encourage you to read up on Light theory. I've got a .PDF book that could help if you want (ask and I'l PM it to you), it's about painting, but the first 150 odd pages about light are great. Once you have a better understanding of how light works, you'll be amazed how much more volume you can get from your future work. BTW, don't be afraid show references. There are plenty of Voltorb references out there that can give you ideas. I've made an edit and these were my references. http://fc04.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2010/315/1/8/100___voltorb_by_winter_freak-d32npg9.jpg http://www.zerochan.net/1125598 http://www.zerochan.net/814454 And below is the edit. The above references captured my attention and appeal to my preferences, so the edit is an outcome of the two. Oh, I like it, great edit. But yes, I love extreme HUE shifts and high contrast, it's not right or much real, but I like it. Your edit anyway showed many things that mine lacked, colors are no excuse for not adding details. So since I was already there studding your edit, I made another edit. Although it's not my style, I would really like to learn more on your palette. @Oddric Did you see cure's tutorial? It explain most of the things, AA too. It's in the support forum.
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Damian Commander Joined: 24 February 2023 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 455	Posted: 26 July 2014 at 4:48am
	BTW, here's a decent read about light and form that I found , not as much information compared what he has on the same subject in his book, but enough to take something away. Enjoy the read. Form and Light -James Gurney
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Oddric Seaman Joined: 23 July 2014 Online Status: Offline Posts: 5	Posted: 26 July 2014 at 5:48am
	I appreciate the additional edit, Daruda! I love the different methods between you and Damian, although both are viable and lovely. Thanks for the link, Damian. I'll be saving that reference for sure!
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