Pixel Joint Forum: lizard dragon wip improvement

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Message

icarotkd
Midshipman

Joined: 18 February 2016
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 44

Topic: lizard dragon wip improvement
Posted: 15 August 2017 at 9:45am

I made this dragon here (that ended up looking more like a giant lizard than a dragon)
and i wanted to know how to make it better...
thanks

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eishiya
Commander

Joined: 04 August 2022
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1109

Posted: 15 August 2017 at 10:36am

The dragon looks very flat, because you're shading all the details independently of each other, and ignoring the underlying form. Some of those scales should be entirely in shadow, some should be receiving more light, depending on where the light source is (I can't tell!) and where on the body they are.

The PSG Art Tutorial explains this issue visually:
This is what you've done, the textures.
This is what you're missing, the underlying form shadows that give the object volume.
This is what it looks like when you have both volume and texture. Isn't that a lot more readable than the texture-only version? You can achieve the same thing with your dragon by paying attention to its 3D form and applying shadows accordingly.

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icarotkd
Midshipman

Joined: 18 February 2016
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 44

Posted: 15 August 2017 at 10:51am

Thanks, i see what you mean...I have a huge problem with shading and perspective...Sometimes, i find it hard to keep the piece interesting color wise when i have to make some things darker because of the shadows...I'll look into it though....Also, the light's suposed to be coming from top left

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icarotkd
Midshipman

Joined: 18 February 2016
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 44

Posted: 15 August 2017 at 11:25am

So, i've tried following your advice, how's it turning out now?

imgur
http://imgur.com/bVVqjsM

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eishiya
Commander

Joined: 04 August 2022
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1109

Posted: 15 August 2017 at 1:03pm

Much better! (But where did the other wing go?)
You could probably also make the individual limbs rounder, too.

If the light is coming from the top left, why are the chest scales and wing highlights on the bottom?

Anatomy issues:
The raised front leg is either much longer than the other one, or it's attached much lower than the other one is.
The wing spines make no sense. Bat-type wings are actually basically hands, the spines all emanate from roughly a single point, the "wrist". Here's an image that explains it better.

In the future, try doing the major forms first, before you draw in the small details. It might help you think more clearly about the forms, and it'll save you time since by the time you get to the details, you'll know which ones need full highlight/shadow work, and which ones do not.

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icarotkd
Midshipman

Joined: 18 February 2016
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 44

Posted: 15 August 2017 at 1:19pm

Thanks man.
I've hidden the wing layer and forgot to show it again when i sent the png file, sorry, its still there though...

I'll look into those things, hopefully it'll look better in a while, thanks again.

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NancyGold
Commander

Joined: 27 October 2021
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 526

Posted: 03 October 2017 at 12:48pm

Anatomy looks completely broken. I would recommend doing it in the following order:
1. Draw stick figure.
2. Turn sticks into bones.
3. Add muscles and fat to to the bones.
4. Add skin over the muscles.
5. Shade the skin, including self-shading.
6. Now texture the skin - i.e. draw scales, taking existing shading into account.

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WIP (Work In Progress)
Pixel Joint Forum : Pixel Art : WIP (Work In Progress)

Author	Message
icarotkd Midshipman Joined: 18 February 2016 Online Status: Offline Posts: 44	Topic: lizard dragon wip improvement Posted: 15 August 2017 at 9:45am
	I made this dragon here (that ended up looking more like a giant lizard than a dragon) and i wanted to know how to make it better... thanks
	IP Logged

eishiya Commander Joined: 04 August 2022 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1109	Posted: 15 August 2017 at 10:36am
	The dragon looks very flat, because you're shading all the details independently of each other, and ignoring the underlying form. Some of those scales should be entirely in shadow, some should be receiving more light, depending on where the light source is (I can't tell!) and where on the body they are. The PSG Art Tutorial explains this issue visually: This is what you've done, the textures. This is what you're missing, the underlying form shadows that give the object volume. This is what it looks like when you have both volume and texture. Isn't that a lot more readable than the texture-only version? You can achieve the same thing with your dragon by paying attention to its 3D form and applying shadows accordingly.
	IP Logged

icarotkd Midshipman Joined: 18 February 2016 Online Status: Offline Posts: 44	Posted: 15 August 2017 at 10:51am
	Thanks, i see what you mean...I have a huge problem with shading and perspective...Sometimes, i find it hard to keep the piece interesting color wise when i have to make some things darker because of the shadows...I'll look into it though....Also, the light's suposed to be coming from top left
	IP Logged

icarotkd Midshipman Joined: 18 February 2016 Online Status: Offline Posts: 44	Posted: 15 August 2017 at 11:25am
	So, i've tried following your advice, how's it turning out now? imgur http://imgur.com/bVVqjsM
	IP Logged

eishiya Commander Joined: 04 August 2022 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1109	Posted: 15 August 2017 at 1:03pm
	Much better! (But where did the other wing go?) You could probably also make the individual limbs rounder, too. If the light is coming from the top left, why are the chest scales and wing highlights on the bottom? Anatomy issues: The raised front leg is either much longer than the other one, or it's attached much lower than the other one is. The wing spines make no sense. Bat-type wings are actually basically hands, the spines all emanate from roughly a single point, the "wrist". Here's an image that explains it better. In the future, try doing the major forms first, before you draw in the small details. It might help you think more clearly about the forms, and it'll save you time since by the time you get to the details, you'll know which ones need full highlight/shadow work, and which ones do not.
	IP Logged

icarotkd Midshipman Joined: 18 February 2016 Online Status: Offline Posts: 44	Posted: 15 August 2017 at 1:19pm
	Thanks man. I've hidden the wing layer and forgot to show it again when i sent the png file, sorry, its still there though... I'll look into those things, hopefully it'll look better in a while, thanks again.
	IP Logged

NancyGold Commander Joined: 27 October 2021 Online Status: Offline Posts: 526	Posted: 03 October 2017 at 12:48pm
	Anatomy looks completely broken. I would recommend doing it in the following order: 1. Draw stick figure. 2. Turn sticks into bones. 3. Add muscles and fat to to the bones. 4. Add skin over the muscles. 5. Shade the skin, including self-shading. 6. Now texture the skin - i.e. draw scales, taking existing shading into account.
	IP Logged