Pixel Joint Forum: Animation and Color Compositions

Author

Message

AirStyle
Commander

Joined: 13 November 2017
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 376

Topic: Animation and Color Compositions
Posted: 26 December 2017 at 12:08pm

Hi guys. I'm making this to get critique on a couple of things I'm working on.

First one is this:

It's supposed a bunch of glowing pixels within a ribbed glass jar.

Please critique. I'll be back with more soon.

IP Logged

Hapiel
Rear Admiral

Joined: 30 June 2023
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3266

Posted: 26 December 2017 at 2:18pm

Nice work! There is one frame where the pixels don't move, and it feels like the animation resets there.. try to always have most of them moving? It's hard tot race their paths because their size changes.. did you try to make them look like flat sheets, or why does their size change? I'd keep it the same mostly...
In the bottom left corner there is one part which lights up outside the rest of the cage, and the light needs a fade out there. also the bottom of the glass needs to be lit much more of the time. now it blinks on and off.. It reads more like a cage than a glass, a glass would also light up on the parts in between the ribs, but with different timing
The top of the glass needs to be lit all the time I guess

keep it up!

IP Logged

AirStyle
Commander

Joined: 13 November 2017
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 376

Posted: 26 December 2017 at 3:14pm

Thanks for the input! Okay so one thing at a time.

Originally posted by Hapiel

There is one frame where the pixels don't move, and it feels like the animation resets there.. try to always have most of them moving?

Yeah that mess bugs me so much! I did this in steps. Here they are: https://imgur.com/a/4Os8J

The first step was just to get the pixels moving. When that looked good I moved to the next steps, which was lightmasses, and then glass rib refraction. it wasn't until that LAST...STEP...that it started looking wrong. Ugh!!!

I tried to see If I could slow down the change by just copying a few frames and see it that would work (without having to fix all that dang light bloom again), but that didn't work. I might be able to do something.

Originally posted by Hapiel

It's hard to trace their paths because their size changes.. did you try to make them look like flat sheets[...]

Well, they ARE pixels...I guess I could have given them depth, but I honestly didn't have a problem with their flatness. Does it really look bad?

Originally posted by Hapiel

[...]or why does their size change? I'd keep it the same mostly...

The point in that choice was to make the pixels appear to move around in a 3D space instead of a 2D space. Since they move further to the back of the jar, they should get smaller by comparison, as should their light blooms. Keeping them the same size would have made them more confusing. As for tracing their paths: I'm sorry. Not sure what I could do except start over. While making their paths, I was trying to make sure that they only exchanged places, in an effort to not leave dark spots in the glass. That made their paths run close together at times. Plus, I'm thinking the light blooms aid in their confusion, in addition to me making them disappear behind the front ribs for refraction.

Originally posted by Hapiel

In the bottom left corner there is one part which lights up outside the rest of the cage, and the light needs a fade out there. Also the bottom of the glass needs to be lit much more of the time. now it blinks on and off... It reads more like a cage than a glass, a glass would also light up on the parts in between the ribs, but with different timing.

Duly noted.

I was thinking the same thing. I'm really hoping your refraction tip will help on that legibility.

Different timing...Hmm...

Originally posted by Hapiel

The top of the glass needs to be lit all the time I guess.

Your "I guess" says it all. I was thinking about the same thing when choosing what to do with the top of the jar. Technically none of the light reaches high enough to light it, but it looks weird just sitting there, So "I guess" I can do it, but I'm not sure.

Thanks for the critique. I really appreciate this.

By the way, is there a problem with the forum? Every time I tried to use an image or a link, it either has an error occur, or the link gets remove when I submit the post.

IP Logged

AirStyle
Commander

Joined: 13 November 2017
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 376

Posted: 11 January 2018 at 11:23pm

Finally back. Sorry, I dipped out to work on something else, but got some breather room to make a quit edit for the pixels.

In terms of the motion of the pixels, how does this look?

IP Logged

Hapiel
Rear Admiral

Joined: 30 June 2023
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3266

Posted: 12 January 2018 at 7:57am

The top left one seems to blink a bit, the one below it has strange moments where it seems to grow and shrink repeatedly really fast. Bottom right seems to have a point where it stops moving at the bottom left corner of it's curve.
middle right has a very big jump when it's tiny. Top right also has a big jump downwards while growing.

Those are the things that stand out to me. I best like the bottom left one, which seems smooth alround. But smooth doesn't have to be good, if you want them to jitter that's alright of course!

IP Logged

AirStyle
Commander

Joined: 13 November 2017
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 376

Posted: 12 January 2018 at 11:54am

Keep in mind that these pixels have already been treated with refraction, so they may not all keep their usual square appearance.

Maybe this will make it look better, at least in terms of the jittering:

Now, for the top right and its neighbor below: eh...I don't know. I was kind of OK with how they fluttered around. I figured that if I made them all fly super smooth, it wouldn't look as..."authentic"? (If this concept even has a degree of authenticity, what with being pixels buzzing around in a jar, and all). So I was fine with mixing it up a little.

I guess I'll fix them though. Thanks for the further input. I really want to get this ironed out before I do those lightmasses. Those things are a pain to redo, but with how I've set the file up this time, it will be a lot easier to fix them.

IP Logged

Hapiel
Rear Admiral

Joined: 30 June 2023
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3266

Posted: 12 January 2018 at 12:28pm

Yes, that does fix the jittering! Did you change any of the patterns, or just overlay the cage?

Only the middle right still stands out now with its jump.

Good job on motivating yourself to redo it, only once you've done the whole thing you learn how to actually do it....

IP Logged

AirStyle
Commander

Joined: 13 November 2017
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 376

Posted: 12 January 2018 at 12:40pm

I changed absolutely nothing! All I did was add that cage! :)
I knew that would fix it.

Good. I only need to fix the middle right one, then. Great!
But honestly, I'm still a little torn, but on a different part of it.
I told you before how it's supposed to be a ribbed jar, instead of a cage, but I'm not sure how I can do that now. I looked up some images for lights in a bottle, and I found this one:

Then I remembered how you said that the glass should have some diffuse lighting, and that delay of the same should give off the illusion of refraction. However, I'm not sure how I should go about it. I'll try a couple of things, and see what it is that I can do to simulate what I have in mind.

Also, you see an this reflection in the jar? Maybe I should something like that? But then, I'm sure, with this small of the picture, that would make the paths even harder to discern, not to mention all the calculations that would have to go into it. lol.

IP Logged

Hapiel
Rear Admiral

Joined: 30 June 2023
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3266

Posted: 12 January 2018 at 12:52pm

good ref pic! Ribbed it's gonna be even harder!

Oh and btw don't take my word for it about the jitter, maybe get some quick feedback somewhere else too (WIP forum is slow, I know... maybe check in the PJ discord real quick?)

You don't need to do calculations and stuff if you understand how it feels, and then trick our brains by recreating that feel... We're not going to recalculate your light trajectories anyway.... However, you did choose a really hard subject, especially to animate!

Reminds me of this scene of Roger Rabbit , famous among animators

IP Logged

AirStyle
Commander

Joined: 13 November 2017
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 376

Posted: 12 January 2018 at 1:58pm

I actually never watched that movie, and I really should.

So based on the first comment, I assume you're talking about the lighting change on Roger Rabbit? Then that's really cool.

As for the calculations, I was thinking that once I've done calculation enough, then I would have the feel naturally afterwards. However, I don't do well without plans, and I tend to just float, and eventually not fix anything. I've learned that about myself. I'll try not to get stuck, though; I get what you mean. Don't overthink: another problem I have.

"PJ Discord"? That's a thing? All I knew about was the skype one, and since then, I've been using the Pixel Dailies Discord y'all posted on PJ one day. You'll have to send me the link on that one.

But thanks for the input so far.

IP Logged

Hapiel
Rear Admiral

Joined: 30 June 2023
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3266

Posted: 12 January 2018 at 3:54pm

Yeah, I meant the insane lighting they did on the animation, to show off that hey were willing to go the extra mile.

As for the discord, it's the same people as were in the skype group, but discord turned out to be fancier :)

IP Logged

AirStyle
Commander

Joined: 13 November 2017
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 376

Posted: 12 January 2018 at 5:49pm

Cool. Thanks.

IP Logged

WIP (Work In Progress)
Pixel Joint Forum : Pixel Art : WIP (Work In Progress)

Author	Message
AirStyle Commander Joined: 13 November 2017 Online Status: Offline Posts: 376	Topic: Animation and Color Compositions Posted: 26 December 2017 at 12:08pm
	Hi guys. I'm making this to get critique on a couple of things I'm working on. First one is this: It's supposed a bunch of glowing pixels within a ribbed glass jar. Please critique. I'll be back with more soon.
	IP Logged

Hapiel Rear Admiral Joined: 30 June 2023 Online Status: Offline Posts: 3266	Posted: 26 December 2017 at 2:18pm
	Nice work! There is one frame where the pixels don't move, and it feels like the animation resets there.. try to always have most of them moving? It's hard tot race their paths because their size changes.. did you try to make them look like flat sheets, or why does their size change? I'd keep it the same mostly... In the bottom left corner there is one part which lights up outside the rest of the cage, and the light needs a fade out there. also the bottom of the glass needs to be lit much more of the time. now it blinks on and off.. It reads more like a cage than a glass, a glass would also light up on the parts in between the ribs, but with different timing The top of the glass needs to be lit all the time I guess keep it up!
	IP Logged

AirStyle Commander Joined: 13 November 2017 Online Status: Offline Posts: 376	Posted: 26 December 2017 at 3:14pm
	Thanks for the input! Okay so one thing at a time. *Originally posted by Hapiel* There is one frame where the pixels don't move, and it feels like the animation resets there.. try to always have most of them moving? Yeah that mess bugs me so much! I did this in steps. Here they are: https://imgur.com/a/4Os8J The first step was just to get the pixels moving. When that looked good I moved to the next steps, which was lightmasses, and then glass rib refraction. it wasn't until that LAST...STEP...that it started looking wrong. Ugh!!! I tried to see If I could slow down the change by just copying a few frames and see it that would work (without having to fix all that dang light bloom again), but that didn't work. I might be able to do something. *Originally posted by Hapiel* It's hard to trace their paths because their size changes.. did you try to make them look like flat sheets[...] Well, they ARE pixels...I guess I could have given them depth, but I honestly didn't have a problem with their flatness. Does it really look bad? *Originally posted by Hapiel* [...]or why does their size change? I'd keep it the same mostly... The point in that choice was to make the pixels appear to move around in a 3D space instead of a 2D space. Since they move further to the back of the jar, they should get smaller by comparison, as should their light blooms. Keeping them the same size would have made them more confusing. As for tracing their paths: I'm sorry. Not sure what I could do except start over. While making their paths, I was trying to make sure that they only exchanged places, in an effort to not leave dark spots in the glass. That made their paths run close together at times. Plus, I'm thinking the light blooms aid in their confusion, in addition to me making them disappear behind the front ribs for refraction. *Originally posted by Hapiel* In the bottom left corner there is one part which lights up outside the rest of the cage, and the light needs a fade out there. Also the bottom of the glass needs to be lit much more of the time. now it blinks on and off... It reads more like a cage than a glass, a glass would also light up on the parts in between the ribs, but with different timing. Duly noted. I was thinking the same thing. I'm really hoping your refraction tip will help on that legibility. Different timing...Hmm... *Originally posted by Hapiel* The top of the glass needs to be lit all the time I guess. Your "I guess" says it all. I was thinking about the same thing when choosing what to do with the top of the jar. Technically none of the light reaches high enough to light it, but it looks weird just sitting there, So "I guess" I can do it, but I'm not sure. Thanks for the critique. I really appreciate this. By the way, is there a problem with the forum? Every time I tried to use an image or a link, it either has an error occur, or the link gets remove when I submit the post.
	IP Logged

AirStyle Commander Joined: 13 November 2017 Online Status: Offline Posts: 376	Posted: 11 January 2018 at 11:23pm
	Finally back. Sorry, I dipped out to work on something else, but got some breather room to make a quit edit for the pixels. In terms of the motion of the pixels, how does this look?
	IP Logged

Hapiel Rear Admiral Joined: 30 June 2023 Online Status: Offline Posts: 3266	Posted: 12 January 2018 at 7:57am
	The top left one seems to blink a bit, the one below it has strange moments where it seems to grow and shrink repeatedly really fast. Bottom right seems to have a point where it stops moving at the bottom left corner of it's curve. middle right has a very big jump when it's tiny. Top right also has a big jump downwards while growing. Those are the things that stand out to me. I best like the bottom left one, which seems smooth alround. But smooth doesn't have to be good, if you want them to jitter that's alright of course!
	IP Logged

AirStyle Commander Joined: 13 November 2017 Online Status: Offline Posts: 376	Posted: 12 January 2018 at 11:54am
	Keep in mind that these pixels have already been treated with refraction, so they may not all keep their usual square appearance. Maybe this will make it look better, at least in terms of the jittering: Now, for the top right and its neighbor below: eh...I don't know. I was kind of OK with how they fluttered around. I figured that if I made them all fly super smooth, it wouldn't look as..."authentic"? (If this concept even has a degree of authenticity, what with being pixels buzzing around in a jar, and all). So I was fine with mixing it up a little. I guess I'll fix them though. Thanks for the further input. I really want to get this ironed out before I do those lightmasses. Those things are a pain to redo, but with how I've set the file up this time, it will be a lot easier to fix them.
	IP Logged

Hapiel Rear Admiral Joined: 30 June 2023 Online Status: Offline Posts: 3266	Posted: 12 January 2018 at 12:28pm
	Yes, that does fix the jittering! Did you change any of the patterns, or just overlay the cage? Only the middle right still stands out now with its jump. Good job on motivating yourself to redo it, only once you've done the whole thing you learn how to actually do it....
	IP Logged

AirStyle Commander Joined: 13 November 2017 Online Status: Offline Posts: 376	Posted: 12 January 2018 at 12:40pm
	I changed absolutely nothing! All I did was add that cage! :) I knew that would fix it. Good. I only need to fix the middle right one, then. Great! But honestly, I'm still a little torn, but on a different part of it. I told you before how it's supposed to be a ribbed jar, instead of a cage, but I'm not sure how I can do that now. I looked up some images for lights in a bottle, and I found this one: Then I remembered how you said that the glass should have some diffuse lighting, and that delay of the same should give off the illusion of refraction. However, I'm not sure how I should go about it. I'll try a couple of things, and see what it is that I can do to simulate what I have in mind. Also, you see an this reflection in the jar? Maybe I should something like that? But then, I'm sure, with this small of the picture, that would make the paths even harder to discern, not to mention all the calculations that would have to go into it. lol.
	IP Logged

Hapiel Rear Admiral Joined: 30 June 2023 Online Status: Offline Posts: 3266	Posted: 12 January 2018 at 12:52pm
	good ref pic! Ribbed it's gonna be even harder! Oh and btw don't take my word for it about the jitter, maybe get some quick feedback somewhere else too (WIP forum is slow, I know... maybe check in the PJ discord real quick?) You don't need to do calculations and stuff if you understand how it feels, and then trick our brains by recreating that feel... We're not going to recalculate your light trajectories anyway.... However, you did choose a really hard subject, especially to animate! Reminds me of this scene of Roger Rabbit , famous among animators
	IP Logged

AirStyle Commander Joined: 13 November 2017 Online Status: Offline Posts: 376	Posted: 12 January 2018 at 1:58pm
	I actually never watched that movie, and I really should. So based on the first comment, I assume you're talking about the lighting change on Roger Rabbit? Then that's really cool. As for the calculations, I was thinking that once I've done calculation enough, then I would have the feel naturally afterwards. However, I don't do well without plans, and I tend to just float, and eventually not fix anything. I've learned that about myself. I'll try not to get stuck, though; I get what you mean. Don't overthink: another problem I have. "PJ Discord"? That's a thing? All I knew about was the skype one, and since then, I've been using the Pixel Dailies Discord y'all posted on PJ one day. You'll have to send me the link on that one. But thanks for the input so far.
	IP Logged

Hapiel Rear Admiral Joined: 30 June 2023 Online Status: Offline Posts: 3266	Posted: 12 January 2018 at 3:54pm
	Yeah, I meant the insane lighting they did on the animation, to show off that hey were willing to go the extra mile. As for the discord, it's the same people as were in the skype group, but discord turned out to be fancier :)
	IP Logged

AirStyle Commander Joined: 13 November 2017 Online Status: Offline Posts: 376	Posted: 12 January 2018 at 5:49pm
	Cool. Thanks.
	IP Logged