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goliberalart
Midshipman ![]() Joined: 17 December 2019 Online Status: Offline Posts: 25 |
![]() ![]() ![]() Posted: 20 December 2019 at 11:35am |
![]() Pixel Joint Community: We've been working on a new pixel art web comic called Liberal Art, where we crowdsource stories about college life from user submissions and render them in 8 bits of glory. We've been improving our pixel art skills each week based heavily on the techniques and comments we've picked up from this forum. We wanted to submit our entire body of work to date for your feedback on all aspects of our work, so we can continue to benefit from the wisdom here. Our website is http://goliberalart.com/ -- thanks in advance for your feedback! |
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goliberalart
Midshipman ![]() Joined: 17 December 2019 Online Status: Offline Posts: 25 |
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Our latest release for your convenience:
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Greycloak
Midshipman ![]() ![]() Joined: 12 May 2025 Online Status: Offline Posts: 59 |
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One thing that really sticks out to me is the dialogue portrait. The face is highly realistic (almost like a low-resolution picture), while the hair does not look nearly as realistic, as if they were created by different artists. It might be better to make it more uniform-looking. Another thing is on the last slide, I think the girl with brown hair is missing part of her head/hair. This kind of makes it look like the blonde girl is eating her head, which I'm not certain is the intention....
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goliberalart
Midshipman ![]() Joined: 17 December 2019 Online Status: Offline Posts: 25 |
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Thanks for the feedback @Greycloak!
Now that you mention it, I agree with your point on the portraits. I'd been trying to reference the convention from retro video games, where they mixed high-rez portraits and low-rez sprites in this fashion, but lately I've been using larger "sprites", so it doesn't make any sense and indeed looks visually distracting. Not doing portraits will also save me a ton of time so this is ideal ![]() LOL at the hair eating -- not yet good enough at art yet to make it look like the hair is getting flattened. Will just make sure the characters avoid PDA in the future. |
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NancyGold
Commander ![]() ![]() Joined: 27 October 2021 Online Status: Offline Posts: 526 |
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1. The dialogue window is too dark, compared to the viewport. If you took Final Fantasy as reference, then these games have darker ingame graphics too. 2. The trees have different perspective and style. As if you ripped the out of some game. 3. Background is rather blurry, even for non-pixelart graphics. I.e. tree tops blend with the wall. I think adding shadows would help defining objects. .
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goliberalart
Midshipman ![]() Joined: 17 December 2019 Online Status: Offline Posts: 25 |
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@snv Amazing feedback, thanks for taking the time, I would never have noticed these without your thoughts.
I recently moved to the Dawnbringer 32 palette (where we first found this forum: http://pixeljoint.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=16247), but many of the older assets (like the building) aren't yet converted to this. We also do rip a lot of video game assets as shortcuts to help keep to a schedule of 1-2 per week, though we're getting better at moving to all original content -- the perspective issue is a really good point. This is definitely brighter than usual, wanted a bright white snowscape for the Christmas special -- it will be interesting to see if our next batch of releases rate better on this front. Shadows are a really good idea, something I've definitely neglected too much. Again, thanks for the feedback, very helpful! |
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Greycloak
Midshipman ![]() ![]() Joined: 12 May 2025 Online Status: Offline Posts: 59 |
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A few other things to consider:
And this last bit is just one of my personal pet peeves, and that is when there are "pixels" of differing sizes. This is really apparent in the first zoom-in shot, where the black border of the blonde woman is clearly made up of actual pixels, while her eyes, lips, nose, and earrings are blocks of 2x2 pixels. The brunette has a similar thing going on within that shot. I believe it would look better if the pixel size was kept consistent.
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goliberalart
Midshipman ![]() Joined: 17 December 2019 Online Status: Offline Posts: 25 |
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Thanks @Greycloak -- this forum has been such a great source of feedback, love the attention to detail of pixel art enthusiasts. Most of your feedback got incorporated into the most recent release.. lightened the shadow color on the text, added a drop shadow to the dialogue boxes, and included dialogue pointers.
Also, definitely feel your peeve about pixels of different sizes, was just being lazy and didn't think anybody would look close enough to notice :D -- this time added some more definition to lips, noses, eyebrows, and ears at higher resolution this time around. Unfortunately, I can't find an arrangement for eyes that look better than the large blocks of 2x2 -- will keep playing with it for next week to try and find something that works. Along these lines, my personal bugbear is that I need to render the text at twice the resolution of the art, otherwise it's unreadable. At any rate, here's the most recent release #21: "Enemy Tribes" -- would love further more feedback. Is it possible to include a "max width" tag for this forum so it shows up within one screen? ![]() |
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NancyGold
Commander ![]() ![]() Joined: 27 October 2021 Online Status: Offline Posts: 526 |
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1. Still a lot of pillow shading and banding going on. 2. Your font doesn't match the pixel grid. 3. That carpet is just painful to look at. Pixelart is not about noisy pixels but about their absence. As Exupery said "Perfection is achieved, not when there is nothing more to add, but when there is nothing left to take away." Usually you can save yourself time by just not adding the meaningless noise. First rule of pixelart: if you draw noise, it will look like noise. Same with these pictures on the wall. They are really noisy and look more detailed than your characters, stealing attention. 4. Add some shadows. They are easy to draw and really improve overall look. 5. You don't have to upscale art, since PJ forum uspcales small pictures when you click on them (shift-clicking downscales them back). ![]() |
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goliberalart
Midshipman ![]() Joined: 17 December 2019 Online Status: Offline Posts: 25 |
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Incredible feedback @snv, thank you!
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Greycloak
Midshipman ![]() ![]() Joined: 12 May 2025 Online Status: Offline Posts: 59 |
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Hmm, when I said to change the shadow on the text, I actually meant the size of the shadow, not the brightness (though not being as dark helps also). I would make the shadow on the font about 2 pixels thinner than it is right now (it's currently about 4 pixels at the bottom). Also, I think the orange color for the dialogue pointer lines stands out a bit too much. Maybe if you changed them to match the border of the dialogue box it might fit a bit better. e.g. ![]() Otherwise, I'd say it's looking better. Good to see that you're implementing changes.
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goliberalart
Midshipman ![]() Joined: 17 December 2019 Online Status: Offline Posts: 25 |
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Friends, wanted to send along the most recent release, Liberal Art 22: Pro Bono
I've managed to incorporate all the feedback from @snv and @Greycloak ![]() * Text shadow and dialogue pointers * Fixed up shadows and gave the characters a new carpet * Link is to the raw unscaled image file * Softened some of the background posters Unfortunately, I still cannot find a font that renders legibly at 6 points, which means the text is still 2x the resolution of the rest of the artwork. I've tried every font I've been able to find recommended on this forum and none have such resolution, so I'm still at a bit of a loss here. To my untrained eye, this is the last major hurdle. Anyhow, looking forward to continued critique and thoughts. (Story ideas too, all are crowdsourced so far, although we have a bit of a backlog at the moment): ![]() |
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NancyGold
Commander ![]() ![]() Joined: 27 October 2021 Online Status: Offline Posts: 526 |
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Yeah. Now it can pass for some early Amiga game. Still watch for the anatomy mistakes. The guy has long arms and small palms. Human hand takes half of the face - in fact people can cover their faces with two hands. While long arms would be more suitable for some horror game. They are an overused trope. ![]() |
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goliberalart
Midshipman ![]() Joined: 17 December 2019 Online Status: Offline Posts: 25 |
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LOL, good catch!
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Greycloak
Midshipman ![]() ![]() Joined: 12 May 2025 Online Status: Offline Posts: 59 |
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Adding on to the anatomy thing, I think their necks look a little too long which throws me off. I would personally scale down their necks by a pixel or two. Also, I would change where their eyes are looking between slides (when appropriate). The eyes are one of the main ways of non-verbal communication, so for example when she's commenting about something in the magazine, I would also expect her eyes to be focused on the magazine.
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goliberalart
Midshipman ![]() Joined: 17 December 2019 Online Status: Offline Posts: 25 |
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Hot off the presses! Here's the newest drop.
Paid a lot of extra attention to shadows, necks, arms, hand size... didn't nail them all but generally looking heaps better. Looking forward to getting roasted! ![]() |
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goliberalart
Midshipman ![]() Joined: 17 December 2019 Online Status: Offline Posts: 25 |
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Team, a new release for your roasting pleasure. Tried a few new techniques, such as some lighting, extreme zooms, and text rendered at size... some may not have quite worked, but a lot of fun to work on still.
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Greycloak
Midshipman ![]() ![]() Joined: 12 May 2025 Online Status: Offline Posts: 59 |
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I'd say the main thing is that the zoomed and rotated phone looks really out of place and the text has warped far too much...when showing texts on a phone, I'd probably stick with regular slides showing the bubbles of text.
An anticipatory slide that shows the character picking up the phone before it shows the phone would also help the scene flow better. |
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NancyGold
Commander ![]() ![]() Joined: 27 October 2021 Online Status: Offline Posts: 526 |
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The proportions are broken. On the first panel the character's head looks being 1/2 of the bed's back, while on the second the bed's back is just 1/2 of the whole character. On the same second panel the table looks moved from the character towards the camera, suggesting that the viewer sits on that table. And then on the third panel table is again moved closer, judging by lamp's side. Who is moving the table? The clock also got stolen.
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goliberalart
Midshipman ![]() Joined: 17 December 2019 Online Status: Offline Posts: 25 |
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True all around! Also had thought about the anticipatory slide @Greycloak, but ran out of time and was wondering if we'd get a callout
![]() Very good feedback on the perspective @snv -- a first draft had the top of the alarm clock peeking out, to try to keep perspective consistent, but erased it thinking it was distracting... live and learn! |
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goliberalart
Midshipman ![]() Joined: 17 December 2019 Online Status: Offline Posts: 25 |
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Friends: the release #25: ("Impervious") has dropped and awaits your expert commentary. As usual it's not "ready" so much as it is "done." A few questions are below the image (in hopes you can prepare your own thoughts before the questions bias you in any direction). Thanks in advance as always!
![]() http://goliberalart.com/c/25
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aeveis
Midshipman ![]() ![]() Joined: 07 April 2021 Online Status: Offline Posts: 82 |
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Hello, some critique just reading this latest comic:
First from the comic side: - The joke I think is set up ok, but there is a bit of a logical leap from "not getting enough sleep" to "getting bad grades" though which makes the punchline not as strong. - I think a simple background works better because it is a comic. The focus is on the characters, not on the background. You wouldn't want the background to distract from the joke or the characters (in this case I feel). - The center effect of the girl using the star I think disrupts the flow of reading. The eye unintentionally goes to the middle even though the event doesn't happen until after the 2nd panel. I think in terms of the joke, my thinking is using the star, the girl will no longer be tired, allowing her to do well on the test. So the bad grades comment doesn't make as much sense to me, though it works if you just read the last two panels. Pixel Art wise: - The posters are a nice touch to signify movement but would be nice if they were cleaned a bit. There's a bunch of stray pixels and various colors that makes it feel like it was an image that was just sized down. - It'd be nice if the text was more centered on the text boxes, sometimes theres more spacing on top, like in the first two panels. - The dithering on the rainbow effect might work better if the pattern is more consistent. Here are some more details about dithering - I think the character art could use work. If there is a better understanding of anatomy and expressions, the comic would read better and hit better. This doesn't mean it has to be realistic or highly detailed, but style is informed by art foundation. Here is a quick messy edit of the sprite keeping mostly same proportions and same colors: ![]() hope that is helpful! |
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goliberalart
Midshipman ![]() Joined: 17 December 2019 Online Status: Offline Posts: 25 |
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Very helpful, thanks @aeveis!
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goliberalart
Midshipman ![]() Joined: 17 December 2019 Online Status: Offline Posts: 25 |
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Hot off the presses, a new release for your informed critique. I must say, I've tried seeking feedback many places and this community has been the absolute best, so thank you very much!
![]() http://goliberalart.com/c/26 |
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NancyGold
Commander ![]() ![]() Joined: 27 October 2021 Online Status: Offline Posts: 526 |
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That is a lot of dithering on the door for no good reason!
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Greycloak
Midshipman ![]() ![]() Joined: 12 May 2025 Online Status: Offline Posts: 59 |
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For this latest one I mostly only have critique on the overall design. There is a really large logical gap between the first slide and the second slide, and I don't really understand what's happening.
Is the lady supposed to be reporting the barista for asking about if she's having fun? If so, I think more than a "Hey!" is necessary to show that. Otherwise it just seems like a very out-of-place greeting being said in response to a question. I at first thought that maybe her "Hey!" was supposed to be the first line, and in that case it should be higher in position than the other dialogue box, so that we read it first. A last minor point is that in the last slide, the guy isn't actually answering the original question but is instead explaining his imagination. It would read better if he started with "Yes I can, it would feel...(explanation)" That's about it. And I do agree that the dithering on the door looks very out-of-place in contrast to the rest of the art. |
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goliberalart
Midshipman ![]() Joined: 17 December 2019 Online Status: Offline Posts: 25 |
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Agreed with these points, thanks for sharing. I'm getting very encouraged that the critiques are moving from the art to the writing -- art does not come very naturally, so it's great to be getting past at least the beginner mistakes.
New food to feast on: ![]() http://goliberalart.com/c/27 |
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goliberalart
Midshipman ![]() Joined: 17 December 2019 Online Status: Offline Posts: 25 |
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goliberalart
Midshipman ![]() Joined: 17 December 2019 Online Status: Offline Posts: 25 |
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goliberalart
Midshipman ![]() Joined: 17 December 2019 Online Status: Offline Posts: 25 |
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Newest "How Masks Work":
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goliberalart
Midshipman ![]() Joined: 17 December 2019 Online Status: Offline Posts: 25 |
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Friends, will continue posting these here until I hear otherwise. Here's the latest:
Liberal Art #32: #MeatEww ![]() |
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NancyGold
Commander ![]() ![]() Joined: 27 October 2021 Online Status: Offline Posts: 526 |
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Characters are a bit flat. If that is your stylistic choice, then I suggest getting rid of the excessive shades. Like on that "Go Fish" guy's head (which currently has some crazy band shading). The "hi miranda" girl has really nonsensical hair texturing. Generally I suggest making faces larger and necks smaller. You're making a comix, so large heads will leave you more space for facial expressions, while necks are not that important to convey anything, beside realistic proportions, which your comic already lacks. In some rare cases, like Beavis & Butthead, necks were indeed used to convey comical qualities of the characters. On the other hand, South Park characters have no necks at all. Not even separate feet. The Simpsons characters have really short necks merging directly into heads and almost no lower jaw - their size is just enough to put some necklace and other decorative items. Here I made hair and head shading corrections to the mentioned characters. ![]() |
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goliberalart
Midshipman ![]() Joined: 17 December 2019 Online Status: Offline Posts: 25 |
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Thanks a ton!
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goliberalart
Midshipman ![]() Joined: 17 December 2019 Online Status: Offline Posts: 25 |
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@snv I feel like we need some way to reward you (and @greycloak, et al) who have been so helpful in improving this. All I can think of off the top of my head is a collaboration on a future release. Interested?
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NancyGold
Commander ![]() ![]() Joined: 27 October 2021 Online Status: Offline Posts: 526 |
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Originally posted by goliberalart @snv I feel like we need some way to reward you (and @greycloak, et al) who have been so helpful in improving this. All I can think of off the top of my head is a collaboration on a future release. Interested? I'm not really an artist. I'm a programmer working on an XCOM inspired video game: https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,6791.0.html But if you ever need a Haskell or a Lisp programmer, I may help with something :D |
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goliberalart
Midshipman ![]() Joined: 17 December 2019 Online Status: Offline Posts: 25 |
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@snv This looks incredible! Would love to help out... I'm mostly a PHP/Python person on the coding front so may not be a big help there. But we could work together to get you some exposure for your game -- I'm envisioning a guest comic where you provide the concept, and we work together to iterate towards artwork that's good, and we use the opportunity to plug your game.
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goliberalart
Midshipman ![]() Joined: 17 December 2019 Online Status: Offline Posts: 25 |
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A pair of new comics, one short-form that could be easier to churn out more rapidly, plus one long-form that's a bit more interesting visually:
33: "Getting Exercise" ![]() 34: "Lockdown Order" ![]() |
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goliberalart
Midshipman ![]() Joined: 17 December 2019 Online Status: Offline Posts: 25 |
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NancyGold
Commander ![]() ![]() Joined: 27 October 2021 Online Status: Offline Posts: 526 |
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Originally posted by goliberalart @snv This looks incredible! Would love to help out... I'm mostly a PHP/Python person on the coding front so may not be a big help there. But we could work together to get you some exposure for your game -- I'm envisioning a guest comic where you provide the concept, and we work together to iterate towards artwork that's good, and we use the opportunity to plug your game. Thanks! But well, the game is not really about real world or American social politics. In fact, there is absolutely no story-line, beside the basic conflict "a king of an island kingdom has deceased and now there is a succession war". It does have a basic fantasy setting, but that is like all to it. Even the world is auto-generated. It is a proof of concept project for a programming language. So there is nothing to make comix out. While my game is more focused on autistic stuff like toy gas dynamics, I think games should be less about stories, but instead about the core gameplay elements. Game designers speak in the language of systems - they show, instead of telling. I.e. if you want to expose some social problem with a video game, you don't directly write a script "hey folks there is a problem!!!", you create a system which has such problem and place player inside of it. Ideally without any words. You can probably make one even in PHP with a bit of JavaScript. In some cases gameplay could be exploited for some subtle narrative or for comic purposes, like when you make typical jRPG but with real world characters. Then there was that Silent Hill mod for the original Tomb Raider, and it had unexpected comical effect, since Lara Croft is a strong protagonist with a large set of moves, while Silent Hill games by their narrative design had weak protagonists. |
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goliberalart
Midshipman ![]() Joined: 17 December 2019 Online Status: Offline Posts: 25 |
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Very much like your thoughts on the concept of "show not tell"... will definitely think more about that.
Here's a pair of new releases: "Parties Left Unpartied" and "Deth and Disglot" ![]() ![]() |
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