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So-lou
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Quote So-lou Replybullet Posted: 14 July 2005 at 8:30pm

Dude, my idea was the bench thing. When I say a yearbook picture I don't mean individual profiles like yearbook photos are in America, I meant bench rows put together to look like a class photo like you get here in Australia. We never got individual photos with a quote underneath like in the us. XD

 

'Any ideas/complaints? Is so-lou's variation better? I think hers allows for less creativity and interaction, but is much clearer in terms of who did which person.

Then again, my goal was for one big finished peice, not many little peices.'

 

My idea wasn't 'many little pieces'. I specifically said to have a bench template and then we put them together at the end to have one big piece. And I'm pretty sure that's damned creative and leaves a lot of room for interaction. You could even plan with another person to have your arm around them or something. 'hacked' your idea? Please.

 

If this were to be organized, how big should the bench seats be? I was thinking something around height- 200 width- 150 - this would leave a lot of room for creativity. :D

 

Also, when it's put together in rows of benches, there could be a code that when you hover over someones head the WHOLE of them appears, that way people can't complain their legs are covered up and that 'was like the best part of my piece' because it would show up with a hover-over.  It'd be kind of like the joint apartment thing.

 

Example shots of what I mean:

 

this but not stairs, benches: http://www.lancs.ac.uk/depts/physics/pictures/dept/spc3hr.gi f

http://www-benning.army.mil/rtb/ranger/photo/13-87.jpg

 

Anybody wanna start organizing this with me?

 

-So-lou
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Quote Demon Replybullet Posted: 14 July 2005 at 8:56pm
I'd be interested in help you out so-lou.
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Quote Garage Inc. Replybullet Posted: 14 July 2005 at 9:07pm

So-Lou, question.

Don't know if you actually know this person, but what is she looking at, haha?

Also, I would be interested in helping.

For every second spent wondering if you can do something, you could spend 2 seconds doing it.
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Quote 1ucas Replybullet Posted: 14 July 2005 at 9:29pm
Yeah, that project sounds fun. Go for it, people :)
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So-lou
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Quote So-lou Replybullet Posted: 14 July 2005 at 9:40pm

Okay well, lucas and I will get started on a template and I'll ask sedge about coding since he's like THE CODING MASTAH.  Should I make a seperate thread for it for questions/suggestions etc. ?

 

-So-lou
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Quote sedgemonkey Replybullet Posted: 14 July 2005 at 9:44pm

A new thread would most certainly be in order.  Get the template worked out and I'll code the site. 

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Quote 1ucas Replybullet Posted: 14 July 2005 at 9:48pm
Not yet. Whenever we have everything set up we start a new thread.

Meanwhile, you guys give suggestions and comments here :)
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Quote So-lou Replybullet Posted: 14 July 2005 at 9:59pm

Coooool as. We're working on the template now. See?

 

Tzbok: but you're the ex-doller, so you pick the skin colors :D
Tzbok: hold on, lemme see some cool size
SophieSoLou: XD noooo nothing like skin colours
SophieSoLou: I'm not making BASES for PEOPLE
SophieSoLou: I'm only making the bench
SophieSoLou: remember that drinking at the bar project someone started?
Tzbok: yeah
SophieSoLou: it'll be like that - you have to draw yourself
Tzbok: but a template would be nice to keep a proportion
Tzbok: or wait
SophieSoLou: nah we're going to see an array of big heads, small heads, huge bodies, skinny, tentacle legs etc.
Tzbok: haha
SophieSoLou: if everyone is the same size and sh*t that's boring
Tzbok: true
SophieSoLou: I'm going to make it that if you wanna be known as a half fox half person person, do it
Tzbok: haha
SophieSoLou: or if you wanna be a huge blue octopus do it ;-) (gas13)
Tzbok: awesome
Tzbok: so the bench
Tzbok: what would be the standard person size, just for an idea?
Tzbok: 150x200?
SophieSoLou: yeah I was thinking that'
Tzbok: yeah just read it
SophieSoLou: that way this could be really fun to look at in the end
Tzbok: yess :D
SophieSoLou: it'll be fun to see all these individual styles come together in one big pixelly orgy of colour, dithering, AA and FUNKYNESS
SophieSoLou: XD

 

-So-lou
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Quote sedgemonkey Replybullet Posted: 14 July 2005 at 10:02pm

Well, whenever y'all are ready let me know and I'll code it for ya.

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Quote Saboteur Replybullet Posted: 14 July 2005 at 11:31pm

Alright, So-Lou, I misunderstood. It turns out we have almost the exact same idea, which is awesome. I apologise for sounding angry, 'twasn't my intention, I was just afraid that my idea would get tossed and you'd take leadership on my first decent collab idea.

And am I still part of this? I'm half-suspicious that I'm being left out. And you HAVE bullied me out of the leadership position.

"Anybody wanna start organizing this with me?"

Looking back, I'm seeing that we have the EXACT same idea, just I articulate my ideas horribly. And I refuse to lose, so I'm gonna argue with you lots because I still think you took what was essentially my idea and ran with it ;)

Man, I really have to slow down and figure out what I wanna say. here goes.

I'm not evil, I'm not accusing you of being an idea thief, and I'm not enraged because you've shown an interest.

We share the exact same ideas (almost), just noone understood them 'cause I write like crap. Fear the quotes.

Me-"30+ people (potentially) that want to put themselves in the shot."

You-"like a class photo" (group photo)

You-"there could be a code that when you hover over someones head the WHOLE of them appears

Me-"One feature I'd love to add is a mini-bio and a place to show the artist's whole self" and "That would be when you put the mouse over the person" (Mouse-over person info and whole-person shot)

See? you obviously stated it more clearly, but I said essentially the same things.

Are you thinking that 150 by 200 would be one person? or how many people would fit on that one bench? Also, did my template-thingy get trashed? I'm so confused

Man, I hope at least some of that made sense. Sorry again for misunderstanding and sounding like an ass.



Edited by Saboteur
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Quote pixelblink Replybullet Posted: 15 July 2005 at 12:02am
play nice kids. Don't make me smack you both
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Quote Monstara Replybullet Posted: 15 July 2005 at 12:40am
Nevermind that,

  1. That's just an idea: why not have 'sepia' photos?
  2. I can help coding (sedge I think we can use pure CSS, no javascript necessary)
So, how many artists do you reckon for this project?
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Quote sedgemonkey Replybullet Posted: 15 July 2005 at 12:54am

Why not just work together on it if you have the same idea.  There's no ownership of these projects once they get going anyway. It's supposed to be about collaboration ya lousy bums.

You can do all the frontend scripting if you like Monstara, but I have to do all the backend scripting to hook it into db so just let me know when you are ready.

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Quote Saboteur Replybullet Posted: 15 July 2005 at 12:59am

I doubt that we'll limit how many people are going to be in it. it would be neat if it were never really finished, and newcomers were given a chance to add themselves to the picture, making it a neverending photo.

Don't mind me, I'm just an angsty child with pride issues.

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Quote Monstara Replybullet Posted: 15 July 2005 at 1:12am
Saboteur: sure, I agree, but if there is going to be a fixed background, then...
On the other hand, we can make a dynamically resizable background
Oh, sedge, I didn't realize you were gonna put those in a DB.
Well I can do whatever. You doing this in ASP, though? Coz I prefer writing PHP, but in the end I might just write the stylesheets, etc.
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So-lou
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Quote So-lou Replybullet Posted: 15 July 2005 at 1:34am

I had an idea of a school photo-esque pixel collab back when I had a website called 'Horror High', a website for doll-makers who liked horror movies. That was in 2003. Um, whatever. Take the idea, I suddenly don't feel like working with other people. I'll completely butt out. And I accept your apology that you sounded like an ASS.

 

-So-lou
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Quote Demon Replybullet Posted: 15 July 2005 at 1:34am
sedge: You probly wont need it, but I could help with the ASP coding.
"At least we killed some boredom..." - Death Note.
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Quote sedgemonkey Replybullet Posted: 15 July 2005 at 10:58am

Saboteur:  I understand that you had an idea and wanted to execute it, but if you want to have an open collaboration you have to COLLABORATE.   

Let me clarify that a little... if you want to collab with specific individuals or if you have a template that you want to have control of  that's totally cool and you can certainly do that in a new thread with it all worked out, but if you post in this thread it's assumed that it's an OPEN collaboration. You have to allow for some give and take with other people. Saying "i thought of it first" or "this idea is like mine" is just going to create friction. 

So-lou: No need to just drop it. I think it would be a great project and you had some good ideas for the project.  I think Saboteur just wants to stay involved with it and didn't know how to express it properly.

REGARDING CODING
If you guys want to offer up frontend scripting (HTML/CSS/JavaScript) that's cool with me. Just send what you have in an email for various projects. I do appreciate all the offers to help with server scripting, but it's really easy for me to do (I do it for a living) and I'm not going to allow anybody that kind of access to the server anyway so it's a moot point. 

Let me clarify why hooking these projects into a database is important...

  • Hands off administration. Nobody has to "work" to add/edit/delete pieces. The project can go on forever without any maintenance.  What happens with a lot of these projects is that once a single person is sick of coordinating it the project is over.
  • The artists can maintain their own work and profiles through one interface -- the PJ gallery site. It's just wasted energy to write the same thing over and over again.
  • Everyone's artwork for the different collabs can be found in their own galleries... if you like someone's "The Joint" piece you can click on their name and see their "Wees" and their "Lil Dudes" in a single place.
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Quote Ensellitis Replybullet Posted: 15 July 2005 at 5:34pm
Just an idea for the collab page for this...  If it is going to be open ended so that new members can add to it, maybe have it cascade, maybe a tiled background so it can be scrolled maybe?  I don't know if I made myself clear enough or not...  It was just an idea...
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Quote sedgemonkey Replybullet Posted: 15 July 2005 at 7:15pm

Ensellitis... I was thiking we would have repeating "sections" in the middle with end caps on the left and right.

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Quote Ensellitis Replybullet Posted: 15 July 2005 at 7:45pm
That's what I was talking about, you genius, you  
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Quote Saboteur Replybullet Posted: 16 July 2005 at 8:51pm

So-Lou come baaaack! I'm sorry!

Allrighty, sorry guys, I made So-Lou run away.

I think this would go well as a collab from the very begining, so I'm gonna open this up to everyone. Right now, we've got the basic building layout, the roof as a spot for people, and a ledge as a spot for people. The job of whomever wants to is to create something creative for people to sit/stand/lounge on. It would be bonus-mark worthy if you were to keep with the boxy theme (pixels, if you really didn't know :P ) Also, if someone could add an iso box or two to the wall (the light grey ones are painted on).

Steps to go yet.

- room enough for the 30ish people that want to put themselves in. (is this a fair estimate?) Specifically the ground needs some accessories to sit or lounge upon.

- More texture / decoration for the pixeljoint building.

- Colour selection and shading.

Call it if you want to add something, and if someone calls something, please wait for them to finish before starting your addition. We don't want overlap . For speed's sake, you have twelve hours from when you make your post to submit your submission. So one person can't do it all.

My main fears are:

A) We won't get enough space for all the people. This may call for an enlargement of the building. Even if we do get enough for now, there will always be newcomers, so we should aim for an expandable building. Something I neglected to do, unfortunately.

B) since the idea has been expanded much, it could take too long to get anything nailed down, and people might lose interest before it's truly finished.

Also, we still need a difinitive size for the people. In my brain, people would put themselves in by taking whichever part they want to be on, making their graphic, then submitting it alone. If we were to all just add ourselves straight onto the background, we'd have a hard time expanding the building for newcomers, methinks.

Anyone have any new and exciting ideas? I promise not to yell at you for them, I've learned my lesson.



Edited by Saboteur
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Quote Saboteur Replybullet Posted: 16 July 2005 at 11:26pm

No takers? I'll finish it on my own tomorrow, then. Hmm, some serious revamping is in order . And now we all get stuck with pink and flowery walls, cause I feel like being evil!



Edited by Saboteur
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Quote Ensellitis Replybullet Posted: 17 July 2005 at 9:26pm
Saboteur: Sedgemonkey said, "I was thiking we would have repeating "sections" in the middle with end caps on the left and right."

That would be the best way to go, that way if it gets to the point of 200 people doing it, there is no worry about whether or not if they can all fit...

So perhaps what needs to be done is something like, maybe in an outside setting, have several scenes that can be placed together.  I don't like the idea of a static background, because then when one fills up, not only does another one need to be made, but then the newcomers will be seperated from everyone else. Which, in my opinion, ruins the whole concept.

As for adding people, it should be done via CSS.  Using containers with absolute positioning and a little z-index action.  Other wise, you have to add them in manually, and that is something I am sure no one would want to do everytime there is a new submission.  Also doing this will cause us to have to stick with one background, which would really suck, because then if you wanted to have the backgrounds dynamically change say on a different season, or occasion you just couldn't do it easily.

I think a thread needs to be started for this subject, it is filling up the suggest thread, which should be saved more more collab ideas, and it needs to be discussed more.  You should be waiting until more input is recieved before you just jump in and start making it.  Since this would basically involve the entire community and will be designed to be ongoing.  We haven't fully decided alot of things with this; including the setting, the size, whether it is ISO or non-ISO, and so on.
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Quote Saboteur Replybullet Posted: 17 July 2005 at 11:40pm

Much true.

I have little to no knowledge about programming, so your whole CSS thing sounds far more exciting than manual input. Or whatever I was thinking.

Besides you, not much input has been given, other than "yeah, it's a fun idea!". And So-Lou, but... yeah, oops. So I kept making big posts and seeing if anyone would do what you did.

My problem with the tiled background is that it could be boring. My goal for the template was to make a whole bunch of spaces where people could put themselves in whatever pose they felt inclined to put themselves in as. Tiled, I guess you could do that. Actually, I like tiled better. Good thinking . Tiled, end caps with repeatingness... same thing.

And I think it almost has to be non-iso. First off, iso is probably pretty drrn hard to do detailed people in, and second (don't shoot me) Iso seems to be primarily buildings.

And nobody was giving solid input, so I went and made stuff. I'm fully prepared to trash that stuff if public opinion states. Alright! On to the new thread!

"I was minding my own business and walking across a pebbled path, and a Duck started giving me the business."
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Quote Monstara Replybullet Posted: 18 July 2005 at 2:02am
Certainly not ISO! We want a school-like up-front photograph...
I have some ideas for the coding, but I suppose it's too early.
Tiled background is not necessarily boring. and actually we could be using the 'sliding doors' technique from A List Apart, which gives us as much variety as we want - you make a big ass image from which the unnecessary part is 'cut out' and the cap closes it on the side.

A tricky part would be to make the individual photos 'shuffle' so newcomers would not always be on the ends of the 'bench' (or whatever). For z-indexing - in many games the z-index equals -y, so the higher the image, the further behind.

So, I suggest 'sliding doors', you could put a separate header of some sort above the bench just like Saboteur did with the 'Now Showing' plate.
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Quote So-lou Replybullet Posted: 21 July 2005 at 9:14pm

Originally posted by Saboteur

Allrighty, sorry guys, I made So-Lou run away.

WTF...?? That's a weird ass thing to say. Why are people so weird around here? seriously wtf? made me 'run away'? Bizarre.

ANYWAY I have decided I'm starting my idea up and going to start a proper thread once I've got the template and asked a few people to help out with coding. Mine is a pretty different thing to 'saboteurs' idea and I don't know why the f**k he jumped on me in the first place about it when his is hardly similar to mine. So yeah - no worries.

-So-lou
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Quote Saboteur Replybullet Posted: 21 July 2005 at 9:22pm

-nervous twitching-

Yeah, I keep telling people to ignore me. Not many listen.

Do it, I'd love to see your idea.

"I was minding my own business and walking across a pebbled path, and a Duck started giving me the business."
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Quote scribe Replybullet Posted: 23 July 2005 at 10:20pm
Hmms how about a pixel aqurium?
Like, a big fish tank. That goes out these ways ------> (it Scrolls horizontally)

Non isometric... Apart form the tank i suppose...And the template is just a relatively small aprt of it. Meh, that didn't explain too well. Here's a nondetailed version of what it should be like

Hmms and maybe layers? So, like there's the bottom half, then a top half?
_-----------------Lights+Stuff---------------_
-------------------------------------------------

 |..................................................... ..|  Xby X
 |..................Top Tanks......................|

 |..................................................... ..| Xby X
 |...................Bottom Tanks................|
 ___________________________________

The bottom can have stuff like coral, little minature divers (like the figurines that you see in the fish tanks and stuff) Or pirate ships. With those little snake eels that live in fish tanks (that look like poisionious sea snakes black+white ones that live in uout gish tank)

While the top has just fish and stuff, bubbles, maybe fish food, if someone is gonna draw a hand feeding? I dunno. It's an idea...

  XbyX? I dunno, maybe like 5(templates accross)by 1 down.. Then same for the bottom, yet then the templates need dimensions lol...




Edited by scribe
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Quote Amion Replybullet Posted: 26 July 2005 at 3:33pm
I was thinking of something along the lines of the but with a stage instead of a fishtank. Like make a template stage and people can take that and draw a little scene inside of it. Animated or not I think it would look pretty nifty.
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Quote pixelblink Replybullet Posted: 26 July 2005 at 6:34pm
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Quote SplatPixel Replybullet Posted: 29 August 2005 at 3:45pm

i remember a long time ago back at pixelation there was a topic for fighting. members would use one of there own characters and call out someone for a fight. bother member would would take turns in drawing both of the characters fighting. i remember this one really tight fight between Kon and i think Kable. there was no size or color limit, whatever gets the job done. someone could come up with a more organized system for this concept. just and idea...

another cool idea was something that ScubaSteve did back at pixelation. i wish i joined in it a long time ago. members would draw themselves or one of their own characters as a fighter in a game. i wanted to join in because the characters had to be large scale portraits, but i sucked so much back in the day... i think the size was around 140x230, no color limit and i think there was a due date.. when the ran out, ScubaSteve put all the potrtraits together in a mockup of a fake fighting game. it was of the most beautiful things i have ever seen in my life...heh

:update:

wait a second i lied, i did join in that last one, heh. i just found my post in that collab. i thought this thing was lost forever, can't believe i still had it. heres Kon Post too. i wonder what happen to kon and all the other greats...



Edited by SplatPixel
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Quote sedgemonkey Replybullet Posted: 29 August 2005 at 3:53pm
The fighter game thing would definitely be cool.  If someone wants to get the ball rolling I swear I'll make one entry.
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Quote Zoomrix Replybullet Posted: 29 August 2005 at 5:05pm

Originally posted by SplatPixel

i wonder what happen to kon and all the other greats..

Most of the greats are hanging out in the temporary pixelation. I'm surprised you didn't know about it Splat.  Here's the link: http://pixel-arts.org/pixelopolis/index.php

And that would be a sweet challenge about the fighter sprites. I would love to see it develope.

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Quote SplatPixel Replybullet Posted: 29 August 2005 at 5:35pm
Zoomrix - sweet jesus! their alive. lol, can't believe i didn't know either, thanks alot.
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Quote flaber Replybullet Posted: 01 September 2005 at 6:34pm
im game for the fighter challenge.
would be difficult for me since its not my style...
but meh would be good non-the-less
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Quote Skaterboy J Replybullet Posted: 21 October 2005 at 2:07pm
How bout like a pixel grafiti wall, maybe only tools allowed are like a spray can kind of thing? or if not just pixel
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Quote Crash_universE Replybullet Posted: 28 November 2005 at 6:37am
I know I posted already a search for a collaboration that has been moved to the job offerings... anyway .. I'll try to repeat myself :). That's mostly because I see here the com. is really active and of outstanding quality.

I'm planning to make an RTS. I'm a software eng. very skilled in C++. I'm looking for a collaboration world wide, but if this comunity accepts the challenge that could be the case to develop it ! at least a starting test. This would involve scenarios, buildings, special effects, characters with animation sets, and so on. I think everyone could find what suits him/her best and with so many skilled people that would be awesome.

Everything would go up on a site dedicated to the project and the game distributed freely with the goal of creating a comunity around it. That could carry the mark that graphics are of course made by PixelJoint community and everyone working would end up in the credits for future reference. The game would live up with donations and gadgets to pay for hosting and server (for online gaming, a server for the game would be coded). Everyone would get a share if something remains for a pizza on saturday :).

I can grant for my side :) (coding part). That would be beautiful to have a game like this, I love pixel artist graphics. I dunno how, but sometimes I get very sad when looking at crappy 3D graphics on the last coming RTS (be it AoE, DoW, or others..)

Sorry for long post, and sorry for repeating myself. I hope noone would mind me:P thx

One universe.. One Brain..
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Quote Crash_universE Replybullet Posted: 29 November 2005 at 2:44am
After a long sight of the forum , all the topics and so on, I saw sometimes you are looking for a coder, well here I am.

Just to go over my last post.

(and apologize for my english, I beg you all pardon)

Why just not making a game?!?
I mean have you all seen maple story? Sooo nice, many players, and so on.

Well, if you don't like the RTS idea, I'm here to hear of you all what you would like to do! Graphics adventure game, Sport game, RPG game, or what's next.

But think it to be MMO!!!!

Throw in your ideas, the one that all of you like most could be developed. I can offer programming part (even not alone , here at university I've got many colleagues those would like to collaborate).

:D c u

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PandaPlanet
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Quote PandaPlanet Replybullet Posted: 14 December 2005 at 4:28am
A MMO in Pixel Art? You're crazy
But that would be fun, i'd go for a fun sidescroller, they're aint many fun sidescrollers anymore.
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Quote Fugitive Replybullet Posted: 25 December 2005 at 3:25am

How about a chess board and Pieces   not that I know how to play  

Here's a quick board to show what it could look like

Fugitve is playing on his XBox 360
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Quote Goldprobe Replybullet Posted: 25 December 2005 at 12:46pm
I like the idea of a side scroller, i really advanced one. I actually started one already, and have a tileset editor made :o So, it would be a start :P
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Quote miau Replybullet Posted: 25 December 2005 at 12:53pm
Fugitive:
nice idea
but animated pieces would definitely be more fun
they'd need to have like..
two animations for attacking (facing down/facing up)
two animations for being captured (facing down/facing up)
eight animations for moving to adjacent tiles (one for each direction)

..which requires quite some effort, though
using a smaller board may help
I'd even try to turn it into a playable game

lemme know what you think


Edited by miau
...
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Quote Fugitive Replybullet Posted: 25 December 2005 at 2:04pm

Originally posted by miau

Fugitive:
nice idea
but animated pieces would definitely be more fun
they'd need to have like..
two animations for attacking (facing down/facing up)
two animations for being captured (facing down/facing up)
eight animations for moving to adjacent tiles (one for each direction)

..which requires quite some effort, though
using a smaller board may help
I'd even try to turn it into a playable game

lemme know what you think

That sounds cool

Fugitve is playing on his XBox 360
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Quote miau Replybullet Posted: 25 December 2005 at 2:49pm
very well
so... is there anyone else who would be interested in such a collaboration?
...
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Quote Psychotic_Carp Replybullet Posted: 25 December 2005 at 4:35pm

Anyone want to add more pages to the Never Ending Story?

got game?
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Quote cure Replybullet Posted: 01 January 2006 at 11:44pm
I'm really not sure if this has been done before or not.  Infact, I came across a Chinese pixel site ( not sure if it was a link from here or not) named pixelforest, or something to that extent.  Anyway the idea is basically an isocity, except a forest/ natural theme instead of a city.  Again, I'm not sure if this exists yet or not, just thought it might be cool.
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Quote PandaPlanet Replybullet Posted: 02 January 2006 at 2:31pm

Originally posted by Fugitive


What about a chess board and Pieces   not that I know how to play  
Here's a quick board to show what it could look like
...

I'll teach you ;)

Originally posted by miau

Fugitive:
nice idea
but animated pieces would definitely be more fun
they'd need to have like..
two animations for attacking (facing down/facing up)
two animations for being captured (facing down/facing up)
eight animations for moving to adjacent tiles (one for each direction)

..which requires quite some effort, though
using a smaller board may help
I'd even try to turn it into a playable game

lemme know what you think

That would be a great project, fun yet hard and it's still useable at the end.
You've got some collabs where it's finished, this one can be played ^^
If you guys start this up, I'd be happy to help out.

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Quote BruceJuice Replybullet Posted: 07 January 2006 at 4:36am
I like the chess board idea. I'm thinking about novelty chessboards and pieces right now. I'm sure the community could make some good stuff.
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Quote jalonso Replybullet Posted: 15 January 2006 at 10:50pm

An idea for possible development...
Create the alphabet (26 pieces) and then join them to create a cityscape. I will put the pieces together and add the infrastructure and blend the pieces into one, possibly 1024x768px.

  • This project is isometric?
  • No color limitations and no fixed pallete.
  • As long as its to scale and no higher than two stories(?) high so that one letter does'nt block another, or you won't be able to make the letters out, there is no other restriction.
  • The pieces can then be joined together into a cityscape that can be offered as a wallpaper, unless there is a better idea.
  • Quality should be the main criteria for acceptance.
  • Could be the same typestyle, ie: verdana of a mixture of typestyles. (unsure on this point.)
  • Here is a scale guide and the letter "P"  as an example;

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