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xxmantisxx
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Quote xxmantisxx Replybullet Topic: Human Head Help
    Posted: 16 July 2011 at 3:13pm
I really need some advice on this, I've been practicing AA and think it came out okay:


I especially need help with the hair.


Edited by xxmantisxx - 16 July 2011 at 4:48pm
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MacNcheese
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Quote MacNcheese Replybullet Posted: 16 July 2011 at 3:52pm
Here.
Scroll down to things to avoid, and read a little about banding, hugging, fat lines, 45 degree banding because i see some of those mistakes in your picture.  I'll try to pinpoint exactly where you make these mistake if you need me to
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Quote xxmantisxx Replybullet Posted: 16 July 2011 at 4:45pm
Alright thanks! I've looked at that forum before but i guess i should go through it again!



I tried to consult all of the problem addressed in the tutorial, and it looks better thank you!


Edited by xxmantisxx - 16 July 2011 at 4:48pm
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Quote Hatch Replybullet Posted: 17 July 2011 at 1:16am
Can you explain the horizontal red lines in the middle of her face? I'm assuming they're supposed to define her nose, but I cannot understand how. I'm not trying to be snarky.

I'd suggest using darker skin tones to AA from the black lines on her face rather than shades of gray.
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Quote ChrisButton Replybullet Posted: 17 July 2011 at 3:46am

Some newz you can uze:

Pixel art looks pro without lines when done right.
Never use pure black or white on a piece.
Your red, dark purple and dark orange (skin colour) are too saturated. :-)
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cure
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Quote cure Replybullet Posted: 17 July 2011 at 7:46am
well, maybe not -never- use black or white, but use them only when you have a range of values that can make the transition to white or black, otherwise they can be too strong to use pure.

otherwise I agree with the above. the red things between the eyes aren't recognizable as anything, and your dark skin tone is too saturated. also try using the skin tones rather than grey for the aa around the mouth/eyebrows/etc. be wary of 45 degree banding. top of the head looks pretty flat. hair lacks volume as well, it feels like it's wet and flat against her head.

there are some places where I think aa is not that necessary, and a better defined outline would work better.


Edited by cure - 17 July 2011 at 7:47am
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Quote H|F Replybullet Posted: 18 July 2011 at 12:34am
Sorry that I did my own thing... got too into what I was doing.
 
Anyway, hope this helps you in some way.
 
You really should try to stay away from pure black for eye lashes and such.
 
 
11 colors =/ bit much but I tried.
 
The hair is a bit messy but hope that gives you an idea. Besides just testing things out yourself it always helps to look at pixels up close. I'm sure you know that this forum has a zoom feature? just click on images. I myself would just copy it and open it up in a program and just stare at it up close. Thats something I would do when I was pretty new to pixelart.
 
eyepatch= me being lazy
 
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xxmantisxx
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Quote xxmantisxx Replybullet Posted: 22 July 2011 at 5:12pm
(Sorry for the slow reply)

Thanks for being so helpful guys!

I made an edit, it's at least better.


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Quote onek Replybullet Posted: 22 July 2011 at 5:19pm
i made an edit the other day aswell but forgot to post it later on..
so here it is:



its 5 colors instead of 16
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Quote xxmantisxx Replybullet Posted: 22 July 2011 at 5:27pm
Not really sure i like the boxy shape, colors are quite excellent though.

Mostly my fault of course, you were simply following the outline of my old one xD
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Quote Friend Replybullet Posted: 22 July 2011 at 8:00pm
hahaha indeed, onek's shaping is near identical to your outline, funny :p
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Quote H|F Replybullet Posted: 22 July 2011 at 11:24pm
Slowly but surely. It does look slightly better but still needs color re-work esp
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Quote xxmantisxx Replybullet Posted: 23 July 2011 at 2:21pm
As you may have noticed, I'm horrible when it comes to colors, what would you suggest and I'll try to make it better.
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Quote Miumau0 Replybullet Posted: 23 July 2011 at 5:21pm
Its good to practice and create palettes. Colors make your art alive :)
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xxmantisxx
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Quote xxmantisxx Replybullet Posted: 24 July 2011 at 8:15am
Okay, here's my... Attempt...




Edited by xxmantisxx - 24 July 2011 at 8:15am
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Quote Friend Replybullet Posted: 24 July 2011 at 9:44am
much better :) shade the face?
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Quote xxmantisxx Replybullet Posted: 24 July 2011 at 2:00pm
I'm not sure i like the way it looks shaded, maybe it's just the way i did it...


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Miumau0
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Quote Miumau0 Replybullet Posted: 24 July 2011 at 2:34pm


I think it looks lttle bit dull with only shading is under mouth. I shaded half of the face and added shadows uder the eyebrowns. you may want to look again oneks edit and shadowing :)


Edited by Miumau0 - 24 July 2011 at 2:35pm
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xxmantisxx
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Quote xxmantisxx Replybullet Posted: 24 July 2011 at 7:27pm
I like your edit, good call on the eyes, although i think the shine is a tad too severe, so i made mine smaller than yours, here it is:


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Quote H|F Replybullet Posted: 24 July 2011 at 9:29pm
I think even if she has a round shape to her face, don't shade like she is a ball. Even if her chin doesn't have much shape I would shade to make her seem like she has a small chin.
 
Try a bit more contrast, the skin mostly. Also I feel like you have too many colors, if it doesn't make a difference for the viewer why use it?
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Quote xxmantisxx Replybullet Posted: 01 August 2011 at 7:40am
I feel, with the same reason, why edit it? If i intend to use more colors than i need and it makes no difference why should i go through the trouble of editing it? Maybe it's just me being stubborn. If you really think i need to i will...
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Quote BrightBit Replybullet Posted: 01 August 2011 at 8:39am
I don't like the way her hair is organised. You need to think of hair as being one object consisting of several smaller objects (the strands of hair).

Here's an edit:



My version isn't finished and therefor also not perfect but I hope you get the idea.

Originally posted by xxmantisxx

If i intend to use more colors than i need and it makes no difference why should i go through the trouble of editing it?

Some reasons:
1. Pixelart is based on many limitations. That's what this "genre" is famous for. If you use many colours, i.e. ignoring the limitations why bothering makeing pixelart at all?
2. Try to edit an image that uses 1000 colours versus the manipulation of an image that uses just 2. So the rule of thumb here is: the more colours you use the more skills you need to keep track of them.


Edited by BrightBit - 01 August 2011 at 8:43am
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Quote xxmantisxx Replybullet Posted: 01 August 2011 at 8:46am
I like your edit, and you make a good point, I'll make an edit but...
The shape of the face is odd, i don't know it just seems jaggy... As for the hair it seems too messy, i don't see why it should be a bed head, with so many strands sticking out. Calm and controlled hair is what i was going for.
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Quote Zeratanus Replybullet Posted: 01 August 2011 at 10:05am
The face looks odd primarily because its just a circle. which wouldnt be too bad, except the 'chin' is nowhere near the middle of the face.

And for colors - contrast contrast contrast! too much contrast is bad for a piece but too little, like  you have now, flattens it. No shading will save it from looking flat if theres no contrast to the colors.

Made an edit. Primarily what I did was move the chin so it was under the mouth, and about centered with the face. I also lowered the mouth, and for the hair I was just doodling but got rid of a number of the different strands you had going. With hair, the more you define the number of strands the more messy and dirty it'll look.



Also messed around with the shading for contrast, and added my version of a nose and a neck, cuz floating heads look weird :B

anyway, keep it  up!
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Quote xxmantisxx Replybullet Posted: 01 August 2011 at 11:17am
Alright, taking that into consideration i made an edit:



There's strand and ring shading, witch one is better? I like the ring.
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Quote Friend Replybullet Posted: 01 August 2011 at 12:22pm
yeah I like ring alot. I still find the skin tones too bright and not enough contrast with the bright hair. Youve come a great distance from the beginning :)
it's fun watching it improve with each edit




Edited by Frost Butt - 01 August 2011 at 12:24pm
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Quote BrightBit Replybullet Posted: 01 August 2011 at 3:16pm
That's the way to go. I like your current version. :-) ...and I think that the "ring" version is better. You still should increase the contrast for the hair, though. ...and you should remove the shading of the chin (IMHO).

...but I really like the hair now.
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Quote Hatch Replybullet Posted: 01 August 2011 at 11:23pm
Completely agree about taking the shadow off the chin. Maybe even make it less round as well.
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Quote Artisan Replybullet Posted: 02 August 2011 at 7:09am
Hey, made a quick 5 min edit for you, it is in no way perfect at all but maybe it will give you some ideas in terms of direction.



basically i think you should look more at the shape and structure (thats what this edit was in aid of really) of the face, im not sure what kind of expression she is supposed to have, but i read it as red eyes to be almost an evil glare so that is what i worked towards,

as you can see it still keeps its oval appearance but is not totally round, subtle shape changes can really help to define a face as opposed to a sphere with eyes. i would change the shape of your head to try define it better..

also i included a neck as did Zeratanus because its odd seeing the hair drop behind the head with no neck, also it ties it in better.

i added the pin to the hair just to add a bit of detail, something to almost decorate the character, make it a bit more readable and believable as a "person"

there are probably some other things you can pick up from it, the hairs a mess and it has its problems but you get the idea. enjoy

edit: oh yeah one more thing, this is really a personal preference but it is good practice to work on a 50% grey background, this is because your eyes perceive colours differently depending on the background you work on, 50% grey will give you an even reference point as to how light and dark your colours are as well as contrast between them.

Edited by Artisan - 02 August 2011 at 7:11am

I like shiny things, i do indeed.
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Quote xxmantisxx Replybullet Posted: 02 August 2011 at 5:40pm
Alright, thanks! Let me work for a bit and get an edit up there to address the problems.

EDIT: Here's the updated version:

More expression, changed the hair, edited the eye color, and added a neck.
Thanks to Artisan, what a helpful edit!

@Frostbutt Wow, i didn't even realize how far i had gone... It's all thanks to you guys, thanks for the attention!



Edited by xxmantisxx - 02 August 2011 at 6:07pm
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Quote Hatch Replybullet Posted: 03 August 2011 at 11:55am
I might make her neck a bit shorter. It may even be cool to take this one step further and draw the shoulders and upper chest (sort of a bust).

Another thing. It feels a bit lacking in darks. Maybe you could make at least her outermost outlines darker, or make darker shadows or something. Just seems to lack solidity to me.

I'm also not crazy about the highly saturated orange used for the skin outlines.
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Quote cure Replybullet Posted: 03 August 2011 at 5:45pm
neck is too far back, it looks like the back of the head and the neck are a continuum. feel where your own spine connects to the back of your skull. the back of the cranium sits further back


with the neck so long and the cranium so large, why not lengthen the face and give her more of a jaw (and give room for a nose, whether she has  one or not)



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Quote xxmantisxx Replybullet Posted: 03 August 2011 at 7:38pm
I really don't like the way the long face looks, as right as you are.

So i shortened the neck and added some more, but i can't seem to get the dress right :( How am i supposed to do this right? The dress just doesn't look good...


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Quote wuhu Replybullet Posted: 03 August 2011 at 7:45pm
wooo looks heaps better already!
think the shadows in the latest version are the best.
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Quote xxmantisxx Replybullet Posted: 03 August 2011 at 7:52pm
Thanks. Do you see anything odd with the dress?
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Quote cure Replybullet Posted: 03 August 2011 at 8:17pm
that orange highlight is still way too saturated. you could use a lot more contrast in your palette.

you should be drawing out the anatomy, then cropping. if you draw it already cropped, then there's a tendency to squeeze in what you want instead of what you'd actually see. here, the top of her cleavage is about where the indention between her collarbones should be. since you didn't want to lengthen the face, i just moved the eyes in my edit, since they seemed to be floating to the bottom and sides of her head (it also reduced a rather large forehead/cranium).


I also think you should decide how much of this girl you're going to draw and crop it at a natural-looking point.

aa is too heavy around the bottom of the face. the shadow cast by her bangs onto her forehead shouldn't reach all the way too the bangs, since they sit off the surface. her head should cast more of a shadow onto her neck. google dresses to see how the straps fit the shoulders.

the use of broken outlines (where the hair meets the face on the right side of the image) is a no-no.


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Quote xxmantisxx Replybullet Posted: 04 August 2011 at 8:29am
*Sigh* My edit was not very good, but i gave it a shot:



I'll have another edit soon, i don't have time right now i have things to do.
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Quote cure Replybullet Posted: 04 August 2011 at 8:41am
outline is still too saturated, it should be more brown and less red (to fit with the other skin colors). it's a big jump to purple, darken some more purples to ease the transition. definite improvement though.
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Quote xxmantisxx Replybullet Posted: 04 August 2011 at 12:52pm
Here:


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Quote jalonso Replybullet Posted: 04 August 2011 at 1:51pm
I've tried hard not to meddle...I failed >.<

You have one stray color pixel that's bugging me.
I think you need to rework the top of the head entirely because your current palette just does not work well.
When coloring the hair instead of using a single color keep switching to one shade lighter as you go so the lines are softened (like selout-line coloring). See my edit below.
You have several shades that are not needed because they can be shared and other colors shifted around so that they can work for both hair and skin. Notice my palette interconnects and the neutrals have been adjusted to be used in more than one place. (ignore the 2 transparent colors above pink). When developing colors try to get then so they 'help' you. For example the orangy brown I picked to help AA in the face AND the hair.

This is a quickie edit and can certainly be improved which I trust you will do. KUTGW :)




Edited by jalonso - 04 August 2011 at 1:52pm
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Quote xxmantisxx Replybullet Posted: 04 August 2011 at 4:03pm
Heh, quite the eye for a stray pixel, eh?

here's my edit, not too good but...


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Quote jalonso Replybullet Posted: 04 August 2011 at 5:42pm
Its better. You just need to work the top of the head a bit and especially the lock of hair over the face. I'm sure someone will have better feedback than me for how to handle shading the top of the head. I would add that the front of the hair over the art's right shoulder should maybe overlap a little so its not confused with being over the shoulder.
Also maybe the cleavage line is going too far up as the boob crease would never be near the clavicles like that (even in cartoony style art).
The clavicle darker brown sticks out too much, just use the light shade. Remember, AA is used when needed to smooth a line. Not using AA sometimes is ok
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Quote xxmantisxx Replybullet Posted: 04 August 2011 at 6:38pm
Alright, now?


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Quote PureAwesomeness Replybullet Posted: 04 August 2011 at 7:13pm
Pretty nice!
My suggestion for the hair is to make the highlights a little more jagged, not in the pixel art way, but the real life way. Hair's made up of thousands of strands that all lay at slightly different angles, so light reflects off each one a little differently, creating a vertical zigzag effect. Judging from your light source, which seems to be coming directly from the right, you may need to make one side's highlight a little longer than the other. Also, there shouldn't be too many large areas with just one solid colour.
The line under the chin is a little distracting too, you may want to either lighten it a little or erase some of the dark pixels.
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Quote xxmantisxx Replybullet Posted: 04 August 2011 at 8:00pm
Thanks. I tried the zig zag (Left image)and without (Right image)




Edited by xxmantisxx - 04 August 2011 at 8:01pm
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Quote Celia Replybullet Posted: 04 August 2011 at 8:35pm
The brightest highlight on the hair would roughly follow the same zigzag. :D In a dress/top like that, I doubt you would even be able to see any cleavage.

Edited by Celia - 04 August 2011 at 8:35pm
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Quote Artisan Replybullet Posted: 05 August 2011 at 7:09am
> > > > > > > > >

not a crit at all just saying nice work, great improvement, this is what these forums are all about. keep it up!

I like shiny things, i do indeed.
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Quote xxmantisxx Replybullet Posted: 05 August 2011 at 8:28am
Wow... Thanks!
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Quote Delicious Replybullet Posted: 05 August 2011 at 6:10pm
Amazing improvement. Nothing more to critic on this, looks great. :)
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Quote xxmantisxx Replybullet Posted: 05 August 2011 at 7:10pm
So you think that i should submit this now?
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