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jalonso
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Quote jalonso Replybullet Topic: GRIEVANCES + COMPLAINTS
    Posted: 06 October 2011 at 6:32am
This thread is for reporting unprofessional behavior for both artists and clients.
This is only meant to help PJ members make their own decisions and do not necessarily mean Pixeljoint has verified these reports beyond some basics.
• Post your grievance here and provide link to project thread and member profile page.
• Give details of incident for PJ staff review. If valid the offending party will be listed in the official list below and if needed banning of the member.
• If you wish to report but not to be publicly listed as a reporter then PM any Mod with your issue. We do prefer transparency and prefer everyone list their name, tho.
• Clients and artists reported here are always welcome to state their side of the story or clarify any incident.


Edited by jeremy - 07 October 2013 at 9:10pm
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Quote Delicious Replybullet Posted: 13 November 2011 at 1:14am
Report List
Client /Artist Handle
Details Action Taken
Thread Reported By
Date
EMG100 Did not pay for commissioned work Started this Grievances and complaint thread. \o/ here Mr Special 7 October 2011
Joshua Astorian email Did not deliver assets which were paid for

here here here
Quemist, many others
11 November 2011







































































 






Edited by jeremy - 07 October 2013 at 9:09pm
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Clest
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Quote Clest Replybullet Posted: 15 November 2011 at 8:50am
Thankyou for this wonderful and useful topic!
Here goes:

name of the client: Fresh
Topic: http://www.pixeljoint.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=13129
case:
Made some work for him, finished saturday and sent to him,with no reply I contacted him again and got the exact following answer: "Yes, I have received, I found someone else for the job. I can not accept yours work in comparison, really sorry! :("

Honestly that is not how you deal in business.
First he should have waited and if he thought I was taking took long he should have contacted me to ask how thiongs are going or for an estimated delivery time.
Second he should have contacted me as soon as he found someone else.
Third if not happy with my work he should solve things with me first, as I am always willing to edit and change my work to fit the client´s needs and expectations, which I assume people who worked with me can say for my patience and effort.

Honestly I feel betrayed since I was not informed in time, wasted time and effort which I could have devoted to some other tasks, that was unprofessional and I can´t say someone with that atitude can be trusted. Saying sorry won´t bring back my wasted time.

Hope everyone stay aware of this before working with him :(

name of the client: Qemist
Topic: http://www.pixeljoint.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=13021
case:
Somwhere around that, he hired to finish his mech sprite which in turn was a biogger task than expected as yje mech he made needed some corrections, this took me a week of working and him directing, then he disappears and comes back with that: "Hello Ceci,

sorry for not replying to your mails. Right now I'm looking into a possible scam by someone who was helping me alongside you and I somehow lost trust in working with people on the net. Unlike you I did pay him up in advance and my apologees for not comming out clear as soon as possible. Hence my few harsh emails I sent a few days ago and not replying to your latest emails and works. I did tell you do hold it off for now and not to work on, and I hope you didnt waste your time.

If we decide to continue I am willing to pay up a advance (50%) but right now I want to sort out this scam.

Again, my apologees..

Thanks,"

Refarding have warned me before to hold on things, which he only did after my second day working, he never mentioned the real issue, instead hge came like that "If you arent able to do it please dont waste your time but let me know. I hate to waste your time and not be satisfied in the end. The air shaft thing on the "shoulder" looks really cool together with the lines you did on same the thing."

By that I assume that I should only have stopped if I wouldn´t be able to complete the task, which on his last e mail pasted above, he reconized I could and that he was harsh in doubting my skills from first drafts.

I got everything on my e mail if prints are needed for either cases.
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Quote Matwek Replybullet Posted: 21 March 2012 at 8:31am
I forgot this topic was here, sorry.

name of the client: disimon
Topic: http://www.pixeljoint.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=13841&PN=1

CASE:

I just thought I better warn anyone working on this game about the employers. This is the first time I’ve ever had to leave negative feedback after being active on these forums for several years now, I may not post too often in the rest of the forum but I get plenty of requests for work from my profile (http://www.pixeljoint.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=11063) and believe I am very professional when dealing with clients. If I didn’t I wouldn’t be able to afford to eat.

That being said I was chosen to work on the tilesets and layout of this game and produced these two mock ups for the menu screen and main gameplay screen.

http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j260/matwek/TrackMockUp.png

http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j260/matwek/FlagMockUp.png

At which point I was offered a so called contract and statement of work and went on to produce the tileset needed to create this full-sized screen along with menu selection including all 20 flags from the G20, an animated highlight flash to show country selection and a full font for in game text.

http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j260/matwek/ScreenShot.png

http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j260/matwek/CountrySelection.png

It was at this point that I was informed that my work was “unusable” because…

“Flags were not their top priority” – even though the Statement of Work had no such priority listing and flags weren’t’ the only thing I produced.

“Not happy with the samples” – Even though they saw the original samples long before I started updating them and increasing them in size
On numerous occasions I asked for feedback on my work and if I was going in the right direction and each time I either received no reply or got another question rather than an answer to my own.
Whilst I do believe they feel like they are a professional set up and do have work to prove that is the case, there attitude towards me has been very unprofessional.
Basically if you can give them exactly what they want, when they want it, and how they want it without being actually told then you’ll probably be paid.
As for me I’m now down $2000 as I got dropped from this project after a months’ worth of correspondence and work.
If anyone might have a use for the tiles I do have then drop me an email (matwek@hotmail.com) and we might be able to work out a discount on the stuff I have.

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Victor Rojo
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Quote Victor Rojo Replybullet Posted: 25 July 2012 at 7:13am
why don´t make the same forum but with recommended/reliable clients/artist?
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Quote Halffish Replybullet Posted: 10 August 2012 at 1:49pm
You guys should ALWAYS be dealing with contracts, for any amount of paid work. For both artist and the client. Perhaps it would be more professional to start a thread about how to go about freelance work rather than a complaint thread listing people's information?

Edited by Halffish - 10 August 2012 at 1:50pm
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Quote stevefrank Replybullet Posted: 13 September 2012 at 5:08am
Originally posted by Victor Rojo

why don´t make the same forum but with <span id="result_" ="short_text" lang="en"><span ="hps">recommended</span>/<span ="hps">reliable</span></span> clients/artist?


interesting idea..
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Quote Hound Replybullet Posted: 15 September 2012 at 10:48pm
Originally posted by Clest


name of the client: Qemist
Topic: http://www.pixeljoint.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=13021
case:
Somwhere around that, he hired to finish his mech sprite which in turn was a biogger task than expected as yje mech he made needed some corrections, this took me a week of working and him directing, then he disappears and comes back with that: "Hello Ceci,

sorry for not replying to your mails. Right now I'm looking into a possible scam by someone who was helping me alongside you and I somehow lost trust in working with people on the net. Unlike you I did pay him up in advance and my apologees for not comming out clear as soon as possible. Hence my few harsh emails I sent a few days ago and not replying to your latest emails and works. I did tell you do hold it off for now and not to work on, and I hope you didnt waste your time.

If we decide to continue I am willing to pay up a advance (50%) but right now I want to sort out this scam.

Again, my apologees..

Thanks,"

Refarding have warned me before to hold on things, which he only did after my second day working, he never mentioned the real issue, instead hge came like that "If you arent able to do it please dont waste your time but let me know. I hate to waste your time and not be satisfied in the end. The air shaft thing on the "shoulder" looks really cool together with the lines you did on same the thing."

By that I assume that I should only have stopped if I wouldn´t be able to complete the task, which on his last e mail pasted above, he reconized I could and that he was harsh in doubting my skills from first drafts.

I got everything on my e mail if prints are needed for either cases.

I had almost an identical experience with Qemist/Leendert Oomen on the same project. Same strange communication, stories, and lack of payment. He apparently had a few of us working at once.
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Quote burnz Replybullet Posted: 23 September 2012 at 9:43pm
Member: joblea

While talking to this member for some paid work on sprite animation and being told $130 upfront per animation i sent him the following email

>>>"i'm sorry but this isn't going to work out when you say its $15/h then
>>> charge $130 for one animation
>>>
>>> I guess you're just out of my price range, sorry to waste your time."

Which made him ask what price i tthought was fair i respectfully replied with this as i was embarrassed by the size of my budget as i'm still a uni student

>> Really its fine, i'd feel bad talking you down from $130 per animation
>> to the sort of prices im looking at.
>>
>> Like i said sorry it hasn't worked out

After this he started to send me abusive email from the hours of 12:10am last night and i'm still receiving them now at 12:30pm

Some of my favorite received e-mails include:
>>>WTF!!! YOU GO TO HELL LOSER!!!!

and

>>>HAHAHA LOSER! NO ARTIST WILL WORK FOR A BIG A-HOLE LIKE YOU HAHA GO f**k YOUR MOTHER ..HAHA

This experience is just one of the a few iv had while on this site trying to offer paid work to the community. It has reflected poorly on PixelJoint as a whole as well as its level of unprofessionalism.

I really hope my experiences are unique from others

Edited by burnz - 23 September 2012 at 9:49pm
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Quote DawnBringer Replybullet Posted: 24 September 2012 at 2:29am
"It has reflected poorly on PixelJoint as a whole as well as its level of unprofessionalism."

Not at all. What do you expect when you hire some random lurker without a gallery or established PJ-history.
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Quote burnz Replybullet Posted: 24 September 2012 at 4:45am
I was linked with a portfolio and details of past works. Like i said it was one of a few incidents.

Others included someone producing something completely different than what was asked for then emailing me drunk and demanding payment when i didn't even agree to start the project and sure as hell didn't agree on what he decided to produce out of the guidelines

Others take well over a day to respond to messages on the site as well as answer emails when i respond to them within the hour (most the time instantly).

If there are any pixel artist on this site with a professional attitude i would love to meet them.
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Qemist
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Quote Qemist Replybullet Posted: 27 September 2012 at 11:13pm
Originally posted by Hound


I had almost an identical experience with Qemist/Leendert Oomen on the same project. Same strange communication, stories, and lack of payment. He apparently had a few of us working at once.


I've actually paid people who put out decent work I asked for. One of these is actually Dawnbringer.

When looking at your website I can remember the images but when looking back in my gmail I cant find anything you created for me at all.

I'm dutch and not a native. Communication isnt always easy so maybe thats why we gave up working together. I've paid various artists the amounts they have asked me for. Too bad theres these ghost stories around from artist that dont put in the time and efford you expect them to do.

Other then that as a salesadvisor for kitchens I dont have all the time in the world to reply on emails. I work from monday to sunday and only reply when im off work in the night hours.

If you really finished the product I would have paid. And since I dont see any product and cant remember seeing any I dont think you have?

My point is: If you go and buy a car you're not gonna pay for one that cant even start its engine. If you read Clest his post you can clearly see I pointed out that he probably couldnt fulfill my needs. To be less harsh and to give him direction of what kind of detailed work I was after I told him what I liked about his art.

With all the respect I'm sorry if it didnt work out. Theres quite a few freelancers I have great communications with and have paid for various jobs. Both parties are extremely happy and these ghost stories really make me more then sad.

You can follow the META4 PROJECT here incase you have any doubts. I never used any art from these two guys either.


Also Joshua Astorian didnt deliver me completed work at first. I've actually been in touch with him later and he has done a few commissions for me. Only after he finished them I paid and hes a great artist with great skills. Too bad I didnt have much faith in him before and feel bad for reporting him now.

Hes still reported here and I know why. Communication is hard for him. Hes in the same boat I'm about to be in.


Edited by Qemist - 27 September 2012 at 11:38pm
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Quote Matwek Replybullet Posted: 28 September 2012 at 12:34am
I've worked for you before and I've had similar problems to other people. I do some trial pieces, make loads of tweaks and then when I start discussing quotes you disappear.
To be honest it's not doing the samples for free that bothers me, I do it quite often and anything I don't get paid for I usually use at a later date, it's the lack of professionalism that annoys people.
When you finally got back in contact you said you had stopped replying because you didn't want to pay my prices, rather than just emailing me to tell me that or try to negotiate. So then i said i could drop the prices if i also drop the quality a little and you emailed back to say you were happy to pay for decent work... A complete contradiction to what you had said earlier.

That fact that this is the second or third time you've posted for help on these boards for the same project is enough to put anyone off.
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Quote Qemist Replybullet Posted: 28 September 2012 at 10:47pm
I'm gonna ask my artists that actually put out decent work that didnt charge for sample art I didnt like to post in my META4 topic. 
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Quote Matwek Replybullet Posted: 30 September 2012 at 9:21am
Originally posted by Qemist

I'm gonna ask my artists that actually put out decent work that didnt charge for sample art I didnt like to post in my META4 topic. 

You're missing the point here.
I didn't charge for sample art, I did it for free but the moment I brought up the subject of money you disappeared and didn't reply to emails.

Whats the point in doing samples for someone to get a job if you don't even know what you're going to be paid if you're successful? Thats like turning up to a job interview with no idea what the salary is going to be.

I'm sure there are plenty of people out there that have worked for you and things have gone well but if they don't go well you have to treat potential cleients with a bit more respect otherwise you end up having the problem you have now.

And for anyone interested here is the (free) sample I did. I was trying to match the style of the purple floor so made up a few basic tiles for which I could add extra detail to.

I never expected to get paid unless I was offered the job. I just didn't expect to be ignored.
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Quote Qemist Replybullet Posted: 30 September 2012 at 3:06pm
The point is that I allready have admitted earlier that I have been a bit sloppy at some point. Wich is because of my job and I should have emailed you with a sorry you didnt make it. The payment just made it seem like you felt you got the job.

Concluding that this subject keeps being brought up and right now I have jobs on hold because I want to pay someone before bringing in new art. I cant have anyone feel like they are not recieving a payment.

Again my apologee for not sending emails. I have been searching for good contacts and communication aswell as improving my own.
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Quote Tikky Replybullet Posted: 25 October 2012 at 10:17am
Actually , thanks for joshua, I was about to maybe talk with him for a job. Thanks for the info i will just skip it
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Quote montonero Replybullet Posted: 27 October 2012 at 12:36pm
Looks like Joshua Astorian is a seasoned scammer.
I have to admit that I paid some money to him, and haven't received anything.

His latest contact details:
Joshua Astorian
Email: joshuaastorian@yahoo.com
Alternate email: joshuastorian@gmail.com
Skype: joshastorian
AIM: joshastorian
MSN Messenger: joshuaastorian@hotmail.com
GTalk: joshastorian@gmail.com

The reason I fell for it was that I did a quick search for his name + email (which he probably changed) and that did not lead me to this page, but to his linkedin profile. For some reason Adam Tierney of Wayforward left Joshua a positive recommendation knowing that Joshua is a fraudster (see http://www.wayofthepixel.net/index.php?topic=8561.0). Because of that recommendation I trusted him.
Also, his linkedin profile incorrectly states that he still works as a freelancer for Wayforward, but that's not the case. I've now contacted them asking to amend this information.
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Quote Clest Replybullet Posted: 12 November 2012 at 6:40pm
Originally posted by Qemist

The point is that I allready have admitted earlier that I have been a bit sloppy at some point. Wich is because of my job and I should have emailed you with a sorry you didnt make it. The payment just made it seem like you felt you got the job.Concluding that this subject keeps being brought up and right now I have jobs on hold because I want to pay someone before bringing in new art. I cant have anyone feel like they are not recieving a payment.Again my apologee for not sending emails. I have been searching for good contacts and communication aswell as improving my own.



The problem for me is that I wasted a whole week working for you and only after that whole period you come to say my work was not good for you despite having said before that things were getting close to what you wanted, more than you disappearing it was the lame excuse you mentioned that "someone had scammed you so you couldn´t trust anyone to pay" now that is not my problem and it is not fair to screw others cause someone elswe screwed you.

Also regarding my work: http://www.pixeljoint.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=10246
I believe that even I am not the best spriter in the world my work is quite decent, now take note that to reach those results some of my clients had to be patient and direct me and criticize and ask for changes, which I was doing for you even with your rude comments and remarks, so yeah, on top of time wasted you gave me a week of stress for zero payment, that is WRONG and don´t say otherwise.
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Quote Qemist Replybullet Posted: 09 December 2012 at 11:40pm
Dear Clest,

I have never been rude in any of my emails. All of the emails sent to you I kept and I just read them back.

As a artist you have to listen to your client. Im sorry to tell you but for some reason I felt like you didnt listen or even tried to understand me.

You where going to improve the mech I concepted. At first things seemed to go the right direction until it only got worse and worse because you didnt listen.

The end result made by someone else is exactly what we needed for around same price you where asking without too many issues what so ever.

And please.. if that what you sent me on the mail costs you a week then hiring you as a artist would cost me a fortune..

This is you trying to improve my art (you drew a few lines on the body shapes and changed a few colours.. thats all)

Here is the improved art we use today and this was what we where aiming for

Please stop to bring me and the META4 project down by bringing up the fact that you didnt get the job.

We have paid artists many times before and just like all the others you did some small work to audition / qualify for a job and you didnt make it.

Better luck next time!


Edited by Qemist - 09 December 2012 at 11:44pm
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Quote Raju Replybullet Posted: 07 March 2013 at 11:44pm
I think it would be better if pixeljoint or these who already doing some of the job could make a SOP (standar operation procedure) of how client and artist should progress on these kind of work rather than pointing who to blame..

Hopefully it could be a guideline for both client and artist to minimize misscom or scammer..
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Quote ulfus Replybullet Posted: 03 May 2013 at 8:39pm
When I first started commissioning work I would pay the entire amount upfront. Then I had an immature artist not read the details of one of my requests and then refused to redo it, oh well it was only a $75USD loss(He created an image of a modern city with skyscrapers instead of a fantasy village :/)

I pay half before and half on completion now.
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Quote Mino Replybullet Posted: 13 November 2013 at 1:18pm
Originally posted by Halffish

You guys should ALWAYS be dealing with contracts, for any amount of paid work. For both artist and the client. Perhaps it would be more professional to start a thread about how to go about freelance work rather than a complaint thread listing people's information?

I'm really into this idea actually. I'm new to freelance work and a guide to professional transactions would be great.
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Quote Pixelart_kid Replybullet Posted: 02 December 2013 at 12:14pm
I recently i tried to work as a freelance artist, but I have surprised the amount of people looking for a pixel artist and do not value their work.

Customer Name: Ssunhttp://www.pixeljoint.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=17433

He needed 48 sprite, for your game(based on hunter x hunter game),I was in charge of the 24 sprite, while other pixel artist was responsible for the other 24 sprite.

Both of us would pay $ 100 usd for the job, but he repented, he did not want to have problems with copyright.

The problem is that, would not buy the sprite hunter x hunter and he decided to change the character sprite by others.

He has asked me that instead of the characters in hunter x hunter, wanted to make him 10 beasts (sprite with 4 directions each) and 10 rare items(that was random without specifications).

I cashed it for $5 usd for each spite (four directions), which is cheaper than a Pixel artist can charge(In total it would be $ 50 usd).

But he refused and wanted me to pay for each sprite $ 1 USD, which in total would be $ 20 usd.

I tried to negotiate the total was $35 USD, but to no avail, he said he only had $ 20 usd, so I did not accept.

The case in point is that there are people on the forums, that your first offer you get an acceptable value, but half the work done, change their minds.

Maybe there are customers who think that because I'm a Latino, my price for my work should be smaller than other artist,but actually the value of my work is like any artist, anywhere in this small world.

Regularly i charge for sprite $5 USD, $15 for Background, and $20 USD for animation or $15 usd per hour.

How can someone who can provide 100 USD ends up wanting to pay less than agreed?.

For clients and pixel artist is best read this article written by Adam Atomics:

http://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/AdamSaltsman/20090724/2571/Pixel_Art_Freelance_Best_Practices__Guidelines.php

Cheers!!

Edited by Pixelart_kid - 02 December 2013 at 12:16pm
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Quote SuperBiasedMan Replybullet Posted: 02 December 2013 at 1:19pm
Pixelart_kid, I recommend either asking for some portion of the money before starting work.
Or decide to deliver work in batches. For example, if you're doing 40 sprites in total, do 10 first and when those 10 are paid for you start the next 10 sprites and so on.

If someone wants to hire you but is unhappy with that arrangement then that could mean they would be difficult about money after the work is done too.

(Though, I would warn you not to sound like you're suspicious of them when you suggest one of these payment systems. Just make it clear that it's standard practice and a fairer system)
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Quote breakfast Replybullet Posted: 04 December 2013 at 12:17pm
I've had the displeasure of being stiffed out of money by my recent client Brandon Stone (email addy is beeblicon@gmail.com).

Brandon didn't say where he found my portfolio, but it was most likely these forums or Pixelation's forums so I wanted to give everyone a heads up, as he is likely out searching for a new artist now.

I had a contract in place (which he signed) that stated I would be paid a certain hourly fee and once these assets were delivered along with the invoice, full payment would be required. He received these assets and my invoice, then he stated he was "not paying [me] a dime." He also claimed "your lucky i dont sue for your verbally abusive harassment." What was this verbal abuse he speaks of? I told him I "dodged a bullet with this one." (referring to working with him)

Brandon does not care that a contract is legally binding. The amount that is owed to me is not enough to warrant taking him to court, so I will have to just eat the losses. Be careful this doesn't happen to you also!

Avoid working with Brandon Stone at all costs!


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Quote Pixelart_kid Replybullet Posted: 06 December 2013 at 1:30pm
Originally posted by SuperBiasedMan

Pixelart_kid, I recommend either asking for some portion of the money before starting work.Or decide to deliver work in batches. For example, if you're doing 40 sprites in total, do 10 first and when those 10 are paid for you start the next 10 sprites and so on.If someone wants to hire you but is unhappy with that arrangement then that could mean they would be difficult about money after the work is done too.(Though, I would warn you not to sound like you're suspicious of them when you suggest one of these payment systems. Just make it clear that it's standard practice and a fairer system)



Yes i know,I tried to ask half the advance, but to no avail, I spend only 10 usd, I thought that this was going to pay what we agreed, but did not.

Thank you Super BisasedMan.
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Quote Shadowfox Replybullet Posted: 09 December 2013 at 3:17pm
Not sure why but I really enjoy reading this thread lol
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Thu
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Quote Thu Replybullet Posted: 11 December 2013 at 4:56am
Name: Josh Griffith
Game: Topia online
Game site: http://www.topiaonline.com/
E-mail: joshrmt@gmail.com

Simple freelance case, when he had to pay, he fired me and said classic words "we will not use your content" and deleted my dropbox folder with my content. For the last content package he had to pay 390usd, but he did not do that.

He is not only bad client, he is a bad game developer. He was asking me to do animations with some special strange mechanichs(Josh believed that this will make animations good). He was approving my works, but a few weeks ago he started blaming me and saying that my content has very bad quality. He always ask for fixes and pay very small amounts of money, no matter is that fixes are global or small. It was very hard to work with this man, because he always blames me and does not understand what really need himself. Hard to understand position of this guy.

Very very bad experience.
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Pixelart_kid
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Quote Pixelart_kid Replybullet Posted: 11 December 2013 at 3:57pm
@Thu Do you even gave you an advance payment?.
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Thu
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Quote Thu Replybullet Posted: 12 December 2013 at 8:45am
No.
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Quote phraktol Replybullet Posted: 22 December 2013 at 1:35pm
I've been a freelance graphic designer for many years now, though I work on Logos/Flyers and the like, the mechanics of freelance business still apply here.

A) It's ok to do a couple of 'example' designs, maybe 1 or 2 designs per the clients specs (if they don't like it, you can always use it in your portfolio anyways.)

B) You should ALWAYS get 50% down payment on a contracted job. Once they say "Yes, I'd like to hire you for the job" You should immediately mention that you require 50% down payment, this way you know your time is valued, even if they back out in the end, you still put in time and effort and should be compensated for such. Any client that isn't ok with that isn't worth your time, as they are likely just fishing for ideas to steal, or will just give you a hard time in payment anyways.

C) Don't cut yourself short. As an artist, and especially if you have a strong portfolio, you should have a general concept of the value of your time. Be clear and honest with your clients, and discuss your expectations as well as theirs, to ensure that you're all on the same page. Clear and concise communication is important in the beginning stages of contracted art.

I Would say get a written contract as well, but I rarely do. With a 50% down payment, and clear email discussion of each parties expectations, you'll have enough of a 'written contract' to cover yourself should legal issues arise (breach of contract, ect).

I feel it is important as an artist to respect your trade, and to value your time, as your time IS valuable.

Above I read something about "Not buying a car if it won't start" and that's a very different ideal than working with art, and therefor a poor analogy. Artists put in TIME, TIME has VALUE.

remember artists: respect your craft and value it as it should be valued.

EDIT** A couple other things I thought about after writing this which are important:

Always put a watermark on your designs (Even if you've received a down payment) and never deliver the final designs unwatermarked until you've received your full payment :)

Edited by phraktol - 22 December 2013 at 2:46pm
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Quote rioneye Replybullet Posted: 01 March 2014 at 1:33pm
Name: Thu (aka Valery kim)
Request: We asked for 6 overworld map tilesets and agreed on $75/tileset

Case:
I contacted Valery on Jan. 24th 2014 asking if she could make some tilesets for our game (similar to this post). She responded by saying she could and that she could work very quickly, but I would have to pay 1/3 upfront.

After talking about the general work, I sent her a contract to sign. I received the signed contract one week later (Jan. 31), and 3 days later (Feb. 2) I sent an upfront payment of $75 via Western Union. At that point I expected her to start working very quickly considering the she herself said that she could get all the work done very quickly.

Unfortunately WU takes some time before the money gets transferred and she had stated that she would not work until she received the payment. I was fine with that but I suggested that she go through the asset list I sent her and ask me any question before hand.

The money arrived on Feb. 6 I didn't hear back from Valery until Feb. 10. She explained that her laptop was giving her issues and that she did not have time to work. She then said that she could work that night and start making progress. The next day I asked for a timeline of when she could finish the assets and received no response. Then on Feb. 12 she responded by saying her laptop was still giving her problems. She said she would have it sorted out soon and would be able to finish all of the assets I sent by the end of the next day (Feb. 13). On Feb. 14 she got back saying that the repair took a bit longer and that she would try to finish the following day. I contacted her on Feb. 15,16, and 17 and finally heard back on the 17th. She said that she finally finished the laptop repair, but still did not provide a timeline.

And that was the last I heard from Valery. I contacted her several times (via email, skype, sms) and received no response. I think it is a shame since her portfolio is really nice and well done, and she seemed professional. The worst aspect was the poor communication. I kept getting short sentences or one word answers when I felt that more detailed explanations were needed to explain the situation.

If you work with Valery, I would suggest not paying upfront especially since it is through Western Union, and you have no way to get that money back if the deal turns bad.
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Quote Arpo78 Replybullet Posted: 06 March 2014 at 4:19am
I've been working with my employer for the last 2 years.
with out inconviniences. It's hard to find good artists and employers as well when it comes to freelance contracts. but judging by your coments you tryed to work with some one who probably thinks tomuch of it self and gets pissed when some one else doesn't agree.

that's why experiences should allways be asked for with references included if you plan to pay for work.

sometimes i feel that people here think cuz it's pixel art it shouldn't be taken seriously or sometimes employers see it as someone who does it as a hobby. but the truth is that some of us make a living out of pixel art and those someones have work feedbacks, resumes, portafolios and take their work with seriousness ,word and respect.

Like me
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Quote Pixelart_kid Replybullet Posted: 05 April 2014 at 1:07pm
I agree with you, many people think that being a work of pixels does not require much effort and many take it as a hobby, when doing work in pixels requires much effort, work and passion, for my, working with pixels is a job that requires taken seriously to give customers the excellent results, especially if this will be published commercially, either in a game, video, etc..

I think an artist who appreciates a job in pixels, for example, the art of Gods or Megaman X had challenge with limited color palette for systems, asset levels adaptations of art, It is no small job.

Even in our time, working with pixels is still a challenge, how to work with android devices ,for example, the amount of frame for animation, the amounts of asset art, you can greatly influence a project and both artist and developers must work together to solve this.


Edited by Pixelart_kid - 05 April 2014 at 1:11pm
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Gene Starwind
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Quote Gene Starwind Replybullet Posted: 21 April 2014 at 2:08am
I posted a job offer. Joshua Astorian was one of the people who replied to me. Naturally, I was very impressed by his portfolio. However, before handing over my cash I decided to look around for his name, also noticing the one reply to my thread. Any success stories with this guy recently? I know he was homeless about six years ago. Whilst I can't say he is financially stable, I can say that he seems to be doing a lot better now and that he might be a "house husband". He seems to stay at home a lot, therefore he currently has no excuse to not be punctual.

I'm still worried about paying the guy even though his work is excellent. Are people still calling him a scammer? I really do want to hire the guy, but I certainly have the right to ask about this and also to deny upfront payment. He'd have to take my word on this, because it seems a lot of unsatisfied customers took his.
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showtime
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Quote showtime Replybullet Posted: 21 April 2014 at 9:11am
Hey Gene Starwind, check out this recent thread, you will find it very relevant.
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nvision
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Quote nvision Replybullet Posted: 25 April 2014 at 9:23pm
Well, a little persistence and posturing paid off, and I've resolved my issue. Again, don't be stupid like me and get it in writing before you start producing...   

Edited by nvision - 28 April 2014 at 12:59pm
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buprettyinpink
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Quote buprettyinpink Replybullet Posted: 14 July 2014 at 1:14pm
name of the client: Lasko1404 lasko1909@gmail.com Josh Soltys
Topic: http://www.pixeljoint.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=19025&KW=zombie
case:
Didn't get terribly far into the game, but finished the animations for a character, probably 20ish frames and the guy completely disapeared after having been extremely quick to communicate.  Sent and invoice for the work completed and haven't heard from the guy since.
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Quote furansu Replybullet Posted: 17 July 2014 at 5:46am
Name of the client: DutchPottery / Kevin de Ruiter <kevin-deruiter@live.nl>/ Skype ID: kevin.de.ruiter
Topic: [PAID"> Looking for a long term pixel artist.
Case:I've agreed to his terms in working $10/hour since 7/17 to 7/14. I've make note to myself and him also how many hours a day I've spent working on his art request. We were all communicating intensely via Skype messages and e-mails until he decided to disappear without any notice starting from Saturday 7/12. He did not reply to my e-mails, not even replying to Skype messages, not to mention didn't answer my Skype calls also. Just being silent all of a sudden. He's online on Skype but always using 'away' status. But sometimes changed to 'away (on a mobile device)'. I know he's online but no word comes from him regarding our agreed work. Then I billed him via PayPal, sent him an invoice he should have paid for work I've did for him in the past 8 days (7/7 to 7/14). But my PayPal invoice was canceled by him, and he put a note in the canceled invoice:
Note from Kevin de Ruiter
"I have always had good
intentions, however after you've ignored my pleas about changing things
about the base, such as it's skin tone I wasn't satisfied, and I let you
know that. Yet you continued and somehow magically spent 40 hours on
something I wasn't satisfied with. Not only was I not satisfied with the
skin tone, but also not with the animations.

I'm starting to doubt whether that portfolio is really yours or not,
because I dont think so.

I'm afraid that I'm not going to pay 440,- for something thats not only
lacking quality, but also something I wont ever use. You also ignored my
pleas, and I find this a bit of a scam if I must be honest.

Hope I've informed you enough and I hope both of us can move on with our
lives."


Then when I checked back on my Skype, he already removed me from his contact list, without even said anything, though he was always online on Skype all this time until he canceled my invoice and send me that note.I'm shocked and puzzled. For those days I've worked with intense communication, he did not complain about anything. But keep changing his opinion every single day, keep me doing a new pixel base every time he already approved the base on the previous day. And without any communication or explanation he just decided on his terms that I sucked, he was tricked and will not going to pay me for all that work he put me through. He was also posting the job offers in Pixelation (wayofthepixel.net) by the name: Dutch
Thread link:
[URL=http://wayofthepixel.net/index.php?topic=16855.0][PAID] Looking for a pixel artist. URL]
I will open everything to moderators regarding my e-mail conversation and Skype message archive if needed.



Edited by furansu - 18 October 2014 at 6:52am
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Quote Pixelart_kid Replybullet Posted: 24 July 2014 at 9:59am
I believe the problems of these clients is that they are mostly very young people (students) who publish a job without having a capital and who want to develop games, however most repent and to see that they can not pay leave contact.

Possibly most of these people think that a 2D game (using Pixel art is very easy to develop or it will be very cheap.), but when they realize how hard it is, they get frustrated and boring, leaving all the "project" in the trash .

I think it should be a rule where customers have to publish a CV, project development website or blog, if they have worked before or not in game development, etc.

Cheers!!

Edited by Pixelart_kid - 24 July 2014 at 10:00am
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bluedxca93
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Quote bluedxca93 Replybullet Posted: 04 September 2014 at 11:19pm
Hi,
on the other hand it is hard for a student like me to get any with graphic/design related things paid.
 I would be very happy to design a small simple  image (640x480 max)  even if it take me some hours. I would  accept pay after deliviering the image.

And i also have to say that that some ( i hope few) poeple who do post job offers here, even small ones don`t respond even if its  unpaid .

CV is not so an good idea. You do know why. You  schouldn' t judge the persons by their CVS and their former experience. I do know some non pixel artist with experience, and their artwork is not getting better with time. However the persons who make the job offers could post their CV if they want to , to prove that they are serious.

regards bluedxca93
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furansu
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Quote furansu Replybullet Posted: 18 October 2014 at 6:37am
Wow, I'm amazed by the guy who I was reported few months ago just return to the forum with a different username! BE CAREFUL fellow pixel artists, I warned you!
Here is the Job Offer thread he made:
[PAID"> Looking for a pixel artist
Now he is using username: Potteric
Look at his real name, Kevin de Ruiter
Now, the previous username he's using is DutchPottery. Now his current username is: Potteric
How uncreative of him :p
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Arkan85
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Quote Arkan85 Replybullet Posted: 30 October 2014 at 4:50am
Client: Mawd A.K.A. Kyle Hagen
Details: Did not pay for commissioned work
Thread: http://www.pixeljoint.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=19684&KW=

I waited two months since the end of my work. In this time I sent him e-mails that he just ignored. I don't know if he got the work from something else too, because he don't answer my mails.

I am a very kind person but I wanted at least to know why I wasted these hours of work...


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Thu
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Quote Thu Replybullet Posted: 14 March 2015 at 1:37pm
Chance Adamson
http://www.indiedb.com/games/severed-world

http://www.pixeljoint.com/p/47524.htm

Did not paid money for a first run. Firstly he hired me. Then send an asset list in which was said that I had to do around 12-15 animations with sprite itself in 3 directions in 2 hours. I noticed Chance that I will try to fit estimates. After spending 4 hours of work I was comepletly sure that I can not do this in that estimates. I have noticed Chance. After that we decided that I should stop. Then he said that he will pay me for that time. He said me to throw my paypal account, but I asked to wait for one-two days I was need to check my account and credit card. When I checked my card and everything were right I have said that he can send me money. After this moment he started dissapearing, I was not able to normally talk, he was always dissapearing, saying some kind of "I have a dinner, will be online in a few hours". After that he appears only on the next day.
When I started normal talk, he said that he wouldnt pay me that amount, He cant believe that I can spend so much time for that amount (15 sprited + 1 animation). He came up with some unexisted in our dialogue agreement that he should pay only for "usable" content. My content is usable, art that I have done is good-looking and fits already used game style.

I am so much offended with this behavior.

I do not recommend Chance Adamson as safe employer. He has decieved me.

I will delete this when he will pay me my money for a time that I have spent on him.

Thank for an attention.
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Quote Iscalio Replybullet Posted: 13 June 2015 at 8:29am
Client: Droth (signed emails as Nick)
Email:Nooam 'ra <insidious.droth@gmail.com>
Forum Thread(s): Seems to have disappeared from forums.
TL;DR: Did not pay for delivered work or give feedback and then disappeared.

Started PM
He wanted me to work on an Orc Portrait and 100 animation frames. He asked for a price which I quoted to him based on an hours breakdown. He did not negotiate or otherwise question my quote, but had me start working. No timeline was suggested.

3/15 - sent a page of a variety of best portrait drawings as he had not given much direction.

Response:
"Those are some great sketches, and I had a hard time choosing which one I liked most!
Number 5 would probably suit the game best, so I'll go with that."

3/22 - sent an about 2/3 complete large pixel portrait to show progress.

Response:
"This is really coming together nicely, I am so impressed! I think the background would be better if it was transparent, but I could always change that to save you the hassle. Everything you're doing is great, so just go ahead with whatever you have in mind for the armour, as you probably have more of an idea.
Keep up the great work!
Excited to see what you come up with."

3/24 - sent completed portrait

Response:
"Thanks, this looks perfect!
I can't wait for the small character version."

4/1 - sent an email to him asking for direction regarding the sprite. Did not receive a response.

4/7 - sent him an email stating I was going to go on ahead with a variety of experiment styles since he hadn't asked I aim for any specific sprite style(s).

4/9 - delivered a variety of drawings of different proportions and styles.

Response:
"Sorry that I haven't been contacting you recently. I've been caught up with some work I needed to do.
As for the designs, I really like number two.
This is the first sprite that is going to be done, so I don't know how many pixels it should overlap, I was hoping you could use your knowledge."

etc etc...

"I love how this is coming along!"

"I see, you are correct. I say keep the head how big it was."

through 4/21 - sent emails back and forth as I completed animations to clarify various things.

Response:
"These are exactly what I had in mind thanks! Looking forward to the finished product.
It's just a face wince.
Good idea with the side view, I hadn't thought of that."

4/29 - he emailed me as below...

"I haven't heard from you for a while.
I really love what you've done so far and if you could add it in to a big sheet, preferably the template I sent you to test would be brilliant.
I may even be able to give you access to the game if you would like."

4/29 - responded same day to give him updates and attached image progress

5/5 - sent him more updates and questions for next frames

5/6 - he sent an email to me
"Very busy with work right now. Just saying I got the emails and I'm replying as soon as I can."

5/14 - I asked about the possibility of him paying me the first half of our agreed amount, or what he might consider fair, as I'd delivered the large portrait and a chunk of the animation frames.
I asked for more information about the game.

5/20 - sent him an update with nearly all animation frames complete minus any feedback or tweaks. Asked for him to contact me with any edits he felt things needed so I could finalize the frames.

5/27 - sent him another update with lots of polish fixes.
Asked him to contact me and insinuated it was a bit unprofessional to disappear for 3+ weeks and if he had a problem he needed to let me know. Also asked for another contact that he would check regularly if he wasn't able to check on email regularly.

I've had no response from him since the quick email on 5/6/15. I'm hoping he responds, but I have no idea whether he's extremely busy or just decided to skip out on the large amount of money that he'd owe me for the work. As his forum threads have disappeared I'm afraid he might have just skipped out? I'll be quite happy to take this down if he responds, but felt at this point I should post here.

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Quote A2J2TIWARI Replybullet Posted: 22 June 2015 at 11:34am
I hold grudges against the same person as Iscalio. The person named Droth added me on skype as I applied for the job offer. I kept making stuff for him until he was satisfied and said it looked perfect. I sent him the items expecting him to send money as he said he didnt have an account on Paypal. I agreed thinking that as I had befriended him and we had trust, he would send money. The next moment I see he unfriended me and blocked me on Skype.

The work was worth only $15 but still...I do not like such attitude as it affects my attitude for future clients.
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Quote Iscalio Replybullet Posted: 10 September 2015 at 6:23pm
I think I get all of them...

Client: "Heali" (Matt Grey)
Email: <matt.epimetheus@gmail.com>
Forum Threads:
Related thread...
http://pixeljoint.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=24205
Other Heali threads...
http://pixeljoint.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=24456
http://pixeljoint.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=23781

********************************

I spoke with him via forum messages and then email chain and discussed a pricing which he said was a little steeper than he expected, but he was sure it would be fine.

I completed a couple of things for him to show that I could deliver solid assets. Then when I asked for a list of work so I could complete things quickly, and attempted to discuss how he would pay me...he disappeared.

I haven't heard from him in over a month.

Related art:

Updated someone else's female ninja head art for him (he said his previous artist had gone on maternity leave)
http://s3.postimg.org/8bnp1dg8z/headfix2_display_4x.png

Created a shogun helm, gas mask combo with other suggested futuristic reference from him.
http://s7.postimg.org/ymusfghiz/Hat_Template2_4x.png

I also completed related sketches and color comps.

Emails are available if anyone wants further proof.
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Quote Iscalio Replybullet Posted: 23 September 2015 at 9:43pm
Another disappearance...

Client: Gregory Rogers
Email: gregoryrogers712@gmail.com
Forum Threads: none

**********************

This person contacted me via email saying that they'd seen my work on Pixel Joint and asking if I could "perfect upon" 120 icons for a game forum.

After clarifying what they needed and getting samples of the old icons I worked out a rate that he agreed to and gave samples of finished icons that he was quite happy with.

We agreed I'd finish 25 icons, then I would meet with "Maya", who was in charge of the project I guess, and I assumed get any necessary feedback for alterations before proceeding further.

I completed 38 icons within 2-3 days and emailed him that I'd completed much more than 25%+ of the total and that I'd like any further feedback and suggested he now pay the first 25% of the agreed sum and then 25% after I delivered each future 25%.

I have now sent him 3 emails and he has not responded in about 2 weeks despite supposedly being in a hurry to see the work complete.
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Quote Matwek Replybullet Posted: 31 October 2015 at 8:04am
Not really a grievance but I didn't really know where else to post this.
I would have posted this in the topic in question but I didn't want to come across as confrontational

I've noticed recently that there has been a lot of 'bumping' in the portfolio sub-forum.
I fully understand that if you work full-time as a freelance artist then you need all the jobs you can get, and so you will often update your portfolio, but bumping your topic just to put it back at the top of the feed seems a little disrespectful to other artists posting their portfolios.

I would say a portfolio update once a week seems a little excessive, although understandable, but a topic bump everytime you see someone else has jump above you in the feed is a little rude.
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