WIP (Work In Progress)
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Super17
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Quote Super17 Replybullet Topic: Dryad
    Posted: 05 January 2012 at 5:40pm
My last piece Sneaky Cat got some criticism which I could have improved easily at an earlier stage. So I decided to post the WIP of my recent pixalart to avoid some unnecessary work.
To the piece itself: I tried to combine some things I really like to pixel or would like to pixel: Jungle girl, tight clothing, dryads, trees and two lightsources. (Just the old man in my gallery isn't following one of this points, lol )
Because I adore this piece from campbell, I wanted to create something simular, taking his piece as reference.

But enough boring facts, here is the WIP:


I always start with the face, so its almost done. Tell my what you think about the lightning, anatomy, composition and so on.

The outlines and sketchy rendering was quickly drawn with my tablet.
The palette is actually the same which I used for Sneaky Cat (but I don't use all colors in both pieces, e.g. 15 for the dryad now):



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PixelSnader
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Quote PixelSnader Replybullet Posted: 05 January 2012 at 6:25pm
Right upper arm is too long, lower arm too short. If she's leaning on the trunk behind her with it, the elbow should be bent. In any case, it's a pretty uncomfortable position for the arm.

Her boobs and her leg are at an angle of 90 degrees. Try doing that. It's impossible without forcing your spine, and even then I only get to about 75-80 degrees. Anyway, very much not a pose someone would naturally stand in.

Her hand is on the tree (or isn't it?) mere inches away from her foot. Go lean with your back and left foot against a wall, then reach for that foot with your right hand. Comfy pose?

This can all be avoided by trying a pose (doesn't have to be a 100% match) with your own body. Assuming you're in decent health this should be accurate enough for realism. If you can't do it, it's not comfortable even for very flexible people.

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Super17
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Quote Super17 Replybullet Posted: 05 January 2012 at 6:44pm
Thanks a lot, sounds pretty plausible and now very obvious what you said.  (Always good if someone looks at the piece who doesn't know it for plenty of hours ) I just don't understand the following sentence:
Her boobs and her leg are at an angle of 90 degrees.
Can you make this more clear, maybe with a sketch?
And:
his can all be avoided by trying a pose (doesn't have to be a 100% match) with your own body.
Good idea, but it's sometimes really difficult to imagine your own pose to the picture (I tried to hold my legs in this position, don't know if it helped :D) 
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jalonso
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Quote jalonso Replybullet Posted: 05 January 2012 at 7:53pm
Colors are lovely...whose palette is that?

I totally see what snader mentions and while I agree. You might want to first make a dupe of this file and try throwing greenery so she is inside the bush more and place leaves in the problem areas. Not to cover them entirely but to soften the 'impossibiltiy'. Maybe a leaf or vine over her thigh can solve something? I'm thinking big lush and tropical greens like THIS or something like THIS but not covering her too much just here and there.
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Quote PixelSnader Replybullet Posted: 05 January 2012 at 8:28pm

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jeremy
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Quote jeremy Replybullet Posted: 05 January 2012 at 8:38pm
is the red hair?

if so, that's a tiny (Liefeldesque even) waist :L

Great pixelling though :)
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Super17
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Quote Super17 Replybullet Posted: 05 January 2012 at 9:19pm
@ jalonso: I actually made this palette, thanks for the compliment! About the greenery: Don't thought of this possibility, but I don't want to hide something which is wrong (just if it's completely covered)  But I will add some leafs in general I think.

@ snader: Thanks again, but what have the boobs to do with that?

@ Jeremy: Thanks. The left red is hair, but not the right, so it's a normal waist I hope.
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Super17
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Quote Super17 Replybullet Posted: 05 January 2012 at 10:21pm
Update:


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jalonso
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Quote jalonso Replybullet Posted: 06 January 2012 at 6:53am
I did regret my comment once posted
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Zeratanus
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Quote Zeratanus Replybullet Posted: 06 January 2012 at 2:15pm
I agree with the twist of the body being too much to look natural. individually, the top half and the bottom half both look good, but together it looks incredibly uncomfortable at best.
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Super17
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Quote Super17 Replybullet Posted: 06 January 2012 at 2:59pm
Is this still a problem after the update?
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shampoop
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Quote shampoop Replybullet Posted: 06 January 2012 at 3:00pm
I'm not sure he is going for natural. This reminds me of how both new and old Marvel comics display women. It might seem weird because the hips and chest are emphasized and we are more used to seeing the ass and chest.

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Super17
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Quote Super17 Replybullet Posted: 06 January 2012 at 4:03pm
Well, yes, I'm a great fan of that comic style 
So it's a compliment for me if it reminds you of Marvel.

And the proportions are not realistic, that's right, but I don't want that it looks weird or completely wrong.

How about this:


The lightnig and position is off now, just want to show the pose.
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PixelSnader
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Quote PixelSnader Replybullet Posted: 06 January 2012 at 5:37pm
Well, boobs, or ribcage, or whatever you'd like to call it. Basically the angle of rotation of the torso vs. the leg is too strong. Even in that anime statuette the angle is only about 45-60 degrees, and that's looking a bit iffy.


The current pose is a lot better, but you'll have to change the BG a bit so she can actually hang on the vine [which then needs a ( shape instead of )] and rest her feet properly. But you probably figured that out already.

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Zeratanus
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Quote Zeratanus Replybullet Posted: 07 January 2012 at 5:55pm
That is definitely a much more natural looking pose. Looks a whole lot better in my opinion.



As for my thoughts on those bottom two marvel pics - aside from the right one not being that big of a turn and the other I'd still argue is freaky looking, both of them are rather importantly action poses. They are in the middle of some dynamic movement, where this Dryad is at rest (more or less). That sort of pose may be possible as part of a full movement, but looks completely wrong as a pose to actually stay in for any period of time.
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Super17
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Quote Super17 Replybullet Posted: 07 January 2012 at 9:41pm
Thanks for the comments.
Somehow I liked the old one more at first, but I'm quite happy with the new one now.

Update:


Fixed shadows and the background. Also some small edits done.
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Zeratanus
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Quote Zeratanus Replybullet Posted: 07 January 2012 at 10:56pm
Definitely looking good :D

just my opinion, but I think the position of the girl in the quick edit you made earlier was more interesting, with her off to the right side, but it'd probably necessitate putting more subject matter in the rest of it (plantlife, whateva) on the bottom/bottom left. Looks more like a scene than an illustration of a woman.

But thats entirely opinion there~
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King of Games
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Quote King of Games Replybullet Posted: 08 January 2012 at 1:20am
That bent knee looks super weird. Her leg seems too short, which seems to be a problem stemming from fore-shortening. The knee should come out more so the length spatially matches her other leg.
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Quote Super17 Replybullet Posted: 09 January 2012 at 3:33pm
@ King of Games: Thanks for help, but I don't hope it really looks "super weird", was maybe a bid wrong, yes.

Update:



-Knee reworked
-Image size adjusted to 460*250 (Little bit higher, less width)
-Some details added
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mdog95
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Quote mdog95 Replybullet Posted: 09 January 2012 at 4:08pm


That part bugs me. Maybe put a curve in the highlight. or something.

Edited by mdog95 - 09 January 2012 at 4:08pm
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Super17
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Quote Super17 Replybullet Posted: 11 January 2012 at 7:29pm
Yea, the right foot was a thorn in my side, reworked now (Really rough though).

Update:


I removed the background now, bugs me a bit, will add a new one later.
Leaves also still very rough.
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Manupix
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Quote Manupix Replybullet Posted: 11 January 2012 at 10:32pm
I'm no anatomy expert, but I think that:
- the folded leg should be thicker because of foreshortening (thigh) and how volume redistributes when limbs fold (hip, knee);
- the feet look small.
Also, the boobs look unhealthily (?) big on an unhealthily narrow torso. This could be a matter of personal taste more than anatomy though ;)
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Quote Super17 Replybullet Posted: 12 January 2012 at 10:34am
Thanks for the answer.
- Well, I think you didn't see that much voulme redistributes from this point of view, would be look like more if she would bent the other knee. But I did some small changes.
- Yes... Increased the size a bit.
- The boobs looked bigger after the shading, lol. But it's also a bit too much for my taste, as I see this now. Same for the torso and hips.

Small edit:



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baah
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Quote baah Replybullet Posted: 12 January 2012 at 2:25pm
I won't gave any advice, just want to say WAOW! Impressive work!
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unimportant
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Quote unimportant Replybullet Posted: 12 January 2012 at 10:13pm
I think the only thing that bothers me anatomy-wise is that the knee of the leg that's not folded is "facing"to her center but her foot is not... I just tried making the same pose and failed miserably, it seems legs don't work that way...

Also, this is more of a personal taste... but the hand in her leg would look a lot more natural if it was following the direction of the leg and the same goes for the other foot... I made a quick edit to explain, I hope you don't mind...


But actually I wanted to comment to tell you that my mind is blown by this... when I opened the file and saw hat you only used 16 colors my jaw dropped and the way you made the texture in her face, chest and shoulder is incredible... I'm really excited to see this finished <3
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Quote Super17 Replybullet Posted: 13 January 2012 at 9:48am
@ baah: Thanks 

@ unimportant: I have to agree about the right knee, I noticed that yesterday too. Will rework it soon.
And I think that your foot works good, maybe I also will change this, thanks for the advice. But I really like the left hand, I think it looks quite natural too

But actually I wanted to comment to tell you that my mind is blown by this... when I opened the file and saw hat you only used 16 colors my jaw dropped and the way you made the texture in her face, chest and shoulder is incredible... I'm really excited to see this finished <3
Thanks so much! But should be 15 colors (14 + alpha) right now 
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Christoballs
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Quote Christoballs Replybullet Posted: 15 January 2012 at 8:56am
Hey there, I like where this is going except I had some issues with the pose and more specifically the legs, which didn't seem plausible, breaking the illusion of space.
I don't know what you want this dryad to say, but I changed the body language slightly. I'm also wondering if giving bark effects on various parts of her body would be a bad idea, because it's not something that I'd assimilate to the grace of a woman/dryad.
How about you put some blossom in her hair? :)


Looking forward to the final result!
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Quote Super17 Replybullet Posted: 15 January 2012 at 4:34pm
Hello Christoballs, thanks for the detailed suggestions you made!
I think the greatest problem of the pose are the legs, but I don't find any other reference for it... Never really satisfied with the result. Maybe I will change the legs completely, because I wanted a similar pose like this, but didn't wanted to copy it.
Hm, and your sketch isn't my intent to show, reminds of paintings by Peter Paul Rubens, I think I drew the hips too bulky (but you used an old version, adjusted the hips, waist and breast already a bit as you can see on the latest picture posted here). I think the picture has no propper intention, just wanted to pixel a sexy jungle dryad 
Regarding the bark effect, I like the contrast between the grace of a woman (as you said) and the rawness of bark. And it's just on some parts of the body right now because it's simply not finished, the whole skin will have this texture.
And blossoms will definitely addad to the hair!


Edited by Super17 - 15 January 2012 at 4:34pm
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Quote Manupix Replybullet Posted: 16 January 2012 at 2:44pm
I think Christoballs' edit points at some very real problems in your version. You might find her upper thighs a bit heavy, and don't necessarily have to follow that, but consider:
1- the underlying bone structure. By comparing both images side by side it becomes obvious where yours goes wrong, in the whole spine and pelvis areas.
2- the thickening of her right folded leg that I mentioned before.

The DA ref you linked does not feature this bulging, and for this reason it is anatomically wrong. It sure looks sexy but when you're aware of the issue, it becomes slightly unsettling to look at.
This is a general issue with refs: some may be unreliable in invisible ways! It is almost certain that the artist is aware of the issue and that he might have decided to deliberately ignore anatomy to achieve the desired look. Nothing wrong with that of course as long as it is a conscious choice, but it destroys the potential of this image as a ref. Better use plain photographs than highly elaborate illos, at least you're sure to reference basic nature and not another artist's advanced technique ;)



Edited by Manupix - 16 January 2012 at 2:46pm
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Super17
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Quote Super17 Replybullet Posted: 24 January 2012 at 6:01pm
Thanks again Manupix and Christoballs, you where a great help overall.

And about the DA ref: You are absolutely right. The longer I study it, the more I see what you pointed out. Well, as I said, I like the style, but was a bit naive to take this as a anatomically reference.
Originally posted by Manupix

Better use plain photographs than highly elaborate illos, at least you're sure to reference basic nature and not another artist's advanced technique ;)
That's it. Feeling a bit foolish in the end now, but it's ok, I learned from it

Update:

How about that?
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Quote Manupix Replybullet Posted: 26 January 2012 at 2:12pm
Glad to read that =)

It's much better, but I think it's still physically wrong somewhere. Try the pose: if her weight is on her right leg as it seems, her right hip should be raised and the pelvis consequently leans the other way.
I guess it would help to see the physics if you blocked out roughly the elements she rests both feet on.
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