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Limes
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Quote Limes Replybullet Posted: 26 June 2014 at 1:15am
Yes I can see that fast thrust at the end... I don't know about rotating the shield the full 90 degrees maybe that is too much.
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AshCrimson
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Quote AshCrimson Replybullet Posted: 26 June 2014 at 8:29am
Thanks for the comment limes; I might try experimenting with him moving the shield slightly rather than a full 90's degree, maybe just keep have him turning it 45 degrees, like he does before it turns it fully 90 degrees.

Here's a quick update:



Tried reducing the sliding even more, so he's jumping back to the place he originally was. Tried also making the feet move less randomly, that one leg only moves at one time (unless he's jumping or landing).

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inphy
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Quote inphy Replybullet Posted: 26 June 2014 at 9:50am
The way you have the arm bend looks like he's either bending it in front of his stomach, which would make sense if it were a two-handed thrust from the right side, or it's dislocated from the elbow. Remember that you can rotate the torso too; how would you make a strong punch or a thrust without having your body rotate?

You don't also have to explicitly draw the arm all the time. It's fine if it's "hidden" behind the body during a rotation, we learn object permanence as 8-12 month olds. ;)

I'd still say removing the soccer ball from the armpit (making him less swole) and rotating the torso a bit would make it look more natural. All the characters are kind of stiff, whereas real people rotate and lean and twist and whatnot. Slightly exaggarated quick edit:



When animating human movement and figuring out what to rotate and how much, go in front of a mirror and try the move out yourself.


Edited by inphy - 26 June 2014 at 9:53am
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AshCrimson
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Quote AshCrimson Replybullet Posted: 26 June 2014 at 11:28am
Originally posted by inphy

The way you have the arm bend looks like he's either bending it in front of his stomach, which would make sense if it were a two-handed thrust from the right side, or it's dislocated from the elbow. Remember that you can rotate the torso too; how would you make a strong punch or a thrust without having your body rotate?

You don't also have to explicitly draw the arm all the time. It's fine if it's "hidden" behind the body during a rotation, we learn object permanence as 8-12 month olds. ;)

I'd still say removing the soccer ball from the armpit (making him less swole) and rotating the torso a bit would make it look more natural. All the characters are kind of stiff, whereas real people rotate and lean and twist and whatnot. Slightly exaggarated quick edit:



When animating human movement and figuring out what to rotate and how much, go in front of a mirror and try the move out yourself.


Thanks yet again the edit!

I tried applying what you said, i fear i may have uh messed up or got what you said wrong:



I wanted him to twist his torso, like you said so as to imply power behind his thrusting, but i may have over done it.


Edited by AshCrimson - 26 June 2014 at 11:29am
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felchqueen
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Quote felchqueen Replybullet Posted: 26 June 2014 at 12:40pm
In that last update it looks like at the very last frame we're viewing him from behind but his arms have switched, the head should be turning towards the viewer as he lunges.
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AshCrimson
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Quote AshCrimson Replybullet Posted: 26 June 2014 at 1:54pm
Are you sure? I tried doing that, but it ended up looking weird.

Update; tried positioning the shield in an appropriate place when he twists:



I also reduced the twist in his head slightly.
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inphy
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Quote inphy Replybullet Posted: 26 June 2014 at 2:29pm
You need to understand the motion before you can start applying it, don't just apply for the sake of applying. I mean, going in front of a mirror was no joke. Pull your arm back to charge, and then thrust it forward. How does your torso move? How do your arms move (not just the one wielding the weapon, they're both connected to the torso after all)? Assuming you are keeping your eyes on the target, how does your head move? The motion won't look right until you know what the motion actually is.

With that rotation, it looks like he's stabbing to the side, right next to the target but not at it:




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AshCrimson
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Quote AshCrimson Replybullet Posted: 26 June 2014 at 3:06pm
Thanks again for your patience Inphy. I must confess i do feel like i may have bitten off more than i can chew, but i am going to keep trying my hand at this.

I see what you mean about the mirror, i tired it and i realized my head doesn't actually go the way i thought it did. Could that be why it looks like he's thrusting to the side, rather than straight ahead? Or is the way the chest moves?

Tried another edit, may have exaggerated the movement though:




Edited by AshCrimson - 26 June 2014 at 3:52pm
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inphy
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Quote inphy Replybullet Posted: 27 June 2014 at 9:51am
It looks nicer I think, but I don't know what other advice I can give, except stress that you just have to understand how the movement you want to do works in the first place. Like, understand how the body contorts and what underhand spear combat is like, before you sit down to put it into pixels. Look at anatomy, look at sprinting videos, look at fencing videos, spear combat re-enactment videos, etc.

For example, if you were making a boxer throw a couple of punches, sure, you could just extend the arms a bit to make it kind of look like a punch.. or you could look at boxing videos and see the footwork, how they build up the strength to each punch with the body, and such to really nail it down.

That said, I'm not sure why the spear is moving higher in the end when it's already extended fully.

Edited by inphy - 27 June 2014 at 9:54am
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AshCrimson
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Quote AshCrimson Replybullet Posted: 28 June 2014 at 8:19am
Will do so Inphy!

Ive decided to start re-working the walking animation for the animation i posted previous (currently doing it on a different base for clarity's sake).



I know the body should be more animated as well, but at this point i am focusing solely on the legs.

It's currently 14 frames, although it could obviously be limited to 8.

Here's a swordsman with the updated walk animation:



Had to extend the number of frames so he could fully rotate his legs without running into the leg-flipping problem. I'm hoping the animation doesn't suffer for it. Also increased speed of certain frames (most noticeably when he's raising his sword)but if it takes away from it, i'll put them back to their original speed.

Also im aware the hop looks weird/impossible. Im not sure what to do with it atm.

I was also thinking of maybe delaying the actual attack until he's further across the screen.

Like so:



I am worried it might lose it's momentum and look slow now however.
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Quote AshCrimson Replybullet Posted: 28 June 2014 at 4:04pm
Now with stationary version because he seems to be moving too much and the big hop backwards is sort of awkward:



Also has an extra blur-trail on the frame just before the attack.

Edit:

Small update on the sword guy:



I was thinking of using this as the basis of other melee attacks, would that be reasonable? Obviously there would be some changes depending on the size of the character and the weapon used.

Also tried modifying the spear-guy with what i have learnt so far.



Hopefully the leg movement is consistent now.


Edited by AshCrimson - 29 June 2014 at 2:00am
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Quote AshCrimson Replybullet Posted: 04 July 2014 at 3:59am
Practicing rotating and moving arms (as well as other limbs) on a few bases:



Also tried my hand at foreshortening.

Doing this because i feel that i struggle with this.

Any tips on foreshortening and how to deal with ensuring the limbs are consistently the same size during moving would be helpful.
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Quote AshCrimson Replybullet Posted: 05 July 2014 at 3:06pm
Tried practicing again, but this time with a two-handed weapon wielder.

Probably not much of an improvement, but it's an attempt at improving some of the stances and how the weapon is held at least. Also moved the elbows down, since they were too high.



Fiddled around with animating them and got this:



At this point it's me mainly practicing until i get better at this, unfortunately.


Edited by AshCrimson - 05 July 2014 at 3:08pm
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Quote AshCrimson Replybullet Posted: 07 July 2014 at 3:04pm
Some more practicing and changing of the previous one-handed and two-handed attack animations:





Just a further re-working of it


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AshCrimson
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Quote AshCrimson Replybullet Posted: 11 July 2014 at 7:16am
I feel/think i have finally finished these:



Unless there's any further improvements or mistakes i need to fix.
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jalonso
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Quote jalonso Replybullet Posted: 11 July 2014 at 7:59am
You are awesome :)
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AshCrimson
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Quote AshCrimson Replybullet Posted: 11 July 2014 at 8:00am
Thanks Jalonso! I feel i have improved a lot since last year, primarily because of the help i have received and the support from people such as yourself!

But i don't want to rest on my laurels, I'm going to keep trying to improve.
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Quote AshCrimson Replybullet Posted: 13 July 2014 at 3:06am
I finished this:



Not too happy with it at the moment, i feel some of the clothes (Upper Right and Lower Left) shift a bit too much when they move or are too unrealistic. I am also concerned with the readability of the hands and arms for some of them.

I'm going to hold off submitting it until i get some critique, just in case there's anything wrong with it.

Edit:

Further update, dealing with the moon-walking/sliding problem:




Edited by AshCrimson - 13 July 2014 at 8:36am
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Damian
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Quote Damian Replybullet Posted: 14 July 2014 at 8:51am
About the "moon walk" issue, I'd say there isn't really an issue, you're just looking at this the wrong way. If I were to lunge forward I would either bring my back foot forward because I'm moving in that direction, which is what the sprites seem to be doing but at a static position. Or, if I was doing the same thing but moved back to my original position because of an obstacle in front of me, after the lunge I would lift my knee up, foot off the floor, and then move back to my original position.

I'll try to make an edit. Although animation isn't a strong point of mine.

Edited by Damian - 14 July 2014 at 10:08am
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Damian
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Quote Damian Replybullet Posted: 14 July 2014 at 10:07am

Okay, so the edit above is an example of what I meant, but very sloppy and quick. When the leg comes back in your image, I noticed it kinda bends and breaks in the wrong direction, which also makes the leg look a bit smaller than it should. Also pay more attention to what the arms are doing. The sprite has both arms to his side, and then they magically appear behind his back. There is a lot more to fix, anatomically, and animation wise, but I think some of that should come with more experience and time. I look forward to seeing your progression.
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Quote AshCrimson Replybullet Posted: 14 July 2014 at 3:31pm
Even though i have since submitted it, i will continue to work and improve it with your advice in mind Damien! Made this quick edit, hopefully it addresses the issue with the arms and possibly feet:



I've been told in another forum to keep the back foot in place, rather than let it move, so that is the reason why it doesn't move.
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Mr.Fahrenheit
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Quote Mr.Fahrenheit Replybullet Posted: 14 July 2014 at 9:08pm
The main problem I see with your animations is that you never really rotate the hips or the shoulders. In almost every motion we make they rotate with our body.

The chest looks like its facing towards the camera rather than 3/4's view. Remember that from the 3/4's perspective the chest will not look symmetrical.

I think a good exercise for you animations would be to redraw every frame instead of copy pasting the old frame and changing it. This forces you to actually try and get the motion you are going for rather than changing it just enough to sort of look like what you want. It gives it a lot more fluidity and more natural motion generally.
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Quote AshCrimson Replybullet Posted: 15 July 2014 at 2:25am
Thanks for the advice Mr.Fahrenheit! I appreciate you bringing attention to the lack of rotation in hips and shoulders and the sameness of the chest in every frame.

I know this will sound stupid, but im not sure exactly how to rotate them, apologies for this.

I'm worried that if i re-draw each frame, i'd just end up copying what i did previously.

Here's another quick edit; tried my attempt (or how i perceived doing it at least) at rotating the hips and shoulders (probably wrong though). I also made sure the chest wasn't symmetrical and tried to make it look like he was turning slightly.




Edited by AshCrimson - 15 July 2014 at 7:42am
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Quote AshCrimson Replybullet Posted: 16 July 2014 at 2:04am
Another edit



Probably not much of a difference from the previous one, but i tried narrowing the hips to imply movement/twisting, changed the position of the arms and shoulders during the swing as i tried swinging a pole my self and noticed where my arms where/how they were positioned during and after the swing.
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Quote AshCrimson Replybullet Posted: 17 July 2014 at 7:24am
Tried editing it further to make it smoother, remove any inconsistancies etc and ensure he actually bends his knee after his foot hits the ground, during the final bit of his swing:



Hopefully the leg movement looks less jerky this time!

Second edit:

Added idle frames after swing and added another wind-up frame to the pre-swing. Hopefully it doesn't look too bad or physically impossible. Will keep the previous one up as well:



Does it feel any more fluid? I'll need to increase the blur trail as well.


Edited by AshCrimson - 17 July 2014 at 4:29pm
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Quote AshCrimson Replybullet Posted: 18 July 2014 at 7:33am
Originally posted by AshCrimson

Some more practicing and changing of the previous one-handed and two-handed attack animations:




Just an update on this, since i was updating the two-handed attack:



Sorry if im posting too much!

Edit: Was told the sword slash looked too slow so sped it up:



Further edit:

In my continuing efforts to update my attack animations so they're consistant i've gone back to the spear thrust.

Here's a before and after:

Before (last un-edited version)



After:



I am worried that it doesn't have the same impact as before, but i wanted to solve the issue of the awkward jump and keep it consistant.

I didn't add the "lean back on one leg" thing that i did with previous animations, as i assume that is appropiate for when you're trying to do a slashing attack, rather than a piercing one? If not, just say and i will make changes.


Edited by AshCrimson - 18 July 2014 at 3:14pm
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Quote AshCrimson Replybullet Posted: 19 July 2014 at 7:41am
Updated the spear attack because i fear that it lacked impact and the build up was way too short:

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Quote AshCrimson Replybullet Posted: 21 July 2014 at 2:51pm
Some (finally!) Non-Animation stuff:

A bit burnt out from animating (I was finding it more of a chore than something i actually enjoyed) so decided to give animating a rest for now whilst i go back to my bigger bases that i left behind sometime ago and see if i can improve on them with what i've learnt, here's an update:



I guess what i am struggling with the most on this is the arms and how to make them look like actual arms. I tried avoiding the straight arm look but it ends up looking wonky like in the edit.

Edited by AshCrimson - 21 July 2014 at 2:51pm
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AshCrimson
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Quote AshCrimson Replybullet Posted: 22 July 2014 at 2:35pm
Here's a further edit of the bigger base, also included two different poses that i felt were appropiate:

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AshCrimson
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Quote AshCrimson Replybullet Posted: 25 July 2014 at 10:25am
So tried animating again:



Changed spear, one-handed and two-handed weapon attack animations.

Added a bow attack animation, a shield defend animation (Still very WIP), Preparation for casting a spell animation and an attempt at a horse running/moving animation (Again, still very WIP).
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Quote AshCrimson Replybullet Posted: 26 July 2014 at 8:26am
Update on horse:



Note: It's only four frames at the moment.


Edited by AshCrimson - 26 July 2014 at 8:30am
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Damian
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Quote Damian Replybullet Posted: 26 July 2014 at 10:22am
Here's a reference to help :
Horse animation
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Quote Adcrusher Replybullet Posted: 26 July 2014 at 11:44am
Another good reference that I use all the time is this:

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/795491/edits/animalmovement.jpg

The images are actually backwards, and there are 4 frames of animation since the first frame is repeated. It gets a bit confusing to look at but isn't too bad. I also use this for when I want an animal to run a little silly, I'll make a cat walk run like a horse or a dog walk like an elephant, its pretty useful. I would recommend saving the image somewhere, I don't know where the original one is and that one is just hosted off my dropbox so if I move files around the link could break.
Anyway, hope this helps!


Edited by Adcrusher - 26 July 2014 at 11:46am
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jalonso
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Quote jalonso Replybullet Posted: 26 July 2014 at 11:44am
syosa and big brother have excellent horse animations to study in their gallery.
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AshCrimson
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Quote AshCrimson Replybullet Posted: 26 July 2014 at 12:43pm
Thanks for the references!

Had a look at 'em and edited it accordingly:



Is it any better or does it still look too awkward?
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jalonso
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Quote jalonso Replybullet Posted: 26 July 2014 at 12:54pm
This looks like a real galloping horse.

This is the BigBrother I was thinking about


The front legs on a horse do not go at the same time!

OT: When you search for 'running' or 'tree' (PAs holy grails) in the gallery you can be entertained for hours and laugh you ass off.

Edited by jalonso - 26 July 2014 at 1:02pm
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Quote AshCrimson Replybullet Posted: 26 July 2014 at 1:16pm

Didn't realise that sorry!

Here's another quick update, tried making the front legs go at different rates:


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Quote jalonso Replybullet Posted: 26 July 2014 at 1:27pm
Yes on the front legs but a little more couldn't hurt.
Maybe you should shade the rear legs as those examples show.
The back legs are too kangaroo/bunny looking. Shading the rear one might help there too.

Edited by jalonso - 26 July 2014 at 1:28pm
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Quote AshCrimson Replybullet Posted: 26 July 2014 at 2:00pm
Thanks for the continuing advice btw Jalonso!

Made this quick edit with your words in mind, tried making the back legs look uh, less kangarooey:



Edit: Tried to make back legs look less samey so they don't look like they're going at the exact same time, reduced bouncing of the horses back and tried to contract and expand the horse during certain frames:




Edited by AshCrimson - 26 July 2014 at 3:01pm
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Quote jalonso Replybullet Posted: 26 July 2014 at 4:30pm
I don't understand the leg colors and make the legs hard to read, imo.
Lets say the horse is all white then the pink legs(front) would be white and the yellow legs(rear)would be grey.
The update does look much better overall.
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Quote Daruda Replybullet Posted: 26 July 2014 at 5:22pm
Originally posted by jalonso

syosa and big brother have excellent horse animations to study in their gallery.

Syosa is still working in his blog, he has a lot of animal reference and pixel art. It's awesome.

Anyway, the last Edit is really better. You may want to add another frame when the legs move inside. It would be more smooth.

I agree with Jal about the guide colors, the sprite is too small to use them. And I'm looking forward to see it finished ;D
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Quote AshCrimson Replybullet Posted: 27 July 2014 at 1:41am
Sorry, I should have explained; The reason the legs are different colours are so i can easily distinguish between them; orange/yellow are the "front" legs and pink/purple are the behind legs. 
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Quote AshCrimson Replybullet Posted: 27 July 2014 at 6:15am
Originally posted by Daruda

Originally posted by jalonso

syosa and big brother have excellent horse animations to study in their gallery.

Syosa is still working in his blog, he has a lot of animal reference and pixel art. It's awesome.

Anyway, the last Edit is really better. You may want to add another frame when the legs move inside. It would be more smooth.

I agree with Jal about the guide colors, the sprite is too small to use them. And I'm looking forward to see it finished ;D


Added another frame like you said, hopefully it looks more smooth and fluid like you mentioned:





Edited by AshCrimson - 27 July 2014 at 6:19am
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Quote PixelSnader Replybullet Posted: 27 July 2014 at 8:01am
The back legs still make the same movement at the same time, like a bunny hop. You want to have an animation where you have each foot touch the ground one frame after another.
This edited/cleaned version of Muybridge's work shows it quite well.

F, air, air, R,
R, RR, RF, F,
FF, F, F, *unused*

If you were to edit that down to a more animatable amount, you'd have something like 6 frames; R, RR, RF, FF, F, air.

For animation it's key to keep in mind the flow of the animation. It need not all be exactly accurate to nature and IRL timing, but it has to follow a certain logic. For example, you generally want your feet to roughly follow an ellips or a banana shape. (super over exaggerated example)
So just make that for every leg, and then layer them so they go in a series instead of simultaneously. You look like you've already got an okay animation for the rear legs so all you have to do is offset them by one frame I think.

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Quote AshCrimson Replybullet Posted: 27 July 2014 at 10:43am
Thanks for the advice Pixelsnader!

Added another frame like you advised and tried to edit it with your words in mind:



Further edit:




Edited by AshCrimson - 27 July 2014 at 2:41pm
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Quote AshCrimson Replybullet Posted: 27 July 2014 at 3:11pm
Apparently the head doesn't look horse-like enough so here:



Also doubled the amount of frames, hopefully it should be smoother.
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Quote jalonso Replybullet Posted: 27 July 2014 at 3:18pm
That is so much better.
The head is weak and I think its because you are not showing the jowl/cheek.

Gallery find with decent head because of the jowl/cheek



Edited by jalonso - 27 July 2014 at 3:41pm
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Quote AshCrimson Replybullet Posted: 27 July 2014 at 3:59pm
Originally posted by jalonso

That is so much better.
The head is weak and I think its because you are not showing the jowl/cheek.

Gallery find with decent head because of the jowl/cheek



Thanks, will do so!



Thickened the neck, made ears stick out less by one pixel, tried changing the tail to make it look less like a dog's. Also added a mane.


Edited by AshCrimson - 27 July 2014 at 4:00pm
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Quote AshCrimson Replybullet Posted: 28 July 2014 at 7:19am
Here's my attempt at a uh, rider:

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Quote jalonso Replybullet Posted: 28 July 2014 at 7:31am
Double check the pixels highlighted in green.
Looks like you have semi-trans pixels.


You might have missed what I meant about the cheek/jowl part of the head that  makes the brown horse's head ref I showed look like a horse and where you head misses.
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