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Lindion45
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Quote Lindion45 Replybullet Topic: Incorrectly removed image
    Posted: 21 October 2015 at 1:06pm
I believe that my latest image has been removed unfairly.

"PJ does not add palettes as 'art' in the gallery."

My image was not just a palette. It was a carefully drawn graphic showcasing a palette. It took over an hour to draw, so I'll be very disappointed if it's permanently gone.

I've seen images with much less content allowed through, so I don't think it's fair that mine should be removed, simply on the basis that it's branded as a palette.

http://pixeljoint.com/pixelart/98892.htm

If this really cannot be, I've added an explicitly stated example:



But I personally don't feel it necessary, as it wasn't just a palette in the first place!

Also why put 'art' in quotations, what are you trying to say!?
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DawnBringer
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Quote DawnBringer Replybullet Posted: 21 October 2015 at 1:48pm
I think this is borderline. A handdrawn diagram can to some degree be considered art, but this is quite minimalistic. And if you're serious you should have spent more time and effort on the example picture (that could have qualified it) rather than putting in the least possible effort.

As a palette it's quite useless. You basically have two brightness-levels and some reds. The four darkest colors are pretty much indistinguishable on their own, and completely merges when contrasted with the remaining colors. Brightness distribution is the most important factor of any normal palette. One positive note though; your colors are fairly consistent in saturation.

Keep trying! :)
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Lindion45
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Quote Lindion45 Replybullet Posted: 21 October 2015 at 2:18pm
A hand drawn diagram can to some degree be considered art
A diagram, regardless of whether it is hand drawn or not, is most definitely art. Maybe you don't consider it to be, but that doesn't mean it's not.

What if I'd labelled my work as "Sci-fi alien scale texture examination GUI for my latest indie game"

I bet you it would not have been taken down then. Which means it's not an issue with the artwork, rather an inconsistency in the rules. The rules are there to prevent certain artwork from being uploaded. If you can change the context of the artwork without changing anything in the artwork itself, and then be allowed through, there is definitely something funny going on.


this is quite minimalistic
So? As I said, I've seen much less detailed work go through?

Also some food for thought:



if you're serious you should have spent more time and effort on the example picture
How do you know how much time I spent on it? Just because you're a skilled artist and could achieve it quickly, does not mean that I am as well.

I actually spent rather a long time on that cloud. It was used in one of the earlier betas for my game, as fog. Click here to go to the blog post.

It's since been removed, in favour of more realistic fog

So in this situation, I grabbed the old cloud sprite, recoloured it accordingly, and added it to my artwork.

As a palette it's quite useless."
Maybe for you? Someone commented that they were going to use it, before it got removed.
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jalonso
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Quote jalonso Replybullet Posted: 21 October 2015 at 2:45pm
Palettes are very important and crucial in pixelart but they are a tool/resource not art.

Of course you were creative and artistic but even with a different title we would see its a palette.

Palettes are cool to include in pixels but there must be some art to go with it. This is fair to all because if your palette is added to the gallery then any kind of palette should be too.
Many here make elaborate and creative charts to their palettes ever since DB started making them and none of these have been allowed before, even DBs.
We hold palette comps and these palettes are never added and many have creative charts too. Its fair to all because palettes are tools/resources not art.

In the original submission you did not have a sample art and I commented and explained how to better present this as an addendum to a pixel instead of the feature.
I agree the example you added is really thrown together and does not showcase or explore the palette so its better but... :/

You are not being singled out or treated unfairly at all. I hope you don't feel that 'the man' is coming down and 'judging' creativity and all that related convo that happens every 3 months.

We all support creativity, art, personal expression and everything else you can think of within the majority accepted scope of pixelart as is currently known but naturally subject to evolve.

Why not just do as I suggested and make some creative pixel using your palette in a way that entices others to use and explore it and by all means include your chart.
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jalonso
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Quote jalonso Replybullet Posted: 21 October 2015 at 2:49pm
* Palletes are included with pixels all the time.
* Noone objects to that.
* The original submission did not include any art just the palette chart.
* For the time being palettes are tools/resources used in creating pixelart not art by themselves.

E: This was a reply to a PJer post now removed which said pretty much what I had said but was better expressed :(
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Lindion45
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Quote Lindion45 Replybullet Posted: 21 October 2015 at 3:23pm
In compliance with the "no palettes" rule, I'll try again;
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eishiya
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Quote eishiya Replybullet Posted: 21 October 2015 at 4:15pm
If you want people to be interested in your palette, you should post a piece that really showcases it, instead of a piece that just happens to use (part of) it. Plus, the cloud appears to have a colour that's not even included in the chart.
Also, if you want to include your palette along with the piece, I recommend adding a small arrangement of swatches instead of a large gradient. Many people are likely to miss the fact that it's meant to be the palette, since it's not presented in the usual way, and includes colours not found in the "piece proper". That said, the fact that your palette includes colours not included in the example is a good reason to not include the (whole) palette at all, or to use an image that uses the full palette. The whole point of example images it to show what the palette can do, not what part of it can do.
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Lindion45
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Quote Lindion45 Replybullet Posted: 21 October 2015 at 5:19pm
If you want people to be interested in your palette, you should post a piece that really showcases it
I agree! But this is about the fact it was removed from the gallery, not that it wasn't useful.

Plus, the cloud appears to have a colour that's not even included in the chart.
Yup, my bad. It's in the bit I chopped off, at the top (see the first image I posted).

I recommend adding a small arrangement of swatches instead of a large gradient. Many people are likely to miss the fact that it's meant to be the palette
It was supposed to be more arty, than palettey, but I wanted people to take the colours I'd used and create something more meaningful.

The whole point of example images it to show what the palette can do, not what part of it can do.
Well that's what my little diagram was supposed to do. But apparently it's too palettey to let through. I only added the cloud as a kind of compromise, (that's still failed the deal, apparently).
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jalonso
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Quote jalonso Replybullet Posted: 21 October 2015 at 6:10pm
It was not removed. It was not added for the reasons already stated and member queue votes. It was sent back for revision and a personal message describing the issue and giving help and suggestions.
You are more than welcome to keep it as it was originally so long as there is some pixelart to go with it.
Don't complicate things we are trying to help you along.
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Lindion45
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Quote Lindion45 Replybullet Posted: 22 October 2015 at 2:21am
It was not removed. It was not added
I meant, removed from the queue! I wasn't implying it got through, and then was removed.

You are more than welcome to keep it as it was originally so long as there is some pixelart to go with it.
So, does that mean with the cloud, it's allowed?

Don't complicate things we are trying to help you along.
I'm very sorry if I'm complicating things!

I was just taken back, that's all. I would like to get to the bottom of this too, and I'm glad that you're willing to discuss this with me.
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jalonso
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Quote jalonso Replybullet Posted: 22 October 2015 at 5:21am
It would be great if you understood how a palette no matter how creative is a tool/resource used in pixelart and does not really qualify as a pixel on its own.

With a pixel its fine to include the original you submitted but the cloud example you have is weak because it does not showcase the palette as already mentioned. This is c+c to help you not some law or rule. Also the colors were wrong.

Work on the art a little more and do your best to make your best. There is no need to label 'example' in the art because all PJer understand palettes and what they are in pixels.
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eishiya
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Quote eishiya Replybullet Posted: 22 October 2015 at 7:16am
Agreed with Jal. I think once an appropriate example image (using every colour, showing the way the colours interact e.g. via dithers, etc) is added, I will definitely vote to accept it, for what that's worth.

Two ideas/suggestions:
1. Make the example be the visually dominant thing in the image. It should read as "art and the palette used to make it" rather than as "a palette oh and also an example". You can still have the palette on top since that's the main thing, just make the example image larger and more interesting.
2. Make an image that doesn't just use the colours, but uses them well. Show that your palette is worth sharing in the first place! Use some of those dither-colours, apply some of that data you share in your charts! Your cloud doesn't showcase the palette, it just happens to use it. Make a new example instead of reusing old art. The old art was likely made with a different purpose in mind, so it's not likely to make a good showcase of the palette, even if it does use all the colours. Make an illustration, or, if the palette's intended for game art, make a little mock-up. Play up the strengths of the palette in your example.

Put at least as much work into your example as you did into the palette presentation part, make it at least as good and interesting. Then, you'll have a piece that not only "sells" your palette to its audience, but could get into the gallery on its own merits without even having to have had the discussion in this thread about the merits of palette presentations as art :]

I'd skip the colour map, by the way (the part where you have all that lovely dithering). It doesn't include all the colours anyway, and since you get some very nice, common colours with dithering, you'd probably need two of those maps - one with the dithering, and one without. It's better to just leave the palette and the value and dither information so that the presentation is tidy and small, especially since anyone can generate colour maps just by having the palette. You could, however, post the palette with all the charts as a resource on the forum, if you want to.
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Lindion45
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Quote Lindion45 Replybullet Posted: 23 October 2015 at 7:21am
a palette no matter how creative does not qualify as a pixel on its own.



It should read as "art and the palette used to make it" rather than as "a palette oh and also an example".

You know what, forget the palette. I'll just make a pretty cloud picture.

I didn't realize palettes were completely banned in the gallery, regardless of the form.

post the palette with all the charts as a resource

That sounds like the best course of action. Where is an appropriate forum to do that?

Sorry for wasting your time haha
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eishiya
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Quote eishiya Replybullet Posted: 23 October 2015 at 7:38am
Resources and Support, where you posted this thread.

You will still need (good) examples though, not just your cloud. Whether it's in the gallery or on the forum, you still need to show that your palette is worth paying attention to. For a palette to justify getting its own thread, it should have numerous examples. The threads for DawnBringer's DB16 and DB32 palettes are great examples to use as reference when making your thread. They contain numerous examples of the palette used in the contexts it's meant for, and being used well. The threads mention what the palettes' strengths and weaknesses are, and what the palettes are intended for, even though they can be used for much more.
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jalonso
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Quote jalonso Replybullet Posted: 23 October 2015 at 9:35am
Why are you being so complicated.
Palettes are added all the time and they are cool.
We simply ask that you have pixelart to go with it as a visual of the power of the palette.
The pixelart, ideally, showcases the palette which is what you are not yet doing.
I don't know that I can go further explaining and defining this for you.
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Lindion45
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Quote Lindion45 Replybullet Posted: 23 October 2015 at 11:04am
Why are you being so complicated.
I'm not being complicated! I simply misinterpreted the rules.
I wanted to upload that original picture on its own. I didn't realize that regardless of presentation, palettes were simply not allowed. I was arguing the point of "where do you draw the line between palette and art". However I do now, so no further discussion on that topic is needed.

I don't want to have to spend hours and hours designing a piece of artwork that you guys consider to be "good enough", in order to justify my original palette. It was just a bit of fun, I'm done with it now. If it's not up to standard in its current form, it doesn't matter any more.

You feel?
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