WIP (Work In Progress)
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matt0
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Quote matt0 Replybullet Topic: Mountain Tiles and Panorama
    Posted: 03 May 2016 at 8:54am
A tile set and background panorama I'm working on. Colour / palette design is my weak point so I'm trying to think a bit about ramps. If anyone has advice about tiling, colour + palette or just general feedback would be handy!





Two images so you can see how I've been developing it and a (very rough) idea about how the clouds would work which I scrapped.
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dpixel
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Quote dpixel Replybullet Posted: 03 May 2016 at 12:28pm
The foreground perspective seems to be off compared to the background.  Almost as if they are 45 degrees to each other.

EDIT: 
Also the bridge is reverse lit compared to the mountains.

Sloppy edit:

hehe (ಠ_ಠ ) o_- :p
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matt0
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Quote matt0 Replybullet Posted: 03 May 2016 at 1:29pm
Thanks! It's the starting point for an in-game tileset so I can't use vanishing point perspective but I'll look at fixing the angle it's looking down at and the shading.
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delicatone
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Quote delicatone Replybullet Posted: 03 May 2016 at 6:13pm
Are you looking for kind of traditional Beat 'em up Perspective? Maybe take a look at Battletoads Battlemaniacs. What kind of game is it?
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matt0
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Quote matt0 Replybullet Posted: 05 May 2016 at 7:03am
@yahkebu

It's theoretically an action RPG. The main inspiration are the mountain scenes from Seiken Densetsu 3 (I did imagine it as a Golden Axe style beat-em-up at one point as well though...)

It's intended to be a 3/4 perspective 32x32 tileset with a panoramic parallax layer.

(Should also point out that when I say it's for a game, it's not actually something I intend to make beyond maybe a tilemap and some collision code so I can see what it feels like to wander round in...)

Here's an edit to the tileset with a tweaked horizon line. There's two different layouts, one with a thinner bridge to see how it helped with the perspective.



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Quote NancyGold Replybullet Posted: 06 May 2016 at 5:38am
Still far from being Neo Geo quality.
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Quote heyguy Replybullet Posted: 08 May 2016 at 5:45am
Hey! I'm liking this so far! I actually like the more overhead perspective myself. Games break perspective all the time and I know I've seen plenty of games with perspective like that. I feel the trees closer to the bottom should have a bit more contrast. Maybe they should even be bigger but I'm not sure about that.

The far background trees look repetitive but I'm sure you working on that. I think the clouds look a little repetitive too and maybe it would serve your composition better if you had one large massive godly cloud. I still like the clouds and you can save that tiling texture for another area or project!
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Quote matt0 Replybullet Posted: 09 May 2016 at 10:24am
Still plugging away at this.

@heyguy:

Yeah, I don't think there's many 2D games that make sense as a real space, it's about selling the illusion of space.

Been playing around with the background composition and experimenting with a backdrop image instead of the tiled clouds. Been thinking about how to break the repetition of the trees but first I want to perfect the way they recede into the distance.

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Damian
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Quote Damian Replybullet Posted: 10 May 2016 at 10:30am
The clouds you added are making things visually confusing, the things furthest away tend to desaturate, but your clouds do the opposite. I also don't think being able to look down on the tiles and yet still see beneath the clouds makes much sense. Something to think about hey.
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Quote matt0 Replybullet Posted: 17 May 2016 at 10:37am
Originally posted by Damian

The clouds you added are making things visually confusing, the things furthest away tend to desaturate, but your clouds do the opposite. I also don't think being able to look down on the tiles and yet still see beneath the clouds makes much sense. Something to think about hey.


Okay, so this still isn't strictly realistic but hopefully a little less jarring:



I toned down the saturation on the clouds but there's still the same yellow in there. I'm aiming for a dramatic, early evening cloudscape with a big tonal range and at some point I'll have to rethink my foreground and mid-ground palettes to match that.
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Quote dpixel Replybullet Posted: 17 May 2016 at 2:00pm
Originally posted by Damian

I also don't think being able to look down on the tiles and yet still see beneath the clouds makes much sense.

This is key. 

The bridge doesn't seem to fit the mountain and the sky shouldn't be visible.  The viewing angle looks like top-down if you want the bridge that way. 

In this picture, you can't see the top of the bridge, but yet you see the sky.  If you rotated the viewing angle of this picture to see the top of the bridge, the sky would disappear.



hehe (ಠ_ಠ ) o_- :p
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matt0
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Quote matt0 Replybullet Posted: 17 May 2016 at 3:52pm
Originally posted by dpixel

[QUOTE=Damian] The viewing angle looks like top-down if you want the bridge
that way.  In this picture, you can't see the top of the bridge,
but yet you see the sky.  If you rotated the viewing angle of this
picture to see the top of the bridge, the sky would disappear.



A couple of examples of what I'm trying to do might help, from Mercs and Chronotrigger:





Neither are correct in terms of perspective but when you have the foreground and background parallaxing in game and you reach the top of the map where the skyline scrolls in to view, psychologically it works.

And as a counterpoint, like you explained, this is how it should look with correct perspective:

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Quote matt0 Replybullet Posted: 31 May 2016 at 3:40pm
And another update:



I've skewed the bridge at an angle based on everyone's feedback. I was reluctant to do this because it increases the total number of tiles and as an exercise I wanted to keep the individual number of tiles to a minimum but in the end I think it was the right way to go, it just needs tidying up a bit now.
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Quote GameBoy Replybullet Posted: 01 June 2016 at 1:51am
If you're making a bridge from a few repeated tiles try using more straight wooden planks. That triangle bit at the end of one plank could be used in one place as something breaking the less obvious pattern, but as a main pattern itself it's very weak.

Look at the side of your bridge for good example. These tiles are repeating, but your brain will most likely doesn't notice it. Meanwhile that triangle bit I've mentioned is jarring and sticks out a little too much.
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Quote matt0 Replybullet Posted: 22 June 2016 at 9:57am
Reworked the bridge pattern following GameBoy's feedback and added a character to the scene.

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Quote DieMango Replybullet Posted: 22 June 2016 at 10:22am
This is what i call progress,,,dont have any constructiv comment but just wnated to say how crazy the diffrence between this and the old version is ^^
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Quote zodiac Replybullet Posted: 22 June 2016 at 10:44pm
First let me echo Mango and say this is really great progress! You asked for color advice, though, and that's something I've focusing on myself, so here's a fix.

The big change here was that I lowered the values on all the foreground tiles to make it blend better with the dark cyan shadows in the lower right, which I really like. I also shifted the shadows towards blue, mimicking natural light and making the scene feel unified (full explanation here: http://www.itchy-animation.co.uk/light.htm).

Finally, I removed green from the bridge (it's wood) and added it to the nearby trees, which shouldn't be so hazy since they're closeby.



Also, did you use a tablet to draw in the clouds? They look so smooth o_o. I always spend way too much time on big curves, but I'm still mousing it.
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Quote matt0 Replybullet Posted: 23 June 2016 at 1:29am
Thanks DieMango and Zodiac,

RE: the clouds, yep I used a tablet but there was plenty of going back and tweaking outlines a pixel at a time.

I'll take a look at my palette again based on your edit.
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matt0
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Quote matt0 Replybullet Posted: 27 June 2016 at 8:05am


So here's a palette edit and reworking of the perspective gradient on the background trees. I've not been as bold as Zodiac with the palette but I think it's an improvement overall. The background colours and the blending between tiles still need work and the characters are still rough but it's moving forward.
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Quote matt0 Replybullet Posted: 29 June 2016 at 4:43am


Next version, think I'm almost done here. I've fixed the transitions between the tiles in the background and put in an enemy sprite.

Bit more work needed on the sprites and I might drop in some kind of UI mockup and then I'll call it a day.
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Quote zodiac Replybullet Posted: 29 June 2016 at 7:44pm
As far as sprites, the legs on the white guy and especially the girl seem too short. Is this going to play Golden Axe style? That would rock.

I'd also say to go at least a bit darker on the walkable area, so the character shadows don't stand out so much. Or shift those shadows to more blue or green, so at least their not competing on the same color ramp.
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Quote matt0 Replybullet Posted: 04 July 2016 at 12:02pm


@Zodiac - in my head as I've been working on it it's gone from being like Golden Axe to Secret Of Mana, Chronotrigger and right now Valkyrie Profile.

I've done some tweaks to the sprites and shadow colours based on Zodiac's feedback, a UI overlay and some minor tweaks to the background clouds so they sat nicely behind the enemy energy bar.

I could tweak and fiddle with this forever but baring any other significant feedback I'm going to let it sit for a while before declaring it finished!

Thanks for all the help everyone.
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