WIP (Work In Progress)
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buffoftheclown
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Quote buffoftheclown Replybullet Topic: My Development Journal - Two Games
    Posted: 12 May 2016 at 10:24pm
Progress of my art for a hobbyist project I'm part of.

ANY AND ALL ADVICE, SUGGESTIONS, CRITIQUES AND CRITICISMS WELCOME!!!!

Right now I'm working on Wasteland Environment art for our game.

The color is waaaaaaay too bright. I needed to desaturate it a ton.



Color looks much better. Added rocks.



Starting to make the ground look more beat up and natural.

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buffoftheclown
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Quote buffoftheclown Replybullet Posted: 13 May 2016 at 9:43am
Added a little color variation to the ground. Made some new rock bits to litter the ground.
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Quote buffoftheclown Replybullet Posted: 13 May 2016 at 4:50pm
So the ground bothered me. The rocky top was being washed out by the ground, so I added a boarder to separate the rocks from the ground.
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Quote buffoftheclown Replybullet Posted: 13 May 2016 at 5:23pm
The ground looked too plain, so I added a slight texture to it.
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Quote buffoftheclown Replybullet Posted: 14 May 2016 at 12:48am
Changed the color of the rocks to make them less gray, as soon I'll be doing roads, and I don't want clashing colors on screen.

Ground cracks and dying grass has been added.
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eishiya
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Quote eishiya Replybullet Posted: 14 May 2016 at 7:50am
Would you mind not making the images link to Photobucket? The link makes it very annoying to zoom, and doesn't do anything useful.

Are people meant to give you pixel art feedback on this, or just general art feedback? If you want pixel art feedback, please post the art without zooms/smoothing, as it blurs everything.
The lighter... rocks? seem to stick out of the ground because of the shadows they cast, is that intentional? I can't tell exactly what kind of terrain I'm looking at here, it looks like it's red ground with a mosaic lying on top of it.


Also, I recommend editing previous posts to add more stuff, and only making new posts every day or every other day or so, or after others have replies. Posting multiple times in a row doesn't help you, and just stretches out this thread.
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buffoftheclown
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Quote buffoftheclown Replybullet Posted: 14 May 2016 at 9:09am
I stopped using photobucket, as you suggested. I hope the images are easier to navigate now :)

As explained in the OP, this is a wasteland environment. more specifically, a post apocalyptic kind of environment. Sorry if that wasn't clear.

So I desaturated the ground more. I'm also working on two kinds of roads - one out in the middle of the wasteland, and one in towns. The road with the sidewalk/curb is for towns.


This is the road for the middle of the wasteland.
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Quote eishiya Replybullet Posted: 14 May 2016 at 1:30pm
"Wasteland" doesn't answer my question. I meant what is the actual physical surface you're trying to represent? What sort of ground is it? Have you thought about that at all?

I like the newer colours, but I'm not sure I like how noisy it all is, doesn't seem to fit with the sprite in the first post.
The yellow lines in the middle of the wasteland road seem to be on a different scale from the white lines for the town roads. Since the character doesn't change from place to place, neither should the map scale.
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Quote buffoftheclown Replybullet Posted: 14 May 2016 at 6:38pm
Um, physical surface? A would guess a clay like desert? I haven't really thought of it. I just look at reference pictures for "wasteland" type games and copy their textures and colors.

As for the sprite in the first post, that guy will be changed. At the moment the programmer needs an environment first, and characters second. His style will fit the aesthetics of the environment.

You are correct about the road. The white stripes were the first attempt at making roads, and the double yellow lines are my second attempt. I will be changing the the white line road to match!

As for how busy things look, I'm just drawing on my memory of games like Fallout 3, where there is junk and rocks everywhere around you. Maybe that isn't smart to do for a 2D survival/scavenging game?

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Quote buffoftheclown Replybullet Posted: 15 May 2016 at 4:33am
Started to work on the road for the middle of the wasteland.

I got a few different effects going on here, but I'm not pleased with the "soft" edges found throughout the road.

The edges that are more defined, mainly under the cracks, is the desired look I want, so I'll have to redo the rest of the road to match.

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Quote dyluck Replybullet Posted: 15 May 2016 at 10:08am
the blurring at the edges of the road may be considered NPA, and the border of some tiles don't fit the limits of neighbour tiles, other than that, the variety and originality and the art itself is very cool.
ps: i would change the cracks in the road, some look a bit unnatural.
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Quote NancyGold Replybullet Posted: 15 May 2016 at 2:55pm
nice tileset. love how it is low contrast, so interactive items would be easier to read
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Quote buffoftheclown Replybullet Posted: 16 May 2016 at 6:01am
@dyluck Awesome name, wonderful game! :) I threw the fuzzy edges out, as they don't fit this games style. How do the cracks look now?

@snv I will continue to work on the color scheme so that it won't hurt the player's eye, and will allow players to notice interactable items form the background stuff.

My style of sprite work allows me to make thousands of combinations for different looks. Why? I just do not like repeating tiles in my art.

I am perfectly happy with repeating tiles in games. I don't even notice them, but, with my stuff, I can't stand repeating tiles....

I am going to work in "melding" the center tiles, the ones with the yellow divider, with the "edge" tiles, with the white lines, to eliminate the look of tiles within the road itself.

Went with the hard edges this time around.
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Quote dyluck Replybullet Posted: 16 May 2016 at 11:52am
 ;)

the amount of work in this piece and quality level is more than reasonable,  but anything is always improvable.

for the road feedback...

-I love the darker stains, I would use it for lightning strikes combined with broken asphalt and scattered pieces. (but I would place very few in the game, like landmarks or such, not a very common phenomenon lightning striking a road).

-I would make spots in wich the dirt "eats" it, by growing over it, here and there, frequent or common.

-I would increase the contrast between the land and the outline upper side of the big rocks, and lower juuust a little in the lower side.

-I won't exagerate as much the frequency and shapes of broken pieces of road, and besides the ones scattered in a lightning strike, I would place them very close to the jigsaw edges.
I definitevely would search images of "broken asphalt road" as references.
wheter you continue improving this piece or move on to the next ones, keep up the good work!
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Quote buffoftheclown Replybullet Posted: 17 May 2016 at 11:46pm
@dyluck I will fix the contrast of those big rocks when I get around to working on the rocks again. As for the dirt eating away at the road, I do plan on doing exactly what you said, but for now I'm just using some "dirt sprinkles" ontop of the road. As far as the broken pieces on the side of the road, I haven't looked that up as a refence yet, but I will, and if it looks "better" then I will gladly do as you suggest :)

As for now, I can now construct the road in all eight directions for the game. I will be adding T and X intersections soon.
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Quote buffoftheclown Replybullet Posted: 18 May 2016 at 7:18am
Added intersections and Telephone poles. Telephone poles are vital for the player :)

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Quote eishiya Replybullet Posted: 18 May 2016 at 7:27am
The telephone poles suggest something like isometric or 3/4 view, but your road looks like a full from-above view. To match, the roads that run horizontally should be narrower than those running vertically. The diagonal roads should be narrower than the vertical ones, but not as narrow as the horizontal ones. Depending on how your tiles are set up, you may be able to achieve this just by reducing the number of tiles within each road (and you'll likely need to change where in the tile the mid-road markings are).
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Quote buffoftheclown Replybullet Posted: 18 May 2016 at 8:08am
Originally posted by eishiya

The telephone poles suggest something like isometric or 3/4 view, but your road looks like a full from-above view. To match, the roads that run horizontally should be narrower than those running vertically. The diagonal roads should be narrower than the vertical ones, but not as narrow as the horizontal ones. Depending on how your tiles are set up, you may be able to achieve this just by reducing the number of tiles within each road (and you'll likely need to change where in the tile the mid-road markings are).



At the moment we don't feel shortening of the roads will add anything to the game versus the time lost to do redo the roads.

The game is slated to have randomly generated terrain, so the more tiles we have the match up without any wonky perspective issues, the easier for us to get done.

Hmmm.... But I do see what you're getting at, and if this is an issue for most people, we'd address it.

One of the main issues is that player driven vehicles need space to move around, and having perspective on the roads would just shorten the space vehicles have when driving past each other. Its not like your car is going to get smaller by driving on the top lane of a vertical road.

I hope that makes sense?

-edit- As an artist I agree with you 99.5%, but as a developer that needs to get things done in a timely manner, this isn't something I have time to do! :(
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Quote eishiya Replybullet Posted: 18 May 2016 at 10:05am
I would assume that cars don't have square sprites or collision boxes, so they shouldn't be an issue in that regard. And players, when controlling such things, subconsciously adjust to the projection they're presented with, so they control things as they see them, not as the implied reality.

Depending on how your tiling and your generation are done it can be anywhere from as easy as uniform-width roads to a major headache, so I can see why you'd want to avoid it.
In one of my own tilesets, to facilitate procedural layouts, I kept all the roads the same width in tiles, but I changed the positions of the edges of the road in those tiles. However, this was a game where being slightly off-road didn't have gameplay implications.
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Quote buffoftheclown Replybullet Posted: 19 May 2016 at 3:43am
@Eishiya Before I start "eating" roads up.how is this for a bit of perspective?

The road is still the same size as before, but as you suggested, I just moved the road markings around to give the illusion of depth.

@Dyluck After I get the go ahead with the new roads, I'll make the damage in the roads look more realistic as per the reference for damage asphalt roads you suggested.

So the question is - go with the old road perspective, or this new road perspective?

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Quote eishiya Replybullet Posted: 19 May 2016 at 7:19am
This new road perspective is wrong so I'd go with the old.
You wouldn't just need to move the markings, but the EDGES of the road.

Here's a quick draw-over that keeps your roads 3 tiles wide (if you're using 32px tiles, which I think you are):

And here it is with a 32px tile grid overlaid, so you can more clearly see the relationship between the road tile edges and the tile boundaries:


You could shift the yellow markings a pixel or two to show that the road bulbs in the middle, I just went for the quicker option of keeping them in the middle.

By the way, I rather like the flat-coloured road that only gets texture in some areas from the dirt on it. I think this is a look you should consider keeping. Not everything has to be textured to look good! Often, having smooth areas can make a setting feel rougher than putting texture everywhere, because it creates contrast, making the rough parts feel rougher without having an overwhelmingly contrasty texture.
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Quote buffoftheclown Replybullet Posted: 19 May 2016 at 7:34am
Thank you very much for the input. I'll run this by my programmer to see if he approves of it.
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Quote eishiya Replybullet Posted: 19 May 2016 at 7:37am
In terms of programming, this is identical to the original tiles (though my diagonal transitions might be a little different from yours). The horizontal road is still 3 tiles, the tiles just aren't 100% filled. It should not affect the programming at all. The engine just sees "upper road edge tile, middle road tile, lower road edge tile". It doesn't matter to the engine what the content of those tiles is.
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Quote buffoftheclown Replybullet Posted: 20 May 2016 at 6:26am
@Eishiya We've decided to go with the old road width. You skinnier version just doesn't look right to us at the moment. This doesn't mean we can't change it in the future once we start making buildings, etc... and your version may look better then.

Here is the basic wasteland male_hero walking right.
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Quote buffoftheclown Replybullet Posted: 25 May 2016 at 3:36am
I'm now working on a second game. This one, is isometric, which I know is popular among pixel artists.

Let's be clear here, I am NOT a pixel artist. I'm a sprite artist.

This is the first time I've worked on an isometric game, so, blast away with critiques, criticism and crap!!!

Right now I am trying to get basic art done for the programmer and mapper to do their initial testing, so I'm not going for detail just yet.

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