Pixel Joint Forum: Style Study

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Indigo
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Joined: 20 April 2016
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Topic: Style Study :: Kenneth Fejer
Posted: 03 August 2006 at 3:04am

well i decided that i'd do a style study on Kenneth Fejer since he's pretty high up there on my hero list. I wanted to see exactly how he does his stuff, and the best way to find out is to do it yourself. So while looking at lots of fejer art, I made this mockup mixing his style with a little bit of my own.

things I learned:
- with Fejer, its all about selout. Almost every element in his art uses lots of selout techniques. and black is used seldom
- bright highlights are usually a no-no in this style, instead, think flat shapes that suggest 3d forms.
- usually, you have a base-colour and a bright-colour for every element. you use those to shade with, and all the other colours go to the outline (which is usually 2 or 3)
- Use simple shapes heavily, and keep it constant throughout the mockup (I could have done better at this). This also includes simple patterns

well yeah, thats about it
C+C as usual

-Dan

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Skull
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PJ Pioneer

Joined: 03 August 2019
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Posted: 03 August 2006 at 7:18am

What's to crit - It looks awesome. I just love this bright, childish style. Fantastic.

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Monkey 'o Doom
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Joined: 24 September 2005
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Posted: 03 August 2006 at 8:31am

I love how the colors really stick out but don't hurt your eyes. Great emulation of his style.

RPG is numberwang.

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jalonso
Admiral
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Posted: 03 August 2006 at 8:39am

The sky is not pixelart, thus this is not pixelart.

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Aleiav
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Joined: 08 April 2016
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Posted: 03 August 2006 at 9:56am

His/Your shading technique seems so simple and yet it's so brilliant. Nice work. :) I love the colors and the design.

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Indigo
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Joined: 20 April 2016
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Posts: 174

Posted: 03 August 2006 at 10:48am

Heh, thanks everybody for the kind comments. -Gives me warm fuzzies all over :)

Originally posted by jalonso

The sky is not pixelart, thus this is not pixelart.

please dont say your serious. I realise that the sky isn't pixel-art. That is the only element in this screen shot that isn't. Appreciate the pixel art for what it is and if you have a problem with the CG sky, then ignore it. I'm not trying to decieve anyone here. The reason why I put it in there is to stay constant with Kenneth's style:

kenneth's stuff:

all of these have a CG background, but that doesn't take away the fact that he is a very awesome pixel artist. Anyway, if you dont like the CG -thats fine, dont comment on it. If you like (or dislike) the pixel art - thats fine too, please do comment on it. theres just no need to be a nazi over it when it was obviously done intentionally and without deception. You didn't comment at all on the pixelart that did exist, instead you just complained about what isn't. And besides, i still dont see how having a CG background gives reason to label this entire piece as NPA.

Another reason why i post these screen shots is so you can compare the styles (how close did i get?)

EDIT==================

version without the CG background.

Edited by Indigo - 03 August 2006 at 3:50pm

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cure
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Joined: 23 March 2022
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Posts: 2859

Posted: 03 August 2006 at 12:37pm

The NPA background debate aside, I'd say you captured his stlye quite well. Bright, happy colors, cute characters, all the things you've mentioned in the description. That squirrel is despicably cute.

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fil_razorback
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Joined: 17 December 2005
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Posts: 215

Posted: 03 August 2006 at 3:12pm

Yup, you got it. As I said on PP, I can't wait for Kenneth's comments.

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kaltsu
Midshipman

Joined: 19 June 2006
Location: Finland
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Posts: 41

Posted: 03 August 2006 at 3:32pm

Originally posted by Indigo

if you have a problem with the CG sky, then ignore it.

How can you ignore it when it makes your eyes ache?

Originally posted by Indigo

if you dont like the CG -thats fine, dont comment on it.

What weird kind of logic is that?

"Hey I just pooped on your living room. It's ok to dislike it but please don't complain."

Originally posted by Indigo

If you like the pixel art - thats fine too, please do comment on it.

So you accept only positive feedback? Huh? Okay I know you didn't mean it that way but it sure sounds like it.

For the piece itself - quite nice little study and homage and even some nice pixels in it. You're lacking Kenneth's colorful imagination though. Gave it two points in the gallery.

Edited by kaltsu - 03 August 2006 at 3:32pm

Not now honey, I have a deadline.

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Indigo
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Posted: 03 August 2006 at 3:47pm

no no no - your getting me all wrong, kaltsu - and i agree that i wasn't too clear about what i was saying. go agead an critique the pixel-art for good or bad. I'm just saying theres no need to doom this entire piece just because it has a CG background. That shouldn't mean you should ignore the pixel art in the piece which is what this forum is for. Sorry if I came off as an ass. oh, and i'm sorry it makes your eyes ache, I haven't heard a complaint about it before as most people think it's pleasant.

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kaltsu
Midshipman

Joined: 19 June 2006
Location: Finland
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Posts: 41

Posted: 03 August 2006 at 4:25pm

Ok and forgive me being so harsh. I'm occasionally such a stubborn old school geek. "Everything should be like they were in eighties."

Not now honey, I have a deadline.

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Brian the Great
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RED!

Joined: 03 March 2005
Location: United Kingdom
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Posts: 2221

Posted: 03 August 2006 at 4:52pm

No need to lynch him because of some CG background- there's plenty of pixel art left to enjoy. Hell, I didn't even notice at first.

"Hey I just pooped on your living room. It's ok to dislike it but please don't complain."

I really don't get this analogy. Nobody is forcing you to look at it buddy.

As for the actual piece, I think you captured the style brilliantly. I'd take a second look at the trees if I were you though. As with the pillars and other trees in Kenneth's own work you posted, there is a lightsource on both sides. The little purple house is also a bit too prominent for my likings, even though I love the looks of it. Keep up the good work.

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Saboteur
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Joined: 29 January 2018
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Posts: 888

Posted: 03 August 2006 at 5:09pm

Enough. Angst. About. CG. Backgrounds.

First off, I've gotta thank you for not just keeping this study to yerself. I personally lack the patience to figure out exactly what makes a peice look good, which probably holds me back stupid amounts. To have someone else point to certain things that work is phenomenally helpful, an' I've already begun to have a little more faith in sel-out.

I think you've very well acheived both the colour and style of Ken's work, though a few bits of the outlining still irk me a little. Specific locations would be the highlighted edge of the tree (Marked in pink) and the head of the character itself. Also, the little acorns seem jaggedy.

Before I get too far ahead of myself, I'll see if I can even make an edit that comes close to fixing these issues.

Yeah, I did some very, very subtle damage.

Change number one - the afforementioned tree-AA issue. I'd say just take it right out, because it makes it worse rather than better, imo. On the left in the pink square is the original, and without the AA is on the right in the square.

Change number two. There was a dark line on top of the head of the squirrel that I found distracting. I lightened that bit of sel-out to the next shade down, as well as changing the further ear a bit and rounding the tail a little better. It seemed jaggedy to me, so I tried to fix it. You'll find "my" squirrel floating mysteriously in the air.

Change number three. The acorn, as well as other things, seem to run into the edge of their box suddenly, making one sharp, straight line. The top of the squirrel (ears and tail stop along the same horiz. line) and the left side of the acorn seem to be the two culprits here. I tried to fix it on the acorn by again lightening the shade of the sel-out, as well as trying to round out the highlight a bit more. "My" acorn is on the right, and the original on the left

On a final note, I agree with kaltsu about the lack of imagination. Ken's mockups have many things going on, usually, and little details that hint of traps or things that might just spring out and attack you. An example would be the half-circle thing in the plant on the right of his Doukutsu-bird-thing mockup, and the kid icarus shots with all kinds of things going on, not to mention a sparkly harp in there. He's also got more elaborate GUIs, which leave much to the imagination. It'd be an interesting experiment to add something to the GUI without yourself knowing what it was, and see what people say it is.

Yeah, that's all I've got. Awesome, awesome work, and I really do look forward to more of these style studies.

"I was minding my own business and walking across a pebbled path, and a Duck started giving me the business."

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Buzz
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Joined: 13 June 2006
Location: United Kingdom
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Posts: 94

Posted: 03 August 2006 at 6:15pm

If there was one thing I had to say about this, other than the fact that I really like it, I would say the colors leaned more toward your style than his. I've always love your color choices because of their subtle vibrancy (i know contradicting) and his colors had a bit more pop if you ask me.

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jalonso
Admiral
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Posted: 03 August 2006 at 10:55pm

I will not throw a Sharktrum* and just drop the matter. - 50 Respect points.

*© ensellitis

PJs FAQ <•> Sticky Reads

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Indigo
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Joined: 20 April 2016
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Posts: 174

Posted: 03 August 2006 at 10:56pm

Originally posted by jalonso

- 50 Respect points.

-50 respect points? from me? :( sorry man

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jalonso
Admiral
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Posted: 03 August 2006 at 11:15pm

@indigo, I just said that in a general sense, not personally. I do like this and consider it a hybrid form of art. I do hybrids too, I just think its not OK for Pixeljoint, imho.

PJs FAQ <•> Sticky Reads

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Saboteur
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Joined: 29 January 2018
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Posts: 888

Posted: 03 August 2006 at 11:43pm

Ur ho.

"I was minding my own business and walking across a pebbled path, and a Duck started giving me the business."

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Psychotic_Carp
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Joined: 02 April 2005
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Posts: 1008

Posted: 04 August 2006 at 5:30am

I didnt even look at at the background at first with this piece but the fact that your capapble of doing a better background with pixel art makes me want to tell you to get your ass back to it and pixel a background

got game?

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Buzz
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Joined: 13 June 2006
Location: United Kingdom
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Posts: 94

Posted: 04 August 2006 at 5:43am

All of the stuff that was submitted by the guy he was studying used a CG background and was accepted was it not?

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Larwick
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Posts: 4015

Posted: 04 August 2006 at 9:45am

There is no point in discussing the cg background here. The WIP area of the forum has already been used to show NPA anyway. Indigo wanted views on how well he has replicated kenneth fejer's style, and without the background he wouldn't have been able to do it as well. We all know Indigo has the skills to do one himself, but it wouldn't have suited what he was trying to achieve. Seeing as this is a pixel art community, if you wish to crit, i suggest you crit the pixel art only. Indigo even edited it to suit jalonsos needs, so i dont see why the argument should carry on.

I'm not sure why i havent commented yet, this is great. I think Sab pointed out alot of the crits i would have :) Must say I really like that simple-looking health bar for some reason.

Will there be an update?

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PixelSnader
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Not a troll!

Joined: 05 June 2014
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Posts: 3194

Posted: 06 August 2006 at 11:48am

one of the biggest stylistic things (which actually pretty minor) is his playing with saturation more. when i compare his bird mock with your squirrel mock, what i notice is the grass. his grass is more obvious. this is caused by makeing the adjacent ground a bit darker and less saturated then you do. and when i look at the CGed BGs i notice the same saturation thing. yours is a bit brighter compared to his, causing his sprites and platforms to pop just a bit more.

put very simply, blunt and exagerrated: yours is all bright and happy colours, and he has used lower saturation to contrast.

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WIP (Work In Progress)
Pixel Joint Forum : Pixel Art : WIP (Work In Progress)

Author	Message
Indigo Commander Joined: 20 April 2016 Online Status: Offline Posts: 174	Topic: Style Study :: Kenneth Fejer Posted: 03 August 2006 at 3:04am
	well i decided that i'd do a style study on Kenneth Fejer since he's pretty high up there on my hero list. I wanted to see exactly how he does his stuff, and the best way to find out is to do it yourself. So while looking at lots of fejer art, I made this mockup mixing his style with a little bit of my own. things I learned: - with Fejer, its all about selout. Almost every element in his art uses lots of selout techniques. and black is used seldom - bright highlights are usually a no-no in this style, instead, think flat shapes that suggest 3d forms. - usually, you have a base-colour and a bright-colour for every element. you use those to shade with, and all the other colours go to the outline (which is usually 2 or 3) - Use simple shapes heavily, and keep it constant throughout the mockup (I could have done better at this). This also includes simple patterns well yeah, thats about it C+C as usual -Dan
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Skull Commander PJ Pioneer Joined: 03 August 2019 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1521	Posted: 03 August 2006 at 7:18am
	What's to crit - It looks awesome. I just love this bright, childish style. Fantastic.

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Monkey 'o Doom Commander Joined: 24 September 2005 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2994	Posted: 03 August 2006 at 8:31am
	I love how the colors really stick out but don't hurt your eyes. Great emulation of his style.
	RPG is numberwang.
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jalonso Admiral Joined: 29 November 2022 Online Status: Offline Posts: 13537	Posted: 03 August 2006 at 8:39am
	The sky is not pixelart, thus this is not pixelart.
	PJs FAQ <•> Sticky Reads
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Aleiav Commander Joined: 08 April 2016 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2380	Posted: 03 August 2006 at 9:56am
	His/Your shading technique seems so simple and yet it's so brilliant. Nice work. :) I love the colors and the design.
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Indigo Commander Joined: 20 April 2016 Online Status: Offline Posts: 174	Posted: 03 August 2006 at 10:48am
	Heh, thanks everybody for the kind comments. -Gives me warm fuzzies all over :) *Originally posted by jalonso* The sky is not pixelart, thus this is not pixelart. please dont say your serious. I realise that the sky isn't pixel-art. That is the only element in this screen shot that isn't. Appreciate the pixel art for what it is and if you have a problem with the CG sky, then ignore it. I'm not trying to decieve anyone here. The reason why I put it in there is to stay constant with Kenneth's style: kenneth's stuff: all of these have a CG background, but that doesn't take away the fact that he is a very awesome pixel artist. Anyway, if you dont like the CG -thats fine, dont comment on it. If you like (or dislike) the pixel art - thats fine too, please do comment on it. theres just no need to be a nazi over it when it was obviously done intentionally and without deception. You didn't comment at all on the pixelart that did exist, instead you just complained about what isn't. And besides, i still dont see how having a CG background gives reason to label this entire piece as NPA. Another reason why i post these screen shots is so you can compare the styles (how close did i get?) EDIT================== version without the CG background. Edited by Indigo - 03 August 2006 at 3:50pm
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cure Commander Joined: 23 March 2022 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2859	Posted: 03 August 2006 at 12:37pm
	The NPA background debate aside, I'd say you captured his stlye quite well. Bright, happy colors, cute characters, all the things you've mentioned in the description. That squirrel is despicably cute.
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fil_razorback Commander Joined: 17 December 2005 Online Status: Offline Posts: 215	Posted: 03 August 2006 at 3:12pm
	Yup, you got it. As I said on PP, I can't wait for Kenneth's comments.
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kaltsu Midshipman Joined: 19 June 2006 Location: Finland Online Status: Offline Posts: 41	Posted: 03 August 2006 at 3:32pm
	*Originally posted by Indigo* if you have a problem with the CG sky, then ignore it. How can you ignore it when it makes your eyes ache? *Originally posted by Indigo* if you dont like the CG -thats fine, dont comment on it. What weird kind of logic is that? "Hey I just pooped on your living room. It's ok to dislike it but please don't complain." *Originally posted by Indigo* If you like the pixel art - thats fine too, please do comment on it. So you accept only positive feedback? Huh? Okay I know you didn't mean it that way but it sure sounds like it. For the piece itself - quite nice little study and homage and even some nice pixels in it. You're lacking Kenneth's colorful imagination though. Gave it two points in the gallery. Edited by kaltsu - 03 August 2006 at 3:32pm
	Not now honey, I have a deadline.
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Indigo Commander Joined: 20 April 2016 Online Status: Offline Posts: 174	Posted: 03 August 2006 at 3:47pm
	no no no - your getting me all wrong, kaltsu - and i agree that i wasn't too clear about what i was saying. go agead an critique the pixel-art for good or bad. I'm just saying theres no need to doom this entire piece just because it has a CG background. That shouldn't mean you should ignore the pixel art in the piece which is what this forum is for. Sorry if I came off as an ass. oh, and i'm sorry it makes your eyes ache, I haven't heard a complaint about it before as most people think it's pleasant.
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kaltsu Midshipman Joined: 19 June 2006 Location: Finland Online Status: Offline Posts: 41	Posted: 03 August 2006 at 4:25pm
	Ok and forgive me being so harsh. I'm occasionally such a stubborn old school geek. "Everything should be like they were in eighties."
	Not now honey, I have a deadline.
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Brian the Great Commander RED! Joined: 03 March 2005 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 2221	Posted: 03 August 2006 at 4:52pm
	No need to lynch him because of some CG background- there's plenty of pixel art left to enjoy. Hell, I didn't even notice at first. "Hey I just pooped on your living room. It's ok to dislike it but please don't complain." I really don't get this analogy. Nobody is forcing you to look at it buddy. As for the actual piece, I think you captured the style brilliantly. I'd take a second look at the trees if I were you though. As with the pillars and other trees in Kenneth's own work you posted, there is a lightsource on both sides. The little purple house is also a bit too prominent for my likings, even though I love the looks of it. Keep up the good work.

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Saboteur Commander Joined: 29 January 2018 Online Status: Offline Posts: 888	Posted: 03 August 2006 at 5:09pm
	Enough. Angst. About. CG. Backgrounds. First off, I've gotta thank you for not just keeping this study to yerself. I personally lack the patience to figure out exactly what makes a peice look good, which probably holds me back stupid amounts. To have someone else point to certain things that work is phenomenally helpful, an' I've already begun to have a little more faith in sel-out. I think you've very well acheived both the colour and style of Ken's work, though a few bits of the outlining still irk me a little. Specific locations would be the highlighted edge of the tree (Marked in pink) and the head of the character itself. Also, the little acorns seem jaggedy. Before I get too far ahead of myself, I'll see if I can even make an edit that comes close to fixing these issues. Yeah, I did some very, very subtle damage. Change number one - the afforementioned tree-AA issue. I'd say just take it right out, because it makes it worse rather than better, imo. On the left in the pink square is the original, and without the AA is on the right in the square. Change number two. There was a dark line on top of the head of the squirrel that I found distracting. I lightened that bit of sel-out to the next shade down, as well as changing the further ear a bit and rounding the tail a little better. It seemed jaggedy to me, so I tried to fix it. You'll find "my" squirrel floating mysteriously in the air. Change number three. The acorn, as well as other things, seem to run into the edge of their box suddenly, making one sharp, straight line. The top of the squirrel (ears and tail stop along the same horiz. line) and the left side of the acorn seem to be the two culprits here. I tried to fix it on the acorn by again lightening the shade of the sel-out, as well as trying to round out the highlight a bit more. "My" acorn is on the right, and the original on the left On a final note, I agree with kaltsu about the lack of imagination. Ken's mockups have many things going on, usually, and little details that hint of traps or things that might just spring out and attack you. An example would be the half-circle thing in the plant on the right of his Doukutsu-bird-thing mockup, and the kid icarus shots with all kinds of things going on, not to mention a sparkly harp in there. He's also got more elaborate GUIs, which leave much to the imagination. It'd be an interesting experiment to add something to the GUI without yourself knowing what it was, and see what people say it is. Yeah, that's all I've got. Awesome, awesome work, and I really do look forward to more of these style studies.
	"I was minding my own business and walking across a pebbled path, and a Duck started giving me the business."
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Buzz Midshipman Joined: 13 June 2006 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 94	Posted: 03 August 2006 at 6:15pm
	If there was one thing I had to say about this, other than the fact that I really like it, I would say the colors leaned more toward your style than his. I've always love your color choices because of their subtle vibrancy (i know contradicting) and his colors had a bit more pop if you ask me.

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jalonso Admiral Joined: 29 November 2022 Online Status: Offline Posts: 13537	Posted: 03 August 2006 at 10:55pm
	I will not throw a Sharktrum* and just drop the matter. - 50 Respect points. *© ensellitis
	PJs FAQ <•> Sticky Reads
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Indigo Commander Joined: 20 April 2016 Online Status: Offline Posts: 174	Posted: 03 August 2006 at 10:56pm
	*Originally posted by jalonso* - 50 Respect points. -50 respect points? from me? :( sorry man
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jalonso Admiral Joined: 29 November 2022 Online Status: Offline Posts: 13537	Posted: 03 August 2006 at 11:15pm
	@indigo, I just said that in a general sense, not personally. I do like this and consider it a hybrid form of art. I do hybrids too, I just think its not OK for Pixeljoint, imho.
	PJs FAQ <•> Sticky Reads
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Saboteur Commander Joined: 29 January 2018 Online Status: Offline Posts: 888	Posted: 03 August 2006 at 11:43pm
	Ur ho.
	"I was minding my own business and walking across a pebbled path, and a Duck started giving me the business."
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Psychotic_Carp Commander Joined: 02 April 2005 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1008	Posted: 04 August 2006 at 5:30am
	I didnt even look at at the background at first with this piece but the fact that your capapble of doing a better background with pixel art makes me want to tell you to get your ass back to it and pixel a background
	got game?
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Buzz Midshipman Joined: 13 June 2006 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 94	Posted: 04 August 2006 at 5:43am
	All of the stuff that was submitted by the guy he was studying used a CG background and was accepted was it not?

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Larwick Commander Joined: 18 July 2024 Online Status: Offline Posts: 4015	Posted: 04 August 2006 at 9:45am
	There is no point in discussing the cg background here. The WIP area of the forum has already been used to show NPA anyway. Indigo wanted views on how well he has replicated kenneth fejer's style, and without the background he wouldn't have been able to do it as well. We all know Indigo has the skills to do one himself, but it wouldn't have suited what he was trying to achieve. Seeing as this is a pixel art community, if you wish to crit, i suggest you crit the pixel art only. Indigo even edited it to suit jalonsos needs, so i dont see why the argument should carry on. I'm not sure why i havent commented yet, this is great. I think Sab pointed out alot of the crits i would have :) Must say I really like that simple-looking health bar for some reason. Will there be an update?

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PixelSnader Commander Not a troll! Joined: 05 June 2014 Online Status: Offline Posts: 3194	Posted: 06 August 2006 at 11:48am
	one of the biggest stylistic things (which actually pretty minor) is his playing with saturation more. when i compare his bird mock with your squirrel mock, what i notice is the grass. his grass is more obvious. this is caused by makeing the adjacent ground a bit darker and less saturated then you do. and when i look at the CGed BGs i notice the same saturation thing. yours is a bit brighter compared to his, causing his sprites and platforms to pop just a bit more. put very simply, blunt and exagerrated: yours is all bright and happy colours, and he has used lower saturation to contrast.
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