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Acherhar
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Quote Acherhar Replybullet Topic: First Joint Apartment, WIP
    Posted: 02 November 2007 at 7:48pm

After a few hours of work, I have come this far with my apartment.

 
What I want to do now is fill in the windows, but everytime I try draw glass, it comes out horribly. The blue lines are non-transparent divisions between the panes. I have already asked for advice, but I just can't seem to understand how to draw windows. Advice on any other part of the piece would of course be greatly accepted.
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jalonso
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Quote jalonso Replybullet Posted: 02 November 2007 at 8:03pm
Its just lovely all around.
Why not try a fade with angles on them? (real quick edit, brb)

I would also bring the balcony to go all the way to the right (out of scene).
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Quote Acherhar Replybullet Posted: 02 November 2007 at 8:11pm
Thanks jalonso . I'll definitely try extending the balcony, since I realize that it does look small. Unfortunately, I'll have to stop for tonight, my eyelids are closing.  
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jalonso
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Quote jalonso Replybullet Posted: 02 November 2007 at 8:22pm
So this is just a gradient. Please don't follow that.
I just wanted to show that only one side of the windows with a ligther fade give the right illusion and might work for you.

ps: this is a bitch to do one pixel at a time. Good night

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Acherhar
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Quote Acherhar Replybullet Posted: 02 November 2007 at 8:31pm

Ooh, I never thought of leaving the left side blank, but it makes complete sense, and saves a lot of time. I really like the gradient effect, but the problem is I only have MS Paint . What I tried doing, which was mind-numbing and took ages, was averaging the saturation and luminosity values of the glass and the background color. I'll post the awful result in a second.

EDIT: Here it is, as you can see, the window that I did is on the left, and the pattern I followed is on the right.
 


Edited by Acherhar - 02 November 2007 at 8:40pm
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jalonso
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Quote jalonso Replybullet Posted: 02 November 2007 at 8:34pm
It is doable as pixelart using Paint. If you notice the line goes across at 90 degrees from bottom left to top right of the windows (iso line). From this point you can ramp every color down one shade. Once you get that since the water is random-ish you can dither the hell out of the middle part...ya know.


*MSPaint is the true pixelart program and there is no shame in it.


Edited by jalonso - 02 November 2007 at 8:35pm
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Acherhar
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Quote Acherhar Replybullet Posted: 02 November 2007 at 8:38pm
Hehe, It'll be a while before I get good at this >.<
 
EDIT: Ah yes, I just realized the line, but I have no clue how to make the shading have a bluish tinge.


Edited by Acherhar - 02 November 2007 at 8:39pm
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jalonso
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Quote jalonso Replybullet Posted: 02 November 2007 at 8:40pm
The thing with that style of glass is that it only works when whats behind it is simple lines. here with complex water and the bridge and stuff I merely thought the fade would make for better glass. The room overall is really nice and it would be great if you did make the glass better.
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Acherhar
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Quote Acherhar Replybullet Posted: 02 November 2007 at 8:42pm
Thank you, and I see what you mean, and I agree the fade looks a LOT better than what I did.

Edited by Acherhar - 02 November 2007 at 8:41pm
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jalonso
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Quote jalonso Replybullet Posted: 02 November 2007 at 8:43pm
As for the tinge color. Use the gradient I made for you and use it to pick colors from. This would be a new color ramp. Because the effect I show is glare and not reflection you probabbly alrady have colors you can use from the interior. Give it a go ; )
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Acherhar
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Quote Acherhar Replybullet Posted: 02 November 2007 at 8:45pm
Thanks a bunch! I'll definitely try it out first thing tomorrow morning, thank you so much for the advice!
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jalonso
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Quote jalonso Replybullet Posted: 02 November 2007 at 8:50pm
np 
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greenraven
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Quote greenraven Replybullet Posted: 02 November 2007 at 9:55pm
I like it.

And the only downside of using MSpaint is when you have to work with animation. It screws up the colors when saving GIFs, so you have to go back and fix it manually.

That is the ONLY bad thing I have to say about MSpaint.

The few, the pround, the MSpaint users.
"pwnage comes with patience, practice and planning." ~ Jalonso   
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Acherhar
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Quote Acherhar Replybullet Posted: 03 November 2007 at 7:55am
Thanks green  And I really hate how saving as a GIF does that, but I never knew you cold fix it. If you recolor after saving it as a GIF, wouldn't it just turn those colors ugly again after saving the changes? Also, is there a good free program that can put together animations, and make things transparent?
 
PS: Jal, I don't know how to do the windows with the gradient, do you want me to just leave it the way you did it? Or should I make it a less smooth transition? If it's the latter, I don't know how to choose the colors to make it look good
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jalonso
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Quote jalonso Replybullet Posted: 03 November 2007 at 6:34pm
I'll make a little section for you and choose colors then you can do the rest, yes?
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Quote Acherhar Replybullet Posted: 03 November 2007 at 7:06pm
I'd really appreciate that, thanks! Sorry for being such a bother >.<
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jalonso
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Quote jalonso Replybullet Posted: 03 November 2007 at 7:08pm
Not a bother, ever!

I'll do it tomorrow during my football game watching and will post it ;)
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Quote Acherhar Replybullet Posted: 03 November 2007 at 7:13pm
No no, I really don't want you to get distracted because of this, only do it in your free time, but thank you so much .
 
PS: Do you know of a some good, free programs that can do transparency and animation?


Edited by Acherhar - 03 November 2007 at 7:13pm
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jalonso
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Quote jalonso Replybullet Posted: 03 November 2007 at 7:24pm
There is Giffy for transparency its in the FAQ page in the gallery.
iaza.com does animations (15 frames) and transparency.
Check the resource section for other PC free stuff (I'm a mac user so don't really know).
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greenraven
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Quote greenraven Replybullet Posted: 03 November 2007 at 7:28pm
Originally posted by Acherhar

 
PS: Do you know of a some good, free programs that can do transparency and animation?


Here's what I do: MSpaint to draw, Giffy for transparencies, unFreeze to animate.

It's a little redundant, but it gets the job done.
"pwnage comes with patience, practice and planning." ~ Jalonso   
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Acherhar
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Quote Acherhar Replybullet Posted: 03 November 2007 at 7:29pm
Ah, thank you very much to both of you!
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greenraven
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Quote greenraven Replybullet Posted: 03 November 2007 at 7:31pm
No prob, just happy to help.
"pwnage comes with patience, practice and planning." ~ Jalonso   
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jalonso
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Quote jalonso Replybullet Posted: 04 November 2007 at 9:35am
I regret that I found having to do more than I expected as other issues came up while closely inspecting your pixel. Here goes...


A- Your original -
B- Shows colors that are simply not needed. 39 colors make sense but 48 do not. This is where palette unification (a must pixelart skill) comes in. 8 of these colors are from the Joint template. No reason why these may not be from your colors. Also notice in the palettes that your colors are linear. This means they ramp but go nowhere cohesively. Once optimized manually to 39 colors I them made the palette circular. The reason for this is because this project calls for blending so a circular palette allows for better color choices and balance. Notice that in 'G' I ended up using only 36 of the 39. I left the circle for you to use when you recolor your room. You may of course add or take away as you need. Nothing here is an order, merely suggestions and ways to improve overall your pixel skills.
C- Shows the general glass/glare lineart in color.
D- Shows the are where the FX will go.
E- A blend of C & D to work from. This shows which areas need the lower part of the color ramp and which areas remain intact.
F- Here I cleaned up the exterior which your original was too busy for an FX such as glass. When you make yours I would fix the balcony and move the building over some so that the are clearer and not so hidden by the window frames. Also notice the table is shown as a circle. This is simply to break the overall boxiness you have going on. It can be any shape but square is just boring.
G- Shows my version of your room using 36 colors with windows 'glared' and the template reworked to the palette. Many things can be refined and I hope that you do so. Your room is very nice and probably didn't ever need all this fuss. I do respect that you are trying to improve your own work and for this reason helping out in whatever way I can has been no bother at all.

Now rework your room using the most awesome pixelart skill of them all...patience

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Acherhar
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Quote Acherhar Replybullet Posted: 04 November 2007 at 2:25pm

=OOOOO

That's amazing!!!! Thank you sooooo much for doing that, I completely understand how to do glass now. I love the way you edited my room, it's completely perfect! I don't think I'll get it to look that way by myself unless I copy every pixel. It's seriously incredible, it looks so nice and smooth. I'll definitely try to edit the room now, and see what comes up. Thank you sooo much! 

PS: I really just want to submit your version and put "Massively edited by jalonso." It's just so good!


Edited by Acherhar - 04 November 2007 at 2:27pm
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jalonso
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Quote jalonso Replybullet Posted: 04 November 2007 at 7:29pm
It will be way better when you do it because its your original idea.
I both know you can do it yourself and look forward to it.
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Acherhar
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Quote Acherhar Replybullet Posted: 05 November 2007 at 4:00pm
Ok, I'm finally done, at least I think so:
 
(EDIT: This is the same corrected picture you'll find a few posts down) 
 
I know it looks extremely similar to jalonso's version, but it's supposed to. I didn't copy a single pixel though. I forced myself to not look at jal's version while completely editing mine, and when I was done I was really surprised to see how I made almost the exact same color choices as him.
I hope you're not mad that it's so similar .
 
PS: I don't know the color count, but I'm positive that it was less than the amount that I used before, thanks so much for letting me use the palette jalonso!


Edited by Acherhar - 05 November 2007 at 6:11pm
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Monkey 'o Doom
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Quote Monkey 'o Doom Replybullet Posted: 05 November 2007 at 4:14pm
You've got 45 by IrfanView's count. One thing I might suggest is giving the tiles a more 3D effect by highlighting some edges or selectively lightening part of the grout (sp?). Maybe just lighten those grey grout (sp again?) lines so you have less contrast within that texture; it gives the piece an overly busy look IMO.

RPG is numberwang.
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Quote Acherhar Replybullet Posted: 05 November 2007 at 4:23pm
Thanks Monkey, I'll go try that .
 
EDIT: Hmm, 45 colors... I was positive I used only the colors on jalonso's palette, and that was only 40. An extra color might have been white, because that's only on the outside of the room, and I forgot to make it transparent.


Edited by Acherhar - 05 November 2007 at 4:39pm
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Monkey 'o Doom
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Quote Monkey 'o Doom Replybullet Posted: 05 November 2007 at 4:57pm
Here are your images, side-by-side, with palettes as well:
 
Looks like you have a few extra greys and maybe a few other additional or changed colors. Naturally some of those are intentional and part of your work, but you can probably eliminate the greys pretty easily. Also, just a little tip/trick: In Paint, if you're not sure where all the pixels of a color are but want to replace them, right-click with the eyedropper on the color you WANT to have in the end, then cut (ctrl+X) the image you want to replace pixels of the other color in. Paste it and select with eyedropper (right click again) the color you want to REPLACE with the previously selected color, which will have been the BG before you pasted. After eyedropping, undo (ctrl+Z) and select the transparent paste mode (the icon where the dotted line around the green cube does not contain a white BG) if not already selected. Paste into the same position it was in before and the pixels will be changed. Hopefully I was clear; it's quite a useful trick.


Edited by Monkey 'o Doom - 05 November 2007 at 4:58pm

RPG is numberwang.
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Acherhar
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Quote Acherhar Replybullet Posted: 05 November 2007 at 5:22pm
Wow, sorry for doubting you! I am fixing that now, and thanks for the tip .
 
Hehe, I just realized that there's only like one or two pixels of some of those extra colors, and that's from when I was recoloring, thank you so much for pointing the palette differences out!
 
Umpteenth edit, corrected picture:
 
 
 
 
 


Edited by Acherhar - 05 November 2007 at 6:01pm
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Monkey 'o Doom
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Quote Monkey 'o Doom Replybullet Posted: 05 November 2007 at 5:52pm
No problem. The nice arrangements of the colors are courtesy of mtPaint, a great freeware program for messing with PA palettes, though some other aspects are a bit crippled (can't copy/paste and select/drag is iffy at best).
 
EDIT: 36 now. Good job indeed!


Edited by Monkey 'o Doom - 05 November 2007 at 6:52pm

RPG is numberwang.
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Acherhar
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Quote Acherhar Replybullet Posted: 05 November 2007 at 5:56pm
Hehe thanks, I had to keep editing the message above because it kept giving an outdated picture.
 
I'm going to see if it gives the completely corrected picture now.
 
EDIT: Ok, the completely corrected picture should be in the post above yours. And thanks again for checking before .


Edited by Acherhar - 05 November 2007 at 6:02pm
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jalonso
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Quote jalonso Replybullet Posted: 05 November 2007 at 7:43pm
Man you've done a really nice job of learning things from my edit and yet pixelling it on your own with just the kind of pixels I expected to find especially in the ocean.
I had left a little bit of crap hidden to kinda test you and you passed. This is not a copy of anything I did. It is fully yours and NO CREDIT should ever go to me now, except for the help with the palette in circular form instead of linear.

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Quote Acherhar Replybullet Posted: 06 November 2007 at 5:04am
Thank you so much jalonso, I really appreciate all the help and advice you've given me, so i'm definitely going to credit you for that! And Monkey, thanks once again for counting the colors, I really want to learn how to reduce the palette and you've helped me along .
 
EDIT: Just testing out if the transparency worked:
 
 
EDIT: Woot


Edited by Acherhar - 06 November 2007 at 5:11am
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Quote jalonso Replybullet Posted: 06 November 2007 at 5:15am
Off Topic. The weapon set you added to the gallery also suffer from color madness. Its a very good pixelling habit to keep your palette in check. It really does make for cleaner pixels.
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Quote Acherhar Replybullet Posted: 06 November 2007 at 5:30am
Weapon set? Do you mean the badges? If you do, I think I know why. It's because I made those ages ago, before I knew that the amount of colors used counted.
 
Also off topic: When I try to submit the room, it doesn't let me, what adress should I use for the image?
 
EDIT: Never mind, I went to Iaza, made the image transparent, and then saved to my desktop. Then I submitted the image that was saved on my desktop to the gallery, is this the way it's supposed to be done?


Edited by Acherhar - 06 November 2007 at 6:44am
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Quote jalonso Replybullet Posted: 07 November 2007 at 5:03am
yup.
Its in the 19th floor :)
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Quote Acherhar Replybullet Posted: 07 November 2007 at 6:34am
Thank you so much
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