WIP (Work In Progress)
 Pixel Joint Forum : Pixel Art : WIP (Work In Progress)
Message Icon Topic: WIP: Portrait Post Reply Post New Topic
Page  of 2 Next >>
Author Message
Hapiel
Rear Admiral
Rear Admiral
Avatar

Joined: 14 April 2022
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3264
Quote Hapiel Replybullet Topic: WIP: Portrait
    Posted: 23 March 2009 at 10:56am
Yes I know, I have too many projects at the moment.
But don't worry, I can handle it, I might even make a (worthy) weekly challenge entry.

Anyway, I do not need your critique on this thing so much. Id prefer your support much more.
What I am going to do? Ill keep it a mystery for as long as possible. For your pleasure
The first one who Guesses what I am going to do gets a cookie :)

Anyway lets continue to the artwork



Do not bother to discuss the choice of colors. I wont change them anyway :)

My restrictions:

38x38
3 colors (these 3)
Max 635 pixels of the darkest shade
Max 455 pixels of the middle shade
Max 368 pixel of the lightest shade.

Currently I use
634 dark,
455 mid,
355 light.

All your comments are welcome, but please keep in mind that I might not be able to modify everything because of these restrictions.

I need your support to finish this. In return ill keep posting updates :)

MrLollige

IP IP Logged
Damian
Commander
Commander
Avatar

Joined: 23 December 2014
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 455
Quote Damian Replybullet Posted: 24 March 2009 at 1:19pm
To be honest your almost finished! there are a few problems that you should take in to mind though. But since you don't want to hear them I'll tell you them anyway.

Contrast...there hardly is any!

facial anatomy, the the nose should be round about in line with the bottom of the ear. the mouth should be smack bang in the middle of the nose and the chin.

I made an edit and your probably going to hate me for it. But it seems that words won't help when you've made up your mind. So here I took your pixel baby to pieces and due to a few minor edits I got this:



Not much done and the ear on the left can be fixed.
Go finish this now.
IP IP Logged
Hapiel
Rear Admiral
Rear Admiral
Avatar

Joined: 14 April 2022
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3264
Quote Hapiel Replybullet Posted: 25 March 2009 at 9:12am
Of course I won't hate you for it! Actually, I even really like the raised nose :)
For the record: Your piece did contain however 2 light pixels too much ;)

To be honest your almost finished!

Ha, I have just started ;)

Contrast...there hardly is any!

As I said, I can not change my palette :). Yes, the contrast will be a problem later on.

Anyway, due to a little material problem my progress is delayed. (yes, materials for pixel art o/O)
Most of what I am going to use now is here, with exception of the canvas xD
But because I have bought quite a lot of stuff already there is no way back. So I will finish this, no matter how long it takes.

Wondering already what I am up to?
I might post some pictures tonight, because I am planning to start on cleaning my pixels :)

New image:







Edited by Lollige - 25 March 2009 at 9:12am
IP IP Logged
vampireslug
Commander
Commander
Avatar

Joined: 16 February 2009
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 187
Quote vampireslug Replybullet Posted: 25 March 2009 at 9:50am
The ear still seems to be off - it seems too low on the head until I zoom in; I think the shadow on the cheek is blending in too much with it.  I really like the palette restriction though, it's really working.
"The Earth starts to rumble, world powers fall. A 'warring for the heavens, a peaceful man stands tall...." - Mustaine. ©1992 Screen Gems/EMI
IP IP Logged
Damian
Commander
Commander
Avatar

Joined: 23 December 2014
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 455
Quote Damian Replybullet Posted: 25 March 2009 at 1:58pm
I agree, small pallets are like a fetish to me...almost like bondage.

But I still don't like the choice of colours. Contrast...
Now where's this picture you making with materials. I presume paper block cuttings on a canvas are going to appear some time?

Also you say you've only started? so is it going to be like a huge project with loads of pieces with this colour pallet stuck on to a piece of canvas or what's going on?

Here, fixed the ear kinda

You should really know your facial anatomy!
IP IP Logged
Hapiel
Rear Admiral
Rear Admiral
Avatar

Joined: 14 April 2022
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3264
Quote Hapiel Replybullet Posted: 25 March 2009 at 3:01pm
Yes yes, there is quite a lot of things I should ;). Im going to college next year, I am quite sure things like this will improve quickly there :)

Anyway, as I said: The first who guesses gets a cookie.
But, if I would be cutting paper blocks, than why would I have the weird restrictions on the amount of pixels in a specific color? :)
Paper would not need to get cleaned as well :).

I was not able to do as I told I might would tonight, but I will tomorrow for sure, and most likely even more. Picture worthy stuff

IP IP Logged
Damian
Commander
Commander
Avatar

Joined: 23 December 2014
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 455
Quote Damian Replybullet Posted: 25 March 2009 at 11:15pm
I'm going to college too. But I can't do art there as I didn't do it as a GCSE. Looks like I'll be teaching myself for life XD

Well, Sounds fun. Restrictions and cleaning? Looking forward to see.
IP IP Logged
Club Beuker
Commander
Commander
Avatar

Joined: 29 January 2007
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 513
Quote Club Beuker Replybullet Posted: 26 March 2009 at 1:50am
I think you just found your old box of ministeck and there were so much blocks of each color in it. Am I right? Get cookie? Me wants!

But congrats on getting to college next year! (Thought you were a lot older though )
Without me, it's just aweso
IP IP Logged
Hapiel
Rear Admiral
Rear Admiral
Avatar

Joined: 14 April 2022
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3264
Quote Hapiel Replybullet Posted: 26 March 2009 at 5:31am
No, ministeck would not be original enough for me ;). Also, there are more than 3 colors on that right? However, it is true that my number of pixels limit is because I have so many things of that color.
well color... Actually, all my pixels have the same color xD

I thought you were younger :p

Anyway, I tried to clean my dark pixels, but that did not had the amount of effect I wanted. It did deliver me some nice pictures. But posting those would remove all mysteries ;)
I am not sure yet if I am going to clean my lighter pixels too.

All the stuff I am going to use:


Hehe, hard to see what it is right?
I actually started measuring things too. Might start pasting today even.
Ill keep you updated!





IP IP Logged
Club Beuker
Commander
Commander
Avatar

Joined: 29 January 2007
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 513
Quote Club Beuker Replybullet Posted: 26 March 2009 at 5:54am
Are you making a piece of mosaic? That is awesome!
Without me, it's just aweso
IP IP Logged
Hapiel
Rear Admiral
Rear Admiral
Avatar

Joined: 14 April 2022
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3264
Quote Hapiel Replybullet Posted: 26 March 2009 at 6:23am
Mosaic would not be very original too. Of course, dithering in mosaic is new, but there are a thousand of mosaic artists doing this much better than I ever can do xD

Anyway, I really got myself in to something that takes a lot of time.
The progress consists of 2 things:
Preparing pixels
Placing pixels

I have just started on preparing pixels.. I can prepare a full row of 38 pixels in about 6 minutes if I do it very quickly. That means I will spend at least 4 hours on preparing pixels. Now I believe that placing pixels will take about 1.5 times as long.. so that makes.. 10 hours of working.
Oh that sounds doable. But when I am actually working, it goes soo slow xD
10 hours of working on a 38x38 piece. I will get patient for sure :). But placing pixels is much easier than preparing pixels. So as soon as preparing is ready, I can just place a few pixels whenever I get home or so, and I don't have to sit down for at least 10 minutes.

My feet, together with my work


Zoomed in on my work, you can see the pixel preparation :)



Ill give a tiny hint: Whatever happens to this project, the result will be valuable.

IP IP Logged
Club Beuker
Commander
Commander
Avatar

Joined: 29 January 2007
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 513
Quote Club Beuker Replybullet Posted: 26 March 2009 at 6:26am
So you're using double sided tape to stick stuff on it which would be valuable... valuables? Like bronze, silver and gold (hence the three colors)?
Without me, it's just aweso
IP IP Logged
Hapiel
Rear Admiral
Rear Admiral
Avatar

Joined: 14 April 2022
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3264
Quote Hapiel Replybullet Posted: 26 March 2009 at 6:37am
You are getting closer

Actually, all my pixels have the same color xD

Take in mind that everything I say is a hint ;)

The squares you see are photo stickers. Which actually are precut pieces of double sided tape yes :)
IP IP Logged
vampireslug
Commander
Commander
Avatar

Joined: 16 February 2009
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 187
Quote vampireslug Replybullet Posted: 26 March 2009 at 7:10am
Are you making a picture using coins or something like that?
"The Earth starts to rumble, world powers fall. A 'warring for the heavens, a peaceful man stands tall...." - Mustaine. ©1992 Screen Gems/EMI
IP IP Logged
Club Beuker
Commander
Commander
Avatar

Joined: 29 January 2007
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 513
Quote Club Beuker Replybullet Posted: 26 March 2009 at 8:02am
Well.. I think I can see 3 cups on the first picture you've posted with what looks like 5 euro cents coins.. But I don't get the 3 color effect (or you are using 4 coins for dark areas and 1 coin for light areas) <---- note to self: that's called dithering idiot
Without me, it's just aweso
IP IP Logged
Hapiel
Rear Admiral
Rear Admiral
Avatar

Joined: 14 April 2022
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3264
Quote Hapiel Replybullet Posted: 26 March 2009 at 1:46pm
Ah, club beuker gets the first cookie! The first who solves the 3 color problem gets the second one :). But everything you need to know for it is already been said by me :)


IP IP Logged
Club Beuker
Commander
Commander
Avatar

Joined: 29 January 2007
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 513
Quote Club Beuker Replybullet Posted: 27 March 2009 at 1:33am
Ok so you're using new (shiny) coins and older (not so shiny anymore coins) and something in between?
Without me, it's just aweso
IP IP Logged
vampireslug
Commander
Commander
Avatar

Joined: 16 February 2009
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 187
Quote vampireslug Replybullet Posted: 27 March 2009 at 2:55am

If the picture were made up of pixels that were 4 coins then you'd have a 4 coin pixel for light, 2 coins for half-tone, and no coins for dark... that's my best guess.

"The Earth starts to rumble, world powers fall. A 'warring for the heavens, a peaceful man stands tall...." - Mustaine. ©1992 Screen Gems/EMI
IP IP Logged
Hapiel
Rear Admiral
Rear Admiral
Avatar

Joined: 14 April 2022
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3264
Quote Hapiel Replybullet Posted: 27 March 2009 at 4:18am
Both are wrong.
Last night (yes, night....) I tried a different way of cleaning my coins, and it worked extremely well. Within 15 minutes, every single coin was as good as new! Really, they shine and look like pure copper, no dull coins are left.
It really feels great to have your hand go trough all those shiny coins, but I can not get that feeling on pictures...
IP IP Logged
vampireslug
Commander
Commander
Avatar

Joined: 16 February 2009
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 187
Quote vampireslug Replybullet Posted: 27 March 2009 at 4:50am
No cookie for me... how soon until you can start making the pixels?
"The Earth starts to rumble, world powers fall. A 'warring for the heavens, a peaceful man stands tall...." - Mustaine. ©1992 Screen Gems/EMI
IP IP Logged
Club Beuker
Commander
Commander
Avatar

Joined: 29 January 2007
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 513
Quote Club Beuker Replybullet Posted: 27 March 2009 at 5:12am
Well well, we have a little Scrooge McDuck here . But still I can't figure out the different color approach. Or are you tilting the coins in different directions?
Without me, it's just aweso
IP IP Logged
Hapiel
Rear Admiral
Rear Admiral
Avatar

Joined: 14 April 2022
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3264
Quote Hapiel Replybullet Posted: 27 March 2009 at 9:25am
I just added 3 rows. that is 114 stickies placed. 1254 still to go.

About my drawing it self, I am thinking of changing it. It is a nice portrait, but not too original. I was thinking that I maybe should do scrooge mcduck, or any stereotype wealthy guy.
NOT THE MONA LISA, everyone does that nowadays >.<

Any suggestions? (I hate taking suggestions for projects like this, but they might inspire me to the perfect idea while I than still have the feeling it was my idea :) )

Club beuker, don't think to difficult. The 'The more white the less coin' idea is quite close to what I am doing.

IP IP Logged
vampireslug
Commander
Commander
Avatar

Joined: 16 February 2009
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 187
Quote vampireslug Replybullet Posted: 27 March 2009 at 9:45am
How many coins per pixel?
 
Youe should do the mustache guy (Uncle Moneybags?) from the game Monopoly... that would work well.
"The Earth starts to rumble, world powers fall. A 'warring for the heavens, a peaceful man stands tall...." - Mustaine. ©1992 Screen Gems/EMI
IP IP Logged
Hapiel
Rear Admiral
Rear Admiral
Avatar

Joined: 14 April 2022
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3264
Quote Hapiel Replybullet Posted: 27 March 2009 at 1:24pm
Yeah, thats the steriotype I had in mind. (although I did not think of the mustache, but a high hat and euro signs in his eyes.)

1 coin per pixel.

EDIT:
1102 to go


Edited by Lollige - 27 March 2009 at 4:51pm
IP IP Logged
Souly
Commander
Commander
Avatar

Joined: 13 December 2020
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2451
Quote Souly Replybullet Posted: 27 March 2009 at 4:54pm

Your eyes are too high on his head.
The top of his head is too small.

It looks quite messy to me.
You dropped right into detail and volumes without actually getting the lines right.


I am the jesus of PJ.
IP IP Logged
Hapiel
Rear Admiral
Rear Admiral
Avatar

Joined: 14 April 2022
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3264
Quote Hapiel Replybullet Posted: 28 March 2009 at 2:45am

I suppose I fixed most here.


A quick test for another design, which reminded me how hard it was to get the color counts right.
IP IP Logged
Club Beuker
Commander
Commander
Avatar

Joined: 29 January 2007
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 513
Quote Club Beuker Replybullet Posted: 28 March 2009 at 10:33am
Your using depth right? 1 coin for darker areas and a 3 coin stack for darker areas.
Without me, it's just aweso
IP IP Logged
Hapiel
Rear Admiral
Rear Admiral
Avatar

Joined: 14 April 2022
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3264
Quote Hapiel Replybullet Posted: 28 March 2009 at 10:52am
Whoa, that would make me need to put stickies on coins, and again: Why would I be limited in the amount of light pixels?
Just think way simpler, the answer is very easy!

I have just emptied box 2 of my boxes of stickies, which means I have put down at least 1000 stickies. I have done really a lot of work today! I hope to be finished tonight or tomorrow!

IP IP Logged
geminoid
Commander
Commander
Avatar

Joined: 04 June 2008
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 121
Quote geminoid Replybullet Posted: 29 March 2009 at 12:57am
i would use gum or super glue


Edited by geminoid - 29 March 2009 at 12:57am
IP IP Logged
Hapiel
Rear Admiral
Rear Admiral
Avatar

Joined: 14 April 2022
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3264
Quote Hapiel Replybullet Posted: 29 March 2009 at 4:36am
No second cookies are given out.

Geminoid, I thought so in the beginning too, but I did not for 2 reasons:
I would not be able to easily move misplaced coins
With these stickers, I know exactly where to place my coins.
Because I use 1 cent, 2 cent and 5 cent coins I can not place the coins directly next to each other and expect them to be at the right place. I would than have 2 options: Or just go place them and at the bottom nothing would be lined up perfectly anymore, or I could for every coin measure the exact spot.

At last, the stickers are very thin, and I can not have drops of glue all around by accident.




Edited by Lollige - 29 March 2009 at 4:53am
IP IP Logged
mappower
Seaman
Seaman
Avatar

Joined: 24 March 2009
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 17
Quote mappower Replybullet Posted: 29 March 2009 at 5:40am
Looks very cool and original!!I'm looking forward to see the end result.
IP IP Logged
Hapiel
Rear Admiral
Rear Admiral
Avatar

Joined: 14 April 2022
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3264
Quote Hapiel Replybullet Posted: 29 March 2009 at 7:54am
I just finished placing stickies, all 1444 are on my board!



The artist at work:





I will start placing the coins now :D


EDIT:
Placing coins goes horrible. It seems I am a bit in bad luck: The coins do not always attach to the stickers. Actually, just a few of 'm do attach. This is because of the edge on the coins, even the print does not matter much.
Anyway, my solution now is putting a second sticky on the first sticky. This works, but it really slows down my progress. Also I will have to buy 1000 more stickies.
It takes at least 5 times as long to place a coin than a sticky. I calculated the stickies would take around 4 hours, so that means placing coins is going to take me 20 hours! omg.

Any suggestions on what I could easily do to make the coins thicker in the middle? I tried glue from a stick, but that did not work.


Edited by Lollige - 29 March 2009 at 8:42am
IP IP Logged
Club Beuker
Commander
Commander
Avatar

Joined: 29 January 2007
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 513
Quote Club Beuker Replybullet Posted: 30 March 2009 at 1:46am
Ha! See you never said you had 1's and 2's too! I thought you only had 5's. And ewww at the nekkid feet .

But hell, man that looks like a painful job you're doing there. You might want to go to a Gamma and buy some 24,563 second glue, or buy a glue gun and put a drop of that stuff underneath each coin because I don't think the coins will stay on there if you lift the board.


Edited by Club Beuker - 30 March 2009 at 1:46am
Without me, it's just aweso
IP IP Logged
Hapiel
Rear Admiral
Rear Admiral
Avatar

Joined: 14 April 2022
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3264
Quote Hapiel Replybullet Posted: 30 March 2009 at 3:43am
oh yes, if they are on, there is no way you can get them of without putting your nails behind them and pulling hard :)
Indeed a painful job, and I never said I had 5's either, you did :)
 
My feet are nekkid because I dont want my work to get dirty. I wear too short clothes because I had used these for painting too earlier that weekend. And its yellow because.... I am yellow xD
IP IP Logged
Slemboll
Midshipman
Midshipman
Avatar

Joined: 13 January 2009
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 61
Quote Slemboll Replybullet Posted: 30 March 2009 at 10:56am
this looks reeeealy cool but isnt it hard to do with coins ?? they dont come in wery many colours :P
IP IP Logged
Club Beuker
Commander
Commander
Avatar

Joined: 29 January 2007
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 513
Quote Club Beuker Replybullet Posted: 31 March 2009 at 12:41am
Originally posted by Slemboll

this looks reeeealy cool but isnt it hard to do with coins ?? they dont come in wery many colours :P


Like he said before, it's gonna be like an optical illusion using three different size coins with the same color.
Without me, it's just aweso
IP IP Logged
Hapiel
Rear Admiral
Rear Admiral
Avatar

Joined: 14 April 2022
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3264
Quote Hapiel Replybullet Posted: 31 March 2009 at 2:01am
Indeed I am. It is hard to see the difference now, but on the camera where I had a very small image the effect was visible already! Ill just have to wait until more is finished, and than take a look at it from a distance :)

I just finished the third row, for the next row ill use a stopwatch to see how long it takes. (LONG!)


IP IP Logged
vampireslug
Commander
Commander
Avatar

Joined: 16 February 2009
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 187
Quote vampireslug Replybullet Posted: 31 March 2009 at 3:22am
Wow, you're pretty industrious... big undertaking but should be VERY cool when it's finished.  Great idea.
"The Earth starts to rumble, world powers fall. A 'warring for the heavens, a peaceful man stands tall...." - Mustaine. ©1992 Screen Gems/EMI
IP IP Logged
Hapiel
Rear Admiral
Rear Admiral
Avatar

Joined: 14 April 2022
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3264
Quote Hapiel Replybullet Posted: 31 March 2009 at 7:49am
The last line took me 24 minutes.
4 rows done now.

It means that I have around 14 more hours to go.. :p
IP IP Logged
Peach
Commander
Commander
Avatar

Joined: 08 May 2008
Location: Italy
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 239
Quote Peach Replybullet Posted: 31 March 2009 at 11:01am
whoa lollige... congrats this is very interesting
looking forward to see the finished result :)
IP IP Logged
Metaru
Commander
Commander
Avatar

Joined: 03 February 2020
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3305
Quote Metaru Replybullet Posted: 31 March 2009 at 12:54pm
you still look like a chick to me dan.

D:
I ate leel's babies
IP IP Logged
Club Beuker
Commander
Commander
Avatar

Joined: 29 January 2007
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 513
Quote Club Beuker Replybullet Posted: 01 April 2009 at 1:04am
Btw, who took the picture of you and your nekkid feet?
Without me, it's just aweso
IP IP Logged
Hapiel
Rear Admiral
Rear Admiral
Avatar

Joined: 14 April 2022
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3264
Quote Hapiel Replybullet Posted: 01 April 2009 at 3:55am
My brother, I complained about not having any pictures of myself working (with nekkid feet). Yesterday someone said ewww your feet too btw. They always are nekkid. (and so they get ewwww). But the person who said that should not complain. Because of what she did with her own feet.
Anway, back on topic:
...
ill make some more rows -_-
IP IP Logged
hsn2555
Commander
Commander
Avatar

Joined: 15 September 2008
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 73
Quote hsn2555 Replybullet Posted: 01 April 2009 at 4:30am
can't wait to see the finished result
keep going
IP IP Logged
TMH
Commander
Commander
Avatar

Joined: 28 December 2008
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 291
Quote TMH Replybullet Posted: 13 April 2009 at 4:10pm
are you still working on this?
IP IP Logged
Hapiel
Rear Admiral
Rear Admiral
Avatar

Joined: 14 April 2022
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3264
Quote Hapiel Replybullet Posted: 13 April 2009 at 11:15pm
Well, I wanted to work the whole weekend on this, sunday and monday mostly, but I got stuck saterday evening when I ran out of stickies.
5.5 rows done, ill be buying stickies today, but it will go slow again until over 2 weeks the weekend. Every second weekend I have time! Ill post pictures soon :)
IP IP Logged
Delfos
Midshipman
Midshipman
Avatar

Joined: 13 October 2014
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 76
Quote Delfos Replybullet Posted: 14 April 2009 at 6:19am
I've always wanted to do some pixel-kind experiment like this!
Good luck man, it will look awesome!
And my deviant is..
http://delfos1.deviantart.com
IP IP Logged
vampireslug
Commander
Commander
Avatar

Joined: 16 February 2009
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 187
Quote vampireslug Replybullet Posted: 21 April 2009 at 6:10am
Any progress?  I'm curious to see how far you've gotten.
"The Earth starts to rumble, world powers fall. A 'warring for the heavens, a peaceful man stands tall...." - Mustaine. ©1992 Screen Gems/EMI
IP IP Logged
Hapiel
Rear Admiral
Rear Admiral
Avatar

Joined: 14 April 2022
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3264
Quote Hapiel Replybullet Posted: 21 April 2009 at 7:00am
as I said, next weekend ill work on it again, a lot most likely, and I have 2 weeks of vacation mostly unfilled after that, so I expect it to be at least half done afterwards. Be patient :D
IP IP Logged
vampireslug
Commander
Commander
Avatar

Joined: 16 February 2009
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 187
Quote vampireslug Replybullet Posted: 21 April 2009 at 7:25am
Okay, I'll try to be patient... but it won't be easy. :)
"The Earth starts to rumble, world powers fall. A 'warring for the heavens, a peaceful man stands tall...." - Mustaine. ©1992 Screen Gems/EMI
IP IP Logged
Page  of 2 Next >>
Post Reply Post New Topic
Printable version Printable version

Forum Jump
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot create polls in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum