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jalonso
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Quote jalonso Replybullet Topic: Pikachu-MP
    Posted: 02 July 2009 at 6:29am
The next in my Artist series mockups: A Picasso SHMUP for the DS

With so much to choose from in his work I think Guernica is the best choice because its from his cubist period and is arguably his best piece. Certainly important in art since its the first overtly political commentary piece, a true masterpiece.


I seek advice from SHMUP players before I even start:
Should the gameplay be left to right or vertical?
What is the best lightsource when playing a SHMUP?


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skamocore
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Quote skamocore Replybullet Posted: 02 July 2009 at 6:55am
I'm no shmup expert, but I'll tell you my thoughts anyway.

Firstly, why pikachu, are you trying to get all the pokemon people to respond to your topic?

Anyway, vertical/horizontal - I'd personally pick vertical. I remember you mentioning that you wanted top-down, and top down is usually done in vertical, it's also a lot more practical to use vertical on a DS. And you should not need that much information shown at any given time on the interface anyway. Do you really need that map always open? Do we need to always see the portrait? And three extra areas for ??? on the screen >_<
Anyway, the point is -  vertical .

Two vertical shmups I recommend that you check out are Tyrian and DoDonPachi.

Do you have to focus on just one painting!? Guernica would be an obvious choice, but why not incorporate elements from other paintings too? I've always thought that Three Musicians was awesome, but I'm not entirely sure how you would incorporate that into a shmup. But then again I'm not entirely sure how you would incorporate Guernica into a shmup either P:

I'll comment again once you get started.

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jalonso
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Quote jalonso Replybullet Posted: 02 July 2009 at 7:37am
Picasso + SHMUP > PicaShump = PikachuMP 

That Tyrian looks like a great game, visually. I'd say no to DoDonPachi because its been done overdone. Although it is the best looking SHMUP I've ever seen.
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Quote greenraven Replybullet Posted: 02 July 2009 at 7:57am
Hell yes on the Tyrian! 

Me, I've always preferred the top down shumps.

Now I'm gonna do that thing that I do and post a bunch of pics and let you decide what you like best...









(I like this one because it's not quite top down.)










I had a few more examples to post, but I can't seem to remember their names, so I can't google for them. >_<

JAL EDIT: Thx, Greenie for the refs. Will you remove them now? Tyrian will be my insipiration for this.


Edited by jalonso - 03 July 2009 at 12:44pm
"pwnage comes with patience, practice and planning." ~ Jalonso   
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ShoySlayer
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Quote ShoySlayer Replybullet Posted: 02 July 2009 at 8:36am
i agree with greenraven. here's my arrangement for you:(if you plan do make it a ds game mockup...)
E: Enemies, ground and flying.
O: Object that might be in the way.
P: the player.
U: an upgrade.
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jalonso
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Quote jalonso Replybullet Posted: 02 July 2009 at 1:16pm
The horse and lampshade


thx, Shoy + Green :)
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Dex
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Quote Dex Replybullet Posted: 02 July 2009 at 9:49pm
I don't think it's recognizable as his stuff. Don't get me wrong, the pixeling is great, but I couldn't place the first image with those two ships until I tried really hard to see the semblance.
http://www.pixelxcore.net
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AngelOTG
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Quote AngelOTG Replybullet Posted: 02 July 2009 at 10:11pm
I agree. I didn't really get what it was until I looked at the painting a few times. D:
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Quote AtomicMushroom Replybullet Posted: 02 July 2009 at 10:45pm
I totally disagree with the above comments. The combination of geometric and organic shapes screams Picasso to me. I also know based on your other threads that the overall design will change (and improve) with each post.
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Dex
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Quote Dex Replybullet Posted: 03 July 2009 at 9:05am
yo, a LOT of artists used geometric and organic shapes. I think the only way to make it truly picasso is to render the ships even more like the above painting. I dunno, it just looks like crazy ship designs to me :/
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jalonso
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Quote jalonso Replybullet Posted: 03 July 2009 at 11:57am
I wasn't thinking of making the objects in the painting into individual ships.
I think blending it into a mothership will work best across two individual screencaps. Almost faded entirely in with some items coming out (the white parts of the painting.

Thoughts?

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skamocore
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Quote skamocore Replybullet Posted: 03 July 2009 at 12:08pm
This a problem that I see really often - you are spacing out your stars far too evenly. I think you really should be heavily studying Dr. Squid's work. Have a look at this piece, for example, observe how the stars are spaced. Check out all of his other pieces that feature space backgrounds as well, you'll find that the stars are never simply equidistant.

Also, I don't think fuel or ammo are really concerns in shmups.

Anyway, starting to come together nicely ;D
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Quote ellie-is Replybullet Posted: 03 July 2009 at 12:09pm
Awesome. Good job on the player's ship so far as well.

Do you already know what paintings you are going to use for the other screenshots?
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jalonso
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Quote jalonso Replybullet Posted: 03 July 2009 at 12:20pm
@ska, I just threw that image for y'alls to see what I thinking. The sky will never end up looking like that. Nothing will end looking like that which is just a layout.

@lucas, I think for this I'll just do those 2 screens and the 3rd is title and load screen. Which will be another painting of his, the 3 guitar guys or the 3 women painting...dunno yet.

Still confused about SHMUP GUI elements. C'mon SHUMPers what is the bare essential items you like in SHUMPs?


Edited by jalonso - 03 July 2009 at 12:23pm
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Walrus
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Quote Walrus Replybullet Posted: 04 July 2009 at 3:41am
great work on the bg :D
the fuel bar is realy out of place. no one uses fuel in shooters.
ammo is OK, but then again, what do you do if you run out of ammo and a boss comes?
how about hp bar? that might work XD...
somthing else you can do is smart bombs.. like a bomb that kills all the enemy at both screen instantly.
and i dont like the player ship. too flat XD
hope that helped :D
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jalonso
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Quote jalonso Replybullet Posted: 05 July 2009 at 11:45am
Trying to find my player ship and finding my colors.
I'm not going to sweat the BG sky since so much will be covered up eventually.
This is way more challenging than I first thought :|

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ellie-is
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Quote ellie-is Replybullet Posted: 05 July 2009 at 12:22pm
Awesome.

By the way, do you have anything in mind for the next one?
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Quote OMGLOLZORS Replybullet Posted: 05 July 2009 at 12:58pm
I think these artist based mockups are a really good idea and really creative. Do you know what you're doing for the later ones? I think Escher might work well.
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jalonso
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Quote jalonso Replybullet Posted: 05 July 2009 at 2:27pm
Next up Warhol Puzzler/Sokoban 
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ellie-is
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Quote ellie-is Replybullet Posted: 05 July 2009 at 3:08pm
Oh, sweet. What is it for? NES, SNES, etc?
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jalonso
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Quote jalonso Replybullet Posted: 05 July 2009 at 7:47pm
@lucas, I'll think about that later on.

Update




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jalonso
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Quote jalonso Replybullet Posted: 06 July 2009 at 2:34pm
1930s Spain during the War.



Edited by jalonso - 06 July 2009 at 2:34pm
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jalonso
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Quote jalonso Replybullet Posted: 29 May 2011 at 4:48pm
...almost 2 years later...

Taking another stab at this. Nothing was working as a SHMUP partly because most Picasso works have figures or are figure driven. So, I'm going to try a 1st person shooter and as long as I can work 'guernica' in somewhere I'll be happy.

GUI is a bit ugly but loosely based on paintings where Picasso wrote words such as THIS. Haven't figured out if just a crosshair is enough or will I need a weapon??? I don't think showing a hand/arm is right for this.


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Quote greenraven Replybullet Posted: 29 May 2011 at 5:55pm
Something to fit the Picasso mood, Tri-lock crosshair.

Just an idea.
"pwnage comes with patience, practice and planning." ~ Jalonso   
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jeremy
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Quote jeremy Replybullet Posted: 29 May 2011 at 10:48pm
Needs more garish colours ;D (perhaps some green/pink in the figures themselves)

I hope you keep up some of the lovely detailing you had in the SHMUP too :D
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King of Games
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Quote King of Games Replybullet Posted: 29 May 2011 at 11:08pm
I must say, I liked the shmup mock-ups better, making a DS mockup in general is a great exercise in spatial orientation and organization. You have to find a way to balance form and function without drawing too much visual noise or superfluous data.

I can see how shump might not 'make sense' for Picasso, if you're going to stick with the new mockup, you gotta draw a weapon at least, and keep in on DS.
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jalonso
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Quote jalonso Replybullet Posted: 06 June 2011 at 11:02am
Originally posted by Jeremy

...garish colours..

Of course! that's the secret, yup.

Not very easy to consolidate all the different styles and coloring into one project and keep it within gaming logic :|


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showtime
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Quote showtime Replybullet Posted: 06 June 2011 at 4:54pm
The colours are awesome, although I feel like the values are darker than what Picasso would have done, maybe? ... but then there's the blue period.  BTW, are you planning to have a different level/design for each period or anything like that? cause that would be pretty badass and might make some aesthetic decisions easier for you.

Also, man is that ever cool, I'd love to play that.  We should get more developers up in here. ; )
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jalonso
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Quote jalonso Replybullet Posted: 07 June 2011 at 8:01pm
@showtime, I'm trying to stay within one single painting (guernica) and merely ref'n other paintings if I can.


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jalonso
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Quote jalonso Replybullet Posted: 08 June 2011 at 11:50am
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jalonso
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Quote jalonso Replybullet Posted: 08 June 2011 at 7:45pm
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Quote JaumeAlcazo Replybullet Posted: 09 June 2011 at 6:29am
A way better now than the "location" screen. I would not drop the blue walls, they're good and very powerful.

The shoot'em up is also very good. It's a pity that you don't continue it. The player spaceship in the shoot'em up doesn't work good for me, but the rest is ok.

Coming back to the fps. Have you thought about adding blood?

Also the perspectives are very odd. I know it's picasso style, but I don't see how someone could program a 3d world so distorted. An idea, maybe it could be done normally, like the doom engine, and then add a "distortion" filter.

Another idea is to walk step-by-step, dungeon master style, but this is a radical change.

Offtopic: I'm still busy with the work and the exams, but in the little free time I finished the minimap in Medici, it autocenters on your current location and is scrollable, also highlights leohouse and medici, and I did some other important things. I'm dying to work on it full-time again. Still some weeks of work.. : S
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jalonso
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Quote jalonso Replybullet Posted: 09 June 2011 at 11:54am
I am working with a stacking navigation/transition mode similar to the first MYST game where movement just fades to new view. Its the only way I can think of working with odd perspectives in a pixel based game. I don't think this could ever work like Doom or even Wolfenstein. Maybe this kind of thing is best for something like Qube Commander's  3D pixel app.
Honestly, a Picasso based pixel game is not a realistic project at all or at least in almost 2 years I haven't visualized it truly happening.


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jalonso
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Quote jalonso Replybullet Posted: 11 June 2011 at 11:38am
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jalonso
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Quote jalonso Replybullet Posted: 12 June 2011 at 9:41am
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showtime
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Quote showtime Replybullet Posted: 14 June 2011 at 10:38am
These are really coming along nicely, love it
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jalonso
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Quote jalonso Replybullet Posted: 14 June 2011 at 3:01pm
Finally a comment 9.9

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jalonso
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Quote jalonso Replybullet Posted: 14 June 2011 at 7:54pm
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greenraven
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Quote greenraven Replybullet Posted: 14 June 2011 at 8:20pm
Awesomeness as always jal. :D
"pwnage comes with patience, practice and planning." ~ Jalonso   
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jalonso
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Quote jalonso Replybullet Posted: 15 June 2011 at 12:49pm
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King of Games
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Quote King of Games Replybullet Posted: 15 June 2011 at 1:14pm
Aahaha this is great! Is there a story behind this,who are you and why are you blasting these poor deformed creatures? Also what are those lights on the sides of the screens?
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Quote shampoop Replybullet Posted: 15 June 2011 at 1:17pm
Hey,  I just noticed that, for the L/R hub on the top left and right corners, you have things like "Weapon", "map", and "item".  You probably no this already but you are missing these on a couple images.

I can't wait to see the title screen!
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jalonso
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Quote jalonso Replybullet Posted: 17 June 2011 at 12:37pm
@King of Games, No story just a shooting rampage in Guernica, Spain 1930s Fascist overtake. Its what the 'Guernica' painting is all about
@shampoop, the corners (everything) have more than one use so copy pops up as needed.

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jalonso
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Quote jalonso Replybullet Posted: 18 June 2011 at 9:05am
Should the player hand be super realistic or keep the style? Would wearing a glove be/look better?

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showtime
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Quote showtime Replybullet Posted: 18 June 2011 at 9:12am
I personally think it would be really cool to have the player's hand/weapons look really realistic in order to contrast with the rest of the visuals.  It would also kind of be a catalyst between the hypothetical player sitting in their non-cubist world, and the absurd creatures within the world you're creating.
Also, I think it would create more of an "Us vs. Them" dynamic if the player seems to look realistic.

I'm not very eloquent, I hope you understand what I'm getting at
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jalonso
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Quote jalonso Replybullet Posted: 18 June 2011 at 9:21am
Originally posted by showtime

...it would be really cool to have the player's hand/weapons look really realistic in order to contrast with the rest of the visuals...a catalyst between the hypothetical player sitting in their non-cubist world, and the absurd creatures within the world you're creating...it would create more of an "Us vs. Them" dynamic...


Great points, this has to be explored.
I have been thinking of this dynamic and did try a realistic weapon earlier on and looked bad to me. I think adding the hand now changes everything.
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showtime
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Quote showtime Replybullet Posted: 18 June 2011 at 9:29am
yeah, I don't know, I was kind of thinking of suggesting earlier that you make the player (well, the weapons) more stylized, because the guns seemed kind of out of place.  Then I realized that it's not necessarily a good thing for the player to feel like they are welcome in this environment, or a part of it -- especially considering the context --  and the way you were drawing the guns started to make a lot more sense.

It's probably really hard to pull off just the right style though, cause you also don't want things to look tooooooo out of place.
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Quote guitarfred Replybullet Posted: 18 June 2011 at 11:24am
Are you really gonna make a game of it or what? kinda genius 
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jalonso
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Quote jalonso Replybullet Posted: 19 June 2011 at 1:15pm
@ guitarfred, no and thx :)

Hyper realistic weapons and arms just don't seem to fit unless its a jpeg real pic so the contrast is the most extreme. As this is just part of a collection of mockups, I better stick to pure pixels. I've gone with my original idea of using the large blue icon to show the hand. Also started the arrow shooter, but don't know what to shoot >.<
Candle screen is WIP til I get in the mood to pixel the glow. I was trying for an old time typewriter look for the code buttons.
Added/tweaked/revised lots of bits here and there.



Edited by jalonso - 19 June 2011 at 1:15pm
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Quote dpixel Replybullet Posted: 20 June 2011 at 6:49am
You're really pulling this off jal.  I had my doubts at first, but this is looking great!  
hehe (ಠ_ಠ ) o_- :p
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