Arvesia : my first pixel art
Printed From: Pixel Joint
Category: Pixel Art
Forum Name: WIP (Work In Progress)
Forum Discription: Get crits and comments on your pixel WIPs and other art too!
URL: https://pixeljoint.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=19892
Printed Date: 08 September 2025 at 3:33am
Topic: Arvesia : my first pixel art
Posted By: RebeaLeion
Subject: Arvesia : my first pixel art
Date Posted: 05 October 2014 at 3:36pm
Hi, I m new to pixeljoin and this my first thread. I started with pixelart 5months ago with an idea to build a game, I could not draw a thing, I was terrible. But I know It's all about practice and I improved over time - it's far away from perfect, it has some flaws but I am trying to fix as many as possible ! I believe I can improve here on pixel joint. I will try to change game sprites as time goes. EDIT : So many great tips and critique led me to more improvements, you're awesome guys! My pixelart is not perfect, but I am trying harder! Great motivation here on PJ. START 5 months ago was difficult : 
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Replies:
Posted By: RebeaLeion
Date Posted: 06 October 2014 at 12:55pm
new character, let me know what u think (compared to the old one). He is not going to be as big as this, this is 150% scale. |
Posted By: SuperTurnip
Date Posted: 06 October 2014 at 8:52pm
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You've obviously worked very hard to get to this point, and five months is a fairly short amount of time, growth wise. You should be proud--but, you should also remember that you almost certainly are not going to be stylistically consistent for a long, long while, and what you do have still needs a great deal of work.
I'd like to stress the importance of art basics as the center of interesting pixel art. Learn where to put detail, and where to withhold it. Learn about form and lighting. Always remember that pixel art is a medium you are sending a message through--make sure that your message isn't garbled by an obsession with "cool pixel art", because that never holds up under scrutiny. Where to go from here? Pixel cleaner by making art with pixels, not pixel art. Nobody draws every hair on a person's head, and you sure as heck aren't going to dither on a 32x sprite's hair once you've taken a step back and considered the problem you're trying to solve! Good work, though. This is five months, and it will take years to get to a good place of consistency and skill. Enjoy the trip and don't assume you're at your destination. Don't ever. |
Posted By: RebeaLeion
Date Posted: 07 October 2014 at 4:52am
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Thank you !! It tells me a lot, I d like to improve with pixelart, but I do not know any drawing techniques. Lighting/Dithering and rules that applies to this.
I did not study tutorials much (I learned to draw pixels on my own, kinda). I d like to learn more about lighting and details, dithering. (any tip for good tutorial for me). Is dithering hair bad ? |
Posted By: SuperTurnip
Date Posted: 08 October 2014 at 5:40pm
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I think it might be fun to just keep going with this project for a bit, and learn as you go. Tutorials for pretty much anything you'd ever want to draw (and lots that your probably shouldn't) can be found on deviantART if you just enter "tutorial" into the search bar. I recommend this because these aren't pixel art tutorials--they're just different ways that people have drawn, painted or otherwise made different things. Experiment a bunch and follow them loosely, and they can be a great tool. http://www.pixeljoint.com/pixels/tutorials.asp - This page is full of a bajillion pixel art tutorials for a more specific approach. And of course, there's http://www.pixeljoint.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=11299 - Cure's tutorial as well. That one is just amazing.
Dithering hair is an odd one. It's maybe less about the fact that you dither, it's that the dithering (and this is more true the smaller something is) creates noise (detail) that distracts from the other important details around it, unless it is used very sparingly. In this case, the hair distracts from the face and adds an over-done look. If your character was draw as a 200x200 portrait, I doubt anyone would raise an eyebrow if the hair was dithered! |
Posted By: RebeaLeion
Date Posted: 10 October 2014 at 3:27pm
great, thanks for tips ! I ll look try to not dither those parts. The newest pixelart.
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Posted By: 0xDB
Date Posted: 11 October 2014 at 10:00am
| My opinion on the topic of dithering, especially regular dithering, these days is that it should be avoided if possible and should be used mainly if it serves a specific purpose, like suggesting texture. If however the only purpose is to save a color, it's usually not worth it, because it just ends up looking bad, unless being viewed on a blurry old CRT screen. |
Posted By: SuperTurnip
Date Posted: 11 October 2014 at 11:23am
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The new work looks great--if there's one thing you're doing really well right now, it's using colours. Good choices, good clarity with your ground standing out well from the other elements. You might have too many layers of different things, and that makes choosing colours for each a little harder, and the scene in general too busy. I'd remove the back layer of dirt and make the stone the standard underground texture.
The big thing you need to work on is cleanness, and consistency. The sky is super blurry and soft (perhaps a tad too much aa, you should let solid shapes of single colours emerge), the grass is scribbled and rough, and so is the rock background. The characters are also inconsistently outlined with black, object colour, or nothing. Choose one! It looks so much better when a game uses the same rules to draw every sprite and asset, so figure our your rules. Going back to that grass, and the trees for that matter, don't try to light every leaf and blade, just let the shapes soften into larger ones, bringing select elements into detail afterwards. Actually, apply that to everything--be specific and make clear forms and masses, then give them their texture and small details. Finally (whew), I wasn't bringing it up because it wasn't really relevant earlier, but it's best to work without blurs or effects. You should add those later using a game engine, if you even add them at all (pixeljoint doesn't accept stuff with effects, really). This way your assets will be good enough to stand by themselves before you start exaggerating them with bloom and whatnot. Good work, keep it up! |
Posted By: RebeaLeion
Date Posted: 11 October 2014 at 4:30pm
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Originally posted by Dennis
My opinion on the topic of dithering, especially regular dithering, these days is that it should be avoided if possible So you're suggesting not to use it, if it's not for a specific texture. I will try to avoid this. THANKS ! Originally posted by SuperTurnip
The big thing you need to work on is cleanness, and consistency. The sky is super blurry and soft (perhaps a tad too much aa, you should let solid shapes of single colours emerge), the grass is scribbled and rough, and so is the rock background. The characters are also inconsistently outlined with black, object colour, or nothing. Choose one! It looks so much better when a game uses the same rules to draw every sprite and asset, so figure our your rules. Thank for all tips, I will try to experiment in the future. This gives me an idea where or how I can improve. Slash animation + run anim.(slash 2.0xScaled, run 1.5x). Its flawed but the best i can produce atm. 
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Posted By: StepDragon
Date Posted: 12 October 2014 at 8:07pm
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Alright, a little tough love coming your way.
I think you're hurting yourself in a few ways. First, which is most apparent by your animations, this *ahem* isn't really pixel art. *** Hear me out *** looking at your sword swinging animation up close, you can notice that you have large pixels, and small pixels. This CAN be done to great effect, if that's what you're going for, but being early in your pixeling career, that's not where you should be focusing. I suspect you may have just upscaled your first pixel, and edited from there. what happens when you go that route is half pixel animations which clash. You're also passing up the most important aspect of pixeling: per pixel attention. The second issue you have is in your mindset. You said: "Its flawed but the best i can produce atm.". I disagree. I have seen WAY too many new pixelers come in and do amazing work because they asked for feedback, and went outside their comfort zone. I know you can improve, and I look forward to seeing it. my recommendation for your animations is this: 1. Choose a size, and stick to it. Don't try to scale and edit later. 2. Draw a stick figure, use a different color for each limb, and animate the stick to do the motion that you want completed. 3. after refining the motion of the stick figure to proper anatomy, draw your character on top of each frame (roughly) 4. Refine each frame and get them to flow together. There are other ways of doing this, IMO this is the most simple way. |
Posted By: RebeaLeion
Date Posted: 13 October 2014 at 8:02am
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Originally posted by StepDragon
You're also passing up the most 1. Choose a size, and stick to it. Don't try to scale and edit later. 2. Draw a stick figure, use a different color for each limb, and animate the stick to do the motion that you want completed. Great ! You made me think about it, I am not happy with its current look. 0. What is per pixel attention ? Please help me with this ! 1. True - I made small pixel and then 2x resized it and edited it to animation. It's because game is running at 800x600. But I think I will remake it to gam res. 400x300 and I won't have to resize created pixels. I think it will be faster too... 2. I will try to remake current char with a style u described. EDIT : I remade it. Is it normal that I did it 6hours? Based on the previous graphic was already done... Please let me know what u think, I really tried to make it better:   
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Posted By: SuperTurnip
Date Posted: 13 October 2014 at 10:10pm
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Looks like you've got some great animation potential! Well done. You've really made a positive change in terms of keeping your pixels the same size. Per-pixel attention is a staple of pixel art, in that for everything you draw, you pay close attention and invest great care into every pixel of your work. It means, no messy scribble shading, every pixel can be considered and there will be a better solution than the rough draft. So, making a sprite bigger and drawing onto that to animate is not really following this philosophy. You weren't trying to make it pixel-perfect with what you had, which you've now done to great effect.
A note on speed: first you get good, then you get fast, then you get better. This is true for everything, ever! 6 hours is a great time for now, work for years and it'll take half an hour. There's a lot of trial-and-error doing something for the first time, which bumps up the time taken a large amount. Things to consider now... 1. Watch out for banding. don't copy the shape of an outline with another colour just inside the outline. This makes really jagged shapes that just kill the piece. Look out for other examples in shading, even small clusters that line up can be awkward to look at if they aren't intentional. 2. Same note about dithering, this time for the legs during the run. Less is always better for small sprites! The dithering for the hair on the right side of the face is excellent though. 3. It can help to keep things simple to help pixeling. Don't over-design your character by having the bracelets, hilts, armour, etc all different. For instance, having the hair tie that holds the ponytail be the same material as the wrist/sleeve thing would help both feel more connected. Apart from that, the animation itself is looking remarkably good. Keep it up. |
Posted By: StepDragon
Date Posted: 14 October 2014 at 7:37am
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SuperTurnip said it great. and, you are taking C&C well, that's a great start. Pixel art, at its purest, means that every pixel of the piece has meaning, or at least was placed in a meaningful way. You don't end up with any jagged edges, or lopsided curves. The reason we suggest starting small and working up, is because it takes discipline, practice, and patience.
You've already made some improvements with your animations, but to me they look less like 'motion', and more like the idea of what motion 'should be'. If you stand up, and pretend to swing a sword, are your shoulders completely straight during the entire motion? Do you keep your legs completely still? What I was trying to say before, with the stick figure, wasn't to make you take any steps back in your work, but to re-assess it from another standpoint. Pixel art is a medium where you basically keep working refining the same thing for a very long time, but that doesn't stop you from doing other sketches on the side. If you do that practice, and like what you see, you may end up putting it into your final work. I think what I'm trying to say is, don't be under the impression that I'm telling you to start over. Rather, I just want you to take a moment to consider other techniques. Here is a great example by http://www.pixeljoint.com/pixelart/17445.htm - Adarias showing how having a backbone to build from can REALLY effect how your final piece is animated: (Don't forget you can click to zoom in) 
Even if you ignore the cape flapping around, you can clearly see every part of the body moving into the swing. Plus, once you have believable motion in the body, you can work on effects. In your case, the sheath and pony tail. 
Here's one of the street fighter animations as another example. Look at each part of the body, and notice how they all are part of the motion. Know what you want to animate before you start, if you pixel first and animate second, (while, again, not impossible) you're only making it harder. |
Posted By: RebeaLeion
Date Posted: 14 October 2014 at 2:01pm
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Thank you all for your tips ! Adarias's sample may help me a lot in the future.
I think this is final - I moved a leg a bit so its not static + I changed thing by ponytail. 
When I look at those new sprites compared to the first, I would not be here without your help. Since I got some feedback I will try to create those new sprites based on it. I will post in the future, when I have more done. |
Posted By: StepDragon
Date Posted: 14 October 2014 at 2:40pm
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Don't feel bad about posting small steps. If you ask us earlier in the process, we'll have more opportunity to help you. If you only post works when you're close to calling it finished, you're cutting out a lot of potential C&C.
You can only improve, and you're making progress. I look forward to your next work. |
Posted By: PixelSnader
Date Posted: 14 October 2014 at 7:31pm
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For your first work, this is remarkably usable. I won't say it's great, but it's consistent in style (and errors), and it works decently well as a whole. It's not a game where the aesthetic is a selling point, but it's not a turnoff either like so many pixel games. I know it sounds like a backhanded compliment, but that in itself is a reasonably big deal, especially for a first.
That said, it's definitely got some issues. Most prominently it feels messy and more like temporary/sketched art than the finished work. Which, this being a WIP thread, might just be the case... but anyway. Messiness. Let's start with a very specific detail, your shoulder armor. It's very blobby in nature, and combined with the color choices it feels more like a dirt or rock block from Terraria than anything else. Regardless of it being metal or leather, it should be a more legible shape, and have a bit more specularity. Taking that bit of info and looking at the rest of your mockup, the same kind of blobbiness appears everywhere from the trees to the grass to the underground dirt. Everything seems to be roughly the same 'material'; pixel clumps with some sprayed/scribbled pixel noise. But in a way that's a good thing because A you've got a specific focal point of things to learn and B you seem to not have ingrained a lot of different things to unlearn (as any artist knows, unlearning is -much- harder than learning). Your biggest issues are having simple enough shapes that read well and have just enough detail, and a lack of understanding how different materials react with light. That's it. Form and material. Of course your animation could be better, you could have better ramps, save more colors, and so on, but just focusing on form and material will make a -huge- overall difference. Here's an edit of your main character using the same base colors and style (proportions, selout), but with completely redone shading/materials. I tried to keep it mostly the same character but obviously I've changed design details. And a bit of tweaking of the pose and anatomy because I couldn't figure out some of it. Oh and that blue hair tie =P 
The first stages (0-2) are a combination of two processes, first of all reducing your sprite to flat colors, and secondly a sketching technique I like to call https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/448525/keep/minitutorials/Blobbing.png - 'blobbing' which is a way to quickly get some basic lighting down. In stages 3-5 you see me adding and tweaking detail. (note that these stages aren't done at regular time intervals, so the 4-5 difference is rather small) 6 and 7 are adding detail and finishing touches. I hope these things come across good enough: •medi-eval/native-american leather pants. Sorta like http://www.thevikingstore.co.uk/ekmps/shops/thevikingstore1/images/costume-green-suede-pants-%5b2 - -5146-p.jpg - these . •smoothish hair with bangs and some strands, relatively clean. •leather wrapped sheath •used metal breastplate •furry tufty pauldrons One issue with your sprite is overuse of outlines. One might argue mine uses a bit too little, but I'd remedy that with higher contrast colors instead. Because everywhere you add an outline, you're using a pixel, adding noise and generally making something feel flatter. So try to keep outlines only on the outside of the sprite where possible. When you do feel you need a bigger separation somewhere, make the 'outline' work multiple jobs. If you look at my outline between pants and breastplate, you'll notice it's brown: this makes it look like a dropshadow from the armor. A similar method is used on the forehead, though with a wider shadow. Along the same lines I used a drop shadow on the arm in combination with self-shadow on the fur to create a separation between skin/fur, to create a round shape for the shoulder, and to create a jagged outline for the tufts. (the shoulders took me a fair bit of times and several complete reworks because of this complexity) With less outlines, we have more pixels to use for the form of things. Take a look at the legs and arms; those are pretty much cylinders. (again, the outlines add shading instead of being merely outlines) The breastplate is spherical, just like the main shape of the hair and face. The shoulder is made up of three waterdrop shapes, partially hidden behind the hair. The sheath is very slightly curved, but could be essentially considered flat. The reason why part of the sheath is darker is simply because the body is casting a shadow on it. I hope this all makes sense, since the sprite is so small that all of these things kind of blend together and it can be hard to discern shape versus shadow versus detail versus line. =P But in the end, that is what makes it work. If you compare the sheath wrappings, you'll see that the ones in v5 are much sharper, which would make them read better, right? Well, no, because the sprite is tiny and thus the line is very obviously broken and jagged. But by using some anti-aliasing, by blending in the colors with the sheath and the shadow, we can fudge things a bit and make it look somewhat like one smooth line. As for what per-pixel attention is... it's simply paying attention to the effect of every pixel. Like I mentioned before, one pixel can have several roles at once; line shading and detail. Or just having that extra bit of detail and having it work nicely. Try removing those single dark pixels in the shoes. Suddenly the shoes are bland boxes. The smaller each sprite is, the more each individual pixel matters. As for animation, I agree with previous posters. Here is a mini tutorial I made way back: 
P.S. You may completely disagree with the face on V7. I like to cram as much 'realistic' detail in as possible, but I imagine plenty of people find it not fitting with the proportions, or simply find it less legible than a simple 2x2 eye. ------------- ▄▄█ ▄▄█ ▄█▄ ▄█▄ |
Posted By: RebeaLeion
Date Posted: 14 October 2014 at 10:45pm
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Originally posted by PixelSnader
Thank you for your hard work! This is definietly something for me to use (the technique). You're right about outlines, I will try to reduce their "darkness" inside of the sprites. I am glad that I did register to this forum, really great help from all of you. |
Posted By: RebeaLeion
Date Posted: 19 October 2014 at 2:36pm
I tried Ice, its more difficult than I thought it would be ... I didnt know how to place lights (?) so I tried over and over till I got this: (3hrs work).
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Posted By: SuperTurnip
Date Posted: 20 October 2014 at 9:03pm
The ice is messy, for sure. And boy... I can identify with it being almost impossible to light transparent things, especially as multi-purpose sprites. I did an edit to clear things up and perhaps shed some light on one way of drawing really complex things. It's not perfect, but here it is:
I took the silhouette of your piece, then decided where the light was. I then chose some big flat shapes to light in the second step. Third step, I highlighted some of those shapes, and added a few that weren't shown by the silhouette. Note that there's no outline so far! Then, I added some light that has traveled through the entire icicle to the opposite side from the light source. This involved a few more new spikes that weren't there before. Finally, I added one colour and outlined the piece. This shadow colour fills in half of the outline, and then the inside of the ice in a dark shadow. This is so that we don't have to draw what's behind the ice, and so we have a nice contrast between dark and lights. Your piece had an (unintentional, I think) whopping 141 colours. Even if you only meant to use sixteen, you can use even less--four or five! I hope that this helped! Good luck with this piece, it's really difficult and good work trying it out--it is impossible to get first try! Keep pixeling! EDIT: Also, I forgot to mention: your choice of background colour was excellent, it really helps to work with medium-toned backgrounds, and the colour kind of helped with the blues of the ice, I think. Small things like that can really help. |
Posted By: RebeaLeion
Date Posted: 21 October 2014 at 1:46pm
Wow, that helped me greatly. But now I feel it's not my sprite. It's yours from 80% - that guide did the trick. The original sprite you created is on 5th frame now (I included it in the motion - and I hope you don't mind, so I ask if I can use it for a freeware game). I draw 1-4 frames of gif excatly by your guide. Here it is, took me like 2 hrs.
This is going to be an ice spell |
Posted By: SuperTurnip
Date Posted: 21 October 2014 at 5:26pm
| Well, I don't mind you using art I drew specifically for you. :) However, I agree that it's less of your sprite now, and that's never a good thing! I think even if you did a great job replicating something following (anyone's) process, you are better off only using it as a very loose guide. Now that you've made this animation, try making another final spike of ice and draw new frames leading up to it like you did with my drawing. Also, I notice you did what looks like a little click-and-drag re-sizing for the different frames. Draw each frame uniquely to really build something that looks fluid and real! |
Posted By: RebeaLeion
Date Posted: 22 October 2014 at 12:29am
There is no resizing in this animation (maybe? I am not sure) I drew frame by frame when I did this second attempt, based on orig. shapes (I will try to avoid drag n drop in the future tho! If I did it before, I won't) - I will try to make some ice blocks now for practice.
 SuperTurnip
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Posted By: RebeaLeion
Date Posted: 23 October 2014 at 3:56pm
From Ice to Rock Pillar. I tried to add some cracks and shape.
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Posted By: RebeaLeion
Date Posted: 25 October 2014 at 7:43am
VID removed, but old progress screen archived :
EDIT : BIG TREE Was orignally turned to right, so it was lit from right. now its lit from left here. |
Posted By: SuperTurnip
Date Posted: 25 October 2014 at 2:22pm
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This works fairly well. Having music like you had in your video in the actual game would really help the aesthetic along. Once again, your strongest skill is colouring. Lighting is tricky with multi-purpose assets, but there are a lot of cases where you really need to rework it. In the above image:
-The clouds are lit from above. -The hills are lit from the right, with a fill light on the left side (realistic). -The large tree is lit from the right, no fill light. -The bushes are lit from behind, the large bushes/trees are lit from above. -The small tree is lit from the left. -The Rock pillars are lit from the left. -The ground is lit from above. There's bound to be some lighting inconsistencies in any 2D platformer that isn't entirely hand-painted. But some of these are a little crazy! All in all, it looks nice. It's not incredibly well-pixeled, but you're still learning the ropes with technique so that's okay. Your colour skills also help keep the assets together. My advice would be to keep drawing, and continue to update your main character sprite as you go along. You're constantly improving, but that means that old assets will start to look bad next to new ones. It's good to have a character you're entirely happy with before you start animating--that way you won't have to make as many changes. Your main character sprite is arguably the asset that players will see the most of, so the amount you carefully work on it changes the aesthetic experience a lot. Follow PixelSnader's advice on this matter, their edit was really good and it'd be good to see what you learned from it. |
Posted By: RebeaLeion
Date Posted: 25 October 2014 at 3:38pm
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I didn't think about light before. I will try to keep it up to one side+up light. Thanks for tip! I changed direction of assests. What do you mean by lit from right - no fill light (sry for my Eng)? Fill light is something special ?
I am changing assets every month. It's 5 th edit of my game/assests... I d like to move forward already. I am changing same things over and over and replacing things that were already done before, it is really holding me back from coding (on the other one, game at its early phase was far away from being fair). Now I got to phase, where it looks fine for decent freeware game. I will try to improve over time as I am working on the project. |
Posted By: RebeaLeion
Date Posted: 26 October 2014 at 10:46am
I tried the guide I saw above in posts, but I think I am not doing it right... or I am missing something
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Posted By: Finlal
Date Posted: 27 October 2014 at 7:14am
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You're making great progress, this statue looks pretty good.
Just a few tips: 1) Edge of a pedestal doesn't look flat because you have lights above it and shadows below. In doing flat things start with solid color, then add some cracks and flecks so it won't look boring. 2) You have too many colors which makes picture kinda messy. Some of them are mostly identical. I cleaned it up a bit. 
Also you might add some flick on right wing so it contrast with body and be more visible. P.S. Is that hair? 
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Posted By: RebeaLeion
Date Posted: 27 October 2014 at 10:33am
| ok, thanks. Yes it's hair |
Posted By: RebeaLeion
Date Posted: 27 October 2014 at 12:53pm
I tried some portrait, but it... took me over 4 hours and I got nowhere near to state where it looks good or at least fair. I am starting to think that I have no that right feeling to be an pixelartist (I can't draw irl with pen or pencil). In 4-5 hours I wasnt able to make a portrait that looks somehow decent and it is not looking even close to pixelart :( what I am doing wrong. Might it be have no creative/graphic talent. I spent so many hours on these...
Edit : its not that I want to give up on pixel art, not even a close ! but something is not feeling right. |
Posted By: Finlal
Date Posted: 27 October 2014 at 1:06pm
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For the first try it's actually really good.
You do have this creative talent. As SuperTurnip said before, you have good color feeling, which is already a sign of creativity. Yeah, those portraits might not look like those of the skilled pixel artist, but it's because you're a novice. Everything comes with practice, mate. |
Posted By: Limes
Date Posted: 28 October 2014 at 8:03am
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Her hair looks more like liquid in these potrayals.
I Think using more hue shift in the skin colors would be nice and getting proportions right you'll have ace portrait right there. |
Posted By: RebeaLeion
Date Posted: 31 October 2014 at 11:58pm
I tried to draw a tent under the tree... But the tent looks terrible compared to all other stuff I draw... What I am doing wrong ? Could it be that mix of colour is bad for the tent or it just need more textures and this simple shading (thats what i ma trying to do) is just bad. |
Posted By: Finlal
Date Posted: 01 November 2014 at 5:57am
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You might wanna use some reference files. Just search google images for tents.
Also, could you post this image in 1x scale? |
Posted By: RebeaLeion
Date Posted: 01 November 2014 at 9:43am
I tried to change it a bit, I couldnt find complete tent sprite on google in pixeart which would help me to some degree... so this is from a head. Both 1x + 2x
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Posted By: SuperTurnip
Date Posted: 01 November 2014 at 11:06am
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References don't have to be pixel art :)
Try out search terms like "norse tent", "teepee", "old tent" etc. The images you find will be helpful because the things that are most important right now are universal things like form that you can learn from studying any image! There are a lot of pixel-only things that are a bit off in your work, notably banding and messiness, but those are only really important after the tent has been roughed out again in a more solid, comprehensible shape and construction. That being said, the spikes and skull are drawn with a lot of confidence, and they look very solid and well-done. They work in part because they're simple. Remember that you don't need to draw every fold in the fabric or leaf on the tree! |
Posted By: RebeaLeion
Date Posted: 01 November 2014 at 11:17am
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Alright so I found out stuff about banding, I will look upon tutorial how to do this banding right + Messiness ? What do you mean by messines, is that a lot of colors used or - I draw too many things over and over instead of trying to keep it clean. I will rework the tent this evening.
EDIT : Nvm I looked at some banding tutorial, I think I have an idea ! |
Posted By: RebeaLeion
Date Posted: 01 November 2014 at 2:57pm
Thanks for banding tip. it took 4 hours + :/
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Posted By: Finlal
Date Posted: 01 November 2014 at 3:40pm
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Spikes and scull are really great.
As for a tent - you have too many colors on it, looks a little like a ripped picture and kinda messy. Try to start with very little amount of colors. Also you can use colder colors for shadow and warmer colors for light. About ten't form - those parts of cloth thad don't hold up with collumns are falling down. Here's a quick edit. 
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Posted By: RebeaLeion
Date Posted: 01 November 2014 at 4:24pm
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Thanks, still I am having problems to setup right colours ! Now I ll look like noob but because I am when it comes to colors. I didnt want to have messy colours on the tent so I moved bar manually to get similiar colours for banding (I didnt premade pallete, etc.). Thats why it has many different colors.
I am using graphics gale and when I draw tent alone I slided only on one bar : EDIT: HUE bar is obvious, but the others for shadow and lights confuse me. When I try to make colors it takes me a lot of time before I make those colors which match (light /shadow). I d like to understand those bars/slide bars so I can mix lights and shadows faster. Difference between HSL / HSV (?). Also that upper bar for 0 > 255 (light > black), does not affect colour at all, it isn't working -_- 
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Posted By: SuperTurnip
Date Posted: 01 November 2014 at 5:16pm
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You don't need to add so many colours! Two is enough to draw anything, and four is good enough to render most things fairly well. You should be using colours you already have for AA and making things smooth. Graphicsgale (you're using Graphicsgale, right?) has a handy feature: if you hold your mouse pointer over a pixel and right click, the brush picks up the colour like an eyedropper tool. This means that once you've added a few colours, you won't need to mess around with the palette box any more, and you won't create colours when you don't need too.
So, you need to go on a little research mission on colour. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HSL_and_HSV - Wikipedia has some things to show you, just ignore the math if it suits you, as the pictures show what's going on. Basically, colour is light, and the different attributes of that light can be represented as a point in 3D space. That's why there are always at least three values for a colour: it's coordinates inside a 3D solid with different axis representing different attributes of the light! RGB can be represented as cylinders with the axis being Hue, Saturation, and either Lightness or Value. So, HSL and HSV work to present two different ways of wrapping your noggin around colour! Both share the first two attributes. The net result of all of this nonsense is that you have three ways to navigate colour available to you. You could use plain RGB, and move the sliders to bring more red into a highlight, and more blue into a shadow. You could use HSL or HSV to control the hue and saturation, with different meanings for the vertical axis of the colour cylinder. What matters is that you consider what you're doing as you change a colour. Don't just start with a light colour, bring down the lightness/value 20 points, 40 points, and 60 points and say you're done. |
Posted By: RebeaLeion
Date Posted: 01 November 2014 at 5:43pm
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Thanks guys! I will try to revamp a tent + I will try to use warm / cooler colors more - instead of light /dark bar only with same hue.
This is my first sprite where I used warmer colors for lights, colder for shadows. (less than min sprite, so it's not for show, but I see its possible to make shadows and lights this way as Finlal said - I was chasing colors randomly over whole pallete. This may help me a lot in faster color picking ! 
note*really quickedit warmer/cooler colors |
Posted By: Finlal
Date Posted: 01 November 2014 at 5:57pm
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There's a problem here with shading on sphere.
It's hard to explain on words so I'll just post an image BlackDragon posted in Resoures and Support. 
Also you might find many interesting things in http://www.pixeljoint.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=11299 - this topic. |
Posted By: PixelSnader
Date Posted: 01 November 2014 at 6:55pm
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Like mentioned before, use reference. But also, think about use cases. Then think about logical ways how to facilitate those.
In this case one of the first things to ask yourself is this: should the house move? And if so, how often. You say you used a tent as reference, but in the first image you've got a a sign on what looks to be a pretty permanent structure. Here's some more rambling in both cases: If the goblins are a warlike moving people, I'd expect the text sign to be on one maybe two poles, driven into the ground. Or even simpler, just totems or skullpoles. Then, the tent is modern yet clunky. The reason a modern tent works like this is because of the strong bending and tensile strength of the poles. I doubt goblins have figured out fiberglass, and you're showing thick poles sticking out, so I reckon using a dome-tent isn't right. There do exist round designs, and goblins could use smaller more flexible twigs than humans could, but it doesn't feel quite right. Lets look at a few alternatives with pros and cons: 
You could go for a teepee, though that might feel cliched and feel too civilized. It's easy to construct though, and very portable. So it would work for an roving fight group. Many campers consider it to be the best kind of movable home; it's simple to make, can be done with all kinds of materials, and can be easily adapted for situations. 
Single pole tent. Looks like a teepee, but isn't. One big pole with a cloth over it. Downsides? Pole needs to be much larger/heavier, which needs to be dug in for stability, or needs to use lots of guylines. Easier to think up, but slightly less practical. 
Bedouin tent. Same basic concept as the single-pole tent, just with a few more poles to make it more wide and less high. Sometimes this is used as just a roof, and then they optionally wrap a big band around it http://static.panoramio.com/photos/large/64457817.jpg - like this . Biggest downside of this, just like the single-pole tent, is that you need a good way to make the poles stable, which generally means digging them into the soil. Digging in to soft desert sand is easy. Digging in to forest mud, less so. I do think that the visual of this works well for goblins though. 
You could also go for a more survivalist style tent such as the lean-to. Stick two poles in the ground with a crossbar on top, and then add a roof of leaves or fabric or whatever. Also very simple, but not quite as portable I think. But it could work quite well, visually, to have one of the supporting poles be a tree branch, to show a bit of a nature connection from the creatures. 
Contubernium tent. Roman tent for a squad of 8 warriors. Somewhat modern style with poles and guylines. Good ratio of surface used to usable space for people. (i.e. not a lot of small corners where you can't put anything) Good portability. Looks very neat and organized, which IMO doesn't fit with goblins. That's about it for portable oldschool tents. Now about some slightly more fixed housing. 
Yurts, used by middle-asian nomads. Not meant to move every day/week; you let your animals graze until there's no food left and then you move on. Based on a lattice/trellis structure which is quite ingenous because it's very sturdy, light, and doesn't require large/thick poles. Doesn't require you to dig into the ground at all, very handy for cold climates! The roof is sort of like a flat teepee. Using a different kind of material for the walls and the roof, in combination with the ropes holding down the roof, makes for a nice somewhat messy look. 
Wigwams, another native american design. Less portable than the teepee, and somewhat similar to the yurt in appearance. Instead of a re-usable trellis and roof construction, you make a complete frame from saplings. Decently suited for somewhat cold and rainy places because of the sturdier walls. Although I suppose you could use just cloth covering. 
Mobile homes. While technically movable, most of these stay in one place for the entire usage duration. The unruly, tribal and territorial nature of their inhabitants can be seen as analogous to goblins. However the materials and construction used are too modern for a fantasy game. Or would they be completely settled? Then have a look at these. 
Mud huts. You make a latticework of twigs, throw on mud and let it dry. Then you add a thatched roof. Simple, sturdy, but you need a place that has good mud. You can also make something a bit more elegant, with mud bricks, like http://science.nationalgeographic.com/science/archaeology/photos/gobekli-tepe/#/gobekli-huts-leather-2_35424_600x450.jpg - this or http://science.nationalgeographic.com/science/archaeology/photos/gobekli-tepe/#/gobekli-huts-mud-2_35425_600x450.jpg - this . I particularly like the visual of the second, though I'm not sure having the wooden beams protrude is a great idea because of pole rot. Then again, the millennium-old http://amigos805.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/12-01-12-Taos03.jpg - taos pueblo has them, so I suppose it's okay for a dry climate. In regards to fantasy, I think you can play around a bit with thematic elements. For example in Warcraft 2, the Orc sawmill</a> was made from a hollowed out tree trunk. IMO it didn't work well in that game because the proportions were out of whack with the game's trees, but you have pretty big thick trees and goblins are fairly small creatures. Tusks and/or bones could be used as somewhat decorative structural elements, but they'd be heavier than a wooden piece to carry the same load. So I'd limit them to 'premium' buildings like the chieftain house. And like I mentioned with the sign, I'd expect them to use simple-to-move decorations. Stuff like skullpoles (I'd make them less thick than you have), or strings of skulls/bones, or war banners. Perhaps spikes in the earth like the romans did. They had http://www.emersonkent.com/images/roman_field_fortifications.jpg - 3 main methods , to inflict different amounts of damage and slow-down. Also, think of storage. If you keep your food in your tent, you might find a bear or wolf there. So often times, people hung bags or chests of food in a tree. They'd sometimes even build something like a treehouse platform. Random image reference stuff time! 
 ------------- ▄▄█ ▄▄█ ▄█▄ ▄█▄ |
Posted By: Finlal
Date Posted: 02 November 2014 at 11:17am
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You made hell of a progress in sprites, but there are still some mistakes.
Sprite lacks pupil on his left eye. Maybe legs are too short. Also for design you might add a pin so he would be more recognisable. And maybe try darker outline so your character would contrast background. |
Posted By: RebeaLeion
Date Posted: 02 November 2014 at 2:24pm
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tHANKS fIN, you managed to reply to post which was up for two mins, I decided that I will mention it when I have more. So here it is:
Outlines were really necessary, because game is high-hue/contrast. I m not sure about hair, but I tried to keep it pixel-clean PixelSnader's guide. 
QUICK EDIT ON THE HAIR 
EDIT : I added ruff near neck + changed upper body + shoulder a bit, thanks Finl! But no tail, its sword sheet. Hm, idle anim... I will try to change legs but when I move pixels on legs a bit, it got messy... so I kept them idle for now. I might also change ponytail hair as in image below 
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Posted By: SuperTurnip
Date Posted: 02 November 2014 at 3:15pm
| Oh, the character is so improved! Really, wow wow wow! The long hair is also really good, I think better than the ponytail. If you have to keep the 'tail, bring it higher on the head and follow the curve of the loose hair. Really great improvement. I have to say, the scabbard could be less jarring if you AAd the white bits. Other than that, I'm impressed. Keep it up! |
Posted By: Finlal
Date Posted: 02 November 2014 at 3:54pm
As I said you made great progress but there are still mistakes and things to be corrected.
Ok. I made many things here, not sure I can explain everything. First of all, outline. When you use dark outline it's doesn't really matters if they are same or different colors. And it would be much easier to animate if outline is one solid color. And you can use it inside the sprite. Second - hair. I made a little picture showing how hair grows now and how they might grow. Also added that little pointing flock which, I think, makes character more recognizable. Anatomy (or something like that). Shoulder is very big (half of the torso) and legs are short as I mentioned before. Also I used up to 3 colors per objec (3 on hair, 2 on belt etc). You had too many colors on face and shirt and it looked a bit messy. About that tail thing - i didn't understand what it is so i just made it like dog tail or something. Another funny thing - face construction. By changing a few pixels on the face you changing character's face structure. Add dark pixel on the left - face looks thinner, add dark pixels between eyes - they looks deeper etc. Try to experiment with this. UPD. I think I turned your sprite into a woman. I should get some sleep. UPD 2. DO NOT do such idle animation. It's lazy. |
Posted By: RebeaLeion
Date Posted: 05 November 2014 at 9:06am
thanks again for all great tips ! It really helped me a lot. I am animating sprites of chara but for a break I decided to make a sprite with 4 colors only. When I am finished with animations I will post them.
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Posted By: Limes
Date Posted: 05 November 2014 at 10:04am
| Nice design Try a tablet on the headstone. |
Posted By: RebeaLeion
Date Posted: 05 November 2014 at 10:13am
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Originally posted by Limes
Nice design Try a tablet on the headstone. I did not made a sketch for this picture and I started to draw it from a head (a mistake) I could not keep proportion in real-time paint. Tablet (+ edited legs) 
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Posted By: RebeaLeion
Date Posted: 06 November 2014 at 1:44pm
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As you told I tried to focus on pixel details and I am rewriting graphic of the game again. Because of that old assests do not match at all and I have to recreate "some" again. But I will do it in order to improve. I also posted screen how game looked 5months ago (I added it in the first post of this thread)
IN GAME SCREEN with new graphic :: http://media.indiedb.com/images/games/1/36/35482/01s.PNG - For screen CLICK here --> Link will redirect you to indiedb screen (the light effect on the left is genereated). I post this screen to show a change in pixelart. I would not be here without everyone here. still way to go... Stand animation with leg movement: 
Do not fall animation (hero's foot is over a cliff), 
LINK: http://media.indiedb.com/images/games/1/36/35482/02s.png - In game screen with the foot over the edge you can notice on the screen I have added one strand of hair. I made the change eve on the anim above. 
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Posted By: Limes
Date Posted: 06 November 2014 at 4:42pm
The run is pretty damn good for the first try. 
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Posted By: RebeaLeion
Date Posted: 07 November 2014 at 2:53pm
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Its hard! I did run animation like 20 hours (total). (because I reworked it like 4x)
This is final result: 
and jump 
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Posted By: RebeaLeion
Date Posted: 08 November 2014 at 2:18am
Alright, again. I am really appreciative for the feedback I got here on the pixelart. It showed me that it's better to use less colors to make sprite to look cleaner. Because of this I am reworking game gfx like this goblin for example. Let me know what do you think about the new version - thanks ! 3x scale
NEW: 
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Posted By: SuperTurnip
Date Posted: 08 November 2014 at 12:42pm
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I love how you're progressing. Great general improvement. I have to say though, this does mean that we're not going to let the same things slide that we would a month ago. *evil laugh*
So, I'm a little late to the table when it comes to critiquing your latest work, so I'm going to focus on some specific stuff rather than the whole set of things you've produced. Mainly, your animation. In general, it's way better. In specifics, it still doesn't pass for anything close to real most of the time. My favourite animation would have to be the goblin, just because you haven't over-animated it. It's simple, pac-man stuff, and though the motion could be improved a lot (having the club drag along the ground for a moment before the goblin weightily lifts it up, for instance), it still works. Take a look at http://www.pixeljoint.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=18651&PN=3 - this topic again (it's great to see you looking at other topics and building skill through helping and asking questions, by the way). Starting midway down page three, the artist begins to work on animation. Try looking at their journey outside of tools (rotated bone program? Frame by frame animation?), and just see what changes as they progress. However, when we are talking about tools, something AshCrimson did was draw individual "bones" to animate, whilst making the animation frame by frame. The bones aren't copied frame-to-frame, they're just kept in mind as a guide to the anatomy of the character. It's the physical equivalent of remembering "the legs are brown, the shirt is blue": "The leg has this bone that is this long, and that never changes except if there is this perspective". Of course, this can look boring--a character that does not stretch and squish in ways that it probably wouldn't in real life doesn't look real! But, as a general rule, it is one way of helping the animation along so it doesn't wobble or twist oddly. Whew. Okay, now for an edit of your "unbalanced" animation. Right now it looks like your main character is dipping his foot into a bath to test the water, or hanging upside down from the straight leg. The body and limbs are twisted and unreadable. You gotta look at things in simple terms. If it doesn't make sense in three lines, it won't work in a thousand carefully placed pixels. 
Look how the weight of the edit is really off-center. He's not halfway over the edge, he's over the edge. The grounded leg is the one that follows the gesture line, and everything about the rest of the character does not want to be on the righthand side of it! Legs swing back, arms wheel in the air (sorry there's no animation--those suckers are fighting for balance, not hanging stiff at chest height), and even the head is tilting backwards. Only the loose elements such as hair and the scabbard flop with gravity, which shows the viewer just which way this person is heading if they don't correct their balance. This should be true for every key frame of your animations--strong lines are what tell the most stories, so an extended stride or the moment before a sword is drawn should be simple and dynamic. This may be why your goblin is my favourite. With the club drawn back, every part of it bends back along one line and it looks awesome. Alright, I hope that massive text dump helped you out with animation. Use rules to give structure to your animation, follow flowing lines to create stronger poses, and as usual, have a good time pixeling! |
Posted By: Finlal
Date Posted: 08 November 2014 at 3:16pm
HUGE progress in animation but there are still many mistakes - first of all, you can make animation speed 0,08 sec or even 0,07 with 10 frames for it to look more dynamic.
Second - running is a series of jumping. While running you jump from your right leg, then from left, then from right etc. And while jumping you spend some time in the air, so you really should show it in your animation. Another thing - arms and legs. I just can't figure out where is right ones ad where is left ones. Either hero swing arms too quickly or you make front one (which is closer to camera) darker and back (which is far from camera) ligher. For animation I higly recommend to read or watch "Animator's Survival Kit", it's from Disney animators. Those fellas know animation. |
Posted By: RebeaLeion
Date Posted: 09 November 2014 at 1:35am
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Thanks again for great tips! Owww... your sprite is so clean and nice readable SuperTurnip (I keep in mind that's a quick edit - but wow!). Also for these sketch lines - etc. I will try to use them for any animation that will require some bigger body movement since now (like sword attack or the mentioned hanging).
Finlal anim is running at speed which you mentioned in the game( I made it slower for forum). 
I should look at it eventually and make some re-animation. I have to move forward now, pherhaps when a time is right I will redone even that hanging animation too. (animations re really my weakest point, and it hits a game very hard ! :((( ). I am really appreciating every feedback. And I am trying to re-done everything in a game(trees, basic enemies, etc... to make it more readable) and in same style. 
I will try to follow what I learned from you so far. It may be not perfect yet (I don't even aim there now), I will try to do it the readable, clean and with the bones and lines in mind for next animations. 
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Posted By: RebeaLeion
Date Posted: 10 November 2014 at 6:31am
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I finally got to a tent, which I held off because of graphic re-design.
Thanks for tips and reference. I stayed at my orig.design but I also tried to make a changes based on feedback. New edit: 
with other assets 
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Posted By: RebeaLeion
Date Posted: 10 November 2014 at 5:23pm
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So how excatly to animate - well the reference book won't help me much as I am not so perfect in English when it comes to terms, etc. (not native speaker), I looked @book but it's not in our language.
NEW method I am trying. So first I tried to make some lines ( I tried to center them over hero's orig. static body +/-). I am starting with it because of feedback here + the anatomy thread, where it is common. 
It's first time I used this method. *note month ago I created animations only by rotation of body parts + edits over it, with an image that is is the best i can do. I had no much idea how to animate. I started to animate human body first when I tried legs and i drew them frame by frame. I also made a mistakes with resizing (aka, old sample, new run is above):
Now when I prepared animations with lines, I am trying to draw final shapes over it. But I am not sury if I am doing it ok. (I am trying to follow that of the anatomy thread). Guys shows usually complete animation, but I am curious about the progress itself now. Now I am @ 
I started with a head, then I added legs - body should come next as legs should move a hips.. etc. am I not following some *bad* habits here ? EDIT FEB/2016 : I am not animating using those lines. Frame by frame suits me better. |
Posted By: SuperTurnip
Date Posted: 10 November 2014 at 8:15pm
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Looks good! I'm still not a total fan of the run. Without the shoulders swinging, it's a little lifeless. That said, your new work animating looks good. Try animating actions by starting them slow, then speeding them up--then slowing them just before they finish. Small details, like having the character start the really fast stabbing by leaning back and then leaping forwards, can help tell the viewer what's happening.
The sword strike could have the character lean back a little further. I'm nitpicking for details here, sorry :) Remember to make really important frames (like the end of the sword swing) follow simple, flowing lines. Other than that, you're doing really well! |
Posted By: RebeaLeion
Date Posted: 12 November 2014 at 3:07am
10 hours of work (total time).
EDIT: I don't want to create trivial replies, so.. I agree that 10 hrs is too much, I did run animation 20hrs. I really dont know how else to create so I can make it in hour or two. When I consider that my anims're uhh...*out of places, tho I tried to keep lines in a motion last time, I don't see any more perspective in my tries.  I really don't want to animate one motion 10-20 hours (3-4-7+days) when I consdier doing it after work till the late evening. This is not how I want to make a game /pace/ I will rather postpone it. I may reconsider whole process.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YQy_N2H2c2w - youtube vid |
Posted By: Limes
Date Posted: 12 November 2014 at 9:28am
| Maybe try working on speed in the video game industry you are pretty much expected to make 10x's this ammount in 10 hours, Its really easy to practice speed, Just set a time that you want it done and strive for that goal. You'll get better. |
Posted By: SuperTurnip
Date Posted: 13 November 2014 at 7:30pm
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10 hrs is good if you haven't been at it for years... You'll begin to get a feeling for the weights and forms of bodies as you go along. You've dropped whole days of work into the character here, and it's improved a great amount. Do reconsider how you draw and what you're doing--thinking about your art can help.
Remember: First you get good. Then you get fast. Then you get better. |
Posted By: jtfjtfjtf
Date Posted: 14 November 2014 at 7:57am
| I agree with SuperTurnip, work on getting good first. Since you're in the learning/thinking phase you're probably always scrutinizing your decisions and that's a good thing. Once you develop familiarity with your subject and your workflow then speed will come with just doing things over and over again. And then you learn new things, slow down a little to be conscious of your decisions and absorb them and add them to your workflow, and then you're fast again. |
Posted By: RebeaLeion
Date Posted: 22 November 2014 at 6:36pm
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I gave up on this sprite, it was too difficult for me at this phase (yes difficult + very time consuming). I remade sprite again (made few anims, all are visible in the vid - link). All together took me around 4 hrs when I consider I remade some (6), its improvement anyway, i did it faster but truth is its simple. new sprite fits in a game more (compared to goblins, etc.)
New sprite is on vid now: (in motion) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=myPQklrKJ78 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=myPQklrKJ78 I also changed this on the edge anim. not excatly like : , but I did it with this in mind :o) hanging anim in the vid + motion.
example: I did this jump anim excatly 1 hr. 
EDIT : exc.my eng. 
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Posted By: Limes
Date Posted: 23 November 2014 at 7:46pm
| That looks fantastic! |
Posted By: PixelSnader
Date Posted: 24 November 2014 at 1:36pm
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Speed isn't the goal. Especially for the main character, take your time. Right now you still have a -lot- of random motion and conflicting animation (where frame A to B shows one direction/motion, and B to C a completely different one.)
The spinny one has super messy hair. The face itself is okay, the legs are kinda wobbly, and the arms are just flapping about. The bottom one... is supposed to be a run I guess? But it doesn't work at all. first make the animation, then add the shapes, then add the shading, then add the details: ------------- ▄▄█ ▄▄█ ▄█▄ ▄█▄ |
Posted By: RebeaLeion
Date Posted: 01 December 2014 at 8:41am
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Alright if I may reanimate character when I have more of work done, till then I got some feedback that I should just move on now and reanimate later.
I have no much time lately to work on... title screen - ( few-th try ) : 
ver2 with full sword // edit : i fixed V (out and in, not in pic) 
also quick edit of hair : 
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Posted By: Limes
Date Posted: 01 December 2014 at 9:50am
| Background isn't bad at all. |
Posted By: Finlal
Date Posted: 01 December 2014 at 10:53am
| I like menu, but maybe it would look better without character sitting on it? |
Posted By: RebeaLeion
Date Posted: 01 December 2014 at 12:06pm
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Here's quick test why chara is sitting on it :
*video link removed* vid is down clouds ll be slower this was just quick edit menu - try / concept |
Posted By: skittle
Date Posted: 01 December 2014 at 2:37pm
| I like the idea, but the mountains kind of seem to stick out a bit too much imo. Also, the red near the horizon really competes with the blue clouds and mountains. Maybe you should go for some less saturated colours and first make a gradient and then pixel in some clouds afterwards? Just a suggestion, keep at it though |
Posted By: RebeaLeion
Date Posted: 06 December 2014 at 1:47am
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I tried some cave tileset :
edit : light of upper side (of bottom layer) is off in the pic, I fixed it. *cave picture is missing* link removed |
Posted By: Damian
Date Posted: 06 December 2014 at 4:15am
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Just a thought, but, when people go smaller in pixel art, I've noticed a tendency to try and cram small objects everywhere. At this size, too much small, creates a lot of noise. Try and break up that background tile with a rock that is 10x the size of the others. In real caves I'm almost certain that the majority of rocks and cave walls will be larger relative to the persons size, it doesn't hurt to look at references for a short amount of time.
I like the change in direction, try and stick to it from now on. keep up the good work. |
Posted By: RebeaLeion
Date Posted: 07 December 2014 at 4:55am
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Damian:Thanks for a tip, I will try to experiment with a bigger backgroud shapes in the future.
---------------------------------------------- I tried house, uh that's so hard. Very hard, took me around 6-7 hrs. First is on the left, the second is quick edit 
I bow down in front of ADrawingMan and his excellent houses. |
Posted By: SuperTurnip
Date Posted: 08 December 2014 at 9:22pm
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Light the entire front of the house... or is it the front? It's very unclear what shape the houses are. The roof says rectangular, but the wall shading is almost incomprehensible. If both of the walls are on the front-facing side of the house, they should be lit the same.
I really like how you've simplified for the houses though. Your other work can be a bit noisy, so it's good to see you trying something different. The extra control is welcome. Compared to the grass and trees, it clashes a lot. Can you find a balance between lots of details and a simpler and more controlled way of working? It's good to see your progress. Keep up the good work. |
Posted By: RebeaLeion
Date Posted: 09 December 2014 at 5:54am
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Two edits ::
I find 1th (on left) very bright tho, so I tried a second attempt to change a look a bit by adding a shadow to back side to make a front - more front like. So is the second (right one) better than the original (first posted above) ? 
EDIT3 : avoiding to multiposting. /i now changed a way how I handle the right window. dont mind crates, its alpha-testplay scrn. 
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Posted By: eishiya
Date Posted: 09 December 2014 at 7:05am
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Having the windows be in shadow makes the building look hexagonal. If the door and windows are on the same plane, they should receive the same light. Is the house a split-level or something? The windows are too high to be on the same level as the door, too low to be on a second floor. |
Posted By: RebeaLeion
Date Posted: 10 December 2014 at 9:52am
latest version of houses.
edit/update : 
here I used adrwaing's man house as a reference, i hope he won't be angry about this. (I find him as good artist and this house / shape helped me a lot) edit / update 2 : after this shop I realized how should I tune the other house too so I reedit it. 
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Posted By: SuperTurnip
Date Posted: 11 December 2014 at 5:19pm
| Good improvement. It looks odd that the door is so high above the ground, and the windows ARE too high up for a person that small to actually use. You might want to draw smaller houses! But your technique is getting better. Keep drawing! |
Posted By: RebeaLeion
Date Posted: 12 December 2014 at 1:08pm
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I made smaller houses. they can be seen in this concept sheet here :
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-MlCQzhP6Z-E/VItYEIUUjtI/AAAAAAAABsg/_NvVNQo8U58/s1600/backg.png - http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-MlCQzhP6Z-E/VItYEIUUjtI/AAAAAAAABsg/_NvVNQo8U58/s1600/backg.png |
Posted By: eishiya
Date Posted: 12 December 2014 at 1:12pm
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I think those new houses look better, but the same two issues from before remain: - the houses aren't drawn at the same scale as the character so they look out of place - the shading on the houses seems to suggest a very different shape to them than the linework/feature placement does. What is the purpose of the shadow on the front of the buildings, if not to separate planes? |
Posted By: RebeaLeion
Date Posted: 13 December 2014 at 4:31pm
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I am still working on houses, trying to do a little adjustments.
Meantime I took a break and did some mushrooms and branches. I used red from this pallete for mushroom hat: , it helped me a lot. (Link does not work, uh. its one from color thread - those spheres) 
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Posted By: eishiya
Date Posted: 13 December 2014 at 4:59pm
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I think the mushrooms look great! However, your background elements are too similar in their value range to the foreground, so it's hard to tell which is which. It looks like you are using a reduced value and hue range for the background, which is good, but it needs to be reduced even more. I'd also be wary of using so much red for the mushrooms unless they're foreground interactable elements, as red stands out a lot from the background. The character being red is a great idea for that same reason, though. |
Posted By: RebeaLeion
Date Posted: 16 December 2014 at 11:25am
I changed sign, please let me know what do u think about the new one. |
Posted By: eishiya
Date Posted: 16 December 2014 at 11:42am
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I think the new sign looks better, except for that triangular area of... paint? light? It looks extraneous if it's paint, and nonsensical if it's light. The white lines near the edge also don't read as anything in particular. If they're meant to be highlights, I don't think you need them since wood isn't normally that shiny (unless it's treated, but that sign doesn't look that fancy). The old sign looked made of distinct boards because the edges (especially on the right) were irregular with some implied gaps between the boards. I think that gave it more personality, whereas the new one seems like it's a solid board with some irregularities. I think if it's meant to be multiple boards, you should incorporate some of that edge irregularity into the new one, while keeping the interior of the sign free of the dark shadows. The shading on the sign makes the sign look spherical. The sign is largely a flat plane, there's no reason for it to have that rounded gradation of shadows on it unless it's being lit by a very weak light source (e.g. a candle) that's right next to it. If this is for a game, I'd avoid such specific light sources and aim for something more general, like a distant overhead light source. Such a light source would make your forms easier to read, and it'd make it easier to make all the game objects to look like they belong together no matter where you put your in-game light sources (if you have any at all). |
Posted By: RebeaLeion
Date Posted: 16 December 2014 at 11:45am
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is here any example of this distant overhead light source ?
I combined borders from 1st sign. 
or a test without a light : 
with 
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Posted By: eishiya
Date Posted: 16 December 2014 at 12:18pm
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The light source I am describing is the standard for 2D games, you've seen it everywhere. Here's a generic cube http://gas13.ru/v3/tutorials/c0.gif - stolen from Gas13's tutorial . Look how each side of the cube is a solid colour. This is because they are flat planes, and the light source is distant and bright enough that its falloff (gradual diminishing of intensity with distance) is irrelevant to the scale of this cube. With very weak light sources, the falloff is raid enough to be seen, http://edisonlightglobes.com/Shop/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/TwoBirds-brewing-wall-3-candle-pipe-light.jpg - like with these lights . With weak light sources, it's possible that one part of a flat plane will get noticeable more light than another, but with strong light sources, the light will be (practically) equal across every part of the surface. This is desirable because it makes your assets work in any part of your game without looking weird. The lighting you have on that sign now would only look natural if the sign is positioned right next to a small light source, which isn't practical for a game. Here are examples from various games that use distant light sources for their shading, note how the flat surfaces all have a flat level of light/shadow, and how the level of light/shadow only changes at corners and curves (or where an object is casting a shadow on another): http://f.ptcdn.info/115/007/000/1373515922-7-o.jpg - Seiken Densetsu 3 http://nin.vgf.com/previews/ffta/ffta2.jpg - Final Fantasy Tactics Advance http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-NmhNWpQGUhM/U3X-n_M3njI/AAAAAAAAAu4/OwQl4QHysfE/s1600/Metal+Slug+3+On+Steam+-N2G.png - Metal Slug 3 is full of detail, but look at how all the shadows are the result of irregular forms, and flat surfaces have a consistent shadow instead of one that fades out. The metal-suit guys are a great example of flat surfaces, but check out the wagon too. The part facing the sky is the brightest, and the sides are darker because they're facing away from the light (with internal variation because they're irregular rather than perfectly smooth). http://24.media.tumblr.com/65abceb29a781f217a8ce68c765d504c/tumblr_mlsmo3YQ341rj0nreo1_1280.png - Chasm also illustrates this - levels of shadow change for exactly 2 reasons*, surfaces turning/curving away from the distant light source, and cast shadows. Basically, the distant strong light source is what most people tend to use unless they're specifically aiming for another type of lighting. You were probably thinking in similar terms too, but then added that rounded shadow just for visual interest. I can understand the desire to add visual interest, but making your flat sign look like a bulbous shape isn't a great way to achieve that xP * Actually 3, there's also something called ambient occlusion that makes concave corners and such darker, but that's irrelevant for a free-standing object such as your sign. Ambient occlusion is found in most of the better-drawn games out there, but it's an effect that happens regardless of light source and has nothing to do with the lighting problems in your sign. |
Posted By: RebeaLeion
Date Posted: 19 December 2014 at 2:47pm
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All advices're really helping me a lot.
My last sign edit, I think I fixed shadows now ? Font is a little messy but clean one did not fit in goblin's territory. 
a little off: Here's a vid that's capturing how my concept/assets progressed since april, when I started with pixelart. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Feg3vR2evCk - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Feg3vR2evCk |
Posted By: RBL
Date Posted: 19 December 2014 at 8:00pm
| Try to avoid noisy or dithered textures if the game is intended for scaled viewing. Dithering came from the analog monitor era. |
Posted By: RebeaLeion
Date Posted: 21 December 2014 at 1:27pm
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I am keeping a lot of different trees (different style of creation) in game, but it quite does not matter as it creates forest together. I however discovered a very simple and easy way to create graphic now and I m sticking to it (so far) and its quite ok readable in the game.
I even uploaded quick tutorial for beginners. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=97O1ELnOKxk - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=97O1ELnOKxk Everyone could draw such simple thing as this (I just didnt think of it sooner).(I made special brush of leaf shape and it's really helpful for this style too). same style was used here : 
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Posted By: eishiya
Date Posted: 21 December 2014 at 1:55pm
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The parallax sky in the gif looks wrong. If it's not going to scroll in x, it should also not scroll in y. |
Posted By: RebeaLeion
Date Posted: 23 December 2014 at 12:04am
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Originally posted by eishiya I changed p. of X, it's now moving too along with mountains.
The parallax sky in the gif looks wrong. If it's not going to scroll in x, it should also not scroll in y. 
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Posted By: Turon
Date Posted: 23 December 2014 at 3:03am
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This looks like a very interesting game, does it have RPG elements? The ground kind of reminds me of "Grasstown" in Cave Story. |
Posted By: SuperTurnip
Date Posted: 23 December 2014 at 12:09pm
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The goblin in the background is an awesome touch. :)
I think you can get rid of the noisiness under the grass, and in the background trees (which have, by the way, improved a HUGE amount! Great work!). You have a lot of very simple tiles and sprites, and a lot of very complicated ones. They look good from far away, because your colours are nice, but closer up they can seem out of place. Toning down the noisiest sprites and adding details to the simplest ones means you don't need to change everything, but it'll help make everything fit together. |
Posted By: RebeaLeion
Date Posted: 23 December 2014 at 12:32pm
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Turon> yes. This is RPG's concept zone. I decided that I will create a concept zone first - how a game could look like. I uploaded a full-play vid for friends, but you can take a look too if u d like to.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=97O1ELnOKxk - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ycg7J8ol4-U /vid description. You can see it combines both new and old assets together as I didnt want to rework everything. I think it kinda works together. Turnip, You actually noticed a goblin! usually you don´t even notice during a play :) ( he will move on the bridge too,I m having his walk anim done but I ll have to code it later). Which trees do you mean ? those in the latest pic with the goblin on the bridge ? Two on the left ? What noisy is there ? those-re leaf like shapes. Those on , same like on this tree : 
I like pixeljoint. I m getting Many useful tips here. So happy Christmas now! |
Posted By: RebeaLeion
Date Posted: 24 December 2014 at 6:12am
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I didnt do much and I won't these few days but I did some quick noise? edit on the grass, because everyone is telling me to :) so here it is, how do you like the new one ? i d like to keep texture instead of one colour blocks. Original is the upper one: 
EDIT : I plan another edit of grass in the future I think I know what you meant. It's little distracting. |
Posted By: RebeaLeion
Date Posted: 02 January 2015 at 11:49pm
| edit: early alpha link was here, downlaod removed as assets were outdated. |
Posted By: RebeaLeion
Date Posted: 09 January 2015 at 2:10pm
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final grass touch ? removed the noisy things.
EDIT2016: This was still noisy, I didnt realize back then. 
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