Discussion

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eishiya (Level 6 SWAT) @ 11/10/2018 15:08

There are a couple of unsuitable (accidental?) entries to this week's challenge, and only one real entry so far D: Hopefully there'll be more entries within the coming day but I'm worried these other entries might prevent the challenge from staying open even though it should. Looks like the mods took care of the extra entries. Thanks!


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Hapiel (Level 11 Admiral) @ 11/8/2018 02:34

Happy birthday! Just yesterday I was showing the juggling dolphin yellow tutu unimotor to a friend, haha!


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Theoden (Level 6 SWAT) @ 11/8/2018 00:48

Happy birthday Elk!


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Irenaart (Level 7 Sheriff) @ 11/8/2018 00:05

@Elk; Happy birthday, man!


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Hapiel (Level 11 Admiral) @ 11/5/2018 13:07

I've started playing Duelyst again, anyone here who's on there? Find me as "hapiwel" :)


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Theoden (Level 6 SWAT) @ 10/30/2018 13:17

Thanks for checking out buddy! :)


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Mandrill (Level 8 Partner) @ 10/30/2018 07:52

Excellent, buddy!


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Theoden (Level 6 SWAT) @ 10/29/2018 12:53

Thanks a lot man!


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ArcadeHero (Level 6 SWAT) @ 10/29/2018 12:13

That's sick, dude! Keep it up c:


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Theoden (Level 6 SWAT) @ 10/29/2018 07:11

Hey!
Just uploaded a guitar cover of the song Metropolis from Dream Theater.
Here's the YouTube [link], cheers!


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Adarias (Level 11 Special Agent) @ 10/27/2018 10:45

@ParkerBabyDiaperCompany yes, most of the conversation not directly about a given piece of art moved to discord.  Personally I think it is a better format; the chatterbox sometimes encourages diatribes over dialogue. 

The separation between the gallery site and the discord server can make PJ look less active, but only superficially; We have as much gallery engagement (new works, ratings, comments) today as we have ever.


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Adarias (Level 11 Special Agent) @ 10/27/2018 10:28

@gizmonicgamer sorry about the wait.

Our goal is to make sure every piece gets fair exposure.  There are only 6 spots on the front page for new works, and peices on the front page get considerably more attention.  Once a piece leaves the front page, views fall off dramatically unless it comes back around in the weekly, monthly, or hof views.  We add a max of about 25-30 pieces per day, allowing each new work about 4-6 hours in the spotlight.

As far as the order of approval, we try to keep things first-in-first-out, but there are some exceptions.  We try to fast-track things like challenge entries, which have a deadline, while pieces that might stretch the guidelines might wait a little longer for the community to vote them in or out.

The good news is that the site has been highly active the last few weeks.  Between Octobit, some great weekly challenges and other activity, we've had pretty high volumes.  The bad news is that this can mean longer queue times.  But rest assured, it is statistically better to wait an extra day or two in the queue than it is to miss out on your front-page time.


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Adarias (Level 11 Special Agent) @ 10/27/2018 10:12

@Eishiya, as far as we're concerned, any pixel art news is fair game.  If you want to submit it as a new link, feel free!  You could also message the artist if you want to be sure.  We'd be happy to post it once submitted.


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ParkerBabyDiaperCompany (Level 4 Team Leader) @ 10/25/2018 12:42

Is the Discord the reason the chatterbox is so inactive now? 

@Gizmonicgamer 
Sometimes pieces just seem to fall through the cracks until someone draws the admins' attention to it. 


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Gizmonicgamer (Level 4 Deputy) @ 10/25/2018 12:26

what's the average wait-time for a piece to be approved, again...? i've been waiting for a few days, and it ~looks~ like other pieces have been uploaded later and approved earlier than mine, provided i'm reading the information correctly


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eishiya (Level 6 SWAT) @ 10/23/2018 13:22

I don't want to submit news on someone else's behalf, but Sersch's Monster Sanctuary Kickstarter is live! I'm not actually sure whether they're on PixelJoint, but they've posted a lot on Pixelation and it's a pretty- and fun-looking pixel art game.


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Adarias (Level 11 Special Agent) @ 10/20/2018 17:23

@StoneStephenT: Not a bad idea!  With the holidays coming up I think we have several of the next challenges already lined up, but we're always open to ideas.  If you don't end up seeing it as a weekly, you can always start posting some yourself and see if it catches on :)


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StoneStephenT (Level 8 Guerrilla) @ 10/20/2018 15:53

Idea for a future weekly challenge: Make a two-color piece using color combinations from https://botsin.space/@accessibleColors.


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Adarias (Level 11 Special Agent) @ 10/20/2018 13:17

@Schog nice!  If you or anyone else ends up entering a pixel art game, feel free to submit it as a news item as well, or artwork from it to the gallery.


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Schoq (Level 4 Button Man) @ 10/18/2018 05:07

Just wanna inform all of you into game dev that this is going on!
https://www.tigsource.com/2018/09/29/the-wholesome-competition/


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ParkerBabyDiaperCompany (Level 4 Team Leader) @ 10/15/2018 14:32

Thanks. I just picked the colors from a big mixed bag of them. 


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Theoden (Level 6 SWAT) @ 10/15/2018 14:01

@ParkerBabyDiaperCompany

Good work with the beads man.
Did you paint them or picked the colors you needed?


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ParkerBabyDiaperCompany (Level 4 Team Leader) @ 10/13/2018 11:46

Check out what I put up on my wall. i.imgur.com/wd6cr1j.jpg


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Theoden (Level 6 SWAT) @ 10/12/2018 00:43

@eishiya
I will think about this, thank you eishiya.


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eishiya (Level 6 SWAT) @ 10/11/2018 08:02

@Theoden: It's definitely not good to just leave the pieces on the queue, but I'm not sure that a message like that is necessarily "better", because I think it's at least as likely to alienate newcomers as to get them thinking, especially if they're new to art in general. Instead, I think coming up with a few canned responses for different common scenarios would be a good solution, since it would both allow you to get these responses out with minimal effort, and still give people the information they need.


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Theoden (Level 6 SWAT) @ 10/11/2018 07:44

@eishiya:

Sure, a simple color reduction advice is nowhere near ideal nor as helpful as it should be but at least it might start them thinking about why they should reduce colors in the first place and I think it is better than saying nothing and keeping the piece in the queue for months.
I agree that these sort of messages can be more expansive though.


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eishiya (Level 6 SWAT) @ 10/11/2018 07:03

@Theoden, I think your comments on pieces with high colour counts would benefit from explanations regarding why those colour counts may be inappropriate, i.e. how they harm or fail to benefit the piece, why a smaller palette might be beneficial, etc. To a newcomer, a comment like that with no explanation just sounds elitist and doesn't teach them anything useful.

In some cases, it's an issue of poor reuse and/or lack of thought about colours, which leads to a palette with no unity. In some, the extra colours come from noise (intentional or not) and are a symprom rather than a cause. In some, it's due to NPA tools being used, either due to misunderstanding the medium, or simply by mistake. These cases should all be handled differently.


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Theoden (Level 6 SWAT) @ 10/11/2018 00:57

Thank your very much JerryPie! And yes, Hap will be missed greatly. His contributions to PJ are very valuable, hope he will continue to be with us.

Just wanted to say that I have been sending notifications to works that have high color count in the public queue. At least to give newcomers an idea of why their piece is not being accepted into the gallery if they didn't read the rules or are totally new to the concept of palette control. 

In my humble opinion a relatively small pixel work should ideally have a color count not exceeding two digits. Maybe around 64 max. And max 128 for large and complex works. 

We have always seen exceptions to these sort of rules before but as JerryPie stated we are doing our best to find a good balance.

I believe palette control is the trickiest part to tackle for most beginners and may become a huge wall that prevents their progress.

I would always be happy to hear your opinions and crits about any subject.
Thank you all for your contributions to the matter!


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JerryPie (Level 11 Godfather) @ 10/10/2018 09:25

Welcome Theoden and Adarias. Great candidates! Hap will definitely be missed as a mod. :(

Regarding DawnBringers concerns on a couple of pieces that made it into the gallery. This has always happened when new mods start donating their time. It happened with me as well. Trying to please everyone and follow the rules can put you in a vulnerable position. I would be more concerned if a new mod came in overly zealous about shutting down every submission for minor infractions. This is a much gentler approach. I agree there were some issues with a few pieces. It's been discussed and we're moving forward with the focus on our strict PJ rules. 

To the mods thank you, for offering your time to help the community. To the active members, thank you for staying vigilant and voicing concerns/praises.


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Adarias (Level 11 Special Agent) @ 10/10/2018 07:57

Thanks everybody.  After ~13 years of stepping in and out of the shadows, I'm happy to be given the opportunity to give back to the community as a moderator.

@DawnBringer the new rules definitely need to be broken in.  I believe they represent a step forward, and I know Theoden and myself will be doing our best to interpret them in a way that benefits the community, just as other mods have long been doing.

With regard to certain works being accepted, the balance between inclusiveness and consistency is a hard one.  It happened that several works stretching the rules came in all at once while the pendulum was in the more open-minded part of its arc.

Several of these pieces were discussed among the mods and the decision was not unanimous.  This is a good thing -- healthy debate makes us a stronger community. You are also free to dislike these pieces and disagree with the decision.

If you look however at the Monthly Top, not just this month, but last month and the month before, I would hope you see what I see -- that the community continues to favor well-drawn, hand-wrought pixel art above any other type of work submitted.

Focussing on the few pieces that don't align with a particular ideal is a great way to miss all the excellent pieces that do.


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Gecimen (Level 11 Master Assassin) @ 10/10/2018 07:35

I think you don't like the recently accepted pieces?


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DawnBringer (Level 10 Maniac) @ 10/10/2018 05:02

So much for the new rules. PJ has really gone down the shitter... :(


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Theoden (Level 6 SWAT) @ 10/9/2018 23:43

Thank you!


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Jinn (Level 11 Godfather) @ 10/9/2018 19:21

I'm looking forward to it!


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ParkerBabyDiaperCompany (Level 4 Team Leader) @ 10/9/2018 16:07

Welcome.


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Hapiel (Level 11 Admiral) @ 10/9/2018 15:05

Yay! I'm super excited that those two are on the team now!

I'll announce here then that I'm stepping down from being a mod, at least for the forseeable future. I have not been active over summer as I was touring with a show, and I continue to be busy and interested in too many things outside of my internet life. But as long as there is a PJ family for me to come back to, you'll sure see me around here again one day!


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Gecimen (Level 11 Master Assassin) @ 10/9/2018 13:43

Hello everyone. Please welcome two newest PJ moderators, Adarias and Theoden! 


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Irenaart (Level 7 Sheriff) @ 10/8/2018 07:24

@Snake; Happy birthday, man!

and hello @Elk!


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Elk (Level 5 Assistant Manager) @ 10/7/2018 23:04

hello


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Irenaart (Level 7 Sheriff) @ 10/4/2018 05:09

@orangemagik; Happy B-day! Amazing gallery!


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StoneStephenT (Level 8 Guerrilla) @ 10/1/2018 22:13

The contrast thing is more about readability than anything; I know that at small sizes like 28px, sprites/emotes/etc. need higher contrast between colors for better readability. I always worry that my stuff - when I do make stuff - lacks that readability-enhancing contrast. (Like I said: My eyes ain't what they used to be.) I'm also hesitant to show others my WIPs (I prefer getting feedback after I feel like I'm "finished") for a number of reasons. But I spent most of my pixelling time today messing around with palette creation by way of editing old game screenshots, so I got that going for me.


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neota (Level 8 Shodan) @ 10/1/2018 20:47

Your avatar contrast seems fine to me (though of course I don't know exactly how dramatic it was supposed to be)


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StoneStephenT (Level 8 Guerrilla) @ 10/1/2018 19:51

I do tend to overthink and overprepare for any creative work I do. Don't wanna do anything half-*ssed, right? 😆

But I have issues with colors besides putting together a palette. My eyesight ain't what it used to be, and that gives me a little trouble with the whole "contrast" thing, so I never really know for sure whether something has enough contrast between colors to make it readable. (Just look at my current avatar for proof!) The only other issue I have is figuring out the whole saturation thing - though I suppose that, too, is more an issue of not experimenting more with what I do.

I appreciate the advice! Now I just need to figure out something to pixel... 😅


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neota (Level 8 Shodan) @ 10/1/2018 19:41

That's all general art stuff (light behaviour, color theory, reducing complex blends to a well defined stack of 2-4 tones, working from super general thumbnail to specifics). Arne's art tutorial gives a good sketch of the area .

Opening a ordinary paint program, grabbing a huge, super fuzzy brush and just throwing together hundreds of 'color compos' (fill canvas with primary color; pick secondary color, paint over part of the compo. pick another color, paint over a smaller area than that, and so on.. 3-5 colors) is a good way to get into it. You can also use that method as a quick (2-3 minutes, skip to next one if you haven't finished in time) study of how the artists you like use colors -- not to eyeball all the colors in the palette, but to reduce them to a small, thoughtfully proportioned representative set that 'feels the same', that's the point.

That's my opinion: there's no substitute for a large volume of narrowly-focused work, in developing a feel for things, and so thinking about 'exactly how saturated' isn't that helpful. Being able to look at something and reproduce the basic color relationships quickly and faithfully, is the essential skill, and IMO formal analysis is functionally antagonistic to that. A sense of the meaning of more saturation, less saturation, this color, that color, can arise naturally from that volume of work. Formal things like color theory provide just a few basic landmarks to begin exploration from.

(incidentally, the numbers in most color systems don't have a very consistent meaning, so attempting to reason about them can result in silliness -- eg. RGB #808080 is not a 50% mix between #000000 and #ffffff; a true 50% mix between those two colors is #bababa. Lch, HCY, HSI, and Lab are the closest to reliable, but they are not very commonly available.)


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Adarias (Level 11 Special Agent) @ 10/1/2018 18:34

@StoneStephenT I have found the best is to just start pushing, feel things out.  There's a strong chance the piece you begin will not be the peice you end up finishing, with both the meaning and content emerging along the way. Excessive preplanning usually creates doubt that criples the piece. This isn't only true for pixel art, but just about any form of creative expression.

When in doubt I start with a medium, neutral ground tone and work into it with a light and a dark.  Other people work by throwing splotches of color around until they start to form something.  Still others start from photo or collage.  The trick is finding a method, any method, to kick off your creative process, because you'll never hit your stride if you don't start!


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StoneStephenT (Level 8 Guerrilla) @ 10/1/2018 04:03

Y'know, I'd do more pixel art if I could just figure out what colors to build a palette from. And what kind of palette I wanted to use (desaturated, saturated, that sort of thing). I look at all the wonderful pixel art stuff out there and wonder how the h*ck y'all do that. 😅


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Hapiel (Level 11 Admiral) @ 9/30/2018 16:32

Yay, happy birthdays you two!!!


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Irenaart (Level 7 Sheriff) @ 9/30/2018 03:19

Happy birthday @Mrmo Tarius and  @Mr_Hk_!


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Manupix (Level 11 Godfather) @ 9/28/2018 04:42

Speaking of whom, thanks to him (I guess) for the long-awaited horizontal scrollbar


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FoxTurtle (Level 5 Soldier) @ 9/22/2018 09:44

Oh, ok, interesting




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