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pmprog
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Quote pmprog Replybullet Topic: New Software
    Posted: 25 September 2005 at 2:01am
Hi,

 I'm currently writing a new graphics package primarily designed for pixel art. It will be free for anyone to use. What I would like is suggestions for tools/options to include to make pixelling easy.

Planned Featues:
@ Supported formats: PNG, BMP, GIF, JPG, and PPA (my own format)
@ Layers (only saved in my own format)
@ Transparancy (in formats which allow)
@ Zoom (Quick zoom controlled by mouse wheel)
@ Pen
@ Fill
@ Dither Calculator

My Dither Calculator will be a tool where you put your two colours, and how far apart they are, and it will try to work out how many and which colours would look best at dithering between the two.

If you have an idea and feel like sharing, please send me any suggestions by PM on PixelJoint, or post a reply to this topic.

 Thanks,
  Mark
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Quote Zoomrix Replybullet Posted: 25 September 2005 at 1:29pm

@ A preview window with the 100% zoomed out view. (Like in paint when you go to View > Thumbnail and it shows you the progress at 100% zoom)

If you know what I mean.  It's a really useful feature. And I would definately use your program if you added that.

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Quote pmprog Replybullet Posted: 25 September 2005 at 2:13pm
Originally posted by Zoomrix

@ A preview window with the 100% zoomed out view. (Like in paint when you go to View > Thumbnail and it shows you the progress at 100% zoom)



Added to the ToDo list. Thanks
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pangaru
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Quote pangaru Replybullet Posted: 11 October 2005 at 4:27pm
Cool idea, how about an eraser?
Oh, and maybe something that shows the properties of the picture (like how many colors used, how large it is)
I swear, adjustable waistbands are going to take over the world...
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Quote Pixel_Outlaw Replybullet Posted: 11 October 2005 at 6:19pm

Well some dithering like the older computers like the black and white pattern dithering. Also a SAVE a Palette unlike paint which never saves your colors.

What language are you gonna use?

I wish you the best, nobody really liked my palette generator.

 



Edited by Pixel_Outlaw
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pmprog
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Quote pmprog Replybullet Posted: 12 October 2005 at 12:08am

Originally posted by pangaru

Cool idea, how about an eraser?

Normally I would say just use the background colour of the pen, however, when I add the layers facility, you'll want to be able to remove pixels from the layer rather than painting them a background colour. Added to the ToDo list

Originally posted by pangaru


Oh, and maybe something that shows the properties of the picture (like how many colors used, how large it is)

Dimensions and colour depth will be shown. Should be able to calc colours used, so I'll add it to the ToDo list.

Originally posted by Pixel_Outlaw


Well some dithering like the older computers like the black and white pattern dithering. Also a SAVE a Palette unlike paint which never saves your colors.

It already saves the palette
In my planned features I already had a dither calc, maybe extend it into a brush?

Originally posted by Pixel_Outlaw

What language are you gonna use?

VB.NET, I wanted to build it quite quickly, and it gave me quick access to various graphic formats etc. It's not too bad, but it'll require the .NET framework to run. Sorry

Originally posted by Pixel_Outlaw

I wish you the best, nobody really liked my palette generator.

Thanks. I wouldn't feel too disheartened, very few people use any of the programs/games I write. But as long as I use them, it will always seem worth while.

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Akira
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Quote Akira Replybullet Posted: 12 October 2005 at 1:36am
So when will this thing be up for trial?
If you really want to make it pixel art specific you are going to have to have some sort of animation function.

@Pixel_Outlaw: Once you get to a certain level outside programs for generating colours become a hinderance.
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pmprog
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Quote pmprog Replybullet Posted: 12 October 2005 at 5:55am

Originally posted by Akira

So when will this thing be up for trial?

The palette mode images are giving me some major problems at the moment. I need to re-write that entire section. I will try and get a Alpha version up at the weekend. It will be missing most of it's features, but it will allow you the absolute basic (create new image, load and save images, and draw on them in colours)

Originally posted by Akira

If you really want to make it pixel art specific you are going to have to have some sort of animation function. 

Had thought about this, although I'm not sure if GDI+ can produce animated GIF's... I'll check it out

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Quote Filax_666 Replybullet Posted: 12 October 2005 at 10:09am
Will it work on mac? cause i rarely have acess to a windows and i
would like to try this when its ready...

Edited by Filax_666
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Quote pmprog Replybullet Posted: 12 October 2005 at 11:31am
Originally posted by Filax_666

Will it work on mac? cause i barely have acess to a windows and i
would like to try this when its ready...


You might just be in luck... GDI+ is being a PIA with paletted images , so I'm thinking of switching language to C and using the SDL library, which means it would be compilable on Windows, Mac, *nix' etc.

Unfortunately, this will push back the alpha, but I am seriously considering the change...
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Quote Pixel_Outlaw Replybullet Posted: 12 October 2005 at 8:58pm
When can we see the project? I want screens!!!!!
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Quote ex0 Replybullet Posted: 11 November 2005 at 1:45pm
What might be nice for iso artists is when you use the line tool you can 'lock' it into the perfect iso lines as opposed to only locking it 90 degrees like most graphic editors by holding shift.
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Quote KaZoiTeZ Replybullet Posted: 30 November 2005 at 5:27am
i wood like it if you coud switch the color by using the mouse wheel.
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Quote randomblink Replybullet Posted: 08 December 2005 at 10:28am
Alright...
Does anyone have information on this program? I, for one, would love to check this out... A programmer who is actually TALKING WITH THE END USERS...!!! This is amazing, shows alot of initiative... Hell, if it comes anywhere near the level of Graphics Gale? I would pay you for a copy...
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Quote pmprog Replybullet Posted: 08 December 2005 at 10:37am
Originally posted by randomblink

Alright...
Does anyone have information on this program? I, for one, would love to check this out... A programmer who is actually TALKING WITH THE END USERS...!!! This is amazing, shows alot of initiative... Hell, if it comes anywhere near the level of Graphics Gale? I would pay you for a copy...


I'm afraid this program hasn't got very far. Work has become very busy, and my spare time has been spent decorating my house.

Don't despair, I will produce something, I just don't know when


Edited by pmprog
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Quote randomblink Replybullet Posted: 08 December 2005 at 10:50am
Hey...
I haven't installed it yet. But I have .NET developer... I am not that familiar with it? But I have done some extensive programming in VB6. I would happily work with ya, if you could use some help... that is if you will join me in my fight against evil... ahem... seriously tho, I would LOVE to help out... Sounds like fun...

Not promising that I would BE much help... But I sure would try...
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Quote Di0xygen Replybullet Posted: 08 December 2005 at 11:48am
add a control click eyedropper and a wheelclick pan control

Those are very usefuls addition to any art programs imo


Looks good so far
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Quote Shark Replybullet Posted: 08 December 2005 at 12:32pm
a neat thing i use on photoshop is when i press 'd' the foreground
and background colors reset to black and white. 'x' is also used for
switching between them.
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Quote PixelSnader Replybullet Posted: 08 December 2005 at 2:14pm

it might be a cool idea to have something that will allow add ons, like a module that will alow you to put walking-anim-skelly's in the lowest layer, that will be automatically removed if the file is exported to .gif

and EVERY software neads a tutorial for itself =)


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pmprog
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Quote pmprog Replybullet Posted: 08 December 2005 at 3:08pm
Okay, a small taster...

http://www.pmprog.co.uk/temp/ppaint01.rar

Let me know first thoughts and opinions, but please remember this is very much work in progress.

A couple of things-
1) New, Load and Save works
2) Palette selection works (no palette editor yet)
3) Drawing works ONLY on unzoomed 24bit images. Technically you can draw on zoomed ones, but the drawing won't reflect correctly


Edited by pmprog
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Quote Akira Replybullet Posted: 08 December 2005 at 7:07pm
Well i tested each format and most of them come out as expected. The jpg conversion isn't that great (compared with other gfx programs) but then jpgs never are :P.

The pencil tool only draws when the pencil is moved and this is a problem for pixel artists.

I couldn't figure out how to zoom (if thats what you meant by drawing on zoomed images).

Haven't tried loading yet

Great (small) filesize. Thats always a plus.

Good job so far and good luck with the project

Edited by Akira
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pmprog
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Quote pmprog Replybullet Posted: 09 December 2005 at 3:36am

Originally posted by Akira

Well i tested each format and most of them come out as expected. The jpg conversion isn't that great (compared with other gfx programs) but then jpgs never are :P.

All the save filters are provided by the .NET framework, I'm not sure if the JPG option is configurable (eg. change the compression ratio etc.), but lets face it, why would you not use PNG!??

Originally posted by Akira

The pencil tool only draws when the pencil is moved and this is a problem for pixel artists.

Yeah, I know about this, this is only temporary. Thanks for the heads up anyway

Originally posted by Akira

I couldn't figure out how to zoom (if thats what you meant by drawing on zoomed images).

As described in my first post, it's controlled by the mouse wheel. I will add another method of controlling it later on, but for now, it'll do.

Originally posted by Akira

Haven't tried loading yet

It's not THAT exciting

Originally posted by Akira

Great (small) filesize. Thats always a plus.

Application or image size?

Originally posted by Akira

Good job so far and good luck with the project

Thank you, keep an eye out for future versions. I'm always greatful of feedback

My thanks once again, hopefully should get a bit more done this weekend

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Quote Akira Replybullet Posted: 10 December 2005 at 11:33pm
heh. oh yeah, mouse wheel :P.
zoom fuction is nice though when you zoom in alot or load images that are too big for the window, the scroll bars and stuff appear outside another set of scroll bars (hope that made sense, i could do a screenshot if you need it) which is a bit of a pain.

how does the framework save gifs? are they automatically indexed or what?

for now though loading and saving works fine, just when you get to a more finalized version jpg compression and gif transparency/indexing would be nice.
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Quote pmprog Replybullet Posted: 11 December 2005 at 2:30am
Originally posted by Akira

heh. oh yeah, mouse wheel :P.
zoom fuction is nice though when you zoom in alot or load images that are too big for the window, the scroll bars and stuff appear outside another set of scroll bars (hope that made sense, i could do a screenshot if you need it) which is a bit of a pain.

I know what this is, I just need to modify my window resize calculations. The image scrollbars belong to the image, while the other set are the MDI (Multi-Document Interface) scrollbars, which appear when a window breaches it's boarders. This will get fixed.

As for the fileformats, I need to see what the framework can offer. I'm pretty certain I'll be able to enable transparancy on GIFs and PNGs. Hell, if I can't, there's no point using .NET
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Quote Souly Replybullet Posted: 31 December 2005 at 10:15pm

How about an auto pallet?

Creates a pallet with the colors you've used as far.

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Quote inkspot Replybullet Posted: 02 January 2006 at 5:18am
I would like it to have a money transfering option.
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Quote pmprog Replybullet Posted: 02 January 2006 at 6:30am
Originally posted by inkspot

I would like it to have a money transfering option.

Money Transfer? in a graphics package?

Just so you all know, I'm thinking of ditching this project. I'm pretty happy with Paint Shop Pro 5

Sorry
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Quote Akira Replybullet Posted: 04 January 2006 at 12:05am
dang. I thought it had alot of potential.
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Quote Pixel_Outlaw Replybullet Posted: 04 January 2006 at 7:40am
Well i for one am dissapointed.
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Quote randomblink Replybullet Posted: 04 January 2006 at 7:43am
I am a complete newb at VB.NET
But not with VB in general.
I have 10+ years exp. with VB, and pmprog has passed the torch to me.

I will be attempting to learn VB.NET as I work on this Graphics Program.
My thoughts are to use Pixeljoint as a test-base while I work on this.
So, don't be completely disappointed...

I don't know how well I will be doing on this, but I will try my best...
Peace out
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Quote pmprog Replybullet Posted: 04 January 2006 at 8:54am
Good luck (you'll probably need it with the code I sent you ), and we (or at least I) look forward to what you make out of it...

Originally posted by randomblink

I am a complete newb at VB.NET
But not with VB in general.
I have 10+ years exp. with VB, and pmprog has passed the torch to me.

I will be attempting to learn VB.NET as I work on this Graphics Program.
My thoughts are to use Pixeljoint as a test-base while I work on this.
So, don't be completely disappointed...

I don't know how well I will be doing on this, but I will try my best...
Peace out
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Quote randomblink Replybullet Posted: 04 January 2006 at 10:21am
I'm itching to start work on it...
Thanks alot man...
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Quote Shark Replybullet Posted: 04 January 2006 at 11:26pm
Good luck random, i will have to vacate to a pc one day to use it.
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Quote EvilBoogiemanX Replybullet Posted: 09 January 2006 at 3:54pm
gl random, hope it turns out good.

I found a glitch too that you might want to try fixing while you are creating this program. When you draw the pixels, if you zoom in the picture is big but when you click and drag with the mouse to add color, the pixels are super small....it is hard to explain it...ill give a S/N when i get a chance.
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Quote Akira Replybullet Posted: 10 January 2006 at 2:46pm
yeah the original developer knows about that... now i just hope that these guys will get to work
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Quote randomblink Replybullet Posted: 10 January 2006 at 2:55pm
chuckle
I took a look at the program, I can tell you RIGHT now...
This is NOT gonna be easy...
I have to start picking up VB.NET, and that isn't as easy as I thought it might be...
I am impressed at what he has put together tho...
And I want to have a program that does what "I" want it to do...
So I will not give up...
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Quote pmprog Replybullet Posted: 10 January 2006 at 3:07pm
Blink,

 Sorry I didn't have the last code of the version I released (fk knows what I did with it), but the way I did it was to draw on the unzoomed version, then refresh the screen, rather than drawing on both.

 If you have any questions or get stuck, please email me (you have my email address), and I'll answer as best as I can remember (which ain't a whole lot lately )
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Quote randomblink Replybullet Posted: 10 January 2006 at 3:44pm
Thx man...
Sweet little proggie bro...
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