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Neela
Seaman ![]() ![]() Joined: 18 July 2014 Online Status: Offline Posts: 3 |
![]() ![]() ![]() Posted: 26 July 2014 at 11:26am |
Hello pixel artists,
My name is Marlene Johansen, aka Neela. Graphics artist of sparetime hobby game-developer team LuBlu Entertainment (me and my spouse). My spouse does the coding and music part. 6 years ago, my spouse created IndieGameMusic.com; a site where musicians can offer their music to indie game-developers. Lots of search options, lots of different filetypes, and lots of different artists. Take a look at the site to get an idea of what it is. A few months later, he suggested on a pixel-artist forum (not this one though), that someone should make a similar site, but oriented around graphics. Most people thought it was a great idea, but now 6 years later still no one has picked it up. Having recently completed our 4th game project, me and my spouse are thinking about starting up this project ourselves. And this is why we've written this post; to get your feedback on this project. The idea has (of course) changed/improved a bit during the last 6 years. So here is a general short description of what we have in mind today:
Those are some of the thoughts we have. They will no doubt expand and change. My spouse and I will probably start up the project in the near future. We think it's a really interesting project, and would love to realize it. BUT, we do both have fulltime jobs + a 3-year old requiring our time, so our sparetime is quite limited. This bascially ”just” means that it'll take at least a year to make such a project, and probably more. Ok, that's it. Now we're looking forward to hearing some feedback. Suggestions and ideas are most welcome too. Edited by Neela - 27 July 2014 at 6:03am |
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jalonso
Admiral ![]() ![]() Joined: 29 November 2022 Online Status: Offline Posts: 13537 |
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Sounds like a good idea and you have enough to cover the basics with your list.
Most pixel artists are weak on the sales dept and other forms of artist management and handling so if you can add some sort of in-between service maybe even for bigger projects or when a client may want to use one lead or major artist that would be great. Most general artist management/agents/agencies are not fully versed on the technicalities of pixelart and quoting or even just determining the scope of almost any commission is scary for the less experienced. This type of service can be liberating for the artist (freedom to create) and $$ generating for you (baby's college). Make sure you keep us posted on the progress and if you need a news item/announcement let us know when you're ready. Edited by jalonso - 26 July 2014 at 11:41am |
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albertov
Seaman ![]() ![]() Joined: 09 June 2016 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2 |
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I absolutely support this idea! I'll help you with placeholder assets in beta testing phase if needed. Maybe you should change the post title and use something catchy like "The Ultimate Indie Game Developer Pixel Art Store" if you wanna get more attention, comments and ideas. It's not a joke. I think this is a great idea that really needs support from the community.
More ideas: 1) Force pixel artist to use opaque black color (RGBA 0,0,0,1) as background color for all uploads. This will help you process the image files and extract all info (palette or color count, non black pixels used, etc.). 2) Game developers buy and download sprite sheets and also all single frames, i.e, the website automatically should split the sprite sheet and store each frame in the .zip file. The pixel artist indicates the frame size (ex: 24x32) in upload phase. I now you have already mentioned this, but it's quite important. The more easy to use and upload stuff, the more pixel artist will love the system. 3) Standardized prices. I don't know if everyone will agree with this, anyway, this is the idea: automatically calculate the price of assets based on pixels used and palette color count. Big pieces consume much more time than small ones, that's obvious. And also, to me, it's easier to work with few color (ex: 4) than "big" palettes (ex: 16), so the same graphics made with 4 colors or 16 shouldn't cost the same. With standardized prices you avoid unfair competition via excessive price drops on same quality assets. Indie game developers will look for the best quality and the style that fits their needs and budget. Win-win. To calculate the price of each asset, you could use the following variables: - Total pixels used (non black pixels count). - Palette color count. - Cost per pixel (your website will decide this constant after some tests in beta stage). 4) Licenses. I prefer to use only one license: exclusive. Assets can be purchased once. Then, you disable purchase (but still show assets on the pixel artist page for promotional purposes). That way you can price assets as they deserve (time to stop understimating pixel works), the pixel artist gets paid what he/she deserves and game developers get a unique set of graphics for their games. I think this will encourage purchases and, of course, incite pixel artist to do their best. Good luck with the project! |
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PixelSnader
Commander ![]() ![]() Not a troll! Joined: 05 June 2014 Online Status: Offline Posts: 3194 |
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Originally posted by albertov
Force pixel artist to use opaque black color (RGBA 0,0,0,1) as background color for all uploads Very stupid idea. A lot of pixel art uses black. For example, your avatar. If we replace all the black in the image by hot pink (common placeholder for transparency), we get this: ![]() Which is completely screwed up. ---------------------------------------------------- I also dont agree on price standardization. Have a look at some of the edits I made for PJ; ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() They all use the (approximate) same amount of pixels and colors in the original (left) and my final edit (rightmost) version. But I'd argue that there is a definite difference in quality. What you're advocating will lead to people inflating their pixel counts and their palettes, making sloppier large pixel art because it will be 'worth' more. This is counter to the whole idea of pixel art. And no. Bigger doesn't take longer than smaller. It can, sure, but it's not definitive. Compare painting a wall with painting the mona lisa. Quality and value can not be accurately calculated by an algorithm. There can be some indicative things (ramp curves, outline consistency, noise/detail/rest) but those would be much more complex algorithms, and they would still be merely rough indicators. Let humans decide value. ---------------------------------------------------- It might be interesting to do something with pricing, though. For example making kits more expensive the more they get bought; this will reward early birds with a lower price, and motivate clients to look at alternative kits (this both levels the playing field for artists a bit, as well as keep games feeling more unique). Or do what's more common and use price skimming, where an unused set is more expensive, to make (initual) uniqueness a higher value, and have prices drop once the artist has recouped his time a bit. ---------------------------------------------------- Making a library with single-use licenses is death to the system. Artists would make art with a chance at a single compensation. There would be a high chance that it never gets sold, and thus all the work would be for naught. It's like working for a client that says they "will judge in the end", and it's one of the biggest pitfalls in freelancing. (yes, I've made this mistake, once.) So you'd have to make the prices higher for it to be worthwhile for artists, but then the prices are so high that no clients will want to buy. Those that have enough funds tend not to go through a store looking for sprites, but hire an artist outright, to make something custom. And lastly, you're cannibalizing your own inventory. As the site gets popular and you make more sales, you also remove more and more sprites. There's a reason why multi-use libraries work well; they're cheap. It might not be worthwhile to buy unique sprites for $1000 for a game, but $200 sounds a lot nicer. You might not get the most original look, but then again, it's only a tree sprite or a grass tileset. If you want to have a more unique look you can always hire the original artist to supplement you with a dash of custom sprites/tiles. On the flipside, for the artist it means they would have a more steady stream of lower income, which is a lot safer, and they could have better insight as to what clients like and create additional packs. ---------------------------------------------------- I do think that standardization is key within a grand library like this, though. Ideally you want clients to be able to buy sprites from several artists and combine them without issue. This means that clients have more choice, you're less dependant on a single artist, artists can specialize, make supplements, and overall be more free. These standardizations should originate from the store and not from the individual pixel artist; though it would be wise to ask a committee for input as a developer might miss some details that spriters stumble in to. For restrictions and standard, I would look at what's commonly out there, and base around that. So you'd have sprites of 16˛, 32˛ and 64˛ pixels. You'd have sprite-palettes of 4, 8, 16 and 32 colors. You'd have several fixed palettes to choose from. You'd have a toggle for outlines, for proportions, for gradients vs cel-shaded, for a specific viewpoint indeed. But very importantly; you would have templates. Even if we say 'isometric' there are two options for tilesets; ![]() Though actually, most games would still use rectangular sprites. And there are some heretics that actually use 3 pixels for the top corner. So, lots of different possibilities, and sprite sets wouldn't work together as nicely as you'd like. And when before I mentioned outlines... how thick? are we talking black outlines? Selout? Colored outlines? There's a lot to be standardized. The trickiest part, when it comes to art, categorizing, standardizing, will likely be to strike a good balance. You'll want to have enough variety in format (perspective, size, color, style) but you also want enough depth per format so that you can combine a full A possible option; build a strong 32˛ platform set and a 32˛ iso set for example. Then later you can expand with 64˛ bosses which would then expand into a full 64˛ set. ---------------------------------------------------- It might also be useful to look work more with preview images. Clients might not understand things such as sel-out. So give them visual representations of styles, sizes, genre. Something like this; ![]() ---------------------------------------------------- I've long been thinking of starting my own site and putting a lot of kits online (though more as a personal store than a multi-artist one), so hit me up if you wanna talk things through and work together in some way. |
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Neela
Seaman ![]() ![]() Joined: 18 July 2014 Online Status: Offline Posts: 3 |
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Hello
Thank you for the feedback so far. We have been putting a lot of thought into the project the last few days. Done a lot of brainstorming. I can see from the feedback, that there are terms we weren't familiar with. And things we hadn't thought of. And that's exactly why we created this thread. We're thinking, we will come up with a database structure that will make the majority happy. And then you will help us name the database attribute options, according to your liking. For example. We might decide that a piece of graphics will have an attribute called "Viewpoint". Then you can tell us that you want a "Top-down" option, and a "Iso-metric #1" and "Iso-metric #2" option. There could be visual descriptions of each viewpoint as well. You might also have a suggestion for a better name than "Viewpoint". We might decide that a piece of graphics will have an attritue called "Outline". Then you can tell us that you want an option called "Black", "Selout", "Coloured" etc. And maybe a "Outline thickness" attribute. LET'S BEGIN =========== First, we need to decide what to call a piece of graphics. For now, let's focus on tiles or sprites. I.e. 16x16 or 32x32 sizes graphics to be used in games. They can contain level-graphics or character graphics. Can we think of a name that is suitable for both? Sprites? Tiles? Other? For now, let's call it a Tile. This entity called Tile will have some attributes. Here are our suggestions for a start: Tile ==== Tags: e.g. nature, character, sky, ground, weapon, food, gui, day, night. Width: e.g. 16 px Height: e.g. 16 px Name or Title: e.g. "Soldier" Searchable keywords: e.g. "Military, uniform, marine, corp" Viewpoint: e.g. top-down, side, iso Outline: e.g. none, black, selout, coloured OutlineSize Artist Palette Some of these attributes will be auto-filled by the system, while others will require manual input from you. Suggestions for tags? And for viewpoints? And for outlines? Suggestions for additional attributes? What about parallax? I.e. using tiles for building background layers? Do we need an attribute or tag to describe that the tile is intended for a background, to indicate that it's not using strong colours? Or is it enough that it is linked to a certain palette that consists of non-strong colours? Other game-graphics, like fonts and coverart and backgrounds, could be added to the site too. But for now, let's take it one step at a time. |
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