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Oxalis
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Quote Oxalis Replybullet Topic: Submission of Gally
    Posted: 10 November 2014 at 1:20am


Hello everybody,
I'm a new pixel joint member (but I looked at it for a while).
I posted this fan art of Gally from GUNNM of Yukito Kishiro in my gallery, but it seems like something is wrong with it because it have been "rejected" (I meen, I think I have to make some revision to it).

So here I'm posting to understand what is the deal. =)

I made this stuff a few years ago, after discovering pixel art and it was my first big and complete pixel art.

Thanks for helping
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jalonso
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Quote jalonso Replybullet Posted: 10 November 2014 at 6:01am
You are new so it was hard to answer some questions.
The potato avatar, which is your other piece and made after this one are both of such different skill levels it made this one seem odd in comparison but the main reason for the revision notice is the lack of control of the BG and other tiny bits like the white area of her chest which are more oekaki than pixelart.
67 colors is a bit high here too, btw.

The pototo avvy is cute :)

Edited by jalonso - 10 November 2014 at 6:12am
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eishiya
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Quote eishiya Replybullet Posted: 10 November 2014 at 7:22am
I'm no mod and have no direct control over what's accepted, but I voted "no" in the public queue for this one because of the lack of control that jalonso described. It looks like scribbly oekaki rather than pixel art. There is the same issue with your newer work ("Icy sleep"), but it's less noticeable due to the limited palette.

You're using pixel-specific tools, but you're not making use of pixel art techniques, in other words. You're losing out on a lot of the things that make pixel art worth doing in the first place, and instead you're letting the (avoidable) weaknesses of working with pixels into your work (e.g. blocky lines because of no automatic AA, a rough, unfinished look because you're not taking control of your pixel clusters and are leaving a lot of single-pixel noise, etc).
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Oxalis
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Quote Oxalis Replybullet Posted: 10 November 2014 at 11:45am

 

Jalonso >>

Thank you for explanation =)

Then, I use a reference (it’s a fanart, isn’t it?) but in fact the reference I use is in the tome 2 of GUNNM in my library. You think I have to scan it, to link it in the description in my gallery?

Plus, Yeah it’s true there are a lot of colours, but then, right now I can’t change that, it’s to old, and even if there are maybe a lot of mistake (that I should agree =D) I first thought that anyway it was an interesting piece. What should I do, should I suppress it from my gallery?

(And sorry for my bad English >_>”)

 

eishiya >>

I’m sorry eishiya but I think your critic is so unfair!

I feel really bad with it, and it’s not because I can’t handle with critics, no it’s not that, because even if I’m new on pixeljoint, I already shared my pixel art with other artist in other forum and they helped me to improve my technique and to discover pixel art so I thought their remarks were constructive, whereas your is not, in my point of view. If the only thing you can do for me is to say that all of my pixel “looks like scribbly oekaki” then don’t bother you by loosing your time for me, thank.

Shall I remember something I already said? Sure this pixel isn’t perfect, and in fact, I told you it was my first big pixel art, few years before. There are a lot of mistakes, I agree (like I didn’t knew at this time that I should take less color, I was just taking every color I wanted in fact… =/) But shall I throw this stuff away just because of that? I though first that it was an interesting piece, and luckily, I’m glad some people like it.

 

I hope the pixeljoint people are not all so rude, otherwise I should get away from here. I’m here to share my passion and improve my skill not to feel like I’m doing everything bad with my “scribbly oekaki” that I should give up.

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eishiya
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Quote eishiya Replybullet Posted: 10 November 2014 at 12:06pm
My apologies, I was not trying to be rude. I did not mean "scribbly oekaki" as an insult of your skill, but rather a descriptor to explain why your work was not accepted to the gallery. "Oekaki" is not in any way inferior to pixel art, it's just a useful comparison because oekaki works often use the same tools as pixel art, but in different ways. By "scribbly" I was referring to your use of many independent lines in that create an impression of noise rather than something cohesive. That's something you can do in drawing and painting, but it does not tend to work well in pixel art.

Your work looks great and I never said it was bad. You're clearly skilled in drawing and with colour. I just pointed out that the techniques you're using aren't very pixel art-like, and that's why your work might not be suitable for the PJ gallery. I recommend posting your work to the WIP forum here before submitting it to the PJ gallery, so that you can get pointers on your work and technique.


Edit: By the way, it's enough to mention that you used reference. It's good to provide a link if one is available, but if you'd have to scan something, then it's fine to not link to it. The important thing is that it's clear that you used reference.


Edited by eishiya - 10 November 2014 at 12:14pm
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Oxalis
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Quote Oxalis Replybullet Posted: 10 November 2014 at 12:25pm
Ok, then I understand better what you first said. But even then I'm sad to note that the rules to admit a pixelart are that strict! And also, I continue to think that it's not fair.

So then, let me ask something : All I have to do right now is to suppress it from my gallery ? (and everything I made actually, because you said it was the same thing for "Icy sleep" so I think it won't be admit either then...!? You, and the other, must have say "NO"). Is it that way? I'm very sad to learn it but as I feel it at first, there's nothing I already made that will be admit here, just because I was not registered here so that I didn't post it on this topic to have your agreement and because I'm not a PERFECT pixelartist. Too bad


Edited by Oxalis - 10 November 2014 at 12:30pm
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eishiya
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Quote eishiya Replybullet Posted: 10 November 2014 at 12:42pm
Your art doesn't have to be perfect to be in the main PJ galleries. Mine certainly isn't!  I'm a relative beginner too :] It just has to be pixel art. Just like a sculpture gallery wouldn't accept an oil painting, PJ doesn't accept works that aren't pixel art, no matter how good they are. Unfortunately, the distinction between oekaki/aliased digital art and pixel art is much more subtle than the one between sculpture and painting. I highly recommend reading (or re-reading) this tutorial, as it does a good job of explaining the difference and explaining certain key pixel art techniques. I think it should make it easier to see the logic behind why your submission was not approved despite being so good.
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jalonso
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Quote jalonso Replybullet Posted: 10 November 2014 at 1:05pm
Originally posted by Oxalis

Ok, then I understand better what you first said. But even then I'm sad to note that the rules to admit a pixelart are that strict! And also, I continue to think that it's not fair.


What did you understand that was said?
The rules in Pixeljoint are not strict at all and its very, very simple.
Pure pixel placement that shows control on the pixel level.
This is very fair because we judge and evaluate nothing else but pixelart skills that are commonly agreed to by all.

Originally posted by Oxalis

So then, let me ask something : All I have to do right now is to suppress it from my gallery ? (and everything I made actually, because you said it was the same thing for "Icy sleep" so I think it won't be admit either then...!? You, and the other, must have say "NO"). Is it that way? I'm very sad to learn it but as I feel it at first, there's nothing I already made that will be admit here, just because I was not registered here so that I didn't post it on this topic to have your agreement and because I'm not a PERFECT pixelartist. Too bad


If its not pixelart then its not added to the gallery.
Those who join Pixeljoint today get the same respect and attention as those who joined on the first day.
As it relates to actual art, its very fair around here and something we police more than many other sites with more liberal interpretations of pixelart.

If you wish click the 'sticky link' in my signature below and look over cure's pixelart thread.

All questions and topics are open for discussion.
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Oxalis
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Quote Oxalis Replybullet Posted: 10 November 2014 at 2:20pm
Ok then, you should just had say "Your stuff is not pixel art to our point of view, you have to supress it from your gallery" instead of beating around the bush.

You should say the rules aren't strict but I won't change my mind, they are! But in fact it's not a bad thing, it's just different.
I supposed their are different categories of pixelart.
Maybe in this one "Gally", in some part it doesn't suit strictly the rules of pixel art that you talk about, but in other I think it does. In my point of view it was pixel art, in your it's not.
So it will be difficult for me at first to understand your refusal.
So anyway, I understand the rules and want to follow them, so I will post new stuff and I will try to fit to your point of view of pixel art because I have a lot of things to learn from here and it can be nice I think.

(But I hope that for Icy sleep, you won't say it's oekaki and no pixel art again...)

Thank you for these clarifications, I'll try to submit new things in the WIP section and you will tell me what's wrong so that I could finally post it in my gallery! (Hope this day will come true one day... )


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Quote StoneStephenT Replybullet Posted: 10 November 2014 at 3:38pm
Before I begin here, I want to stress (as a mere member of this site, not as an administrator) that the refusal of your image into the gallery is in no way a comment on its quality. I think it looks great, to be honest.

But the PJ admins have strict rules about what gets in or gets rejected based on the ideas of what constitutes pixel art. You may not agree with this, but for them (and for a lot of us around here), those ideas include the notion that you should have complete pixel control of your works.

I'll show you what I mean with three recent (at the time of this post) additions to the gallery:


http://www.pixeljoint.com/pixelart/90200.htm


http://www.pixeljoint.com/pixelart/90214.htm


http://www.pixeljoint.com/pixelart/90188.htm

Even the simplest image of the three (the first one) has an immaculate control of pixels. The artists for these pieces know where each pixel needs to go to make their image look the way it does—and more importantly, they know why each pixel needs to be in a specific place.

Oekaki-esque images, for as high-quality as they can get, don't bring that level of pixel control to the table. There just isn't an effort made in controlling individual pixels with oekaki art. Artists who pull off the "oekaki look" and make it on here (admittedly few and far between, for as long as I've been browsing the site) do so because they demonstrate a control over pixels that typical oekaki artists don't have.

I look at your image and I see actual artistic skill on display. But here's the question that separates oekaki from pixel art: do you know the purpose of each individual pixel in that image?
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Oxalis
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Quote Oxalis Replybullet Posted: 12 November 2014 at 3:40am
Thank you for your help. Yes I must admit that in some part of gally, it's not that precise but I in contrary, her face for exemple, I made every pixel on purpose. So there are some part that look more oekaki and other more pixel art. I guess it's a mixture. Anyway the answer of why is it this way is that when it's a big piece, it's totally different of when it's a little piece of 30 pixel! ha, ha. If we enlarge some little piece, they won'tt alway look really elaborate too. Anyway, thank you =)
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jalonso
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Quote jalonso Replybullet Posted: 12 November 2014 at 5:49am
Originally posted by Oxalis

...I guess it's a mixture...


That's why it was sent back. PJ is for pure pixelart only.

---
I honestly don't understand why you are questioning anything about pixelart when you submitted this.


Was this chicken made before or after the Gally piece?
Was this chicken made before or after your potato avatar?


Edited by jalonso - 12 November 2014 at 5:54am
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Oxalis
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Quote Oxalis Replybullet Posted: 13 November 2014 at 1:35pm
Well, I think it's totally different because of the size of the piece. Anyway, as I told you before, I didn't knew the rules were like this, I didn't thought that what I made wouldn't be called pixel art here, because I learn it in a more flexible way. But don't try to understand me ha! ha! It's ok now because I understand you =)
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eishiya
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Quote eishiya Replybullet Posted: 13 November 2014 at 2:23pm
Large illustration-like pixel art pieces, though relatively uncommon, are not unknown. There's nothing forcing you to treat your larger pieces differently from your smaller ones in terms of technique (pixel art versus non-pixel art), it's entirely a personal artistic choice you're making. I apologise if you already knew that, but your post made it sound like you thought that your larger pieces had to use non-PA techniques. The difference in size doesn't have to mean a difference in technique.
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jalonso
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Quote jalonso Replybullet Posted: 13 November 2014 at 2:36pm
Same level of everything by Elk illustrates this
small

big
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Oxalis
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Quote Oxalis Replybullet Posted: 15 November 2014 at 10:07am
eishiya>> "your post made it sound like you thought that your larger pieces had to use non-PA techniques" I never said that, so it doesn't mean that.
I just said that the more you piece is big, the more it's difficult to make everything detailed, so this could be the reason why, because of the relative less abondance of detail, it could look more unworked, unfinished, like you said it did for Gally. It's not alway the case but it could be when you are a beginner.

jalonso >> Ha! Ha! Thank you Jalonso, sorry if I laughed but if I knew how to do such a thing, there woudn't be any problem! As I said to eishyia, I tried to make a big piece (because my eyes are bigger then my stomach) + I was relatively new in pixel art so I didn't have the level to do such a thing like you just show me => the result? I made Gally, with all its imperfections.


Now thank, but I think this discussion come to its end. I will ask you for advices with other stuff. (◡‿⊙)



Edited by Oxalis - 15 November 2014 at 10:13am
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