Pixel Joint Forum: Job or Scam ?!

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   Hi, Im not a very frequent visitor of pixel forums anymore. 

I feel though like some topics return to me again and again over time and I think it would be good to adress them for once and ever.

The one I want to explain here is some experiences, facts and myths of freelance work from the freelancer point of view. Also most offten scam 'systems' and possibly also how to detect them.

Im writing this basicaly because:

1. I feel people can use some guides or opinions on this topic, since this forum has extensive job sectio and huge part of the community is unexperienced with contract work etc. (imho)

2. I basicaly already wrote all in quite generic usable form into this tread and I dont want to repeat myself in every Job tread that will seem suspicious to me. Maybe here it will be more reachable for everyone interested.

Also sorry for my bad english, and straight-from-top-of-my-head approach.

Feel free to ask mod\admin for rights and edit my posts in this topic so they are better understandable.

Copy of my post from "Valencia" tread follows:

Edited by Riva - 19 September 2007 at 3:40am

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Riva Midshipman Joined: 21 April 2021 Online Status: Offline Posts: 47	Topic: Job or Scam ?! - my little insights into the biz Posted: 19 September 2007 at 3:39am
	Hi, Im not a very frequent visitor of pixel forums anymore. I feel though like some topics return to me again and again over time and I think it would be good to adress them for once and ever. The one I want to explain here is some experiences, facts and myths of freelance work from the freelancer point of view. Also most offten scam 'systems' and possibly also how to detect them. Im writing this basicaly because: 1. I feel people can use some guides or opinions on this topic, since this forum has extensive job sectio and huge part of the community is unexperienced with contract work etc. (imho) 2. I basicaly already wrote all in quite generic usable form into this tread and I dont want to repeat myself in every Job tread that will seem suspicious to me. Maybe here it will be more reachable for everyone interested. Also sorry for my bad english, and straight-from-top-of-my-head approach. Feel free to ask mod\admin for rights and edit my posts in this topic so they are better understandable. Copy of my post from "Valencia" tread follows: Edited by Riva - 19 September 2007 at 3:40am
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Riva Midshipman Joined: 21 April 2021 Online Status: Offline Posts: 47	Posted: 19 September 2007 at 3:39am
	- I was contacted by leader of the project to fill position of graphic artist in theyr team - I asked whether: -- the project will be commercial and -- if the graphic work will be payd - the 1st answer was that the project is noncommercial and artist will not be payd, and his only 'payment' will be his name in games credits - during our conversation with pr.leader I was told that in fact the project WILL ganerate money and that money will be used by the guy for funding his other (supposedly also commercial) project So here is where the controversy starts imho. Since my opinion is clear: If I work on commercial project, I have to be payd for it. No excuses. If it is otherwise, it smells of scam, and it usually is (one form of it or another). - We spoke more and the guy tryed to persuade me, that his project is noncommercial, although he previously agreed he personaly will get money from it, and he will decide what to do with them. - also I was told that artists working on this project, although they get no money, will profit from having this project in theyr portfolio afterward. Thus, supposedly, having a better chance getting a good job. This is another great myth (often used by scamers on unexperienced potential contractors). 1. If you are real newbie, then your work will probably be low quality. >> The project you will work on will be low quality too. >> Puttign low quality project, made by 'noname' 'company', into your portfolio will imo do you no, or little, good. (I know, I am employer working in this business.) 2. Once you are good enough to work on commercial title (meaning good looking title = marketable title), you are also good enough to be payd for it! 3. There is enough companies in the business who will employ you even though your skills are not yet profi, and still pay you for your work (or your education under theyr wings). (Again, I know because my own company is offering this.) At the end I have to say, that I dont want to influence anybody to not join this project. There surely are people who would like to work on some project, even for free or under this conditions, and will join. Theres nothing wrong with it of course. I only want to make sure, that you are avare of all the facts and possibilities. Also I want to apologize to the person in lead, in the case his intentions really are innocent and his only goal is to create as good as possible shareware projects. The problem is, that once there are money in the project, it cant be solved on "I swear its all clean" (".. and I will not use the money for my own profit") basis.
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jalonso Admiral Joined: 29 November 2022 Online Status: Offline Posts: 13537	Posted: 19 September 2007 at 6:34am
	Oh, so true! On the subject of 'brand name' companies and 'good titles'. For all thinking/hoping/praying to go pro. If your work is good and your artistic sensibilities are top quality, a website showcasing yourself will attract employers and project developers like flies. They do in fact know good work when they see it. Unfortunately is not common to get respect. • Get it in writing. • Send all proofs watermarked till the money is IN your pocket (at least half up front, quote double ) • pixel like its for yourself, its the only defense when/if things go wrong. • Ignore the sales pitch, its always way overblown • Don't quit your day job In the meantime join the weekly challenge (Shameless PJ plug)
	PJs FAQ <•> Sticky Reads
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Riva Midshipman Joined: 21 April 2021 Online Status: Offline Posts: 47	Posted: 19 September 2007 at 12:49pm
	dogmeat - Lets not dig into it any more. This tread isnt about the particular project anyway. If you want to comment on Valencia thing, go to theyr tread please. Anyway - I explained it enough and I also have couple of other points that tell me something isnt right about the project. On the other hand I may be all wrong. The guy ma be great game developer. Honest, skilled etc. and they will make great game(s). The thing is that it doesnt really happen a lot. And once there are money in the project, things tend to end up weird even more offten.
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