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Author | Message |
Vegeta897
Midshipman ![]() ![]() Joined: 06 March 2019 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 16 |
![]() Posted: 07 October 2007 at 9:09pm |
Hi, I recently submitted a large pixel art work here:
http://www.pixeljoint.com/pixelart/25315.htm And I was given the message that it couldn't be approved because the small image didn't match the detail image. Currently the small image is a scaled down version of the image. Is this not allowed? According the the FAQ it says I can use a thumbnail. And I did. What's the problem here? Edited by Vegeta897 - 07 October 2007 at 9:11pm |
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http://www.isotown.net
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jalonso
Admiral ![]() ![]() Joined: 29 November 2022 Online Status: Offline Posts: 13537 |
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We call a thumbnail a section of the pixel at 1X no bigger than 100x100. Think of it as an ad for the full piece. Many write preview or click or something. So many pieces here are less than 100x100 that the traditional form of thumbnail doesn't always work. Just pick a section and make that the icon.
ps: In PJ, sex, dragons and zombehs sell ;) |
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Larwick
Commander ![]() ![]() Joined: 18 July 2024 Online Status: Offline Posts: 4015 |
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Your piece also has 1301 individual colours. Upon closer inspection alot of it seems like it could have been done in other ways than pixelling. Sorry man, but please make sure everything you submit is done in the proper pixelly manner, otherwise we just can't accept it into our gallery. Hope you understand.
PS. Although i haven't checked for sure, it could be that your piece is JPG'd, even though it's a png atm. Edited by Larwick - 08 October 2007 at 3:08am |
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Vegeta897
Midshipman ![]() ![]() Joined: 06 March 2019 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 16 |
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Understood, I can use a 100x100 crop.
My piece does not use an unnecessary amount of colors. What do you mean, "could have been done in other ways"? How could you even say that to a pixel art? I chose to make an isometric pixel art in MS Paint, and that's what I did. Every pixel is hand placed and a color chosen by me. I employ my own texturing and my own blurring of harsh lines. And what do you mean, "done in proper pixelly manner"? I'd like you to explain what you mean. The piece is not JPG'd. All the smoothness you see are colors hand selected by me and placed by me. It's all MS Paint, remember. I understand that something like this may be different to you folk. Please explain the things I'm confused with. Thanks for the help! Edited by Vegeta897 - 08 October 2007 at 5:18am |
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http://www.isotown.net
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Monkey 'o Doom
Commander ![]() ![]() Joined: 24 September 2005 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2994 |
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The preview image has 164 colors according to the automated color counters in both IrfanView and mtPaint. Generally that's more than a piece of that size would require; I could post a version with a largely reduced color count and no loss of visible detail if you'd like. I can't see the full image itself as it "needs revision" but one source of massive color counts is, as Larwick said, conversion, even temporarily, to a lossy filetype like JPEG. Also could you upload the full-view image to an image host and show it to us so we can look for what went wrong with the color count? Right now it shows a lot of features of handpixelling like the 1px thickness lines but some of it looks as if it was blurred a small amount or resized a tiny tiny amount in photoshop or something. Some image hosts also do lossy resizing for thumbnails or to .BMP images; could this have happened? |
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Vegeta897
Midshipman ![]() ![]() Joined: 06 March 2019 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 16 |
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How many times do I have to say this? All the blurring you see are hand placed pixels by me. I never once used photoshop or any other image editing program besides ms paint besides to save as a png with an optimized palette. I'm not a noob, I wouldn't make mistakes like that. You can view the full thing at my DeviantArt: http://vegeta897.deviantart.com/art/City-17-Square-Revisited-64469886 It was never converted to a lossy file type. It has lots of colors because there ARE lots of colors. There are lots of hand picked and placed colors for texturing and smoothing harsh lines. It's also a large piece. I don't understand why this is such a huge fuss. Edited by Vegeta897 - 08 October 2007 at 4:16pm |
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http://www.isotown.net
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Raziaar
Seaman ![]() Joined: 08 October 2007 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1 |
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Hello. I know this poster, Vegeta897. I don't really know what the problem is here, but I am confused when people say his work isn't done in a proper 'pixelly format'.
I have been watching his work evolve over the years, and every time he creates a pixel art piece, as he has done for his pixel art city isotown, he does it entirely in mspaint using only the tools available to him in there. I've even suggested he take the easy way out and do some of his work in photoshop or other image editing software, but he always refuses. I never could understand his dedication to making everything pixel by pixel. Seems too tedious to me the way he does it. EDIT: Just in case anybody is wondering why I just showed up and posted here, well I just happened to be talking to him at the time. I'm just one of his many pixel art fans. His work is not only appreciated on his own site, but also over at the halflife2.net forums where he originally submitted this entry for a Half-Life 2 picture contest. Edited by Raziaar - 08 October 2007 at 4:25pm |
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jalonso
Admiral ![]() ![]() Joined: 29 November 2022 Online Status: Offline Posts: 13537 |
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We have a 256 color limit since that's the gif/png8 limit. I don't see a problem with your pixel at all other than the previously mentioned icon. Notice that the message from the staff only questioned this.
We do admire/respect color unification and color conservation. Just to be clear Photoshop creates pixelart with the same fidelity of MSPaint. Every site/place has their own unique take on things and their own rules. PixelJoint is no different and while not sadistic we take pixelart on the technical level very seriously. Like the saying says...When in Rome... |
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Larwick
Commander ![]() ![]() Joined: 18 July 2024 Online Status: Offline Posts: 4015 |
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Please don't make it out to be that we're trying to accuse you of anything, we just don't understand why you'd need so many colours for such a piece. Perhaps that could be something you can work on for your next piece, colour conservation. We have alot of problems with people submitting pieces with such large colour counts, so you can understand why we're so interested, right?
How do you pixel? Do you choose whatever colours you need as you go or do you make a fixed palette as you go? Knowing this will help us muchly. So yeah, keep cool and perhaps work on something new as you wait for our decision. Sorry for the trouble. ~ |
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Vegeta897
Midshipman ![]() ![]() Joined: 06 March 2019 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 16 |
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I use a set of colors for everything that should be uniformly colored. There are a LOT of different things in this picture, so it stands to reason that there are lots of colors. Each different texture and object in this piece has a good amount of color selection. There is no redundancy in the amount of colors, I will always go back and repick the same color when I'm supposed to be coloring something that is the same color (if you understood that, heh) I honestly don't see how I could have used less colors without it simply looking worse. Why have a limit? I simply don't understand.
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http://www.isotown.net
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jalonso
Admiral ![]() ![]() Joined: 29 November 2022 Online Status: Offline Posts: 13537 |
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Please don't make a battle out of the simplest thing. Your pixel is fine and can be added to the gallery once you update/fix the icon.
You are allowed up to 256 and you are way under that. Case closed its in. I have made bigger isometric pixels than this, like billboard size dude. I have used way more than you in one its not a big deal at all. We are simply letting you know since we have been here for a while and you are new that color limits get better results than high color count. Going over 100 will simply mean your pixel will probably just fade into obscurity with 1 comment if you're lucky and that comment WILL be about the high color count. We are being helpful, honestly. That's the way we roll ;) *PM me when you have fixed the issue for which your pixel was returned and I will add it. |
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Vegeta897
Midshipman ![]() ![]() Joined: 06 March 2019 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 16 |
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I've had it fixed since yesterday. Is there still something wrong? What exactly needs to be fixed. It's a 100x100 thumb of a 1x scale portion of the image that says "please view full" on it.
I don't take kindly to comments such as "could have been done with other methods than pixel art" which insinuate that I'm a liar. I also don't appreciate when I say both in the description and in the thread that the image was not blurred in any automated way, and that I did it all myself, and you treat me like someone who doesn't know his way out of a paper bag and ask me if I didn't put it through lossy compression or accidentally resize it. Edited by Vegeta897 - 08 October 2007 at 5:51pm |
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http://www.isotown.net
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greenraven
Commander ![]() ![]() Joined: 08 September 2016 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2598 |
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Do more with less. It's what all the cool kids do these days.
![]() 256 is MORE THAN enough. It's all about techniques dude, it's all about techniques. Think of it this way Vegeta897, you can either build a rocket of out steel and just have another rocket. Or you can build a rocket out of coke cans and be on every newspaper in the world. You do want to be on every newspaper in the world, don't you? ![]() |
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jalonso
Admiral ![]() ![]() Joined: 29 November 2022 Online Status: Offline Posts: 13537 |
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Well why didn't you say so : /
We can't remember every pixel and where they are. You didn't mention fixing/correcting the icon and just keep wondering what the hold-up is. *For you and anyone else reading. If you do not PM, email or let us know we can't possibly keep up with things. |
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Vegeta897
Midshipman ![]() ![]() Joined: 06 March 2019 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 16 |
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I made a large pixel art composition with hand made anti aliasing and texturing in MS Paint. Blurring apparantly so good that some people here thought it was the computer doing it. That's good enough for me, thanks.
If you took a closer look you'd see that I really dont use an unecessary amount of colors. Edit: Sorry, I assumed you would have looked at it since last night. My bad! Edited by Vegeta897 - 08 October 2007 at 5:54pm |
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http://www.isotown.net
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Monkey 'o Doom
Commander ![]() ![]() Joined: 24 September 2005 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2994 |
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This is the preview image, reduced to 63 colors from 164. That's a 62% decrease. Now compare the two. Tell me, at first glance, whether they look that different.
![]() ![]() In case you, like me, can't tell them apart, the original is on the right.
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jalonso
Admiral ![]() ![]() Joined: 29 November 2022 Online Status: Offline Posts: 13537 |
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w00t another issue is resolved!!!
*color limits ftw Wait a minute the icon is 164 colors, no way o.O issue unresolved??? Edited by jalonso - 08 October 2007 at 6:00pm |
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Larwick
Commander ![]() ![]() Joined: 18 July 2024 Online Status: Offline Posts: 4015 |
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Vegeta, there is no reason to find my comment unnecessary. I made a calculated guess that areas could have been made using perhaps a spray or auto-aa because of the massive colour count and there should be no harm in asking. You have to respect that it's my job to check these things.
And you did use an unnecessary amount of colours. In my personal opinion, and the opinion of many of the other members here i no doubt. Anyway, now we've gotten this out of the way i'm sure you'll be accepted kindly into our community ey wot. Have a nice day. ~ |
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Vegeta897
Midshipman ![]() ![]() Joined: 06 March 2019 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 16 |
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You're taking all of my beautiful details and flushing them down the toilet :/
Isn't pixel art supposed to be about attention to detail? I'd rather you delete this and ban me before I submit something that gets rid of my hard work. Perhaps coming here was a mistake. Can any of you gents lead me to a place that accepts pixel art like this? And like I said, again. If you look at the AA'd areas you'll find that only 2 or 3 colors are actually used to do the blurring. I used as many colors as I needed for it to look good. Unnecessary coloring would be using colors that are indistinguishable from eachother, which I did not do. Edited by Vegeta897 - 08 October 2007 at 6:07pm |
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http://www.isotown.net
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jalonso
Admiral ![]() ![]() Joined: 29 November 2022 Online Status: Offline Posts: 13537 |
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Tis Monday Night Football and the game is good, be back after midnight.
*runs* |
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Larwick
Commander ![]() ![]() Joined: 18 July 2024 Online Status: Offline Posts: 4015 |
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Deviantart.
Yeah, pixel art is about attention to detail. Detail that should be seen on first glance, detail that shouldn't need you to squint or zoom to see. Detail that shouldn't need the same amount of individual colours as the same piece in another digital media. Vegeta, this website is about recieving and giving other members critisism on their work so they can improve. We're critisising you, please take it in a more positive manner. If you want to leave, i won't stop you, but i think it'd be a better idea to stay and listen to what we have to say. We know what we're talking about. |
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Vegeta897
Midshipman ![]() ![]() Joined: 06 March 2019 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 16 |
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I'd say you were critisizing me so that I could fit to your standards, not necessarily "improve". This is the style I've chosen for this picture, and I'm not about to let someone who "knows what they're talking about" tell me what I'm doing.
"Yeah, pixel art is about attention to detail. Detail that should be seen on first glance, detail that shouldn't need you to squint or zoom to see" This is utter nonsense. There's a reason we have higher resolutions these days. Are you saying my picture would have been acceptable if we were still in the days of 640x480, where you WOULD notice my detail? I wasn't aware that what good art was changed because of a technological advancement. This brings me back to why you have a color limit when we live in a modern age world. I have no doubt that I could make a piece that used minimal colors. It would be a great challenge indeed, and would definitely teach me more about pixel art and color. But that's not the challenge I decided to go for on this piece, and I'm not going to let you try and take my challenge of hand-done AA and texturing and convert it into your own standards. Thank you. |
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http://www.isotown.net
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Larwick
Commander ![]() ![]() Joined: 18 July 2024 Online Status: Offline Posts: 4015 |
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Ok, i'll accept you don't want to lower your colour count now. If it's your 'style' and you really don't want to change, so be it. Sorry for pushing you in any way.
If your image was created for viewing at 2x, then what you see there would be it's detail. Anything that needs to be zoomed farther i would consider too subtle. I imagined your image was to be viewed at 1x but it appears i am wrong, sorry. I personally don't think it should be viewed at 2x. Everyone should begin learning art by learning the fundementals. The fundementals of this type of art media, pixel-art, includes very strongly colour conservation. Once you've learned how to conserve your colours, you can break the rules but you will have realised not to over-do it, you will have far more control over your colours and how to use them each to their fullest potential. In the end you will have used less than if you didn't fully understand colour conservation. I think 1301 colours on your piece is too many, and many of them are wasted. I've learnt you wish to keep this 'style' so i'm going to hush about it now. I never meant to cause such a fuss. I'm quite tired sooo i think i may have made myself sound a lil silly there somewhere but you could probs work it all out. Old man jal can take it from here. :) PS. Aleiav has created an interesting post that you might wanna read (tbh i haven't read it all yet but i'm sure it's great lol). Link. |
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Aleiav
Commander ![]() ![]() Joined: 08 April 2016 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2380 |
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Originally posted by Vegeta897 I'd say you were critisizing me so that I could fit to your standards, not necessarily "improve". This is the style I've chosen for this picture, and I'm not about to let someone who "knows what they're talking about" tell me what I'm doing. I'm a relativist and I appreciate your different perspective, but it doesn't change the fact that PJ has requirements. And you don't have to submit it here at all. This is utter nonsense. There's a reason we have higher resolutions these days. Are you saying my picture would have been acceptable if we were still in the days of 640x480, where you WOULD notice my detail? I wasn't aware that what good art was changed because of a technological advancement. That's just it. Pixel art wasn't created "these days". In the past, it was more difficult it make detailed work in smaller pieces. Which leads me to your next comment. This brings me back to why you have a color limit when we live in a modern age world. I have no doubt that I could make a piece that used minimal colors. It would be a great challenge indeed, and would definitely teach me more about pixel art and color. But that's not the challenge I decided to go for on this piece, and I'm not going to let you try and take my challenge of hand-done AA and texturing and convert it into your own standards. Thank you. Well, at PJ we WANT to challenge you. Our standards are high and we aim to make better pixel artists. If that's not something you want, head to deviantART or any dolling forum. |
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Vegeta897
Midshipman ![]() ![]() Joined: 06 March 2019 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 16 |
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I apologize for getting heated. I have no place to be complaining about your guy's taste. Basically what happened is I didn't know about the kind of art that goes here and so by the time I realised it I was so far in that it frustrated me that you wouldn't take my art as it was. I don't really like how you think that color conservation is the "best" way to challenge yourself when making pixel art. I view making pixel art as working with pixels. Making something that looks good and smooth is a challenge on its own. I thank you for understanding my view. You should maybe have a look at my other art on my DA (some of it is old) or my comic Isotown.net (see #162 to #165 for special non-iso) which doesn't use the advanced AA techniques (for the most part) before you assume I don't know fundementals. I may be wrong, though.Edited by Vegeta897 - 08 October 2007 at 7:12pm |
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http://www.isotown.net
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jalonso
Admiral ![]() ![]() Joined: 29 November 2022 Online Status: Offline Posts: 13537 |
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My two cents on the last few comments. Please understand that you have joined PixelJoint, PixelJoint did not join you. It is your responsibility to abide and follow the rules set by PixelJoint. It is possible that you did not read the rules and regulations or failed to get the 'ways of PJ' before joining. PixelJoint is not inflexible and set in stone. The topic you debate about color usage has been discussed many, many times and the standard is set. We are of the opinion that 256 colors is the maximum because regardless of technological advances, we consider it the norm.
My Football Game is a runaway so I downloaded you artwork and inspected it closer than even your fan Razziar ever would. My final assesment is that you artwork is not pixelart. Now I totally see why you consider it such but THIS artwork, not all your artwork is NPA, period. This does not mean we don't want you to join in and participate and that other artwork you have or may make in the future will be denied or anything held against you. I am speaking for the PJ staff for this artwork ONLY. It can be frustrating and even disappointing to have anything rejected. All here being artists we can relate. We are speaking 'technical specifications' only. Your scene is visually nice and as a piece of 'hybrid pixelart' is just fine...elsewhere. Its not really needed since its all been mentioned, but since I spent the time to be as thorough as possible (during Monday Night Football, no less) I will post anyways. Nothing else I can really add to the matter. ![]() |
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Vegeta897
Midshipman ![]() ![]() Joined: 06 March 2019 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 16 |
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Something is not right. The 74 colors on the sign seems wayyyy wrong. May I ask if this is an analysis of the image I posted here or the one on my DA?And there is no way the brown window has 15 colors. I think perhaps something DID go wrong. Those random pixels highlighted in yellow are very odd too. I'm going to look in to this. Also, what makes you say I used the airbrush in those parts? It's really not that hard at all to place random pixels with the pencil tool. Edit: I just did a color count on the entire sign, and it said 19 colors. Edit2: Okay, I'm really confused now. I did a color count on the sign cropped directly from the image I submitted, and I'm getting the same results. What's going on here? Edit3: All right, I give up. I have no idea what went wrong with the image you analyzed, but regardless of that I'm not going to reduce the color count. Nice meeting you folks, I'll take your advice into consideration. Edited by Vegeta897 - 08 October 2007 at 9:49pm |
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jalonso
Admiral ![]() ![]() Joined: 29 November 2022 Online Status: Offline Posts: 13537 |
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I said 'possible' use not positive use : /
Too bad you feel you must leave. We were just coming to realization that you have some errors in the file and we were about to find out that you in fact did not use so many colors. Oh well ??!! |
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Vegeta897
Midshipman ![]() ![]() Joined: 06 March 2019 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 16 |
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I don't think the count would have been under 256 anyway.
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http://www.isotown.net
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Aleiav
Commander ![]() ![]() Joined: 08 April 2016 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2380 |
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Originally posted by jalonso Please understand that you have joined PixelJoint, PixelJoint did not join you. Just have to say... best. quote. ever. to the OP: Colour conservation really isn't very challenging. Why not try it and save it under a different name as an experiment and then compare after? What do you have to lose? |
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Vegeta897
Midshipman ![]() ![]() Joined: 06 March 2019 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 16 |
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TBH I don't really have the time. I'm a very busy person with both my job and other hobbies/projects.
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http://www.isotown.net
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Larwick
Commander ![]() ![]() Joined: 18 July 2024 Online Status: Offline Posts: 4015 |
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Erm okay then. Well, maybe we'll see you some time in the future. Btw i checked out your site, was very imaginative, i quite liked it.
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