Basic Palette choice..
which one do you think would be better?

I want to create something on a big canvas :/
I don't mind if I need to add more colors to make it more detailed..
my goal is to complete this with a nice outcome :D

I'm not really digging the hair. I dont know maybe try something with a little more depth. Try something like cloud strife's hair? Also I think you have some anatomy issues, the chest area doesn't seem quite right. I'm not expert so i'll let someone else explain better.

Very well then. Your anatomy is pretty much nonexistent, both in the face and in the body, and the face isn't anywhere near symmetrical either.

I think you're not thinking shapes, instead thinking lines and areas.

use reference images to correct your anatomy.
you've cut off the body in a bit of an odd way/place, be careful of that when creating a bust.
also pose is pretty boring and the guy's center of gravity is off (leaning backwards)

I was working on it before I saw your post.. I decided to make his pose less boring and did this.. but Ill work on the sketches right now..



Also here are the sketches
GOSH SO HORRIBLE.. looks like a 5 yr old sketch X_X
http://i44.tinypic.com/33bnurd.jpg


Edited by RollerKingdom - 12 May 2010 at 12:52pm

Hey, not bad - was it fun? (I had fun!)

I think you'll notice right away that of your four guys, the one on the lower left has an arm that is too short (his right). The bicep area needs a distinctive volume of space below the shoulder as much as the shoulder needs its own volume. And his left forearm is too long, with too small a hand - but otherwise, you did really well!

Were you able to recognise the muscle groups as you drew them? I'm happy to see that you depicted the obliques (one on each side of the abdomen, just above the waistline - briefs' waistbands snug up under them usually) and got the navel in the correct area.

Did you visualise proportions as you sketched the shapes and outlined the volumes? Did you picture the image or a "balls & rods" version of the image on the paper, and draw around it? If you can mentally project a skeleton onto the page as you draw, then it becomes a lot easier to say things like "oh, that arm is way too long" or "I didn't give enough length to the torso" and so on.

And most of all, did studying the references give you any clues on ways to improve the anatomy of your own image?

I think it would be really great if you could post your thoughts on the sketches you drew - with your own "as-harsh-as-you-can-make-it" c+c (e.g. which one was the hardest to do?) - so that we can both be in the same mindset when we discuss further details.

(p.s. how would you feel about drawing a red "balls & rods" skeleton (circles for shoulders & elbows, a line for the spine, etc.) on top of each of the reference images to practise seeing anatomy proportions? You could then draw similar skeletons on top of your sketches and compare them - there's nothing like comparing two images to learn how they tick!)

i think u should remove those body-paintings before u work on anatomy, theyre kinda distracting i guess, also itll be much easier to do them afterwards when u got the volumes right...

I'd worry more about the general relative forms of the parts of the body than muscle definition. you seem to be defining them using line, but shape and form are of more importance at this stage.

Thanks for the refs pragz.. Ill be looking forward to apply somethin from them into this..

@Thereisnocure: Im not too sure if im doing it right but I tried workin a bit more around what you suggested..


Looks better than before?
By the way as I scroll up and down and I can see the difference and body improvement already since the first post :D that gives me the jumps inside my head


More update

Worked on his left arm.. and added fingers like grabbing his hair

a bit more of the shading and etc



Edited by RollerKingdom - 12 May 2010 at 8:54pm

Thanks for this great critic NinjaC, I understand where you guys are coming from by suggesting me to not use the green suit/body paint however I feel like it helps me give more idea of what to do with it on..

now to the points you indicated..
I've fixed both arms and made them longer (it indeed needed that.. it looks much more proportional now..)
Also changed his eye expression a bit to look a bit like "fierce"
Also worked a bit with the nose to make it look more centered..
Also removed his fingers as I tried it on the mirror and it really is awkward and hard to see it..



Edited by RollerKingdom - 13 May 2010 at 12:00pm

*sigh.. seems like I should stop doing anatomy stuff and go for random abstract creatures :/ As I think each update is getting better.. more and more stuff needs to be revised before moving on... 

the traps are grossly underemphasized, the shoulder melts into the muscles of the arm (these muscles being biceps which are far too large and triceps which are absent. The pecs  run straight into the arms, and don't flow with the surrounding muscles. Study the references more closely, see that the muscles all interact with the muscles around them in certain ways.
also abs seem a bit high, and the hand behind the head comes off as a cop out for not drawing hands.

I love how this is turning.
Please keep going. It has gone through so much already. It is looking great.

I would love to help, but Im not very skilled, so I can see very little.
I find there is something wrong with his right shoulder. The shade makes it look as if it was separated from the body.
Also, the clavicle bone is almost connecting its back rather than arm.
He needs a deltoid, as well.

As for more subjective tips, I would have at least some of his hair flow backward and give him some extra musculature.
The hair is to give the sense of speed, while the body for strength. This is entirely based on opinion, though, it wouldn't "improve" the artwork. I was just thinking along the lines of what his powers were. ^^


Edited by Leath - 13 May 2010 at 6:52pm

I don't have the time right now, but I'll show you what I mean by sunday/monday.

Mmm, for the deltoid, I dont think you need to make it so obvious. I was more fixing along the line of the outline. For instance, his upper arm is like an oval, but it should look like an "8" shape with subtle curves.
That shadow is too strong, and not correctly placed. The upper arm muscle would probably cast shadow vertically within their own divisions, not separating the muscle groups. :)

The clavicle is still going to the back, rather than arm :p

Finally, when you make changes, you dont need to add all the details, anti aliasis yet if it is not gonna be final. It is better and faster to make rough lines, color stains, and guides to help visually until you're satisfied. ^_^

Keep it up, looking awesome.

Okay, so I decided not to be lazy, and went ahead and made an edit. I don't know how you are going to feel about it, artistically, but just bear in mind that its purpose is to make your character's anatomy match real life as much as possible, for which I used all the references above quite a bit.

Here's an animation:


1. A deltoid. Notice the triangular heart shape? That's because it has two projections at the top where it anchors in the front by the clavicle and in the back by the shoulder blade. A third projection at the bottom anchors it to the arm bone. It was named for the Greek letter "delta" which looks like a triangle.
2. A bicep. Notice it is elongated like an oval. That's because it has an anchor point at either end (or two "heads"). One on the arm bone at the bottom, and one near the chest muscles at the top. You'll notice "bi" for "two" here for that reason.
3. A tricep. This is a very important muscle bulge for the profile of an arm for a buff guy. The "tri"-ceps has three "heads" of which we are seeing the third, or closest one here.
4. This makes an all-important groove, which is what separates the shoulder (deltoid area) from the arm area, to create that "figure eight" look. You should always give enough volume to both areas.
5. One way to get familiar with proportion rules is to see where things line up. This line I drew shows how the line between shoulder and arm flows right into the line under the chest muscle (which I had to increase to give enough volume - the proportion rule here is that the pectorals are at least as tall as the head). That is why I kept wanting you to make the arm longer - to achieve this flow, and match this rule of thumb.
6. Here is another look at one of the projections (or "heads") of the deltoid, showing the shape it has under the skin where we can't see it.
7. The trapezius. This is actually a very large back muscle, shaped like a kite (a trapezoid, hence the name) of which the top anchors to the neck, which is why we can see some of it here even though it is a back muscle. It is very important to give this a diagonal line.
8. A clavicle. This bone attaches below the pit of the throat, and the other end is at the top of the shoulder. When not looking straight on (your picture is slightly from above) you will not see the clavicle disappear over the shoulder, but instead see a bony knob (as outlined in 9.) plus the trapezius muscle. This bony knob (you can feel it at the top of your own shoulder) is made where the end of the clavicle meets a long projection (like a bony finger) from the shoulder blade (or "scapula") making a kind of "V" as I've shown in 10.
9. A projection of the scapula. The dotted line shows the top edge of the shoulder blade, which of course is behind and not visible.
10. This shows a top-down view of the clavicle meeting the projection from the scapula, making the bony knob that is surrounded by the dotted line at the top of the shoulder.
11. The curve of the jaw should aim for the bottom of the ear.
12. This shows the area of the nose and lip that I think would be lit rather than in shadow.
13. As for point 5., this shows another rule of thumb for remembering where to draw the lines of muscles. Here we see that the edge of the abdominals lines up right under the nipple.
14. I had to lengthen his left arm to match the new length of his right arm, and here we can see how the pectoral has a projection that anchors to the arm bone up by the top of the bicep.
15. Here is the other bicep, with a top projecting head that "inserts" itself near the shoulder.
16. The other deltoid, with its front projection seen by the clavicle.
17. The proper location of the hand (and length of the forearm) with the thumb shown just for reference. The rule of "thumb" here is that if the elbow is bent all the way, the palm ought to rest against the shoulder.

And the final frame of the example GIF is just a quick edit I did to show all the changes together, and the paint/suit back on (not sure if it's the right shape, though!).

Hope it helps and isn't too overwhelming!

Hey, Roller, great job!

I'm really impressed with how well it came out.
I also want to thank you because I had a really good time, and I look forward to your next project.

Thanks!
JD