Pixel Joint Forum: Pixelart Design Pricing

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Theoden
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Joined: 16 December 2022
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Posts: 115

Topic: Pixelart Design Pricing
Posted: 26 August 2010 at 6:30am

Hi,
I wish to ask a question about pricing pixelart for flash games.

I picked up a flash platform game project and I am going to design the character and background.
But I have no idea how much money I should demand. This is my first professional work and I need some advice from people who
work on platform games and earn money.

I am working on a game similar to this: http://armorgames.com/play/5599/amil

Any advice will be greatly appreciated, thanks.

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jazcks
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Joined: 26 May 2006
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Posts: 20

Posted: 26 August 2010 at 6:34am

time is money

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Theoden
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Joined: 16 December 2022
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 115

Posted: 26 August 2010 at 6:41am

Originally posted by jazcks

time is money

Right =) How much should I ask per week?

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jazcks
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Posts: 20

Posted: 26 August 2010 at 7:02am

well, maybe you should take a look at this Fool article: http://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/AdamSaltsman/20090724/2571/Pixel_Art_Freelance_Best_Practices__Guidelines.php

Edited by jazcks - 26 August 2010 at 7:05am

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Theoden
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Joined: 16 December 2022
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Posts: 115

Posted: 26 August 2010 at 7:42am

Originally posted by jazcks

well, maybe you should take a look at this Fool article: http://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/AdamSaltsman/20090724/2571/Pixel_Art_Freelance_Best_Practices__Guidelines.php

Thank you very much. That article really helped me =)

Edited by Theoden - 26 August 2010 at 7:42am

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PixelSnader
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Not a troll!

Joined: 05 June 2014
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Posts: 3194

Posted: 27 August 2010 at 5:41am

We can't really answer your question, because you've offered very little info. Answer these questions and we can give you an estimate of where you are in the market:

EXPERIENCE
-how long have you been pixeling?
-got some sample pixel art?
-got some non-professional/unpaid/hobby projects you've worked on like (flash) games, or webdesign or advertisement?
-got experience in other artsy areas? (painting, pencils, vector art, 3d, etc) and samples of those

COMMITMENT
-is this professional, I.E. pays for food and bills, or paid as a sidejob?
-how many hours per week are you going to spend on it?
-do you have other obligations/commitments like a main job or going to school?

LEGAL ISSUES YOU WANT TO CHECK OUT
-do you have a contract? no? get one.
-what happens when you get ill/break an arm/etc? (does pay stop, or are you insured, or does the company offer to pay you a couple of weeks themselves)
-who gets copyright and what does the art get used for? (do you allow them to use your game art for marketing purposes, are you allowed to put images in your portfolio afterwards?)

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Theoden
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Joined: 16 December 2022
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Posts: 115

Posted: 28 August 2010 at 1:27am

Thank you for the detailed reply snader.

-I have been pixeling for a few years now.

-Yes, I have lots of sample pixel art on my online gallery.

-No, I haven't worked on a hobby/unpaid project in pixelart yet. But I have worked on personal 3D/short animation projects.

-Yes I paint, do pencil drawing, model and animate in 3D, compose and record my own music and do some coding in C.

-It's paid as a side job but I will be working fully most of the time.

-I will be working around 40 hours per week maybe more.

-I am working with my father and brother on electronics and coding. And I am going to university. But I can say that for 1-2 months my main work will be this pixeling project.

-I don't have a contract. That bothers me too. I live in Turkey and my client is in Canada and I really don't know about international contracts and procedures about this subject.

Edited by Theoden - 28 August 2010 at 1:41am

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Atreides
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Joined: 23 March 2009
Location: China
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Posts: 5

Posted: 28 August 2010 at 3:39am

Contracts internationally aren't that hard. Unless you're dealing with a big sum of money that would make it worthwhile to involve a lawyer with international expertise , here's what I would do.
Write everything you understand about the job in a letter.

Use bullet points. Use plain english. Exactly what you will do, how much you will receive, when you will deliver, payment method, rights and anything else. Send it to them. Ask them if that is what they understand. Back and forth until you both agree.

Then write at the top of the letter: This is an agreement between ( you) and (them)

at the the end of the letter write:

Agreed this day (date) between

signature
(you + address and contact details)

signature
(them +address and contact details)

leave a space for the signatures. Sign it and fax it to them. Have them sign it and fax it to you. Both [parties should have a copy signed by everyone involved.

Without involving a lawyer that should be enough. Everyone understands exactly what is involved and what they have to do.

How much you get paid? Decide how much you want to get paid per hour. This will be a little in the beginning and more as you become more experienced and get a better client list. Multiply the hours it will take to do the job by how much you get paid and that is your fee. If you're feeling confident, add in some hours for admin and other related tasks (I don't because I don't have a big enough client list but many do) That's your price.

This is how I do it. You seem like a genuine person so if you want some more personal help, you can find my contact details at my website:

http://turnbullportfolio.com

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PixelSnader
Commander

Not a troll!

Joined: 05 June 2014
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3194

Posted: 28 August 2010 at 6:50am

Just doing some rough math here, based on several sources, but it might help you along a bit. This is based on a fulltime job, so your 40 hours a week would.

Average yearly salary for U.S. game industry, at entry level (which is where you'd be) 33-40 thousand a year
Average U.S. salary is about $46.500 a year (nominal GDP per capita), whereas Turkey comes in around $8.500 a year.

33.000/(46.500/8.500)= $6032,26
45.000/(46.500/8.500)= $7311,83
which comes down to about 500~600 a month, or about 120~140 a week.

If those numbers sound fair to you (not ridiculously high or low), you can offer your client this, and show them the calculation.

Of course you could also recalculate to an hourly wage, and calculate an estimate for the entire job, like Atreides mentioned.

Beware: this is just a rough idea of how I would calculate a salary and in no way I guaranty that my estimate is correct.

Sources:
U.S. 3D artist salaries U.S. and Turkey salaries

As for sample images and stuff, I meant: could you post some here. So I/we can gauge your skill level.

A contract doesn't have to be a very complicated mess like you generally see in EULA's and big company contracts like mobile phones etc. Like Atreides said, just write down the deal you and your customers have worked out, and have both parties sign.

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Theoden
Rear Admiral

Joined: 16 December 2022
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 115

Posted: 29 August 2010 at 2:31am

Originally posted by Atreides

Contracts internationally aren't that hard. Unless you're dealing with a big sum of money that would make it worthwhile to involve a lawyer with international expertise , here's what I would do.
Write everything you understand about the job in a letter.

Use bullet points. Use plain english. Exactly what you will do, how much you will receive, when you will deliver, payment method, rights and anything else. Send it to them. Ask them if that is what they understand. Back and forth until you both agree.

Then write at the top of the letter: This is an agreement between ( you) and (them)

at the the end of the letter write:

Agreed this day (date) between

signature
(you + address and contact details)

signature
(them +address and contact details)

leave a space for the signatures. Sign it and fax it to them. Have them sign it and fax it to you. Both [parties should have a copy signed by everyone involved.

Without involving a lawyer that should be enough. Everyone understands exactly what is involved and what they have to do.

How much you get paid? Decide how much you want to get paid per hour. This will be a little in the beginning and more as you become more experienced and get a better client list. Multiply the hours it will take to do the job by how much you get paid and that is your fee. If you're feeling confident, add in some hours for admin and other related tasks (I don't because I don't have a big enough client list but many do) That's your price.

This is how I do it. You seem like a genuine person so if you want some more personal help, you can find my contact details at my website:

http://turnbullportfolio.com

Thank you for all the details =)

I was planning to calculate the fee by hour too. I am not sure but I was thinking that I should ask around 10$ per hour. Sometimes it sounds just a bit too much sometimes normal to me I really don't know..

I asked my client about the price and we are still discussing about it since he's in Canada we have a large local time difference and can not talk frequently.

I'll speak about the contract with my client.

Again, thank you very much.

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Theoden
Rear Admiral

Joined: 16 December 2022
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 115

Posted: 29 August 2010 at 2:49am

Originally posted by snader

Just doing some rough math here, based on several sources, but it might help you along a bit. This is based on a fulltime job, so your 40 hours a week would.

Average yearly salary for U.S. game industry, at entry level (which is where you'd be) 33-40 thousand a year
Average U.S. salary is about $46.500 a year (nominal GDP per capita), whereas Turkey comes in around $8.500 a year.

33.000/(46.500/8.500)= $6032,26
45.000/(46.500/8.500)= $7311,83
which comes down to about 500~600 a month, or about 120~140 a week.

If those numbers sound fair to you (not ridiculously high or low), you can offer your client this, and show them the calculation.

Of course you could also recalculate to an hourly wage, and calculate an estimate for the entire job, like Atreides mentioned.

Beware: this is just a rough idea of how I would calculate a salary and in no way I guaranty that my estimate is correct.

Sources:
U.S. 3D artist salaries U.S. and Turkey salaries

As for sample images and stuff, I meant: could you post some here. So I/we can gauge your skill level.

A contract doesn't have to be a very complicated mess like you generally see in EULA's and big company contracts like mobile phones etc. Like Atreides said, just write down the deal you and your customers have worked out, and have both parties sign.

I think I will ask about around $10 per hour. If my client doesn't accept it I will bring the price down form there.

Thank you for the research and calculations. However $500-600 a month is a bit low for me. I could at least ask for about $800 for a month if $10 per hour fails =)

And about my sample works, Here's one: http://www.deviantart.com/download/171075138/Outpost_by_TheodenN.png

Another one: http://www.deviantart.com/download/162363090/Sapiens_by_TheodenN.png

This one is actually not pixelart, its 3D but I tried to capture a feel of pixelart so maybe you would be interested to see it too, here it is: http://www.deviantart.com/download/173091140/Pixel_Town_by_TheodenN.png

Thanks!

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Author	Message
Theoden Rear Admiral Joined: 16 December 2022 Online Status: Offline Posts: 115	Topic: Pixelart Design Pricing Posted: 26 August 2010 at 6:30am
	Hi, I wish to ask a question about pricing pixelart for flash games. I picked up a flash platform game project and I am going to design the character and background. But I have no idea how much money I should demand. This is my first professional work and I need some advice from people who work on platform games and earn money. I am working on a game similar to this: http://armorgames.com/play/5599/amil Any advice will be greatly appreciated, thanks.
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jazcks Seaman Joined: 26 May 2006 Online Status: Offline Posts: 20	Posted: 26 August 2010 at 6:34am
	time is money
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Theoden Rear Admiral Joined: 16 December 2022 Online Status: Offline Posts: 115	Posted: 26 August 2010 at 6:41am
	*Originally posted by jazcks* time is money Right =) How much should I ask per week?
	IP Logged

jazcks Seaman Joined: 26 May 2006 Online Status: Offline Posts: 20	Posted: 26 August 2010 at 7:02am
	well, maybe you should take a look at this Fool article: http://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/AdamSaltsman/20090724/2571/Pixel_Art_Freelance_Best_Practices__Guidelines.php Edited by jazcks - 26 August 2010 at 7:05am
	IP Logged

Theoden Rear Admiral Joined: 16 December 2022 Online Status: Offline Posts: 115	Posted: 26 August 2010 at 7:42am
	*Originally posted by jazcks* well, maybe you should take a look at this Fool article: http://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/AdamSaltsman/20090724/2571/Pixel_Art_Freelance_Best_Practices__Guidelines.php Thank you very much. That article really helped me =) Edited by Theoden - 26 August 2010 at 7:42am
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PixelSnader Commander Not a troll! Joined: 05 June 2014 Online Status: Offline Posts: 3194	Posted: 27 August 2010 at 5:41am
	We can't really answer your question, because you've offered very little info. Answer these questions and we can give you an estimate of where you are in the market: EXPERIENCE -how long have you been pixeling? -got some sample pixel art? -got some non-professional/unpaid/hobby projects you've worked on like (flash) games, or webdesign or advertisement? -got experience in other artsy areas? (painting, pencils, vector art, 3d, etc) and samples of those COMMITMENT -is this professional, I.E. pays for food and bills, or paid as a sidejob? -how many hours per week are you going to spend on it? -do you have other obligations/commitments like a main job or going to school? LEGAL ISSUES YOU WANT TO CHECK OUT -do you have a contract? no? get one. -what happens when you get ill/break an arm/etc? (does pay stop, or are you insured, or does the company offer to pay you a couple of weeks themselves) -who gets copyright and what does the art get used for? (do you allow them to use your game art for marketing purposes, are you allowed to put images in your portfolio afterwards?)
	▄▄█ ▄▄█ ▄█▄ ▄█▄
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Theoden Rear Admiral Joined: 16 December 2022 Online Status: Offline Posts: 115	Posted: 28 August 2010 at 1:27am
	Thank you for the detailed reply snader. -I have been pixeling for a few years now. -Yes, I have lots of sample pixel art on my online gallery. -No, I haven't worked on a hobby/unpaid project in pixelart yet. But I have worked on personal 3D/short animation projects. -Yes I paint, do pencil drawing, model and animate in 3D, compose and record my own music and do some coding in C. -It's paid as a side job but I will be working fully most of the time. -I will be working around 40 hours per week maybe more. -I am working with my father and brother on electronics and coding. And I am going to university. But I can say that for 1-2 months my main work will be this pixeling project. -I don't have a contract. That bothers me too. I live in Turkey and my client is in Canada and I really don't know about international contracts and procedures about this subject. Edited by Theoden - 28 August 2010 at 1:41am
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Atreides Seaman Joined: 23 March 2009 Location: China Online Status: Offline Posts: 5	Posted: 28 August 2010 at 3:39am
	Contracts internationally aren't that hard. Unless you're dealing with a big sum of money that would make it worthwhile to involve a lawyer with international expertise , here's what I would do. Write everything you understand about the job in a letter. Use bullet points. Use plain english. Exactly what you will do, how much you will receive, when you will deliver, payment method, rights and anything else. Send it to them. Ask them if that is what they understand. Back and forth until you both agree. Then write at the top of the letter: This is an agreement between ( you) and (them) at the the end of the letter write: Agreed this day (date) between signature (you + address and contact details) signature (them +address and contact details) leave a space for the signatures. Sign it and fax it to them. Have them sign it and fax it to you. Both [parties should have a copy signed by everyone involved. Without involving a lawyer that should be enough. Everyone understands exactly what is involved and what they have to do. How much you get paid? Decide how much you want to get paid per hour. This will be a little in the beginning and more as you become more experienced and get a better client list. Multiply the hours it will take to do the job by how much you get paid and that is your fee. If you're feeling confident, add in some hours for admin and other related tasks (I don't because I don't have a big enough client list but many do) That's your price. This is how I do it. You seem like a genuine person so if you want some more personal help, you can find my contact details at my website: http://turnbullportfolio.com
	IP Logged

PixelSnader Commander Not a troll! Joined: 05 June 2014 Online Status: Offline Posts: 3194	Posted: 28 August 2010 at 6:50am
	Just doing some rough math here, based on several sources, but it might help you along a bit. This is based on a fulltime job, so your 40 hours a week would. Average yearly salary for U.S. game industry, at entry level (which is where you'd be) 33-40 thousand a year Average U.S. salary is about $46.500 a year (nominal GDP per capita), whereas Turkey comes in around $8.500 a year. 33.000/(46.500/8.500)= $6032,26 45.000/(46.500/8.500)= $7311,83 which comes down to about 500~600 a month, or about 120~140 a week. If those numbers sound fair to you (not ridiculously high or low), you can offer your client this, and show them the calculation. Of course you could also recalculate to an hourly wage, and calculate an estimate for the entire job, like Atreides mentioned. Beware: this is just a rough idea of how I would calculate a salary and in no way I guaranty that my estimate is correct. Sources: U.S. 3D artist salaries U.S. and Turkey salaries As for sample images and stuff, I meant: could you post some here. So I/we can gauge your skill level. A contract doesn't have to be a very complicated mess like you generally see in EULA's and big company contracts like mobile phones etc. Like Atreides said, just write down the deal you and your customers have worked out, and have both parties sign.
	▄▄█ ▄▄█ ▄█▄ ▄█▄
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Theoden Rear Admiral Joined: 16 December 2022 Online Status: Offline Posts: 115	Posted: 29 August 2010 at 2:31am
	*Originally posted by Atreides* Contracts internationally aren't that hard. Unless you're dealing with a big sum of money that would make it worthwhile to involve a lawyer with international expertise , here's what I would do. Write everything you understand about the job in a letter. Use bullet points. Use plain english. Exactly what you will do, how much you will receive, when you will deliver, payment method, rights and anything else. Send it to them. Ask them if that is what they understand. Back and forth until you both agree. Then write at the top of the letter: This is an agreement between ( you) and (them) at the the end of the letter write: Agreed this day (date) between signature (you + address and contact details) signature (them +address and contact details) leave a space for the signatures. Sign it and fax it to them. Have them sign it and fax it to you. Both [parties should have a copy signed by everyone involved. Without involving a lawyer that should be enough. Everyone understands exactly what is involved and what they have to do. How much you get paid? Decide how much you want to get paid per hour. This will be a little in the beginning and more as you become more experienced and get a better client list. Multiply the hours it will take to do the job by how much you get paid and that is your fee. If you're feeling confident, add in some hours for admin and other related tasks (I don't because I don't have a big enough client list but many do) That's your price. This is how I do it. You seem like a genuine person so if you want some more personal help, you can find my contact details at my website: http://turnbullportfolio.com Thank you for all the details =) I was planning to calculate the fee by hour too. I am not sure but I was thinking that I should ask around 10$ per hour. Sometimes it sounds just a bit too much sometimes normal to me I really don't know.. I asked my client about the price and we are still discussing about it since he's in Canada we have a large local time difference and can not talk frequently. I'll speak about the contract with my client. Again, thank you very much.
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Theoden Rear Admiral Joined: 16 December 2022 Online Status: Offline Posts: 115	Posted: 29 August 2010 at 2:49am
	*Originally posted by snader* Just doing some rough math here, based on several sources, but it might help you along a bit. This is based on a fulltime job, so your 40 hours a week would. Average yearly salary for U.S. game industry, at entry level (which is where you'd be) 33-40 thousand a year Average U.S. salary is about $46.500 a year (nominal GDP per capita), whereas Turkey comes in around $8.500 a year. 33.000/(46.500/8.500)= $6032,26 45.000/(46.500/8.500)= $7311,83 which comes down to about 500~600 a month, or about 120~140 a week. If those numbers sound fair to you (not ridiculously high or low), you can offer your client this, and show them the calculation. Of course you could also recalculate to an hourly wage, and calculate an estimate for the entire job, like Atreides mentioned. Beware: this is just a rough idea of how I would calculate a salary and in no way I guaranty that my estimate is correct. Sources: U.S. 3D artist salaries U.S. and Turkey salaries As for sample images and stuff, I meant: could you post some here. So I/we can gauge your skill level. A contract doesn't have to be a very complicated mess like you generally see in EULA's and big company contracts like mobile phones etc. Like Atreides said, just write down the deal you and your customers have worked out, and have both parties sign. I think I will ask about around $10 per hour. If my client doesn't accept it I will bring the price down form there. Thank you for the research and calculations. However $500-600 a month is a bit low for me. I could at least ask for about $800 for a month if $10 per hour fails =) And about my sample works, Here's one: http://www.deviantart.com/download/171075138/Outpost_by_TheodenN.png Another one: http://www.deviantart.com/download/162363090/Sapiens_by_TheodenN.png This one is actually not pixelart, its 3D but I tried to capture a feel of pixelart so maybe you would be interested to see it too, here it is: http://www.deviantart.com/download/173091140/Pixel_Town_by_TheodenN.png Thanks!
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