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swonqi
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Quote swonqi Replybullet Topic: Platform hack'n'slash WIP thread
    Posted: 06 November 2014 at 5:58am
Hi, I'm currently working on a desert tileset for a platformer game. I would love to hear some feedback on my work so far. Are the colours good, how should I improve the background, are there some kind of tiles I should add to the set, etc..? Any feedback is welcomed really. :))

Here's a mock-up of the tileset with a background.


Link for a 2x scale version, which will propably be used for the game:
http://files.1337upload.net/2xSCALEversion-d00229.png


Edited by Mattie - 11 November 2014 at 1:23pm
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BathMaster_2000
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Quote BathMaster_2000 Replybullet Posted: 06 November 2014 at 7:25am
Not saying this as a professional, but I would play this game. Nice job!
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swonqi
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Quote swonqi Replybullet Posted: 06 November 2014 at 1:46pm
Originally posted by BathMaster_2000

Not saying this as a professional, but I would play this game. Nice job!


Thanks for the comment. Do you think there is any way I could make it better though? :)
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RebeaLeion
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Quote RebeaLeion Replybullet Posted: 06 November 2014 at 2:15pm
wow, mountains're so clear ! I know it's not contribute but I had to say it. Well I assume everything is background even platforms. If platforms're in the front I would make them a little darker.

Edited by RebeaLeion - 06 November 2014 at 2:17pm
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Quote DiodonHystrix Replybullet Posted: 06 November 2014 at 2:18pm
Hey Mattie. I'm generally a newbie. I like almost everything in this picture. Yet there is one thing missing I guess. You are trying to get depth but it's not done yet.


Maybe adding some shadows to tiles will solve the problem.



As I said, I may be wrong, so please keep that in mind and I am sorry in advance for misleading you.
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heyguy
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Quote heyguy Replybullet Posted: 06 November 2014 at 2:36pm
Hey Mattie, cool image. I'm a newbie like Diodon but there are some suggestions I have for you. Diodon has pointed out strangeness where the floor and wall meet. Maybe you can create another role for that area.

I'd also like to suggest maybe creating some slopes, ramps, inclines, etc.

RebeaLelon also mentions making the forward platforms a little darker which I agree with. It looks to me you've got your light and medium tones but not your dark tones.
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Quote jalonso Replybullet Posted: 06 November 2014 at 2:54pm
The sky is nice.
The sand dune is great.
The player platform is good (once those corners are fixed).

The big problem I see here is that these 3 layers do not belong with each other and fail to create a cohesive world.
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Quote swonqi Replybullet Posted: 09 November 2014 at 2:47am
Thanks to everyone for the feedback, really helpful! :)

I fixed the corners and changed the colours of the tiles. I think the whole scene has now more smoother and warmer feeling than before. What do you think, I still need some feedback on this. ;)

 
I will start working on the characters to this game project. Is it ok if I turn this thread to WIP thread for the whole game?
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Quote RebeaLeion Replybullet Posted: 09 November 2014 at 2:56am
I am having it in WIP, *with considering there're constantly changes. So its WIP.

I think it looks good, especially dunes, excellent. I am still not sure about first platform. Maybe it could use some pattern or highlights.
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revolver
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Quote revolver Replybullet Posted: 09 November 2014 at 3:43am
If i were you id lighten the foreground, and darken the background!
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swonqi
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Quote swonqi Replybullet Posted: 09 November 2014 at 4:29am
Originally posted by revolver

If i were you id lighten the foreground, and darken the background!


I darkened the background, I'm quite happy with the result. :)


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Quote jalonso Replybullet Posted: 09 November 2014 at 6:45am
Originally posted by Mattie

Is it ok if I turn this thread to WIP thread for the whole game?


Of course its cool. There is not thread page limit.
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PixelSnader
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Quote PixelSnader Replybullet Posted: 09 November 2014 at 7:08am
Personally, I think having everything super bright would be excusable, even good in this case. Because it's in a motherf**king desert. If the screen's so bright you gotta squint your eyes, that kind of emulates how you would act in the environment.

I do think, however, that the color palette is somewhat monchromatic. Using color tints to give off a certain feeling is definitely one good tool of the trade, but I feel here you could do with a bit of contrast. Perhaps faking a blue sky by using greyish colors there and relying on simultaneous contrast from the bright oranges could work.

Mind you, it's not bad as it is, but it might be worth experimenting a bit in these early stages.

In terms of terrain, you have two different kinds of sand material. There's the silky soft dunes that are ever changing. And crumbly dry rock soil. The two don't generally appear in the same location, so this creates an internal conflict. Figure out a way to unite the two.

Obviously there's always going to be some discord because a platform game requires a certain type of illogical terrain to be interesting to play on. But we gotta try and minimize that feeling. For example try looking at something like Australia's Mungo Park Desert:



It has both rocks and sand, but in the opposite relation of how you have them. The sand isn't all that soft, yet still it's only ground cover instead of high piles. The real silhouettes and terrain formation are made by rocky soil. Not boulders, but earth layers of compressed sand etc; definitely not smooth sand dunes.

Similarly, the Arizona desert:


Which also has large rock formations, and dirt/sand piles up against those rocks rather than forming the terrain on its own.

You can also note the difference the color palette in the images makes, in particular the sky. The pale pink skyfall in the Mungo desert makes it feel a lot more warm and pressing than the Arizona desert. The less strong shadows/contrast also make the heat feel a bit more diffused.

Also something of note, the geometry of the landscape. Like mentioned before there's always going to be a discord between platforming terrain and realistic geomorphology, but we can try to minimize it. In this case you can clearly see the difference between dirt soil in the Mungo desert, which is eroded in a way that looks similar to a river or melted ice, and the rocks of the Arizona desert, which stand tall far after the dirt around it has been swept away. Then, you'll notice that the rocks are almost vertical, which would make for good platforming, with a (relatively) small pile of dirt around the base.

I made two (well, one and a half, really) mockups with a pinch of reference and some of the ideas above:



The striations are just added in to give a bit of detail, but I'm not 100% happy with how the playable surface seems to be just rocks and no sand. Anyway take these how you will. Both should be seen at full screen for maximum effect, of course.


More interesting deserts, Wadi Rum:


Ha-Minsara / Makhtesh Ramon:


Pinnacles Desert:


Sahara desert in Algeria:


So there's a lot of reference out there you can use to create an interesting desert landscape.

Your pixelwork itself isn't bad, technically. The ground tiles would work well for a savannah (due to it being rough and speckled), but that environment doesn't jive with the background and the terrain formations. The small plants and grass look fine too. The big tree I like a bit less, not entirely sure why, and the rock pillars could use some actual detail instead of embossed X-es

Of course you could just change the dune background to something like an African savannah, and then the background would tie in well with the foreground. But it seems like you're still in the early stages of artwork, so why not make it work even better?

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swonqi
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Quote swonqi Replybullet Posted: 10 November 2014 at 9:21am
@PixelSnader,
thanks so much for your message - it will be really helpful. I will revisit the tiles and do something for the background later. As I mentioned earlier I started working on the characters for this game and this is what I came up with:



2X version:



The red faction is a orc/goblin clan, the green is something northern/viking'ish and the blue faction are from desert.  I think the problem I have with these is that the colours are kind of boring. Any suggestions what I should do to the colours/any details I should add? My goal is to make each character as unique as possible. And btw, I haven't made weapons for them yet.


thanks, M



Edited by Mattie - 10 November 2014 at 9:24am
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Quote revolver Replybullet Posted: 10 November 2014 at 12:43pm
ha similar style to what im currently working on
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swonqi
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Quote swonqi Replybullet Posted: 11 November 2014 at 8:45am
I went for even simplier style so they will be easier to animate... Is there any way I could improve these before I start animating them? And the characters with high heels are supposed to be female, do they look like it?


For comparison, here's the previous version:



edit. I made weapons for the characters and put them on the level:


The problem I have right now is that the orc guys on left look quite lame compared to the others and I didn't find a way to make them look better. :7


Edited by Mattie - 11 November 2014 at 1:26pm
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Quote DwindlingDwarf Replybullet Posted: 11 November 2014 at 3:25pm
Try making the orcs look bigger in size. Maybe they will look more like brutes ;D
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Quote PixelSnader Replybullet Posted: 11 November 2014 at 6:39pm
Your sprites are very dark and low-contrast in comparison to the surroundings. Also they seem to be lacking highlights. I suggest (if you have photoshop/gimp) putting them all on a single layer and using the curves tool to tweak the overall palette a bit. And then maybe bump the saturation.

Also, I just came across these in the gallery:




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Quote DatMuffinMan Replybullet Posted: 11 November 2014 at 8:22pm
this may also be of use to you - http://wayofthepixel.net/index.php?topic=17394.0
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swonqi
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Quote swonqi Replybullet Posted: 12 November 2014 at 8:12am
Originally posted by PixelSnader

Your sprites are very dark and low-contrast in comparison to the surroundings. Also they seem to be lacking highlights. I suggest (if you have photoshop/gimp) putting them all on a single layer and using the curves tool to tweak the overall palette a bit. And then maybe bump the saturation.


Made them lighter, how do they look now? Personally I'm quite happy with these now. What did you mean with highlights, adding lighter color? I want to keep them simple because I got loads of animations to make.

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Quote swonqi Replybullet Posted: 12 November 2014 at 11:38pm
Sorry for double. I made some highlights on the characters and this is how they look now:


I guess I'll start animating today. :)

On the level:

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swonqi
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Quote swonqi Replybullet Posted: 19 November 2014 at 1:46am
So sorry about the triple post..

But yeah, I made some animations. In addition to the running animation I have idle and jump animations so far. Next I'm gonna make the basic attack animations. What do you guys think about the run animations?


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Quote eishiya Replybullet Posted: 19 November 2014 at 6:00am
Because the torsos aren't turning at all, they look more like light jogging than running. That's not necessarily a bad thing since it keeps the characters' most recognizable features static readable (their design variety is all in their chests and heads), but if you want their running to feel fast, you'll need to get more motion into the torsos.

I also think that regardless of the running speed and style, it'd look better to get a little more motion in their head/chest area in the form of bouncing hair/headwear. In the case of the green-caped characters especially, the upper part of the cave should get pushed and pulled by the arm motion instead of being static.

Also - are the midriffs and high heels necessary? They ruin their otherwise practical-looking designs, in my opinion.
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Quote swonqi Replybullet Posted: 19 November 2014 at 6:51am
Originally posted by eishiya

Because the torsos aren't turning at all, they look more like light jogging than running. That's not necessarily a bad thing since it keeps the characters' most recognizable features static readable (their design variety is all in their chests and heads), but if you want their running to feel fast, you'll need to get more motion into the torsos.

I also think that regardless of the running speed and style, it'd look better to get a little more motion in their head/chest area in the form of bouncing hair/headwear. In the case of the green-caped characters especially, the upper part of the cave should get pushed and pulled by the arm motion instead of being static.

Also - are the midriffs and high heels necessary? They ruin their otherwise practical-looking designs, in my opinion.


Thank you very much for the critique - I really appreciate it! :)

Jogging or running, I don't know what to call it but it looks good enough on the game so I'm happy with the animation. As for the head/headwear movement, I tried to do it and it looked really stupid in my opinion. I will make the hair flow in the wind though.

And the midriffs are not necessary but I will keep the high heels, they aren't even that notable in the game because of the grass. I made the midriffs to make the 2 female characters to look more like women (it was hard to make female characters using the same template I used for men characters). I was going to remove them but never remembered - thanks for reminding me. ;)

Here's the archer lady without the midriff, (looks much better now imo :). I also changed the bow to the left hand so it will be easier to make her bow drawing animation later.

 
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Quote eishiya Replybullet Posted: 19 November 2014 at 7:24am
Looks better without the midriff, though the high heels still look silly (and if they're not usually visible anyway - why not just give them sensible footwear so there's less for whiners like me to complain about? xP).

Is it important that the female characters have "feminine" traits like that? If so, why? Will it make a difference to players? I'd imagine players care only about what a character can do, not their gender, and each character's abilities/class/affiliation/etc should be visible from non-gender traits, such as the weapons they're carrying and the armour they're wearing. You've done quite well in showing that already.
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Quote swonqi Replybullet Posted: 19 November 2014 at 9:27am
Originally posted by eishiya

Looks better without the midriff, though the high heels still look silly (and if they're not usually visible anyway - why not just give them sensible footwear so there's less for whiners like me to complain about? xP).

Is it important that the female characters have "feminine" traits like that? If so, why? Will it make a difference to players? I'd imagine players care only about what a character can do, not their gender, and each character's abilities/class/affiliation/etc should be visible from non-gender traits, such as the weapons they're carrying and the armour they're wearing. You've done quite well in showing that already.


Actually the characters will have many different abilities that makes them unique as you kind of mentioned. I think the boots are part of the armor just like any other armor piece and personally I like their look. I was actually trying to make them look something like this but shorter: http://www.empyx.com/images/2012/07/10/76/newest-women-boots-2012_1.jpg Not some silly high heels that some pornstars would wear... I guess I'm going to rework those boots to look less high heely .

And yes I think it is quite important for the player to know what kind of character she/he is playing - I think the look of the character is quite big part of that.


Edited by Mattie - 19 November 2014 at 9:28am
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