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Zizka
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Quote Zizka Replybullet Topic: Dice n' stuff
    Posted: 15 July 2017 at 7:16am
Heya, not getting much feedback on pixelation so trying my luck here.

I'm designing the dice for my game. The idea is for the dice to roll really quickly and stop when the player presses a button.

The die result appear on a scroll, like so:


Did 7 different versions. Here are my comments:

1: Too big, unreadable due to the colors.
2: Classic take, less character but instantly readable. Too big though.
3: Still too big.
4: Too small, pip don't look as good without AA.
5: real numbers on dice really have no charm, so no.
6: corners too sharp for a die.
7: what I got at the moment.

So it'd look like something like this:


So any comments on palette, shape considering the scroll display area and so on is what I'm looking for.

Thanks!
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eishiya
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Quote eishiya Replybullet Posted: 15 July 2017 at 7:40am
Doesn't letting the player choose when to stop the die go against the concept of dice?

I like your current die. I don't think they need a lot of "character" since "classic" seems to be the theme of the game, there's no other visual theme tying things together.
I think the bottom corners still look sharp though, the AA colour is too dark. Use the same one as at the top, perhaps?
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Zizka
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Quote Zizka Replybullet Posted: 15 July 2017 at 7:44am
Doesn't letting the player choose when to stop the die go against the concept of dice?

Well it's moving so fast that it's still random. But anyways, I'll give the option to press a button to go straight to dice result for those who don't want to wait.

Ok, thanks, I'll try with the AA.
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Quote eishiya Replybullet Posted: 15 July 2017 at 9:12am
My personal preference is for when the dice start fast and slow down as they get closer to the result. Adds some drama. And of course, an option to skip is good, but it shouldn't affect the result at all. The number should be determined at the start of the roll, the animation is simply cosmetic.
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Zizka
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Quote Zizka Replybullet Posted: 15 July 2017 at 10:38am
You mean something like this?

It's pretty basic at the moment, I could certainly animate it more but I don't want the whole thing to end up jarring or tedious, even that little pixel movement animation might be too much, not sure.
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Quote eishiya Replybullet Posted: 15 July 2017 at 11:57am
Yep, something like that! But maybe a sparkle animation, or just a checkmark above the die or something for completion of the roll, instead of the shaking animation?

Also, I think the new corners look much nicer :D
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Quote 7Soul Replybullet Posted: 15 July 2017 at 1:44pm
Or maybe make it bounce around like real dice. An extra "diagonal" frame in-between would look nice too I think
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Quote Zizka Replybullet Posted: 15 July 2017 at 2:27pm
@Alis: Originally that's what I wanted to do but we (in the chatterbox) concluded it would end up being tedious to check the same animation over and over again.

Also, if I add a diagonal frame, I have to redo each frame tilted for both top and bottom face of the die. If it were just the animation I'd do it but since it's in a game, I have to think about production "time".

How about something like this:


A few attempt at using more original design (none of them convincing):


Another attempt, this time without the white flash and faster writing of the number (a real 3 this time).


I prefer the 5 to be honest. 3 is written too fast and lacks punch without the white flash.
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Quote eishiya Replybullet Posted: 15 July 2017 at 5:36pm
I prefer the 5/flash too.
Maybe you can get the best of both worlds by having the flash but writing the number a little faster? I like how the number being written like an ink stroke, but maybe those frames can be played faster.
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Quote Zizka Replybullet Posted: 16 July 2017 at 4:53am
Alright.



So in the previous version, the writing was over 7 frames, I've cut it down to 5 frames. Anything shorter would hurt the writing animation.

I accelerated the flashing as well to get to the result faster in-game.

I also changed the number color. It's less homogeneous because I'm not using the same palette as the die, well, not entirely.

Basically, the better you are at something in the game, the more die you get to roll to get a higher result.

If the thief is rolling three die, I'd animated all three of them (like the "five"). Once the rolling is done, only the highest score is selected and identified with the number written underneath. Lower dice are dismissed: smaller and greyscaled. Are they still too big? Should I also write their score underneath? I decided not to because they end up being dismissed anyway.

I've also added an ork to give an idea what the the confrontation would look like. Player character are on the left side of the scroll and enemies are on the right side.

I've also changed the color of the ink, red for the foe, blue for the player.

So in this case, the player would win by +2. The more you win by, the more damage you cause. This way, I eliminate one step from combat in order to keep things streamlined and quick. In D&D, you'd roll to hit and for damage, that's two steps.

For example, the attack misses if it's at -1, minor damage at 0, 1 light damage at +1, medium damage at +2, etc...

I've also added the morale icons. Morale allows you to re-roll a dice. The layout is messed up at the moment, I'll need to make the scroll bigger which isn't a bad thing as I can stretch it further horizontally to make make better use of the lower portion of the screen.

Morale lets you reroll a die of your choice (more likely one of the greyed out die in this case).
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Quote Zizka Replybullet Posted: 16 July 2017 at 6:04am
Something like this basically (for the morale system):
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Quake
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Quote Quake Replybullet Posted: 16 July 2017 at 7:59am
This looks really good. Definite improvement over time.

My only suggestion is to add a divider between the three dice of the thief and the orc. Also, potentially put the "confirm" on the left, instead of the right.

keep it up :)
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Quote Zizka Replybullet Posted: 16 July 2017 at 9:47am
Thanks!

Alright, so I added a separation. Running out of room on the enemy side though even if I changed the scroll to make it higher and wider. See in this case I wouldn't have room to fit in the die roll for the enemy. I could make the scroll higher to have the die appear under the tokens as opposed to next to them. The thing is, I think the size of the scroll is good now and I'd rather not tinker with that further.

I'm thinking of having confirm/morale in a pop-window after the roll to save up on space (which is it's missing here).

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Quote eishiya Replybullet Posted: 16 July 2017 at 9:59am
I think the morale icons could be smaller. They just represent retries, afterall - there's no need for them to be so fancy.

I'm not sure how all these dice work. Does it roll 3 and pick the best? That feels a bit like it takes some of the fun out of dice rolling for me, since it greatly increases your chance of getting a high number, especially with the morale/rerolling ability. I don't know what gameplay exactly you're going for, but I think it would be more fun to use sums instead. That way, rerolling can be more strategic too - say you rolled 6, 4, and 2. It's much more interesting when you get to choose whether to reroll only the 2 for a pretty safe increase in the total, or the 4 and 2 and risk losing a decently high number for a chance at a higher one. If only the highest die counts instead of the sum, then the decisions are a lot less interesting. It also means less flexibility. Dice-based games often reward higher ranks in spells/skills with getting to roll more (summed) dice for damage/success. It's akin to how diceless computer games raise the min and max numbers on damage as you raise your stats/skills.
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Quote Zizka Replybullet Posted: 16 July 2017 at 2:33pm
I think the morale icons could be smaller. They just represent retries, afterall - there's no need for them to be so fancy.


I suppose.

Regarding the roll results:

It's basically the same concept as in Risk, the board game. It allows weaker opponents to stand a chance against a stronger one. You pick the highest of your rolls, regardless of how many die you roll.

A character with a combat of 1 (rolling one die) stands a chance against a character with a combat of 3 (rolling three die). If I did a sum in this situation, a character with one die doesn't really stand a chance for the sum.

I'm open to changing the system as it is, don't get me wrong, but I want a system where opponents stand a chance to land a blow even against someone more skilled than them.

I also want to keep numbers low, preferably less than 10. Having a potential sum of 18 is quite a bit higher than I had anticipated. This in turn can lead to all other stats becoming higher and that's a drag in my opinion.

I also want combat to be a one step process. In other words, a single roll to both determine if the hit lands and the damage that occurs (including other peripherals like armor).

You're right in saying that it'd be more fun to have a sum instead of a single die.

Trust me, I've racked my brain thinking about this and I haven't even implemented armor yet.

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Zizka
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Quote Zizka Replybullet Posted: 16 July 2017 at 3:20pm


Problem right now is that player side of the scroll takes too much space horizontally. That problem would get even worse if more die can be rolled.

Maybe I could use a pop-up window for the dice rolling which closes after the result is shown?
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eishiya
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Quote eishiya Replybullet Posted: 16 July 2017 at 3:28pm
How about positioning the dice in two rows? Top and left-aligned for the player, bottom and right-aligned for the enemy. Or, you could arrange the dice in columns.
Maybe you should figure out your mechanics first, decide how many dice maximum will ever need to be displayed on the screen.

You're putting a lot of work into a UI for mechanics you haven't even finalised yet xP
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Quote Zizka Replybullet Posted: 16 July 2017 at 3:45pm
The groundwork is there, I'd be silly to stick to my first idea if someone provides a better alternative. The work I've done so far is based on my original idea.

Actually making the scroll longer looks good enough I think:


5 can be displayed at most.
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