Pixel Joint Forum: Need help with a staircase

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   Okay, so. Basically I realise that I probably have o start all over again but I'd like someone to point out my mistakes on this one. It's for a roleplaying forum and is supposed to be the entrance staircase. It has to be as large as this though the staircase doesn't have to dominate the picture  Please help me realise what I could do better before I start all over again (and if you think there's anything I could do with this particular piece, I'd REALLY appreciate it) 

Edited them into a single image:

Edited by marilii - 25 January 2007 at 8:04am

Author	Message
marilii Midshipman Joined: 20 November 2005 Online Status: Offline Posts: 65	Topic: Need help with a staircase Posted: 18 January 2007 at 5:59am
	Okay, so. Basically I realise that I probably have o start all over again but I'd like someone to point out my mistakes on this one. It's for a roleplaying forum and is supposed to be the entrance staircase. It has to be as large as this though the staircase doesn't have to dominate the picture Please help me realise what I could do better before I start all over again (and if you think there's anything I could do with this particular piece, I'd REALLY appreciate it) Edited them into a single image: Edited by marilii - 25 January 2007 at 8:04am
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EyeCraft Commander Joined: 07 July 2005 Location: Australia Online Status: Offline Posts: 425	Posted: 18 January 2007 at 7:38am
	The main problem is the lack of perspective. At the moment its like some weird combination of orthographic and perspective projections. Here's a link to a number of tutorials/articles on perspective: http://www.khulsey.com/perspective_basics.html Hope thats helps
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Pixel_Outlaw Commander Joined: 01 September 2005 Online Status: Offline Posts: 3829	Posted: 18 January 2007 at 8:12am
	Yeah I'd just go with the old 1 vanishing point. YOu might want to AA the lines because they are going to look jagged.

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marilii Midshipman Joined: 20 November 2005 Online Status: Offline Posts: 65	Posted: 18 January 2007 at 9:48am
	Thank you for the tutorial...I'll see what I can come up with :D
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marilii Midshipman Joined: 20 November 2005 Online Status: Offline Posts: 65	Posted: 18 January 2007 at 2:08pm
	Well...I tried following perspective this time. Is this better? (I know, it's a completely different piece now). Perspective-wise I mean. There's not much else you can tell from a lineart.
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The B.O.B. Commander Joined: 07 April 2021 Online Status: Offline Posts: 461	Posted: 18 January 2007 at 2:24pm
	Much better. Perspective is correct now. May I suggest adding some things in the pic, so the obvious horizontal flipping isn't noticable? I understand Architecture-wise, it's better for things to have even structures, but I just think that sometimes scenes with using that theory come off as boring. Otherwise,Can't wait to see this colored...
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marilii Midshipman Joined: 20 November 2005 Online Status: Offline Posts: 65	Posted: 18 January 2007 at 2:28pm
	Well...the lineart's still incomplete so there will be some differences...I just needed to know the perspective was ok :D Thanks! :)
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marilii Midshipman Joined: 20 November 2005 Online Status: Offline Posts: 65	Posted: 19 January 2007 at 3:56pm
	Well, I couloured the center piece and would really like some C+C on that. And is it still a bit too symmetrical? Umm...the yellow squares will be paintings, I figured I'd do them last. The first floor is bugging me so if abyone knows how to fix it, I'd really appreciate it :D
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leel Commander Joined: 29 June 2005 Online Status: Offline Posts: 3001	Posted: 19 January 2007 at 4:40pm
	well you could work on floor tiles to add interest. Also the gradient you started adding on the second floor isnt working >.< nope nope. I'd say make the entire back wall darker to add depth, but dont do gradients. umm.. the colors are cute and sweet, and that's all I have for now. Keep working on it there's been a major improvement since the first draft ;)
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marilii Midshipman Joined: 20 November 2005 Online Status: Offline Posts: 65	Posted: 20 January 2007 at 5:08am
	Thank you, leel :D I tried my best at a marble floor (remembered why I hate marble, lol), started working on the right wall and tried to fix the upper floor. I will have to wait till Wednesday before I can continue with this but all C+C is extremely welcome.
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BlackDragon Commander Joined: 13 May 2014 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 729	Posted: 20 January 2007 at 7:19am
	I'd go with a lighter palette for the marble. I think its too dark to go with your pastels here. Also, I strongly suggest you AA the doorways (black hole things) the part where the wall meets floor, and the windows, maybe. Furthermore, what are you planning to do with the yellow (flags?)? Other than that, It's turning out very good, I love it ^^
	"A little pain never hurt anyone." - Blueberry_Pie
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leel Commander Joined: 29 June 2005 Online Status: Offline Posts: 3001	Posted: 20 January 2007 at 5:51pm
	the yellows will be pictures, as said before. I like the marble wall, the floor - I can't put my finger on it, but it looks odd imo. You'll need something cool behind those columns (where you made the wall darker.) but I think some ambience from the torches will be enough when you're done with those - i think you need more than the 1 by the door, and you definitelly need to light the wall accordingly. The statue needs more contrast, you can't even tell what it is right now because it's the same as the floor - it almost looks like cobwebs coming from a crack in the wall rather than a magician (i assume) I'm looking forward to another update :)
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jalonso Admiral Joined: 29 November 2022 Online Status: Offline Posts: 13537	Posted: 20 January 2007 at 7:02pm
	I must say this is looking better and better. A bit of shadow play could be your solution. Dramatic lights through the open areas to break the symmetry.
	PJs FAQ <•> Sticky Reads
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Skull Commander PJ Pioneer Joined: 03 August 2019 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1521	Posted: 21 January 2007 at 12:50am
	*Originally posted by jalonso* I must say this is looking better and better. Indeed. I love the work on the stones / bricks.

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marilii Midshipman Joined: 20 November 2005 Online Status: Offline Posts: 65	Posted: 21 January 2007 at 11:55am
	Thanks everyone for the comments! You've helped me loads :D I know I said I wouldn't be able to work on the piece until Wednesday....but it appears I was incapable of doing so and therefore present you with the next image. I am not entirely sure whether the colours are all alright because the screen I used this time shows a completely different image than my own but I hope it's fine nonetheless. Any C+C still welcome, I am planning to tweak it up a bit. P.S. If I have a couple more almost complete pieces should I display them in this topic or create a new one? (They're for the same RPG site, though) Edited by marilii - 22 January 2007 at 8:12am
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leel Commander Joined: 29 June 2005 Online Status: Offline Posts: 3001	Posted: 21 January 2007 at 12:17pm
	Wow. That looks really good. Great progress, wow! The floor looks better now, I think. One thing that stand out is the AA on the doors on the side walls. For lines like that, usually you need more than one pixel to soften the shift, here's what I mean: I might've taken it a bit too far :P and I added a color, just to show my point I think you could start another thread for another piece. It's much easier to get focused critique if there's only one pixel to look at. Obviously you should avoid posting 5 wip threads at once, but it's ok to have more than one. As long as you continue to update them, there won't be a problem :)
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marilii Midshipman Joined: 20 November 2005 Online Status: Offline Posts: 65	Posted: 22 January 2007 at 8:15am
	I tried to fix the AA I had. Thank you so much, I've never AAed anything and it really got me confused, lol. Here's the most recent version. What do you think. Is it complete now? Edited by marilii - 23 January 2007 at 11:10am
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Bifur Commander Joined: 15 April 2006 Location: Brazil Online Status: Offline Posts: 194	Posted: 22 January 2007 at 11:58am
	the height of the staircase is supposed to change , not just width... at least i think so
	I know! Leafs shouldn't make shadow...
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Buzz Midshipman Joined: 13 June 2006 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 94	Posted: 22 January 2007 at 2:10pm
	This looks great, but Bifur is right. If you really want perfect perspective, then the stair would grdaully become thinner as they went up.

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leel Commander Joined: 29 June 2005 Online Status: Offline Posts: 3001	Posted: 22 January 2007 at 2:49pm
	I dont think that's really an issue at this scale though.. the stairs can't get thinner than 1 px. and it would look off if he made them thicker at the bottom.
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Bifur Commander Joined: 15 April 2006 Location: Brazil Online Status: Offline Posts: 194	Posted: 22 January 2007 at 6:19pm
	1 pixel is kinda small for the size of the doors , i guess. like ,the door in the same "layer" as the last stair so the last stair should have enough size for one step here is an exemple , i just think he should lower the number and make it more detailed... just guess btw
	I know! Leafs shouldn't make shadow...
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leel Commander Joined: 29 June 2005 Online Status: Offline Posts: 3001	Posted: 22 January 2007 at 6:59pm
	I tried editing it, and personally, I like the original version more.. i think making the steps different heights overcomplicates it. It's really not that great of a distance that the lines would foreshorten all that much. Also, based on the very first draft of the room, I think the stairs get wider not because of the perspective, but because they are just.. wider at the bottom - the slope of the railings is different than that of the converging lines where walls meet floor. This is just my opinion though, Marilii you should experiment with this and see which one looks best.
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Bifur Commander Joined: 15 April 2006 Location: Brazil Online Status: Offline Posts: 194	Posted: 23 January 2007 at 8:19am
	i did experiment edition too.. it come out this ,altouh i don't think its bad (apart from jiggy lines etc), its not enough natural , so i guess leel is right , its up to him
	I know! Leafs shouldn't make shadow...
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leel Commander Joined: 29 June 2005 Online Status: Offline Posts: 3001	Posted: 23 January 2007 at 8:53am
	yeah that looks better than my try. But now, don't the railings have to get wider at the bottom as well? Also it bugs me a bit that the outline of the stairs on the side is a straight line when they aren't flat - shouldn't it be more like \|______\| /_______\ Rather than just /_______\ \|________\| /_________\ /________ \ /__________\ ?
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Ensellitis Commander Joined: 19 June 2005 Online Status: Offline Posts: 10099	Posted: 23 January 2007 at 8:59am
	i actually prefer the new one much more. it adds alot more depth
	ಠ_ಠ There's a pubic hair on my keyboard. What the f**k?? I "mow the lawn" so it's not mine. Gross.
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NMEwithin Midshipman Joined: 29 December 2006 Online Status: Offline Posts: 43	Posted: 23 January 2007 at 9:13am
	I agree...the new edit shows much more depth. I agree with Leel as well.....while the stairs themselves look better...there is still something that needs to change with the railing....not sure what though
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Bifur Commander Joined: 15 April 2006 Location: Brazil Online Status: Offline Posts: 194	Posted: 23 January 2007 at 9:15am
	*Originally posted by leel* yeah that looks better than my try. But now, don't the railings have to get wider at the bottom as well? Also it bugs me a bit that the outline of the stairs on the side is a straight line when they aren't flat - shouldn't it be more like \|______\| /_______\ Rather than just /_______\ \|________\| /_________\ /________ \ /__________\ ? yeah probably , i 've just stick with the lineart , and that's how i came ,tried not to change much ,i used the image i posted here as ref Edited by Bifur - 23 January 2007 at 9:15am
	I know! Leafs shouldn't make shadow...
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Aleiav Commander Joined: 08 April 2016 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2380	Posted: 23 January 2007 at 10:36am
	I definately like the newer one, but it seems like it doesn't have highlights or the highlights aren't as bold as they should be. Brighter highlights would definitely give it more depth.
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marilii Midshipman Joined: 20 November 2005 Online Status: Offline Posts: 65	Posted: 23 January 2007 at 11:17am
	I tried it out myself and that's what I got: I didn't think the ledges (hope I'm using the correct term here) should be as wide because you can't really see them above eye level. I also tried making the railings a wee bit wider at the bottom as well, though leel was right in saying that the steps at the bottom should, in fact, be wider than those at the top. I hope I managed to pull off the staircase decently. And just for the record, I'm a girl ;) (though you don't have to remember that :P)
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Ensellitis Commander Joined: 19 June 2005 Online Status: Offline Posts: 10099	Posted: 23 January 2007 at 11:24am
	well, if you compare the size of the doorways to the size of the steps, they would be around 1 to 2 inches wide/high, your last edit seemed more realistic and was also more eye pleasing, imo
	ಠ_ಠ There's a pubic hair on my keyboard. What the f**k?? I "mow the lawn" so it's not mine. Gross.
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marilii Midshipman Joined: 20 November 2005 Online Status: Offline Posts: 65	Posted: 23 January 2007 at 11:38am
	Erm...I'm a bit confused. Do you mean the one I did or Bifur's edit? Because from your last post I understood that you liked Bifur's edit... But the trouble I had with that edit was that to me, it seemed that the viewer was looking down at the staircase rather than looking straight at it. Though it may be just me. I do get the feeling that something's off in my version, just can't put my finger on it (and I really liked Bifur's edit as well). Edited by marilii - 23 January 2007 at 12:21pm
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Ensellitis Commander Joined: 19 June 2005 Online Status: Offline Posts: 10099	Posted: 23 January 2007 at 3:41pm
	this one
	ಠ_ಠ There's a pubic hair on my keyboard. What the f**k?? I "mow the lawn" so it's not mine. Gross.
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