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Skaka
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Quote Skaka Replybullet Topic: New guy looking for help
    Posted: 31 October 2007 at 6:02pm
Hey I'm new on these forums and pretty new to pixel art ;]
Anyways I've posted my first 2 pieces bellow and I'd like some of you guys to criticize it constructively and help me know how I could improve :)

This is just a face of a dessert wondering dude in a cloak (inspired by Qui-Gon Jin):



On this image I know the throne is a little crappy but I just slapped it together quickly to help you put the pic of her in context, otherwise she looks really weird just floating in mid air :P :


Bonus points if anyone can guess who she's supposed to be :)
*Edit: Don't know what I did't do this the first time round but credit to Visual Noise on some of the facial elements on Cleopatra :)


Edited by Skaka - 04 November 2007 at 3:57am
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Skaka
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Quote Skaka Replybullet Posted: 31 October 2007 at 6:04pm
Hmm for some reason I cant't see the pics I linked in the thread so I'll jost post the URLS:

http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s285/steers_album/cloaked.png?t=1193879042
http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s285/steers_album/onthrone.png?t=1193878882
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greenraven
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Quote greenraven Replybullet Posted: 31 October 2007 at 6:29pm




Here you go, showing pics now.

I'd say that's Cleopatra. Oh and welcome.
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Larwick
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Quote Larwick Replybullet Posted: 31 October 2007 at 6:42pm
Moved to the WIP forum. No problem though, since they're easily mistakeable. Welcome to Pixeljoint Skaka! :D

No CC from me for the moment cus i'm tired, but i'll watch over the thread.
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Skaka
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Quote Skaka Replybullet Posted: 31 October 2007 at 6:44pm
Thanks for the warm welcome guys and thanks to Raven for linking the images better than I could :P
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jalonso
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Quote jalonso Replybullet Posted: 31 October 2007 at 8:02pm
I'd say your lines are a little dirty.
There's no need for dithering especially 50/50. You have the needed colors to color block.

On the Cleo, the gold are not 'gold'. Very nice on the selout do more of that.
Maybe even add the asp.

Anyhoo, welcome.
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Skaka
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Quote Skaka Replybullet Posted: 01 November 2007 at 1:11am
Thanks for the CC jalonso :)
I'll upload links to the updated images as soon as I finish them :)
On the dithering thing that was kind of an experiment just to see if I could, but I guess when you're right you're right so I'm redoing that anyways :P

On thing though, what do you mean by 'asp'?
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jalonso
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Quote jalonso Replybullet Posted: 01 November 2007 at 5:14am
An asp is the type of snake that Cleopatra supposedly killed herself with.

ps. she needs toes.
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Skaka
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Quote Skaka Replybullet Posted: 01 November 2007 at 5:46am
Look closely there are about 3 pixels worth of toe poking out XD But you're right I might make her toes stick out a teensy bit more.

Anyway I took most of the dither out of the desert man, but just left some in to see if I can sneak it past you :P I don't think it's noticeable without close scrutiny.

Here's the dessert man pix (I hope the link works this time).:

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jalonso
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Quote jalonso Replybullet Posted: 01 November 2007 at 8:36am
Oh man I wasn't telling you what to do :)
I was merely pointing out that dithering is called for when you have a color limit and need to blend. Here you had enough colors so I felt is wasn't needed. I find your latest version to be too pixelled. I think this would be fine with just color blocking and perhaps changing the BG to more of an interior candle/flame lit atmosphere. With darker/harder shading especially in the face.

*edit?
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Metaru
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Quote Metaru Replybullet Posted: 01 November 2007 at 8:38am
the ligth comes from the top left position, so i would reflect that in the face features and clothing. since he on a place with a high luminance, and he's facing oposite to the ligthsourcr, i would use strong shadows. 
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Skaka
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Quote Skaka Replybullet Posted: 01 November 2007 at 9:22am
Hmmmm I did have a version with stronger and harder shadows but I deleted it because it made the entire thing look like a formless mess :/ Oh and the reason I did it so 'pixelated' was because when I do just color blocking it starts looking like the man's cloak is made out of injection-molded plastic. So I just tried a little texture on the cloth ^^ Might upload new Cleo later tonight if I get round to it (English homework grrrr :P_
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Skaka
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Quote Skaka Replybullet Posted: 01 November 2007 at 10:24am
Here's an update on the dessert guy: I redid the shadows after reading through some tutorials and looking at some other art and I think it came out allot better =D So watcha think?

Also appart from the pixel technique I'd like to know what  you guys think of the background and the proportions etc if that looks OK.
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Skaka
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Quote Skaka Replybullet Posted: 02 November 2007 at 12:17pm
Bah no-body's replying so I'm just gonna show the final version an be done with it. If any body thinks it's good enough for the gallery let me know ;]


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spartan_117
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Quote spartan_117 Replybullet Posted: 02 November 2007 at 12:27pm

for one, your light source is out of place.

The shadows and lighting on the guy suggest the light is coming from above and not from the side.

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Metaru
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Quote Metaru Replybullet Posted: 02 November 2007 at 12:57pm
also, your face is pillowshaded. and ligth clearly comes from the sun, wich is located behind this guy, at the top rigth corner. the highlight on his cloak suggest that ligth soruces comes from somewhere rigth above him. this has a direct impact on how the shadows is projected over his face features, like the eyes and nose(specially the nose)

i'll give you a rougth edit in a couple of minutes.

don't get anxious waiting for replys. no one is going to run to answer in your thread. let it flow dude, let it flow.
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Skaka
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Quote Skaka Replybullet Posted: 02 November 2007 at 1:03pm
Ok cool :)
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Skaka
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Quote Skaka Replybullet Posted: 02 November 2007 at 8:12pm
Yet another image update:

Changed the shading on the face and completely redid the hood of the cloak. It's far from perfect and throws up a whole slew of other issues but I'll just see what you guys think of it first.

PS: I spent most of the time re-doing this image thinking about how I myself will become a wandering desert man from going crazy over trying to do this pic right!
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jalonso
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Quote jalonso Replybullet Posted: 02 November 2007 at 8:24pm
I like this coloring way better.
Try coloring the nose using the lighter brown and even AA it a bit.


Edit: why the green on the sun?


Edited by jalonso - 02 November 2007 at 8:24pm
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Quote micr0softener Replybullet Posted: 03 November 2007 at 3:00am
Okay. The image is pretty good at the moment, but keep thinking about that lighting- the inside of the hood should be black all the way through. Also, there would probably be some kind of shade down our side of the nose from the hood's shadow, given the now-strongly-directional lighting you've got going on. Good luck anyway.
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Skaka
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Quote Skaka Replybullet Posted: 03 November 2007 at 8:23am
YAIU:
Just some of the minor fixes that have been suggested. Don't really like the nose now becuase it's lost it's definition :/
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Metaru
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Quote Metaru Replybullet Posted: 03 November 2007 at 8:31am

also, we are focusing too much on the shadowing, so i didn't notice the fact that the hood is way more bigger than his head is suposed to/could be.
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Skaka
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Quote Skaka Replybullet Posted: 03 November 2007 at 10:31am
Hey Metaru, thanks for the help but I :) I also think the head might be a little to big, but take into consideration the fact that his head is kind of bowed down so you can see the top, and also the eyes are supposed to be allot higher than in your shading  :P

Hmmm...maybe if I moved the nose and mouth up?
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Quote greenraven Replybullet Posted: 03 November 2007 at 12:42pm
Something about the nose seems to bother me.
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Skaka
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Quote Skaka Replybullet Posted: 03 November 2007 at 12:51pm
Same here. I've been tearing my hair out trying to get it to look 'right'. What's really frustrating is just when I think I've got it, I look away for a sec and when I look again it looks awful. I'll update tomorrow again :P
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Skaka
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Quote Skaka Replybullet Posted: 03 November 2007 at 3:21pm
Another image update:

I think I figured out what was wrong: The nose was too high :P That's why the head looks mis formed, the way the head is supposed to be position is so that only the lower half of his face is showing like so :


Yeah so anyway this time I tried the harsher shadows Metaru's fix, looks a little wierd but I'll work on it some more later (damn this pixel art stuff is hard how many versions is that now? XD)
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jalonso
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Quote jalonso Replybullet Posted: 03 November 2007 at 6:13pm
Luke, that's the secret to good pixelart.
You are on your way to Jedi-dom ;)
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Skaka
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Quote Skaka Replybullet Posted: 04 November 2007 at 6:00am
Haha, ok Jalonso I will train long and hard :P

Here's another image update I think I almost got it:

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jalonso
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Quote jalonso Replybullet Posted: 04 November 2007 at 9:44am
You never answered why the sun is green and red o.O
I just find the BG all wrong for this guy. Its a cowboy BG not a monk's.
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Skaka
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Quote Skaka Replybullet Posted: 04 November 2007 at 10:07am
Green and red?o0 It's supposed to be yellow and orange :/ Must be your screen or my screen :P Post a color fix /w what you think is the right colors then ^^

Also concerning the background he's supposed to be a dessert wanderer not a monk :P The cloak is supposed to protect his eyes and neck etc from the sun:P If I put him in a monastery then I'd have to completely re-do the lighting  AGAIN and I might  jump off a bridge then :P

Like I said the man was inspired by the likes of Qui-Gon Jin and Obi-wan Kenobi :)
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Skull Master
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Quote Skull Master Replybullet Posted: 04 November 2007 at 10:07am
I don't like your last one as much as the one before it, but, wow! you've defiantly come a long way haven't you? ^^






Edited by Skull Master - 04 November 2007 at 10:09am


leel: "At least I'm not claiming to a master in anything."

lol, oops. Xp
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jalonso
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Quote jalonso Replybullet Posted: 04 November 2007 at 10:54am
Pink shows colors that are wasted (3) used those 3 colors and invested in 3 blues.
Tweaked the highlights and sun.




edit: Mac monitors do not lie :p


Edited by jalonso - 04 November 2007 at 10:57am
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Hatch
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Quote Hatch Replybullet Posted: 04 November 2007 at 10:58am
The head is teeny and bizarrely narrow. Certainly way to small for that cowl:

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Skaka
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Quote Skaka Replybullet Posted: 04 November 2007 at 11:37am
Hatch look a few posts up and you'll see how the head is meant to be shaped :) But I understand that the face is narrow I'll post a fix later :P
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Hatch
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Quote Hatch Replybullet Posted: 04 November 2007 at 12:42pm
I saw how the head is supposed to be shaped. The trouble is it looks nothing like that.

EDIT: zomg



Edited by Hatch - 04 November 2007 at 12:49pm
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Skaka
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Quote Skaka Replybullet Posted: 04 November 2007 at 2:00pm
Ok here's another update where I tried not to make his face look so thin while still using strong shadows:
Thanks for the help hatch but I think you're remake went to far in the other direction but tell me if you think this looks wide enough :)
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Quote BlackDragon Replybullet Posted: 04 November 2007 at 4:14pm

Much better! Looks more natural.

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Hatch
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Quote Hatch Replybullet Posted: 04 November 2007 at 4:45pm
The face definitely looks better, but it's pointing a different direction from the hood. Furthermore, the top half of the head, judging from the bridge of the nose, is facing a different direction from the bottom half of the head.
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jalonso
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Quote jalonso Replybullet Posted: 04 November 2007 at 4:53pm
What about my green sun edit 
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Quote Squirrelsquid Replybullet Posted: 04 November 2007 at 6:10pm
I'd agree with Jal about the green sun edit...
your sky is not conform with the rest. replace it, it's just outdated.

The face still looks off, if you ask me. a mix of your current face and the one Hatch did, would look great in this one.

it's late, so tata!

vote for squirrels crates!
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Skaka
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Quote Skaka Replybullet Posted: 05 November 2007 at 1:01am
Yaya I'll get to the son! Oy  vey :P
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Metaru
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Quote Metaru Replybullet Posted: 05 November 2007 at 8:15am
i would take off that BG for now.
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Skaka
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Quote Skaka Replybullet Posted: 05 November 2007 at 9:38am

Just another update. Removed the background and I'll redo it later.
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Skaka
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Quote Skaka Replybullet Posted: 06 November 2007 at 11:19am
Heh looks like I completely drained you guys of CC :P
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Metaru
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Quote Metaru Replybullet Posted: 06 November 2007 at 11:43am

avoid bumping your topics skaka
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Quote Hyrule_SwordsMa Replybullet Posted: 06 November 2007 at 12:02pm
That ñlooks cool, Metaru He looks more matuyre!, but the cap still needs some work
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Skaka
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Quote Skaka Replybullet Posted: 06 November 2007 at 3:20pm
Sorry about the bump then :P I've started to see how the cowl is too big so yeah I'm fixing that. You're fix actually looks pretty good except yeah gonna work on the cowl some more I'll post an update tomorrow sometime. Riddle me this though what should I do for a BG? I know Jalonso already said a sort of closed church with candles but the will completely mess up the shading and I might then have to do some serious self-harm! Oh and I missed your background change until now Jal sorry if I just seem like a noob who won't listen :P
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Skaka
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Quote Skaka Replybullet Posted: 07 November 2007 at 4:03am
Another update:
Smaller hood, redone the shadowing (again -.-).
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Club Beuker
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Quote Club Beuker Replybullet Posted: 07 November 2007 at 4:14am
Nice work there, it really starts to look like a realistic pic. What some effort can do ;)
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Skaka
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Quote Skaka Replybullet Posted: 07 November 2007 at 9:41am
Thanks Beuker, you got any suggestions on a BG though? 'Cause I'm pretty much stuck on this piece.
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