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Topic: Not sure what to call this topic >_< |
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greenraven
Commander
Joined: 08 September 2016 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2598 |
![]() Topic: Not sure what to call this topic >_<Posted: 03 November 2007 at 11:11pm |
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(Not sure what to call this topic, mods feel free to re-name it.)
I just checked the FAQs as well as a bunch of other topics, some of the stuff is covered (but not that well), some isn't. Instead of spreading it all over the place I'll just create a new topic to cover everything. I guess these are my two cents on the issues I wish to address:
And for those of you wondering, no, I'm not disgruntled because I just had something rejected from the gallery. The last thing I submitted was the dancing zombie. And, no, I haven't received any bad comments either. These are just a few things that I observed here and there that are on my mind right now. I'm sure some of you out there must be thinking something like this, but are just afraid of asking, I'm just stepping up and making a topic about it. ![]() I'm not looking to be a firestarter, you know the guy with the torch and the tank of gas that starts a flamewar, these are just some valid thoughts I had, is all. Feel free to respond, comment, debate, rebut. I'd happily wish to hear what you have say about all of this. Also feel free to flame, but don't expect to accomplish anything productive, one of my personal mottos is "Sticks and stones..." and "I know you are, but what am I." ![]() ![]() |
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"pwnage comes with patience, practice and planning." ~ Jalonso
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M.E.
Commander
Joined: 26 February 2007 Online Status: Offline Posts: 430 |
![]() Posted: 04 November 2007 at 1:32am |
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Hi GreenRaven,
Thank you very much for the effort you have put into this. I'm visiting this site a few months now and for me the real benefit is the WIP forum. That is the reason I have registered and ask for help with my pixels. Personally I never cared for the gallery, but I do realize that this is a really important part of this website. Submitting to the gallery is among other things part of increasing your level and therefore unlock some of the other parts of the board. The most important rule should be the ripping. When you take something and put your name on it without doing anything it is wrong. Period! BUT, if someone modifies something (and makes a reference to it) I'm perfectly fine with that. Look at the parody that Duchamp made when he drew a mustache on the Mona Lisa. Then there is the thing about Lil' Dudes. Don't get me wrong. I'm not a fan of them. But I do think that ANYTHING that motivates, stimulates or inspires to lift up the mouse or tablet to make some pixels should be allowed to have a place on the board. Maybe special sections for wees, lildudes, fanbased art? There is a rating/voting system attached to submitting pieces to the gallery. Personally I would open up this section to everybody. So anybody can have their vote if something is worthwhile to be added to the gallery, because I do realize and support such a voting mechanism to uphold some quality. Level 2 and upward could maybe have a stronger vote?!? A few comments to your points: - Ripping = Stealing = Bad = Pixels removed , Poster gets one time warning - Submit your own work. Adjusting somebody elses stuff should be ok as long as credit is given and references are made. - NPA, gradients : You are not getting a better (pixel) artist when you use them. Commenting on them should be sufficient and in voting mechanism it can be a method of removal. - NPA, Color conservation: Completely agree with you! - NPA, Oekaki: Can be stylistic choice and again should be permitted if it comes through the voting. - WIPs: 'some people have a very low tolerance for C&C' Actually, then you shouldn't be posting in public. But ok, there could be a checkmark to have the poster control of the comment-editor. By default it could be turned on. But poster could uncheck it thus preventing anybody to comment on the piece. (The rating system could be in place, oh and OT: maybe the system could be adjusted to see a kind of score where you could maybe also see how many people have scored you ) - Leading by Example/Elitism: My comment on this is that you should not do to others what you don't want them to do to you .... Another NPA could be added to your list: NPA, Color Reduction: Allthough it is a great way of learning it will not make you a better artist if you keep using it when making pixels. Again, let the voting mechanism do its work. Those were my two cents. Best regards from M.E. |
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KunstStukken.nl M.E. Art
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jalonso
Admiral
Joined: 29 November 2022 Online Status: Offline Posts: 13537 |
![]() Posted: 04 November 2007 at 4:27am |
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This may belong in this topic where most of this is covered.
Oekaki is not permitted ever. It is a different art style than pixelart. Some process and procedures are similar but they are different things. Its like this, at the Museum of Modern Art they would never show a painting from the Renessaince even though it is created with oils and a brush because it is not Modern Art. Edited by jalonso - 04 November 2007 at 4:32am |
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Monkey 'o Doom
Commander
Joined: 24 September 2005 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2994 |
![]() Posted: 04 November 2007 at 6:02am |
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Color Conservation:
Pixel art has its roots in the ages of system restrictions, when you had 4 or 16 colors and maybe you couldn't even use them all next to each other because of the GPU. Artists were forced to work around this adversity and they developed the ability to make great art with few colors and well-looping animations with few frames. Also, the use of color is simplified once you have finalized your palette: instead of having to know which one of your 2.8 million reddish colors, you use the red in your palette and accent with other colors to give subtle details of hue. And after the art is done, one may tweak palettes to their liking. With 16 or 20 colors this isn't a problem at all, but when one has 256 or 16,777,216 colors in a massive piece, even if it was all done pixel-by-pixel, it will be a veritable bitch to tweak colors by hand.
Gradients:
Gradients encourage sucky shading and laziness in the application of color to surfaces. This is never a good thing. They also inflate color counts massively if done with a tool. If you need a transition between colors in pixel art, it's acceptable to add a few colors or dither, but having a new shade for every 1pixel line of your huge gradient is ridiculous and will most likely result in wasted colors and the gradient looking out of place in your piece.
WIPs:
I don't know; I think some members may have problems with cookie-cutter responses like "needs aa. dither it too, and clean your lines" There's nothing wrong with these crits, but it should be a goal of a critique to emphasize WHY the actions prescribed will benefit the piece. If the poster can't find a reason the piece actually needs aa, but rather just noticed its absence and acted from that, then antialiasing can gtfo for the time being, if you know what I mean. So I think it would be useful for posts of critique to go through this change:
This:
You need more contrast and make the wings bigger. Also shift the hue so it'll make the thing look better. Maybe you could AA it? To this:
If you added contrast (increased the difference between colors) it would help keep the sprite in front of the background because eyes are drawn to areas of high contrast. You could also achieve this by varying saturation some between sprite & BG. Also, the sprite's wings look really small for allowing flight; do you have a reference you're getting proportions from or is there an in-game reason for it, or would you consider changing them for realism? One thing you might want to try is tinting highlight tones of colors toward the color of the lightsource, and shadow colors toward the color of the object that would reflect the most light on them, so you would tint the sprite's highlights red from the setting sun and his shadows purple from the blue sea's reflection of light that's mostly red. <AA comment removed because sprites on dynamic BGs chould not be aa'ed to them.> |
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M.E.
Commander
Joined: 26 February 2007 Online Status: Offline Posts: 430 |
![]() Posted: 04 November 2007 at 6:05am |
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Hi Jalonso,
Yup, I agree, it would have been better if GreenRaven had continued from that. Best regards from M.E. |
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KunstStukken.nl M.E. Art
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greenraven
Commander
Joined: 08 September 2016 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2598 |
![]() Posted: 04 November 2007 at 7:19am |
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M.E. and Monkey 'o Doom, those were the kind of comments I was hoping to get. Thank you.
jalonso, finally someone gave an answer about Oekaki that isn't a simple "it isn't pixelart" and one that I can actually understand. Thank you very much. ![]() (And I guess this could have gone into the FAQ, you should be able to merge this topic into it. Just move the first post.) Hopefully this will get more comments so I can get a broader understanding on how the average artist sees these topics. A lot of different places have a lot of different rules regarding the very same things. I'm just testing the limits and boundaries here now, so I don't make an idiot out of myself later. ![]() |
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"pwnage comes with patience, practice and planning." ~ Jalonso
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Hatch
Admiral
Joined: 05 August 2015 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1387 |
![]() Posted: 04 November 2007 at 8:20am |
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I think color conservation is important to learn when first starting out, but once you've got your feet planted and you understand and respect the disciplines of pixel art, you may transgress them. The artist Riva is a good example of this. Most of his pieces have 100+ colors, but no one really minds because he's obviously done his time as a pixel artist and deliberately chooses to use such a large palette. It's a difference between making an informed decision with an understanding of the disciplines of the medium, and simply being ignorant, sloppy, or lazy.
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spartan_117
Commander
Joined: 14 June 2007 Online Status: Offline Posts: 478 |
![]() Posted: 04 November 2007 at 8:36am |
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Originally posted by Hatch
I think color conservation is important to learn when first starting out, but once you've got your feet planted and you understand and respect the disciplines of pixel art, you may transgress them. The artist Riva there is also that guy who did that realistic looking bat/rat thing. i dont recall who
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Tirza
Seaman
Joined: 10 November 2007 Online Status: Offline Posts: 20 |
![]() Posted: 10 November 2007 at 7:34am |
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Great, interesting and helpful message. Thanks :)
Tirza |
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