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Amorphous
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Quote Amorphous Replybullet Topic: Oriental Dragon
    Posted: 26 January 2008 at 11:31am
If there already weren't enough dragons...
 
I've decided to go with a very saturated pallete on this one (as well as a very colorful one)...
 
I don't like the beard and the legs too much, so if there are any tips, that'll be great.
 
As usual, crits and comments appreciated.
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Quote greenraven Replybullet Posted: 26 January 2008 at 11:55am
Not bad, but it looks more like a gecko. These kinds of dragons tend to be A LOT longer like snakes.





Kinda like this.
"pwnage comes with patience, practice and planning." ~ Jalonso   
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Quote Amorphous Replybullet Posted: 26 January 2008 at 11:59am
Thanks. I haven't finished the body yet, but now that I look at it, it does look slightly like a gecko. (Minus head)
 
Should I just add on to the tail or reposition the back legs entirely?
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Quote greenraven Replybullet Posted: 26 January 2008 at 12:02pm
Take the legs out for now. And make the tail longer, (twists and loops if you want), then add the legs in the end.
"pwnage comes with patience, practice and planning." ~ Jalonso   
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Quote Amorphous Replybullet Posted: 26 January 2008 at 12:08pm
Is that good or should I go even longer?
I excluded legs for now, and made it a bit larger...
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Quote greenraven Replybullet Posted: 26 January 2008 at 12:12pm
Seems ok, but you can go longer if you want.
"pwnage comes with patience, practice and planning." ~ Jalonso   
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Amorphous
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Quote Amorphous Replybullet Posted: 26 January 2008 at 6:32pm
Update!
I think I may have gone overboard with the pattern, but I think it's alright, since I have a very inconvenient pallete.
 
As usual, crits and comments are appreciated.
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Quote Hatch Replybullet Posted: 26 January 2008 at 8:12pm
I don't really understand why you're forcing yourself to use such a horrible palette...?

At any rate, I really think you should work on cleaning up the line art and making nice pleasing smooth curves before taking the shading much further.
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Quote Blu Replybullet Posted: 26 January 2008 at 10:18pm
I think that palette looks awesome. :D
 
But, yeah, make the dragon a bit more "smooth", just the curves less jagged. I'd add some whiskers, but also change its left arm, the one most visible. There's that long line of red, that just doesn't look quite right compared to the rest of the pattern.
 
Also, I think make the tongue a bit more smooth, as well. Love the head shape, though. ^^
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Quote Amorphous Replybullet Posted: 27 January 2008 at 6:57am

Thanks for the comments, as well as the advice. I hopefully fixed some of the lineart, and went on and shaded a little more.

@Hatch: I wanted to see if completely clashing colors could work together...
 
@BluWriter: I completely forgot about whiskers...I'm going to add some, but I don't know what color to make them.
 
Update
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Quote Hapiel Replybullet Posted: 27 January 2008 at 7:27am
This palette is really great! However, your lines are a bit.. straight.. Its a straigt art, than a corner, than a straigh part, than a corner... it should be come a curve. I know, you cant get pixel perfect lines than but maybe you should not worry too much about that. You might even try to fix that with some AA (if you are going to add a background)

I liked it more without legs. the arms do not look the same length.
Also I suggest you remove the beard and refine the horns, the black outline doesnt work very well on them.

Great stuff, I would really like to see this finished!

Lollige
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Quote Amorphous Replybullet Posted: 27 January 2008 at 7:37am
@Lollige:
Thanks!
I don't want to remove the beard, but I agree that it looks pretty bad.
(I'll have to fix it up.)
 
Also, I don't see anything wrong with the arms. Care to explain?
 
I'll post my update soon.
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Quote Blu Replybullet Posted: 27 January 2008 at 8:40am
The pattern on the arm looks a lot better.
 
I think its left arm is longer than its right, though... *just realized that* But it's mostly how it *looks*, I think. If you measure it with your fingers it looks pretty much the same, I think. :/ Not sure. *Prods it*
 
Good luck!
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Quote Amorphous Replybullet Posted: 27 January 2008 at 9:02am
I don't know...
 
I tried to fix up the beard, and although I think it looks much better than the old beard, it still looks a bit awkward.
 
And I didn't edit the horns yet; I'm not sure what to do with them.
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Quote Blu Replybullet Posted: 27 January 2008 at 10:53am
You could try making the horns thinner and longer and maybe branch it out earlier?
Like, have the horn keep going, but where it branches out be earlier on...
 
*Ponders* Maybe try making the base color of the beard lighter, and make it more...flowy, somehow...
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Quote Amorphous Replybullet Posted: 27 January 2008 at 11:11am
@Bluwriter:
Thank you for all the advice. I think I'll keep the beard for right now, and I'll see what I can do to the horns. I can't make it any longer, but having the branches come out earlier makes sense.
 
EDIT: Update
Fixed up the horns a bit.


Edited by Amorphous - 27 January 2008 at 12:21pm
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Blu
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Quote Blu Replybullet Posted: 27 January 2008 at 12:22pm
*Nods* No problem. ^^
 
And, btw, I like it with the backlegs better than without. Just another 2 cents of mine. ;)
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Quote Hatch Replybullet Posted: 27 January 2008 at 12:59pm
Quick note: he currently has two right arms.
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Kee
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Quote Kee Replybullet Posted: 27 January 2008 at 1:01pm
It is looking good. I like the colors!
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Quote Amorphous Replybullet Posted: 27 January 2008 at 1:05pm
@Hatch:
Actually, the way the dragon's arms are set up are identical to eagle claws, with the 'thumb' all the way in the back. I might have to change the position of his right 'thumb' to illustrate the point.
 
@Kee:
Thanks!
 
EDIT: Another update:
Did more shading, and repositioned thumb of the dragon's right hand.


Edited by Amorphous - 27 January 2008 at 2:25pm
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Quote Blu Replybullet Posted: 27 January 2008 at 3:23pm
Looks good to me! ^^ One part that's bothering me, a little before the legs meet the body, there's a line of red that, coupled with the body thinning, almost makes it look like the dragon was cut up and pieced back together or has some swelling or something... XD
 
 
Circled it.
 
On its left hand, I'd have the fingers kind of...overlap some. *bad explanation*
 
Kind of like that.
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Quote Amorphous Replybullet Posted: 27 January 2008 at 4:27pm
Like this?
I didn't understand you fully, but from what I know, I think you thought that the abrupt ending of red and then starting it again looked strange.
 
So I fixed that.
 
Also, with the hands, I think they look nice the way they are, mainly because I purposefully separated all of them.
 
But thank you for the advice.
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Quote Blu Replybullet Posted: 27 January 2008 at 5:30pm
Okay. ^^ I think the scales look better. :]
 
Try shading the fingers a bit if you can?
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Quote Kee Replybullet Posted: 27 January 2008 at 5:58pm
how many colors?
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Quote Amorphous Replybullet Posted: 27 January 2008 at 6:11pm
@Kee:
12 colors, including outline and transparency.
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Quote Kee Replybullet Posted: 27 January 2008 at 7:01pm
doing pretty good!
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Quote Amorphous Replybullet Posted: 28 January 2008 at 12:57pm
@Kee:
Thanks!
 
Anyways, Update!
I think I'm doing pretty well with the body, and I don't think this needs a background. However, I don't know if I should still fix the horns or beard...
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Quote Blu Replybullet Posted: 28 January 2008 at 2:57pm
Looks really really cool. ^^
 
I'd try using a different color than black for the outline, just to see how it looks. Fiddle with it!


Edited by BluWriter - 28 January 2008 at 2:57pm
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Quote Amorphous Replybullet Posted: 28 January 2008 at 5:05pm
Like this?
It was pretty hard to find the right color for some places, so I left them black.
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Quote thesalus Replybullet Posted: 28 January 2008 at 7:48pm
As mentioned before, your curves tend to be very angular. Here's a small edit where I softened them up some.

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Quote Larwick Replybullet Posted: 29 January 2008 at 5:54am
i strongly agree with thesalus, but would take it even farther when editing. I would also take a good look at the dragons body width, it's hard on the eye to have it change size so much along the shape. The head is massive in comparison to the neck area, they look stuck together rather than as one. I would give your dragon more of a flow to it's body. Widen the body until after the hind legs, or you will have something that looks like it's limbs and head are pasted on, or are limp and unstable.

Hope i got my point across, keep it up.
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Quote Blu Replybullet Posted: 29 January 2008 at 12:18pm
So you know, the outline looks really awesome.
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Quote Amorphous Replybullet Posted: 29 January 2008 at 1:24pm
@thesalus:
Thank you for the edit; I tried making my curves more curvy-ish afterward.
 
@Larwick:
I understand, and I widened the body enough to hopefully not make the limbs look awkward.
 
@BluWriter:
Thanks!
 
Anyway, Update!
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Quote Blu Replybullet Posted: 29 January 2008 at 1:53pm
Looks great. ^^ The thickness seems more even to me. :)
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Quote Bifur Replybullet Posted: 29 January 2008 at 2:45pm
i love the head

but I think it would be great , if u r going to stick with a "short' dragon, to make the body thicker

hard pallete to work huh

I know! Leafs shouldn't make shadow...
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Quote Amorphous Replybullet Posted: 29 January 2008 at 2:47pm
@BluWriter:
Thanks!
 
@Bifur?
Wha..?
If you are talking about the one at the top of the page, the very first one, I'm not going back there...
 
EDIT: I think this might be finished, but if people think I still need work on this, then I'll continue on this.


Edited by Amorphous - 29 January 2008 at 3:41pm
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Quote Blu Replybullet Posted: 29 January 2008 at 4:00pm
I think Bifur is saying that your dragon isn't super long (an example of Haku from Spirited Away), and is just suggesting making the body thicker because it's not super long.
Personally, I like it how it is, but I dunno for sure... XD;
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Quote Larwick Replybullet Posted: 29 January 2008 at 4:15pm
Just to note, i still think his neck is too thin in comparison to his head. The curves and angles of the body are still also far too jerked. Only my opinion though. :)
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Quote Hatch Replybullet Posted: 29 January 2008 at 4:16pm
Mine too.
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Quote Amorphous Replybullet Posted: 29 January 2008 at 4:49pm
Okay, then.
 
But....does anyone have any tips to draw curves? I want to learn something from this, and if anything, it'll be how to make curvy shapes without it looking too jerky.
 
 
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Quote Kee Replybullet Posted: 29 January 2008 at 4:54pm
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Quote Hatch Replybullet Posted: 29 January 2008 at 4:59pm
I don't think you can get a much better lesson than thesalus' edit. :o

Notice dow he deliberately breaks the outline in certain spots, and uses more gradual "stairsteps".
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Quote Amorphous Replybullet Posted: 29 January 2008 at 5:15pm
@Hatch:
Thanks. I've applied his methods to my new edit.
 
@Larwick:
After you wrote that, I've noticed the jerkiness of the dragon's body as well.
 
Anyways, here's the new update (with a thinker neck and curvier lines)
I'm thinking of adding feathers to the tail, but I'm not sure...
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Quote purpletree Replybullet Posted: 30 January 2008 at 1:04am
pretty good but heres some comments..

the head looks great but the body not so..
your lines are ok.. but its just some parts that look a bit jaggy.
+ the dragon should be a bit fatter....its jsut a bit anorexic... and the tail looks odd... (where the feet end...) and like greenravens refs. (right up in the first few comments) you should make the body have some flamy effeects..etc to it...
the claws / arms are great but jaggy agauin...
i don't know actually. i'm myself not very good at pa but its just wht i think...
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Quote Blu Replybullet Posted: 30 January 2008 at 12:34pm
Oo, that does look better.
Part of his body looks a bit flat... You may want to define it more, as in...make the belly pop out and the spine/back come in a bit more.
 
Regarding purpletree's comment, remember that dragons don't all have to be of the fire element of any element at all. :)
 
Edit: 100th post! XD


Edited by BluWriter - 30 January 2008 at 12:34pm
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Quote Amorphous Replybullet Posted: 30 January 2008 at 12:36pm
@purpletree:
Thanks for the opinion. I don't think I could put in a spiky crest on this dragon's back due to color limitations (as well as personal preference), but I'll look into it to see which parts are jaggy.
 
Or, if you can directly point them out, that will be great.
 
EDIT: I completely missed BluWriter's post...
 
@BluWriter:
Thanks for the pointers. I'll make an update soon on that.
 
EDIT 2:
Updated!


Edited by Amorphous - 30 January 2008 at 5:50pm
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Quote purpletree Replybullet Posted: 01 February 2008 at 12:07am
ok here you go but i still think the body is to thin... but the head is great!
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Quote Kee Replybullet Posted: 01 February 2008 at 10:53am
I love the scales, as everyone else just work on the curves and you wil be done in a few more edits. good luck
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Quote Larwick Replybullet Posted: 01 February 2008 at 11:05am
Hey, just to continue with the whole curves thing...




The areas i've circled are places where the curves are effected and bent.

I've drawn a simple shape on the right to show how i would personally visualise this sort of curve structure. Notice how the curves bend very slowly along the line, think about smoothness. It's not the best example, i looked at it after uploading and saw a subtle kink i made where the lines cross, if i noticed that when sketching i'd have to fix it, but hopefully you understand what i mean.

The dragon is gunna have a spine running throughout it's body, and the areas that i've circled would be where the dragon has broken or twisted bones.

I hope that helps with this piece or your future work. Good luck completing this, it's come a long way. :)
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Quote Kee Replybullet Posted: 01 February 2008 at 11:14am
wow larwick, that was helpfull to me and im not even doing this peice!
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