This thread is for reporting unprofessional behavior for both artists and clients.
This is only meant to help PJ members make their own decisions and do not necessarily mean Pixeljoint has verified these reports beyond some basics.
• Post your grievance here and provide link to project thread and member profile page.
• Give details of incident for PJ staff review. If valid the offending party will be listed in the official list below and if needed banning of the member.
• If you wish to report but not to be publicly listed as a reporter then PM any Mod with your issue. We do prefer transparency and prefer everyone list their name, tho.
• Clients and artists reported here are always welcome to state their side of the story or clarify any incident.


Edited by jeremy - 07 October 2013 at 9:10pm

Thankyou for this wonderful and useful topic!
Here goes:

name of the client: Fresh
Topic: http://www.pixeljoint.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=13129
case:
Made some work for him, finished saturday and sent to him,with no reply I contacted him again and got the exact following answer: "Yes, I have received, I found someone else for the job. I can not accept yours work in comparison, really sorry! :("

Honestly that is not how you deal in business.
First he should have waited and if he thought I was taking took long he should have contacted me to ask how thiongs are going or for an estimated delivery time.
Second he should have contacted me as soon as he found someone else.
Third if not happy with my work he should solve things with me first, as I am always willing to edit and change my work to fit the client´s needs and expectations, which I assume people who worked with me can say for my patience and effort.

Honestly I feel betrayed since I was not informed in time, wasted time and effort which I could have devoted to some other tasks, that was unprofessional and I can´t say someone with that atitude can be trusted. Saying sorry won´t bring back my wasted time.

Hope everyone stay aware of this before working with him :(

name of the client: Qemist
Topic: http://www.pixeljoint.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=13021
case:
Somwhere around that, he hired to finish his mech sprite which in turn was a biogger task than expected as yje mech he made needed some corrections, this took me a week of working and him directing, then he disappears and comes back with that: "Hello Ceci,

sorry for not replying to your mails. Right now I'm looking into a possible scam by someone who was helping me alongside you and I somehow lost trust in working with people on the net. Unlike you I did pay him up in advance and my apologees for not comming out clear as soon as possible. Hence my few harsh emails I sent a few days ago and not replying to your latest emails and works. I did tell you do hold it off for now and not to work on, and I hope you didnt waste your time.

If we decide to continue I am willing to pay up a advance (50%) but right now I want to sort out this scam.

Again, my apologees..

Thanks,"

Refarding have warned me before to hold on things, which he only did after my second day working, he never mentioned the real issue, instead hge came like that "If you arent able to do it please dont waste your time but let me know. I hate to waste your time and not be satisfied in the end. The air shaft thing on the "shoulder" looks really cool together with the lines you did on same the thing."

By that I assume that I should only have stopped if I wouldn´t be able to complete the task, which on his last e mail pasted above, he reconized I could and that he was harsh in doubting my skills from first drafts.

I got everything on my e mail if prints are needed for either cases.

why don´t make the same forum but with recommended/reliable clients/artist?

I had almost an identical experience with Qemist/Leendert Oomen on the same project. Same strange communication, stories, and lack of payment. He apparently had a few of us working at once.

"It has reflected poorly on PixelJoint as a whole as well as its level of unprofessionalism."

Not at all. What do you expect when you hire some random lurker without a gallery or established PJ-history.

I've actually paid people who put out decent work I asked for. One of these is actually Dawnbringer.

When looking at your website I can remember the images but when looking back in my gmail I cant find anything you created for me at all.

I'm dutch and not a native. Communication isnt always easy so maybe thats why we gave up working together. I've paid various artists the amounts they have asked me for. Too bad theres these ghost stories around from artist that dont put in the time and efford you expect them to do.

Other then that as a salesadvisor for kitchens I dont have all the time in the world to reply on emails. I work from monday to sunday and only reply when im off work in the night hours.

If you really finished the product I would have paid. And since I dont see any product and cant remember seeing any I dont think you have?

My point is: If you go and buy a car you're not gonna pay for one that cant even start its engine. If you read Clest his post you can clearly see I pointed out that he probably couldnt fulfill my needs. To be less harsh and to give him direction of what kind of detailed work I was after I told him what I liked about his art.

With all the respect I'm sorry if it didnt work out. Theres quite a few freelancers I have great communications with and have paid for various jobs. Both parties are extremely happy and these ghost stories really make me more then sad.

You can follow the META4 PROJECT here incase you have any doubts. I never used any art from these two guys either.


Also Joshua Astorian didnt deliver me completed work at first. I've actually been in touch with him later and he has done a few commissions for me. Only after he finished them I paid and hes a great artist with great skills. Too bad I didnt have much faith in him before and feel bad for reporting him now.

Hes still reported here and I know why. Communication is hard for him. Hes in the same boat I'm about to be in.


Edited by Qemist - 27 September 2012 at 11:38pm

I'm gonna ask my artists that actually put out decent work that didnt charge for sample art I didnt like to post in my META4 topic. 

The point is that I allready have admitted earlier that I have been a bit sloppy at some point. Wich is because of my job and I should have emailed you with a sorry you didnt make it. The payment just made it seem like you felt you got the job.

Concluding that this subject keeps being brought up and right now I have jobs on hold because I want to pay someone before bringing in new art. I cant have anyone feel like they are not recieving a payment.

Again my apologee for not sending emails. I have been searching for good contacts and communication aswell as improving my own.

Looks like Joshua Astorian is a seasoned scammer.
I have to admit that I paid some money to him, and haven't received anything.

His latest contact details:
Joshua Astorian
Email: joshuaastorian@yahoo.com
Alternate email: joshuastorian@gmail.com
Skype: joshastorian
AIM: joshastorian
MSN Messenger: joshuaastorian@hotmail.com
GTalk: joshastorian@gmail.com

The reason I fell for it was that I did a quick search for his name + email (which he probably changed) and that did not lead me to this page, but to his linkedin profile. For some reason Adam Tierney of Wayforward left Joshua a positive recommendation knowing that Joshua is a fraudster (see http://www.wayofthepixel.net/index.php?topic=8561.0). Because of that recommendation I trusted him.
Also, his linkedin profile incorrectly states that he still works as a freelancer for Wayforward, but that's not the case. I've now contacted them asking to amend this information.

Dear Clest,

I have never been rude in any of my emails. All of the emails sent to you I kept and I just read them back.

As a artist you have to listen to your client. Im sorry to tell you but for some reason I felt like you didnt listen or even tried to understand me.

You where going to improve the mech I concepted. At first things seemed to go the right direction until it only got worse and worse because you didnt listen.

The end result made by someone else is exactly what we needed for around same price you where asking without too many issues what so ever.

And please.. if that what you sent me on the mail costs you a week then hiring you as a artist would cost me a fortune..

This is you trying to improve my art (you drew a few lines on the body shapes and changed a few colours.. thats all)

Here is the improved art we use today and this was what we where aiming for

Please stop to bring me and the META4 project down by bringing up the fact that you didnt get the job.

We have paid artists many times before and just like all the others you did some small work to audition / qualify for a job and you didnt make it.

Better luck next time!


Edited by Qemist - 09 December 2012 at 11:44pm

When I first started commissioning work I would pay the entire amount upfront. Then I had an immature artist not read the details of one of my requests and then refused to redo it, oh well it was only a $75USD loss(He created an image of a modern city with skyscrapers instead of a fantasy village :/)

I pay half before and half on completion now.

I recently i tried to work as a freelance artist, but I have surprised the amount of people looking for a pixel artist and do not value their work.

Customer Name: Ssunhttp://www.pixeljoint.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=17433

He needed 48 sprite, for your game(based on hunter x hunter game),I was in charge of the 24 sprite, while other pixel artist was responsible for the other 24 sprite.

Both of us would pay $ 100 usd for the job, but he repented, he did not want to have problems with copyright.

The problem is that, would not buy the sprite hunter x hunter and he decided to change the character sprite by others.

He has asked me that instead of the characters in hunter x hunter, wanted to make him 10 beasts (sprite with 4 directions each) and 10 rare items(that was random without specifications).

I cashed it for $5 usd for each spite (four directions), which is cheaper than a Pixel artist can charge(In total it would be $ 50 usd).

But he refused and wanted me to pay for each sprite $ 1 USD, which in total would be $ 20 usd.

I tried to negotiate the total was $35 USD, but to no avail, he said he only had $ 20 usd, so I did not accept.

The case in point is that there are people on the forums, that your first offer you get an acceptable value, but half the work done, change their minds.

Maybe there are customers who think that because I'm a Latino, my price for my work should be smaller than other artist,but actually the value of my work is like any artist, anywhere in this small world.

Regularly i charge for sprite $5 USD, $15 for Background, and $20 USD for animation or $15 usd per hour.

How can someone who can provide 100 USD ends up wanting to pay less than agreed?.

For clients and pixel artist is best read this article written by Adam Atomics:

http://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/AdamSaltsman/20090724/2571/Pixel_Art_Freelance_Best_Practices__Guidelines.php

Cheers!!

Edited by Pixelart_kid - 02 December 2013 at 12:16pm

I've had the displeasure of being stiffed out of money by my recent client Brandon Stone (email addy is beeblicon@gmail.com).

Brandon didn't say where he found my portfolio, but it was most likely these forums or Pixelation's forums so I wanted to give everyone a heads up, as he is likely out searching for a new artist now.

I had a contract in place (which he signed) that stated I would be paid a certain hourly fee and once these assets were delivered along with the invoice, full payment would be required. He received these assets and my invoice, then he stated he was "not paying [me] a dime." He also claimed "your lucky i dont sue for your verbally abusive harassment." What was this verbal abuse he speaks of? I told him I "dodged a bullet with this one." (referring to working with him)

Brandon does not care that a contract is legally binding. The amount that is owed to me is not enough to warrant taking him to court, so I will have to just eat the losses. Be careful this doesn't happen to you also!

Avoid working with Brandon Stone at all costs!

Not sure why but I really enjoy reading this thread lol

@Thu Do you even gave you an advance payment?.

I've been a freelance graphic designer for many years now, though I work on Logos/Flyers and the like, the mechanics of freelance business still apply here.

A) It's ok to do a couple of 'example' designs, maybe 1 or 2 designs per the clients specs (if they don't like it, you can always use it in your portfolio anyways.)

B) You should ALWAYS get 50% down payment on a contracted job. Once they say "Yes, I'd like to hire you for the job" You should immediately mention that you require 50% down payment, this way you know your time is valued, even if they back out in the end, you still put in time and effort and should be compensated for such. Any client that isn't ok with that isn't worth your time, as they are likely just fishing for ideas to steal, or will just give you a hard time in payment anyways.

C) Don't cut yourself short. As an artist, and especially if you have a strong portfolio, you should have a general concept of the value of your time. Be clear and honest with your clients, and discuss your expectations as well as theirs, to ensure that you're all on the same page. Clear and concise communication is important in the beginning stages of contracted art.

I Would say get a written contract as well, but I rarely do. With a 50% down payment, and clear email discussion of each parties expectations, you'll have enough of a 'written contract' to cover yourself should legal issues arise (breach of contract, ect).

I feel it is important as an artist to respect your trade, and to value your time, as your time IS valuable.

Above I read something about "Not buying a car if it won't start" and that's a very different ideal than working with art, and therefor a poor analogy. Artists put in TIME, TIME has VALUE.

remember artists: respect your craft and value it as it should be valued.

EDIT** A couple other things I thought about after writing this which are important:

Always put a watermark on your designs (Even if you've received a down payment) and never deliver the final designs unwatermarked until you've received your full payment :)

Edited by phraktol - 22 December 2013 at 2:46pm

I've been working with my employer for the last 2 years.
with out inconviniences. It's hard to find good artists and employers as well when it comes to freelance contracts. but judging by your coments you tryed to work with some one who probably thinks tomuch of it self and gets pissed when some one else doesn't agree.

that's why experiences should allways be asked for with references included if you plan to pay for work.

sometimes i feel that people here think cuz it's pixel art it shouldn't be taken seriously or sometimes employers see it as someone who does it as a hobby. but the truth is that some of us make a living out of pixel art and those someones have work feedbacks, resumes, portafolios and take their work with seriousness ,word and respect.

Like me

I posted a job offer. Joshua Astorian was one of the people who replied to me. Naturally, I was very impressed by his portfolio. However, before handing over my cash I decided to look around for his name, also noticing the one reply to my thread. Any success stories with this guy recently? I know he was homeless about six years ago. Whilst I can't say he is financially stable, I can say that he seems to be doing a lot better now and that he might be a "house husband". He seems to stay at home a lot, therefore he currently has no excuse to not be punctual.

I'm still worried about paying the guy even though his work is excellent. Are people still calling him a scammer? I really do want to hire the guy, but I certainly have the right to ask about this and also to deny upfront payment. He'd have to take my word on this, because it seems a lot of unsatisfied customers took his.

Well, a little persistence and posturing paid off, and I've resolved my issue. Again, don't be stupid like me and get it in writing before you start producing...   

Edited by nvision - 28 April 2014 at 12:59pm

Name of the client: DutchPottery / Kevin de Ruiter <kevin-deruiter@live.nl>/ Skype ID: kevin.de.ruiter
Topic: [PAID"> Looking for a long term pixel artist.
Case:I've agreed to his terms in working $10/hour since 7/17 to 7/14. I've make note to myself and him also how many hours a day I've spent working on his art request. We were all communicating intensely via Skype messages and e-mails until he decided to disappear without any notice starting from Saturday 7/12. He did not reply to my e-mails, not even replying to Skype messages, not to mention didn't answer my Skype calls also. Just being silent all of a sudden. He's online on Skype but always using 'away' status. But sometimes changed to 'away (on a mobile device)'. I know he's online but no word comes from him regarding our agreed work. Then I billed him via PayPal, sent him an invoice he should have paid for work I've did for him in the past 8 days (7/7 to 7/14). But my PayPal invoice was canceled by him, and he put a note in the canceled invoice:
Note from Kevin de Ruiter
"I have always had good
intentions, however after you've ignored my pleas about changing things
about the base, such as it's skin tone I wasn't satisfied, and I let you
know that. Yet you continued and somehow magically spent 40 hours on
something I wasn't satisfied with. Not only was I not satisfied with the
skin tone, but also not with the animations.

I'm starting to doubt whether that portfolio is really yours or not,
because I dont think so.

I'm afraid that I'm not going to pay 440,- for something thats not only
lacking quality, but also something I wont ever use. You also ignored my
pleas, and I find this a bit of a scam if I must be honest.

Hope I've informed you enough and I hope both of us can move on with our
lives."

Then when I checked back on my Skype, he already removed me from his contact list, without even said anything, though he was always online on Skype all this time until he canceled my invoice and send me that note.I'm shocked and puzzled. For those days I've worked with intense communication, he did not complain about anything. But keep changing his opinion every single day, keep me doing a new pixel base every time he already approved the base on the previous day. And without any communication or explanation he just decided on his terms that I sucked, he was tricked and will not going to pay me for all that work he put me through. He was also posting the job offers in Pixelation (wayofthepixel.net) by the name: Dutch
Thread link:
[URL=http://wayofthepixel.net/index.php?topic=16855.0][PAID] Looking for a pixel artist. URL]
I will open everything to moderators regarding my e-mail conversation and Skype message archive if needed.



Edited by furansu - 18 October 2014 at 6:52am

Hi,
on the other hand it is hard for a student like me to get any with graphic/design related things paid.
 I would be very happy to design a small simple  image (640x480 max)  even if it take me some hours. I would  accept pay after deliviering the image.

And i also have to say that that some ( i hope few) poeple who do post job offers here, even small ones don`t respond even if its  unpaid .

CV is not so an good idea. You do know why. You  schouldn' t judge the persons by their CVS and their former experience. I do know some non pixel artist with experience, and their artwork is not getting better with time. However the persons who make the job offers could post their CV if they want to , to prove that they are serious.

regards bluedxca93

Client: Mawd A.K.A. Kyle Hagen
Details: Did not pay for commissioned work
Thread: http://www.pixeljoint.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=19684&KW=

I waited two months since the end of my work. In this time I sent him e-mails that he just ignored. I don't know if he got the work from something else too, because he don't answer my mails.

I am a very kind person but I wanted at least to know why I wasted these hours of work...

Client: Droth (signed emails as Nick)
Email:Nooam 'ra <insidious.droth@gmail.com>
Forum Thread(s): Seems to have disappeared from forums.
TL;DR: Did not pay for delivered work or give feedback and then disappeared.

Started PM
He wanted me to work on an Orc Portrait and 100 animation frames. He asked for a price which I quoted to him based on an hours breakdown. He did not negotiate or otherwise question my quote, but had me start working. No timeline was suggested.

3/15 - sent a page of a variety of best portrait drawings as he had not given much direction.

Response:
"Those are some great sketches, and I had a hard time choosing which one I liked most!
Number 5 would probably suit the game best, so I'll go with that."

3/22 - sent an about 2/3 complete large pixel portrait to show progress.

Response:
"This is really coming together nicely, I am so impressed! I think the background would be better if it was transparent, but I could always change that to save you the hassle. Everything you're doing is great, so just go ahead with whatever you have in mind for the armour, as you probably have more of an idea.
Keep up the great work!
Excited to see what you come up with."

3/24 - sent completed portrait

Response:
"Thanks, this looks perfect!
I can't wait for the small character version."

4/1 - sent an email to him asking for direction regarding the sprite. Did not receive a response.

4/7 - sent him an email stating I was going to go on ahead with a variety of experiment styles since he hadn't asked I aim for any specific sprite style(s).

4/9 - delivered a variety of drawings of different proportions and styles.

Response:
"Sorry that I haven't been contacting you recently. I've been caught up with some work I needed to do.
As for the designs, I really like number two.
This is the first sprite that is going to be done, so I don't know how many pixels it should overlap, I was hoping you could use your knowledge."

etc etc...

"I love how this is coming along!"

"I see, you are correct. I say keep the head how big it was."

through 4/21 - sent emails back and forth as I completed animations to clarify various things.

Response:
"These are exactly what I had in mind thanks! Looking forward to the finished product.
It's just a face wince.
Good idea with the side view, I hadn't thought of that."

4/29 - he emailed me as below...

"I haven't heard from you for a while.
I really love what you've done so far and if you could add it in to a big sheet, preferably the template I sent you to test would be brilliant.
I may even be able to give you access to the game if you would like."

4/29 - responded same day to give him updates and attached image progress

5/5 - sent him more updates and questions for next frames

5/6 - he sent an email to me
"Very busy with work right now. Just saying I got the emails and I'm replying as soon as I can."

5/14 - I asked about the possibility of him paying me the first half of our agreed amount, or what he might consider fair, as I'd delivered the large portrait and a chunk of the animation frames.
I asked for more information about the game.

5/20 - sent him an update with nearly all animation frames complete minus any feedback or tweaks. Asked for him to contact me with any edits he felt things needed so I could finalize the frames.

5/27 - sent him another update with lots of polish fixes.
Asked him to contact me and insinuated it was a bit unprofessional to disappear for 3+ weeks and if he had a problem he needed to let me know. Also asked for another contact that he would check regularly if he wasn't able to check on email regularly.

I've had no response from him since the quick email on 5/6/15. I'm hoping he responds, but I have no idea whether he's extremely busy or just decided to skip out on the large amount of money that he'd owe me for the work. As his forum threads have disappeared I'm afraid he might have just skipped out? I'll be quite happy to take this down if he responds, but felt at this point I should post here.

I think I get all of them...

Client: "Heali" (Matt Grey)
Email: <matt.epimetheus@gmail.com>
Forum Threads:
Related thread...
http://pixeljoint.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=24205
Other Heali threads...
http://pixeljoint.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=24456
http://pixeljoint.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=23781

********************************

I spoke with him via forum messages and then email chain and discussed a pricing which he said was a little steeper than he expected, but he was sure it would be fine.

I completed a couple of things for him to show that I could deliver solid assets. Then when I asked for a list of work so I could complete things quickly, and attempted to discuss how he would pay me...he disappeared.

I haven't heard from him in over a month.

Related art:

Updated someone else's female ninja head art for him (he said his previous artist had gone on maternity leave)
http://s3.postimg.org/8bnp1dg8z/headfix2_display_4x.png

Created a shogun helm, gas mask combo with other suggested futuristic reference from him.
http://s7.postimg.org/ymusfghiz/Hat_Template2_4x.png

I also completed related sketches and color comps.

Emails are available if anyone wants further proof.

Not really a grievance but I didn't really know where else to post this.
I would have posted this in the topic in question but I didn't want to come across as confrontational

I've noticed recently that there has been a lot of 'bumping' in the portfolio sub-forum.
I fully understand that if you work full-time as a freelance artist then you need all the jobs you can get, and so you will often update your portfolio, but bumping your topic just to put it back at the top of the feed seems a little disrespectful to other artists posting their portfolios.

I would say a portfolio update once a week seems a little excessive, although understandable, but a topic bump everytime you see someone else has jump above you in the feed is a little rude.