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skittle
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Quote skittle Replybullet Topic: Another floating island
    Posted: 12 May 2013 at 10:48am
I can't figure out how to make the tree look like it's being ruffled by the wind. As you can see I have kinda tried to do it but it looks wierd :/
Any help will be greatly appreciated




One thing I want to mention is that I drew the line art on paper and then scanned it. I'm not sure if this is considered against the rules though.

Edited by ADrawingMan - 18 May 2013 at 10:21am
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Quote Raf Replybullet Posted: 12 May 2013 at 10:49am
The pic won't load
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Quote skittle Replybullet Posted: 12 May 2013 at 10:52am
ah, yeah I had this problem too and I'm trying to fix it. ;_;.
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Quote Andreonh Replybullet Posted: 12 May 2013 at 10:52am
You need to update your DropBox permissions on that file so everyone can see it.
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Quote jalonso Replybullet Posted: 12 May 2013 at 2:26pm
This is a great looking image and nicely laid out.
 
but...
 
...you are not ready for this size at all. Reduce by 70% AND then begin. You simply haven't mastered some essentials and basics that would be required here.
This piece can certainly teach you a lot because its going to require patience and dedication. Go slow and post lots of updates. Be ready to redraw parts as you pick up knowledge and tips from all. When something is said and you are not clear ask and ask again. Don't worry about who says what, anyone who takes time to comment has something to offer so be open.
 
Lastly, get yourself an imgur.com account. Image hosting is easy, pixel friendly and works nice with Pixeljoint.
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Quote skittle Replybullet Posted: 12 May 2013 at 2:41pm
Thank you for the suggestion, I think I'll heed your advice!
I think my next project will be a set of castles. I'm definitely gonna come back to this piece when I improve though. Thanks for the response!

I'm just curious but my artistic skills haven't always been the best, could that be what is affecting my pixel ling skills? From what I've seen from most of the artists on here they seems to be good at art in general.

Edited by ADrawingMan - 12 May 2013 at 2:46pm
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Quote jalonso Replybullet Posted: 13 May 2013 at 5:50am
Originally posted by ADrawingMan

...I think my next project will be a set of castles. I'm definitely gonna come back to this piece when I improve though...
 
This is a terrible habit and the single most destructive thing any artist can do. Its cool to have ideas in mind for future work and they are great to have for those times we get a block. Write them down or remember them and think about them occasionally but DO NOT start something then get another idea and start that. This leads to nothing getting done.
You have a solid idea here so make it a goal to work on it and learn as you go. You can always revisit or remake at a later date. Many do this and its great fun. Just reduce the canvas here to a size you can handle and where you can focus on coloring and the smaller things.
 

Originally posted by ADrawingMan

...curious but my artistic skills haven't always been the best, could that be what is affecting my pixel ling skills? From what I've seen from most of the artists on here they seems to be good at art in general.
 
Some have natural abilities others have to work harder. We are all unique and make pregress in unique ways. Very few are born with great artistc vision and the ability to realize their art. It takes work and deication and most importantly it takes patience.
Regardless of art styles, pixelart is a great style because it forces you to be dedicated, controlled and delibarate. This will help in all other art styles and is the reason I think its a great style. Master, or at least conquer the basics in pixelart and you'll have the required tools to excel in other forms.
If art is your thing and you are passionate about it then practice all you can. Work out design issues in your head and on paper/compy as often as you can. If you can afford it get educated but if you can't then don't sweat it and keep practicing, learning on your own and always seeking ways to expand your artistic ways.
 
----
So... reduce that image and get crackn'!!! Post updates often and don't give up. That castle can wait.
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Quote skittle Replybullet Posted: 13 May 2013 at 1:00pm
Alrighty! I think I'll get on it immediately!
I'm doing just the tree right now and nothing else (no towers or anything). Though I'm not sure if it is too big (450 x 539). Though I could of course do the towers first and then the tree but what do you think I should do first?
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Quote Raf Replybullet Posted: 13 May 2013 at 1:23pm
I think it's as Jalonso said: Resize the pic to make it smaller. This big requires way much more details, and rustling leaves are tricky business. If the entire image is smaller, you'll be able to get away with adding less detail.
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Quote skittle Replybullet Posted: 13 May 2013 at 1:33pm
Oh... I see (:L).

Edited by ADrawingMan - 13 May 2013 at 1:32pm
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Quote jalonso Replybullet Posted: 14 May 2013 at 6:06am
Originally posted by ADrawingMan

...what do you think I should do first?...


This is far too personal. You have to find your own way and see what works for you and is most comfortable.

I would however consider starting with the rocks underneath the island and the trunk of tree as they are the harder surfaces to create and will make or break the whole scene. There are lots of great refs in the gallery if you need to study these textures. While you may worry about the wind in the tree canopy that is actually not that tough to convey so don't tie yourself down.
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Quote CraftyPixel Replybullet Posted: 14 May 2013 at 9:12pm
- Cute clean style, but it's way too huge! If you're going to approach learning the tree's structure I'd recommend starting a little smaller :P -

Made a small edit for you :)




Study Details :P
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Quote jalonso Replybullet Posted: 15 May 2013 at 2:48pm
I would go even smaller than that so that you can ficus on technique.
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Quote CraftyPixel Replybullet Posted: 15 May 2013 at 4:11pm
- Mmm... Technique doesn't necessarily mean size. I  know it's seen like that in the pixel joint community by majority, but in general... not so much. For example : http://www.pixeljoint.com/pixelart/61838.htm

Which is greater in size than even his original pixel size...

I think he just needs to study in general, which isn't bad, it just says there's always something to work on :P
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Quote skittle Replybullet Posted: 15 May 2013 at 6:16pm
Here's my newest version so far, not much but it is a start. I resized it a bit (I could possibly make it smaller) and did simple colouring in


I was thinking of making gears coming out of the island, thats what those wierd things at the bottom are :L.
@CraftyPixel
Whoa, extremely beautiful!
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Quote skittle Replybullet Posted: 15 May 2013 at 6:24pm
I was thinking that maybe I'm being to careful of how I go about making my pieces. I think that maybe I'm possibly being to precise even when my piece is just in its first stage. I think that I'm worrying to much about how clean it should look and that is possibly restraining myself?
After seeing CraftyPixels edit I saw how everything looked very carefree and flowy and not at all very restrained by black lines and such which is what I'm doing.
Maybe I should try to avoid black lines and not view them as a boundary of where the colours should go.
Erm, I'm not sure if I'm explaining it very clearly :/.

Edited by ADrawingMan - 15 May 2013 at 6:27pm
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Quote skittle Replybullet Posted: 15 May 2013 at 7:01pm
kk, here's my newest WIP with me not being restricted to black lines (looks kind of similar to CraftyPixel, )





I'm kind of excited :).

edit: Added gears

Edited by ADrawingMan - 15 May 2013 at 7:15pm
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Quote ultimaodin Replybullet Posted: 15 May 2013 at 8:22pm
Looking much better. remove those black wind lines though. 
The world is but a shadow of emotion, cast in shades of grey.
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Quote jalonso Replybullet Posted: 16 May 2013 at 6:55am
Originally posted by CraftyPixel

- Mmm... Technique doesn't necessarily mean size. I  know it's seen like that in the pixel joint community by majority, but in general... not so much. For example : http://www.pixeljoint.com/pixelart/61838.htm

Which is greater in size than even his original pixel size...

I think he just needs to study in general, which isn't bad, it just says there's always something to work on :P


Of course it does not matter but for new pixel pushers reducing the canvas allows for more dedicated pixelling and the ability to still see the 'whole' when working zoomed in.
Your example is a rather poor example because it takes advanced dedication and perseverance to make a piece like that and as Elk states in the description, "Overall the total span was half a year, 410~ pure work hours."
New pixelpushers would most likely get bored, lose interest or simply get frustrated following that route. It makes far more sense to work as small as possible and grow the canvas as the experience grows. I've come to this by seeing so many new members join, begin to pixel, aim far too high then fall on their ass.
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Quote skittle Replybullet Posted: 16 May 2013 at 12:13pm
I'm trying out dithering to see how it'll look.



@Jalonso
Hm, I see what you and it makes perfect sense but maybe I should try doing it at this size because it may help bring me out of my comfort zone?

@ultimaodin
Thank you, and fixed!

I think my next step is gonna be comparing how the simple dithering looks vs. no dithering

Edited by ADrawingMan - 16 May 2013 at 12:14pm
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Quote skittle Replybullet Posted: 17 May 2013 at 10:48am
I was working on the towers today...

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Quote AtskaHeart Replybullet Posted: 17 May 2013 at 12:08pm
Totally agree with jalonso. I've been a teacher of Pixel Art in the university and noticed this very same problem. I finally had set obligatory reduced sizes for all the works since nobody would be able to actually work on the pixel level properly and finish the whole piece (which leads to frustration).

Elk's works shouldn't be taken as an example, he's rather unique for his extreme patience and we shouldn't expect new pixel artist to be like him.
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Quote skittle Replybullet Posted: 17 May 2013 at 12:38pm
But is this really considered too big? I mean it is quite smaller when compared to the original.

Most of my island up to this point have been considerably smaller than this one which is why I'm doing one at this size.
I wouldn't really mind resizing it more but what would be a good size for someone of my skill level?

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Quote jalonso Replybullet Posted: 17 May 2013 at 12:47pm
I can see you are hesitant and as always you decide whatever you wish. Its your art and your vision and anything ever said to you is advice and suggestion for you to consider or ignore, k.

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Quote skittle Replybullet Posted: 17 May 2013 at 12:53pm
I think I'm gonna go with the smaller one and as you said next year a bigger version. My skill level right now actually may in a way ruin the bigger version.
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Quote jalonso Replybullet Posted: 17 May 2013 at 12:59pm
Originally posted by ADrawingMan

... My skill level right now actually may in a way ruin the bigger version...

Its not that it will ruin it its that you'll likely get frustrated and impatient. In the small size you can focus, concentrate and learn little tricks of all sorts. You have pixelart techniques to learn PLUS general design, lighting and coloring skills to develop. Consider this an exercise in your artistic development. In about a year revisit and improve and then after that remake in your original size.

Begin by generally laying out the colors as you have then add the lighting roughly and leave detailing for later on. I would say that what will make this image work or fail will be the rocks and the tree trunk so whenever youare ready to begin detailing begin with those. The treetop, sky and other stuff is easy so leave for later on in the WIP process.

Post lots of updates for constant feedback. k.
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Quote AtskaHeart Replybullet Posted: 17 May 2013 at 1:02pm
Your first image was 637 × 877 = 558649 pixels, which is insane xD!

Anyway, your piece looks awesome and will still look awesome even if it's way smaller.

Edited by AtskaHeart - 17 May 2013 at 1:02pm
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Quote skittle Replybullet Posted: 17 May 2013 at 1:09pm
I'll start on the trunk immediately! I'll try adding little flowers and such later too.
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Quote jalonso Replybullet Posted: 17 May 2013 at 1:16pm
OT:
Whenever I begin any pixel the way I determine what the canvas size will be is to determine what is the smallest item in the pixel that I want to read clearly and then base everything off that. When I reduced your image I can see that even the mushrooms will read clearly at that size so thats about the size I would go with. If, for example, you wanted to place a figure in the window and have the character have some expression then I would go much bigger and begin pixelling the character to make sure it will all work. If I wanted an angry worm in the root of the tree then I would go with your original size.
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Quote skittle Replybullet Posted: 17 May 2013 at 1:38pm
Ah, so it's kind of like thinking ahead or planning ahead. Funny thing is I've actually never thought of something like that (thinking ahead).

@AtskaHeart
Thanks! I'm gonna try to make this piece veery purrty.
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Quote jalonso Replybullet Posted: 17 May 2013 at 1:49pm
Lesson #1 - Planning - 
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Quote skittle Replybullet Posted: 17 May 2013 at 4:52pm
Here it is so far!

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Quote jalonso Replybullet Posted: 17 May 2013 at 8:53pm
Looking good and I like the square canvas too. This gives it a more airy and floaty setting.

I think you should at this point rough in your major lighting too. The light is generally coming right to left which is cool and you generally have everything in its place. However, the turret with the cannon should be casting its shadow into the foliage more that that so that its set in depth. The front tower will cast some shadow too but less than the far back one. The lower mushrooms and gears will need to follow this too but you don't have to worry about that now because your palette is not yet established.

Start pixelling and detailing the rocks and tree trunk using the colors you now have (these can and will be tweaked later) and use as many as you can in both to conserve colors but have at least one shade in each area that will give the illusion that each have their own unique ramp. For example use a purplish shade to shadow the rocks (the sky being blue casts its color on this surface). Then perhaps use a grey/neutral for the trunk. These 2 'unique' shades are the right hue/shade when they serve as the basis of the ramp for the cannon and even the gears which you can build after the base of the rocks and trunk are set.
If you don't understand something just ask, k.


Edited by jalonso - 17 May 2013 at 8:55pm
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Quote skittle Replybullet Posted: 18 May 2013 at 9:11am
Here's question 1.
Should there be a dark outline around the tree? Such as a dark purple or dark brown?

And question 2 ;)
Which lighting makes more sense? The one on the left or the one on the right?





Edited by ADrawingMan - 18 May 2013 at 9:18am
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Quote AtskaHeart Replybullet Posted: 18 May 2013 at 9:30am
Left for me, but I would also add a small light on the left face of the island. It would be nice to see a three point lighting on this illustration:
http://bit.ly/10BZWHN
http://bit.ly/12jTtiO

It's not only nicer but more natural :p.
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Quote skittle Replybullet Posted: 18 May 2013 at 9:35am
Neat idea, I think I'm gonna test that to see how it'll look.
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Quote skittle Replybullet Posted: 18 May 2013 at 10:08am
I was thinking about what you said and there's something that I've run across.


Wouldn't it look kinda funny with 2 light sources?Everything that's dark on the right of the island would suddenly become light... maybe I'm not thinking about it properly.

@Jalonso
I'm working on a wood texture, am I doing it right?

Erm, I organized my dropbox and that in turn changed the paths of all the files... so all the pics above this will not be seen :/

Edited by ADrawingMan - 18 May 2013 at 10:22am
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Quote skittle Replybullet Posted: 18 May 2013 at 10:34am
Added rocks! :P

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Quote AtskaHeart Replybullet Posted: 18 May 2013 at 2:02pm
A fast example about what I was talking about:

The second light source is a small one, with a blueish color. Imo, it adds some depth that may look better if it's applied to textures :p. I love the wood btw!!

Edited by AtskaHeart - 18 May 2013 at 2:05pm
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Quote skittle Replybullet Posted: 18 May 2013 at 4:52pm
Too, it does look nice! Would you mind if I used this little edit and added to it?
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Quote AtskaHeart Replybullet Posted: 18 May 2013 at 5:02pm
Sure, go ahead! :p But you should also apply the back light on the trunk and towers.
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Quote jalonso Replybullet Posted: 19 May 2013 at 5:59am
Originally posted by ADrawingMan

... Should there be a dark outline around the tree? Such as a dark purple or dark brown?


Visible lineart is a design choice only you can make. I personally, would have no sharp lineart in this scene but maybe one single outer lineart may work?

All is looking good so far :)
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Quote skittle Replybullet Posted: 19 May 2013 at 12:52pm
I'm gonna crop it when I'm done, don't worry :P.
I'm gonna try to fix up the top of my tower, the cannon and the clouds.

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Quote CraftyPixel Replybullet Posted: 19 May 2013 at 12:58pm
- Looks good overall, but I think you should go back to the smaller canvas size . you're making yourself do too much work! o.o -
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Quote skittle Replybullet Posted: 19 May 2013 at 1:20pm
I wasn't planning to really work on all the clouds, I think that I just got a tad bit carried away when I started on them ;). But you're right, cropping now makes more sense.

I also wanna mention that the colors that you used for the clouds in your edit are the colors that I'm using for my clouds.

Edited by ADrawingMan - 19 May 2013 at 1:21pm
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Quote skittle Replybullet Posted: 19 May 2013 at 2:43pm
I think I'm calling it done.
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Quote jalonso Replybullet Posted: 19 May 2013 at 4:02pm
Its ok and gallery worthy and all that stuff, but...
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
... I am very disappointed and will not personally add to the gallery. Another Mod will have to do so.
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Quote skittle Replybullet Posted: 19 May 2013 at 5:08pm
Is it the clouds? What is it that has not met your expectations? If it is the clouds or something else I will gladly try to revise it and add to it more.
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Quote crozier Replybullet Posted: 19 May 2013 at 5:21pm
I think you should continue to work on the highlights and shadows on the top of the tower. They are messy, unrealistic, and should be displaying the curve of the cone. http://www.sketchwiki.com/shading/shading-cone.php
The shading on the cylinder on the towers is also distracting.
The leftmost part of the floating island is kind of funky, also. Not a huge fan of (what I think is) the cog/gears, and mushroom (jetting out of the side).
The greens in this could also have a little more contrast and texture. The lightest green is especially off-putting. Also put some texture in the grass. You mine as well, and the grass could use some work.(its kinda jagged)
The highlight on the brickish tower could also be upped, slightly in size and contrast.
The second lightsource (or whatever is effecting the leftmost side of the tree and land is unnessessary. I would ditch it completely, as it is only adding colors, that you don't need.
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Quote skittle Replybullet Posted: 19 May 2013 at 5:34pm
I'll get to work on the shadows. Though I like the idea of the second light source and I will probably end up keeping it. Thanks for bringing these things to my attention.
Jalonso mentioned the shadows previously but I think I may have forgotten that.
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