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JaumeAlcazo
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Quote JaumeAlcazo Replybullet Topic: Tarot deck
    Posted: 05 February 2020 at 2:35am
Hello,

     I'm upscaling and detailing the cards of this tarot deck by Bobby Frye (CC BY) for the project Morgana (gameplay, Facebook page) which I'm making with PJ member Mrmo Tarius. For some cards and for the spinning animation I'm using this other purchased tarot deck. The cards will be collectible items and *maybe* used in "tarock" card minigame/s.

     I would appreciate some C+C, especially in regards of the palette, reducing the color count and choosing a correct palette that integrates more with Morgana's somber/purpler palette. Thank you in advance. I'll keep editing this post to add the remaining cards, keeping the order:

Minor Arcana:

Wands

1, Ace of Wands:


6 of Wands:


7 of Wands:


10 of Wands:


12, Knight of Wands:


13, Queen of Wands:


Pentacles

1, Ace of Pentacles:


2 of Pentacles:


3 of Pentacles:


5 of Pentacles:


6 of Pentacles


7 of Pentacles:


8 of Pentacles:


9 of Pentacles:


10 of Pentacles:


11, Page of Pentacles:


13, Queen of Pentacles:


14, King of Pentacles:


Swords

1, Ace of Swords:


2 of Swords:


3 of Swords:


5 of Swords:


11, Page of Swords:


12, Knight of Swords:


13, Queen of Swords:


14, King of Swords:


Cups

1, Ace of Cups:


2 of Cups:


3 of Cups:


4 of Cups:


5 of Cups:


7 of Cups:


8 of Cups:


10 of Cups:


11, Page of Cups:


12, Knight of Cups:


13, Queen of Cups:


14, King of Cups:


Major Arcana:

2, The Priestess:


4, The Emperor:


5, The Hierophant:


6, Lovers:


7, The Chariot:


8, Strength:


9, The Hermit:


11, Justice:


12, The Hangman:


13, Death:


14, Temperance:


17, The Star:


18, The Moon:


19, The Sun:


20, The Judgement:


21, The World:
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NancyGold
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Quote NancyGold Replybullet Posted: 07 February 2020 at 9:50am
Original cards were designed for very low resolution. Resizing them blindly ruins the original art. You should instead sit back and re-compose them for higher resolution. Generally, good composition is half of the successful artwork.
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Quote Greycloak Replybullet Posted: 07 February 2020 at 11:26pm
I feel like the originals had a more simple charm to them. The upscaled II card in particular looks way too busy. I would focus more on trying to maintain the style of the originals without adding too many extraneous details. The XVII card is a fairly decent adaptation, but the girl's hair and face could use some work.
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JaumeAlcazo
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Quote JaumeAlcazo Replybullet Posted: 22 February 2020 at 11:39am
Hi, I'm sorry the result or my approach or understanding was not good enough. Despite feeling a bit discouraged nevertheless I want to finish the deck. At least it will be good practice, a starting point or a proxy for better art.

I will as well try to use the criticism to improve already submitted cards.

Here are some new cards. I'm updating the initial post as well, as promised, keeping the order of the deck.

7, The Chariot:


19, The Sun:


2 of cups:


5 of cups:
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NancyGold
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Quote NancyGold Replybullet Posted: 22 February 2020 at 2:02pm
You botched Sun's face expression and it also became hexagonal. Other cards have similar problems, like say lion's wings looking too plain. Clouds are unnatural and don't take perspective into account, while the horizon is non existing, especially on at the last card.

TLDR: I suggest doing some simpler art first, like drawing basic geometric objects at different angles with different textures and light sources.
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JaumeAlcazo
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Quote JaumeAlcazo Replybullet Posted: 23 February 2020 at 1:37am
Oww, that was sharp :( Probably deserved, but hard to process.

I think I'll leave the tarot cards in stand-by for a while and focus in programming the game.

When I recover my mood again will try to revisit this with a fresh and new perspective and see if I can correct the errors and salvage them or if it's better to scrap it all and begin from 0 or commission them to Mrmo with another style, or pick another tarot set with another style. I don't know.

Thanks anyway, it's better to tell the truth even if it hurts than instead featuring the cards in a video without knowing all this problems and making a bad impression there.
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NancyGold
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Quote NancyGold Replybullet Posted: 23 February 2020 at 11:09pm
Oww, that was sharp :(

Sorry. Just stated what I see.
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JaumeAlcazo
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Quote JaumeAlcazo Replybullet Posted: 24 February 2020 at 6:03am
Sorry as well for my part. I'm oversensitive and ego-fragile when it comes to critique and must work harder to accept and embrace it. Please don't refrain from keeping commenting and critizising as it helps to grow and improve. I prefer much this than an empty response (no one commenting) and me believing all is ok and needs no further work.

I decided to not give up on this and to stubbornly keep battling with this and stick with this deck whatever it takes until it reaches enough quality and specially your approval that it is decent enough. I've commited too many hours with this to give up now. It makes more sense to me to work harder on it than picking another set now.

But I need time to rework the cards (I will not start from stratch but I will revisit them).

Meanwhile I post more cards. Please comment on them as well.

From the critiques you made there's one point it is not clear to me, which is the non-existent horizon. Please could you give an example or a quick edit mockup or a crude raw edit on what you mean by that? I'm confused. Do you mean much more portion of the line of the horizon must be seen or that it must be higher or lower? Nevertheless I'll try to come up with something better.

9 of pentacles:


Sword page:


6 of wands:


7 of pentacles:
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Quote AshCrimson Replybullet Posted: 24 February 2020 at 3:30pm
I totally get the desire to resize art and work from there, I've done it, plenty of (much better then me, may i add) artists have done it before but i really do think there is something to be said for working on a blank slate or canvas; even if you don't commit to it, you should try to redo one from scratch and see how it compares to what you've made so far
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NancyGold
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Quote NancyGold Replybullet Posted: 24 February 2020 at 6:12pm
6 of wand horse's cloth is weird. Especially that black color at the bottom right makes it look like there is a hole in the fabric. The raider also has clothes problem.

Usually clothes follow smoothly the geometry of wearer, influenced by gravity, movement and wind, and tend to fold near the bottom, while having some tension at the top.

Horse eye and character eyes and faces in general look too big for your upscaled art.

Original rider's leg was apparently wearing sandal, since the character is roman inspired. And it was drawn at the angle to the viewer, so your leg looks a bit broken now.

Black outlines are not really required all the time. Pillow shading doesn't make art look nice either. In case of outdoor scenes artist must make Sun's position into account.

Here I tried to quick fix that horse card. I haven't fixed leg, head and other anatomy problems.



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Quote Wyk Replybullet Posted: 29 February 2020 at 1:54pm
snv already addressed this in their mock-up of the rider but the main detail that strikes me as awkward with the resizes are the monolithic, 8x2 black eyes on the characters. I think this combined with the relatively square heads with no facial features works counter to the increase in detail you've worked on elsewhere in each piece. I hope you choose to keep working on this, I'm interested to see how these pieces progress.
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JaumeAlcazo
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Quote JaumeAlcazo Replybullet Posted: 26 April 2020 at 2:05pm
I'm still struggling to find time for this, and remote work (and constantly reporting what you are doing to your bosses, they don't trust us) and covid-19 and being quarantined with wife and a 4 year old daughter 24/7 in Spain has not helped. Additionaly we are having another child on october! :) Very good news, but a hell lot of less time and difficult months/years in the future.

I hope we can release video2 gameplay before october and to find some time to keep doing the upscales and using your criticism to improve them. In the meantime I want to share with you a hidden link old video where you can check out more or less how tarot card recollection works in-game. Don't mind the GUI, the icons on top and wallset as this are early tests.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=geVSfggr3kw

(Still haven't found any way to embed Youtube videos here).

snv already addressed this in their mock-up of the rider but the main detail that strikes me as awkward with the resizes are the monolithic, 8x2 black eyes on the characters. I think this combined with the relatively square heads with no facial features works counter to the increase in detail you've worked on elsewhere in each piece.


True, but hard to solve, as I saw the eyes as cartoony and characteristic of this deck, but very interesting opinion. I must figure it out somehow :S

I hope you choose to keep working on this, I'm interested to see how these pieces progress.


Thank you very much. That's the plan :) Sorry for the lack of updates here. I'll do my best to try to keep this updated somehow in the future.

Best regards.
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JaumeAlcazo
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Quote JaumeAlcazo Replybullet Posted: 04 June 2020 at 9:38am
Hii still not addressed your c+c (I will, sorry ) but definetely wanted to shared this one, I worked my ass off on this one, I hope it shows off

At least I took your advice regarding the 8x8 block eyes, and think his face is much better thanks to that.

Meet Jack Sparrow Page of Cups!!!



Keep'em coming! yeah

3 of pentacles:


One more:

King of cups:
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JaumeAlcazo
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Quote JaumeAlcazo Replybullet Posted: 10 June 2020 at 11:43am
Emperor and World Major Arcanas :D

Emperor:


World:
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PC PIXEL
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Quote PC PIXEL Replybullet Posted: 11 June 2020 at 1:35am
I really like these cards.
Really superb.
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JaumeAlcazo
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Quote JaumeAlcazo Replybullet Posted: 14 June 2020 at 10:54am
Originally posted by PC PIXEL

I really like these cards.
Really superb.


Thank you so much :D I keep practising and I feel I'm improving :D

Page of Pentacles:
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JaumeAlcazo
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Quote JaumeAlcazo Replybullet Posted: 18 June 2020 at 5:37am
This one is hard for me to improve it or detail it anymore, any tip?

7 of Cups:


8 of Cups:


Ace of Cups:


The Hangman:
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JaumeAlcazo
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Quote JaumeAlcazo Replybullet Posted: 19 June 2020 at 5:08am
Death:


Queen of Cups:
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JaumeAlcazo
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Quote JaumeAlcazo Replybullet Posted: 26 June 2020 at 3:09am
Major Arcana 9, The Hermit:
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Limes
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Quote Limes Replybullet Posted: 26 June 2020 at 6:53am
The color choice is greatly impacting these tarot's in a negative way, for example the queens chair.

I do like the background to the hermit though.
http://pixeljoint.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=10695
I've read through this a couple times but still don't really understand it. Maybe you'll understand it.
I use GraphicsGale
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JaumeAlcazo
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Quote JaumeAlcazo Replybullet Posted: 13 July 2020 at 11:28am
Originally posted by Limes

The color choice is greatly impacting these tarot's in a negative way, for example the queens chair.

I do like the background to the hermit though.
http://pixeljoint.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=10695
I've read through this a couple times but still don't really understand it. Maybe you'll understand it.


Thanks for the feedback! :)

I tried another hue on the Queen of Cups throne, first purple (not seen here), then settled in grey. I also tried to correct the perspective of the armrests and added a subtle shine to the cup. Also changed the hue and luminance of the cape:



And here are some other pieces, The Priestess:


The Knight of Swords:


10 of Cups:


This last one I feel is too infantile and flat, but I don't know how to correct it yet . Maybe I should rest my eyes from this piece for a while and return to it later to see it with a new perspective.

I thought in doing a coupe of x4 upscales of demo for a stretch goal of the future Morgana Kickstarter. Let's see how it goes. Currently you are seeing x2 upscales. Maybe the task is too daunting, but lets see how the demo x4 cards end up looking and if it is a task worth pursuing for.
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JaumeAlcazo
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Quote JaumeAlcazo Replybullet Posted: 21 July 2020 at 1:25pm
I'm not sure about the colors on this one.

What do you think, any tips on how to improve it or any tips in general?

It evolved wildly from the original by experimenting with hue adjustments in aseprite on the different layers!

What would you change on this one?



3 of Cups:


(Reference)

What do you think on this one?
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JaumeAlcazo
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Quote JaumeAlcazo Replybullet Posted: 22 May 2021 at 11:45am
Still alive!

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JaumeAlcazo
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Quote JaumeAlcazo Replybullet Posted: 23 May 2021 at 9:42am
And kicking:

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JaumeAlcazo
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Quote JaumeAlcazo Replybullet Posted: 10 June 2021 at 11:09am
Still working on it!!! I will never surrender!

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JaumeAlcazo
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Quote JaumeAlcazo Replybullet Posted: 05 August 2021 at 9:59am
Guess who's back?

Major Arcana 6, Lovers:


Minor Arcana, 5 of Pentacles:
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Hapiel
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Quote Hapiel Replybullet Posted: 05 August 2021 at 1:56pm
I don't have any feedback right now, but I'm enjoying following your progress!
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JaumeAlcazo
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Quote JaumeAlcazo Replybullet Posted: 06 August 2021 at 7:47am
Originally posted by Hapiel

I don't have any feedback right now, but I'm enjoying following your progress!


Thank you very much. Comments like this give me strength to carry on!
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JaumeAlcazo
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Quote JaumeAlcazo Replybullet Posted: 08 August 2021 at 11:07am
And some more! I did this one in almost one sitting, something which is unusual for me. I had much fun with this one. Was seeing things constantly. I think I'm improving with antialiasing, avoiding banding, selective outlining and detailing. But palette choosing is crazy, as always, I can't refrain to pick the colors which I feel I need more. I must learn reducing color count (after the crazy palette step, I think it'll work for me).
Any suggestion will be welcome, as always.

After much time of not programming the project, I'm gathering forces to overcome the depression, and the fear of facing the code again. I hope to gain a good pace of work soon. Let's see. It's hard to maintain motivation. And free time, with two little daughters. But I waste free time in other things, I could do more of this with enough force of will.

Minor Arcana, Queen of Pentacles:
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JaumeAlcazo
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Quote JaumeAlcazo Replybullet Posted: 23 October 2021 at 9:42am
WIP, tarot cards repaletted, touched up, and in-game prototype:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J4GKaPjp2BQ

I made the Swords Tarot Wall as a placeholder but I'm liking it so much that I would like to keep it, what do you think on this?
I made the Tarot Wall itself from here: https://theteaguns.itch.io/flat-shaded-low-poly-swords
The Tarot Slot FX is a modified pixel effect bought from here: https://henrysoftware.itch.io/pixel-effects

3 of Swords repalette, and corners transparency for ingame:


Page of Swords, repalette and touched up the face. Corners transparency for ingame:


Opinions and c+c on the vid concept, art, visual FX and audio FX please?
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JaumeAlcazo
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Quote JaumeAlcazo Replybullet Posted: 24 October 2021 at 1:43pm
Restoring and stressing the lost shine in the sword, and detailing a minor shine on the lower sleeve:



Stressing the middle sword shine:

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NancyGold
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Quote NancyGold Replybullet Posted: 27 October 2021 at 6:26am
The original page appears to be walking forward with the sword, while yours stands still with somewhat awkward legs placement, and blander palette make the character blend with background. And there are high contrast plastic or rubber (judging by the sharp specular) mountain(?) behind, replacing clouds. And a puddle of rather bright looking (for this weather) water(?). Also to have shining sword, you need some source of light, while there is none.

Stabbed heart was in front of a waterfall and stormy clouds, but now it is on top of an island with abundance of flowers, and a sea of cubes(?) in front of rather cubic(?) mountains, which are so high contrast, they clash with the sword handles, making them unreadable.

Sorry for harsh criticism, but that is just how I see it.
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JaumeAlcazo
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Quote JaumeAlcazo Replybullet Posted: 12 December 2021 at 9:00am
Some progress. Sorry for the delay.

Major Arcana 18, The Moon:


Changed the setting from daylight to moonlight, as I thought it's more appropiate though the original tarot cards have that setting. It looks better to me with this colors, but I may be wrong, so thats where you reader come with your C+C to help me improve this.

The last frame is a slight repalette to fit more the game's palette, with little to no success..


Sorry for harsh criticism, but that is just how I see it.



Don't worry NancyGold, it helps you thicken your skin to criticism. I can use that, for instance it comes handy when discussing the game in RPG Codex forums (I must answer and upload things there sometime): https://rpgcodex.net/forums/threads/morgana-a-cutesy-lovecraftian-pixel-blobber.126753/

Originally posted by NancyGold

The original page appears to be walking forward with the sword, while yours stands still with somewhat awkward legs placement, and blander palette make the character blend with background. And there are high contrast plastic or rubber (judging by the sharp specular) mountain(?) behind, replacing clouds. And a puddle of rather bright looking (for this weather) water(?). Also to have shining sword, you need some source of light, while there is none.
Stabbed heart was in front of a waterfall and stormy clouds, but now it is on top of an island with abundance of flowers, and a sea of cubes(?) in front of rather cubic(?) mountains, which are so high contrast, they clash with the sword handles, making them unreadable.


I see.. thank you, I mostly agree with that. But I'll review them in the future, there others that need more urgent help/work and also time helps you distantiate from the work done.

Thanks, hope to post more work soon.

Edit:

5 of Pentacles revised palette to fit more with game's palette. This time with more success I may dare to say, at least as it works in-game, hope to post some gameplay when I'm happy with it.

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JaumeAlcazo
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Quote JaumeAlcazo Replybullet Posted: 12 December 2021 at 10:21am
9 of Pentacles review, face detailing (from cartoon to "realist"), background, minor things, and slight repalette at the end:



2 of Pentacles, direct repalette to more somber colors to fit more with the game:


10 of Pentacles, very slight repalette at the end:


7 of Pentacles reviewed:


Page of Pentacles very slight repalette to fit more the game palette:


8 of Pentacles:


1, Ace of Pentacles:


14, King of Pentacles:
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JaumeAlcazo
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Quote JaumeAlcazo Replybullet Posted: 19 December 2021 at 10:05pm
6 of Wands, revised:


7 of Wands:


10 of Wands:


12, Knight of Wands:


13, Queen of Wands:


13, Queen of Swords:
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JaumeAlcazo
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Quote JaumeAlcazo Replybullet Posted: 22 December 2021 at 5:07am
2 of Cups revision:
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Maye
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Quote Maye Replybullet Posted: 22 December 2021 at 9:01am
I never comment here, but just wanna say I follow every one of your updates, keep going.
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JaumeAlcazo
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Quote JaumeAlcazo Replybullet Posted: 13 January 2022 at 11:09am
Originally posted by Maye

I never comment here, but just wanna say I follow every one of your updates, keep going.


Thank you very much :) Everyone of your comments gives me strength to CARRY ON!

6 of Pentacles


Strength:


5 of Swords:


Ace of Swords:


King of Swords:


Temperance:


Ace of Wands:


Chariot revision


CARRY ON! CARRY ON! FOREVER CARRY ON!
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