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RollerKingdom
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Quote RollerKingdom Replybullet Topic: The red Path of Madara Mock up
    Posted: 22 January 2010 at 3:19pm


Well this is just a very early sketch, basically i want to make another moke up but this time with madara (a strongest character from naruto) I got inspired after elf suggested it :)
This time i want to also add a title screen to my mock up..

Let's see how thing will get going after this :) Im sure it will be successful with your contribution of critics and etc! :)
My goal is to have a piece on my gallery with at least 10 faves :) I want make it this one :)
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Quote RollerKingdom Replybullet Posted: 22 January 2010 at 9:24pm


is the outline good? Of course ill be adding the details during the shadings, coloring..
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Quote Atrophy Replybullet Posted: 23 January 2010 at 1:37am
Stance is kinda weird, you should really just start shading, because when you start shading your going to end up changing your lines to make the piece flow more naturally.
Personally when I pixel, I try to stay away from line art, and just draw in values of color. Hopefully you know what I mean.
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Quote RollerKingdom Replybullet Posted: 23 January 2010 at 8:25am
Ya thanks for the tips, when i color and shade it ill post it
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Quote RollerKingdom Replybullet Posted: 23 January 2010 at 9:36am


...?
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Quote NaCl Replybullet Posted: 23 January 2010 at 11:02am
I'd at least get the pose down, and the anatomy solid before you start shading personally. If you want 10 favorites then it's not gonna happen unless the pose and anatomy are balanced/solid. I sort of agree with Atrophy though, try using blocks of solid colors to get the forms down, then adding the actual colors and shadows and highlights on top of that.
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Quote RollerKingdom Replybullet Posted: 23 January 2010 at 3:43pm
Originally posted by NaCl

I'd at least get the pose down, and the anatomy solid before you start shading personally. If you want 10 favorites then it's not gonna happen unless the pose and anatomy are balanced/solid. I sort of agree with Atrophy though, try using blocks of solid colors to get the forms down, then adding the actual colors and shadows and highlights on top of that.


How could i fix it then.. im really weak about anatomy but i still want to try it..
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Quote RollerKingdom Replybullet Posted: 23 January 2010 at 5:14pm
im also trying some texture for the grass..


This is also a preview of the red path




Edited by RollerKingdom - 23 January 2010 at 6:53pm
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Quote RollerKingdom Replybullet Posted: 23 January 2010 at 7:58pm
Fixed lighting on the landscape and fixed arm


Is the grass texture nice?


Edited by RollerKingdom - 23 January 2010 at 8:35pm
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Quote Hatch Replybullet Posted: 23 January 2010 at 8:28pm
Get up and walk around your room. Pause as if you've been frozen in time. Look at yourself in a mirror. Draw your character like that.

Seriously, that is not a frame from any walk cycle. You really need to nail that pose before you go much further.
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Quote RollerKingdom Replybullet Posted: 23 January 2010 at 8:48pm
Does this look much better now?

Legs and new path looking better???



Edited by RollerKingdom - 23 January 2010 at 10:08pm
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Quote RollerKingdom Replybullet Posted: 24 January 2010 at 9:52am

hows the landscape coming?
I am also thinking of adding logs with flowers.

---

SOme people talked about the legs so ill redo it again and try to make it work, also if anyone got tips for the hills look better let me know..
this is the sample of how i plan the background colors to be


Highered legs a bit more and tried giving the hill a most non flat look'???



Edited by RollerKingdom - 24 January 2010 at 11:22am
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Quote jalonso Replybullet Posted: 24 January 2010 at 11:32am
imo, colors are far too unbalanced and saturated.
For example the darkest green should reflect a bit of red in it and would lean into the brown side of green instead of this pure green you now have.

E:
I threw a gradient (NPA) over your art using the darkest red and the lightest green and overlayed it to find the colors. Quick and easy : D





Edited by jalonso - 24 January 2010 at 11:46am
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Quote RollerKingdom Replybullet Posted: 24 January 2010 at 11:38am
Originally posted by jalonso

imo, colors are far too unbalanced and saturated.
For example the darkest green should reflect a bit of red in it and would lean into the brown side of green instead of this pure green you now have.


Hmm can you show me what you meant :S
You don't have to but i just want to understand what you mean..
Im a color noob, anatomy noob, and pixel noob :)
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Quote jalonso Replybullet Posted: 24 January 2010 at 11:47am
Originally posted by jalonso


I threw a gradient (NPA) over your art using the darkest red and the lightest green and overlayed it to find the colors. Quick and easy : D





Edited by jalonso - 24 January 2010 at 11:47am
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Quote RollerKingdom Replybullet Posted: 24 January 2010 at 11:58am
LOl still confused xD
Am i supposed to like use those colors and leave the path green O_o?
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Quote jalonso Replybullet Posted: 24 January 2010 at 12:02pm
No! This was just a way to show you how to find and refine your colors only. This is just a starting point from which to start and then refine individual colors as needed.
For example, one of the browns can be shifted to a redder hue to use for re-coloring the path. I was only concentrating on helping you find your palette.
Take your original. What's the use of that yellow?? It serves no purpose and it doesn't even show so its a wasted color...
By making a cohesive palette you'll be able to AA and smooth anything.


Edited by jalonso - 24 January 2010 at 12:03pm
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Quote RollerKingdom Replybullet Posted: 24 January 2010 at 12:11pm
Lol ill try to do what you are saying..
prob going to be failure but w.e
This is starting to give me headache rather than be something entertaining..
=/
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Quote jalonso Replybullet Posted: 24 January 2010 at 12:16pm
It should be making life easier. Don't be your own stumbling block. Be patient, k.
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Quote RollerKingdom Replybullet Posted: 24 January 2010 at 12:25pm


Idk if this is what you meant :S
is the path palette better?
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Quote jalonso Replybullet Posted: 24 January 2010 at 12:31pm
yup! but incorporate variations of browns (greenish browns and reddish browns...even a grey or 2 that can be used on the character) as you work. Me thinks brown is the key neutralizer shade(s) that will make everything work and tie in.
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Quote RollerKingdom Replybullet Posted: 24 January 2010 at 12:36pm
Use those examples of browns: Greenish, reddish and grey on the rest of the piece of just for the path ;o?
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Quote jalonso Replybullet Posted: 24 January 2010 at 12:43pm
Think of the palette as organic, so any color can be used anywhere at all. That's the key to a refined palette. For example, an individual shade is chosen not because it works in one place, but because it works ALL OVER the place.
You can choose a shade and work with it but you can come back and refine it later when working in other areas. Just be patient, step back look at your work and dive in again.

*Its football time so I'm logging off for now. Keep at it and keep showing progress :)


Edited by jalonso - 24 January 2010 at 12:43pm
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Quote RollerKingdom Replybullet Posted: 24 January 2010 at 12:49pm


I change the grass color.. when you're back let me know if it's better
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Quote RollerKingdom Replybullet Posted: 24 January 2010 at 2:32pm

What do you think of the landscape?
I believe im done with the grass.. now just need to add some more details to it by adding some flowers and log..
then gotta rework on the character, then sky, then the writing
*wowz..



Thanks Jalonso with the palette help, what program was that?
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Quote RollerKingdom Replybullet Posted: 24 January 2010 at 4:12pm
This is a sketch for the clouds.. I know i need to tone it down a bit because the writing will be white with some other color..
(dont even know how im going to write this lol)
but what do you think of the cloud format? First time going deep with clouds detail
however i need some help finding a good palette for the cloud that wont take too much attention from the title of the game.
Btw sorry if im posting too much :) it's something that i certainly want to finish :D



p.s: Lol just to think that i still have to do that in game screen lols
taking so much for the start screen xD hopefully it will be worth overall.


Edited by RollerKingdom - 24 January 2010 at 4:12pm
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Quote Ninja Crow Replybullet Posted: 24 January 2010 at 4:45pm
Hey, Roller!  You sure have put a lot of work into this in such a short time!

Your new legs do look better, but unfortunately it looks like you have the right leg and the right arm both swung back - they'd be opposite during a natural walk.

Also, I much prefer this grass texture:



The one on the hill above his head (it looks like a real pain to do that much detail though...) - but to keep it from looking too much like rock, you might want to avoid using such a dark black in it.

Having the two clumps of cloud made for better composition, IMHO.  Also, the flat shading looks better, but if you want to make them more 3-D, then don't use the method from your last post, try shading them with the same shapes as their own outline - otherwise they'll look like a pile of melted marshmallow!  (wish I could be more help on that, but all I know is how clouds look good, I've never pixelled them!)
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Quote jalonso Replybullet Posted: 24 January 2010 at 5:20pm
I don't want to overpower or make you do stuff. Find your way on your own. You have already started going in a better direction than you were. Be patient, show updates.
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Quote RollerKingdom Replybullet Posted: 24 January 2010 at 8:22pm
Originally posted by Ninja Crow

Hey, Roller!  You sure have put a lot of work into this in such a short time!

Your new legs do look better, but unfortunately it looks like you have the right leg and the right arm both swung back - they'd be opposite during a natural walk.

Also, I much prefer this grass texture:



The one on the hill above his head (it looks like a real pain to do that much detail though...) - but to keep it from looking too much like rock, you might want to avoid using such a dark black in it.

Having the two clumps of cloud made for better composition, IMHO.  Also, the flat shading looks better, but if you want to make them more 3-D, then don't use the method from your last post, try shading them with the same shapes as their own outline - otherwise they'll look like a pile of melted marshmallow!  (wish I could be more help on that, but all I know is how clouds look good, I've never pixelled them!)


Thank you so much for the tips, tbh the reason i didnt continue with that grass is because i thought it was looking horrible.. and i really like the grass atm, maybe ill be adding some logs and rocks on them to give more details..
Also ill fix the leg and arm position, thank you.
Thanks about the cloud, ill be detailing it more and the reason i removed one clump is because it might take the attention of the text too much when added.



Originally posted by jalonso

I don't want to overpower or make you do stuff. Find your way on your own. You have already started going in a better direction than you were. Be patient, show updates.


aww but i want your help at least with the palette, you helped me improve it a lot by helping me change the grass palette, i got the feeling that i wanted of a dark atmosphere.. i just gotta find some good palette for the cloud so it won't blend in with the text when added..
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Quote jalonso Replybullet Posted: 24 January 2010 at 9:10pm
Originally posted by RollerKingdom

aww but i want your help at least with the palette, you helped me improve it a lot by helping me change the grass palette, i got the feeling that i wanted of a dark atmosphere.. i just gotta find some good palette for the cloud so it won't blend in with the text when added..


This I can help without feeling like I'm doing your job for you. Tomorrow during the day I'll get you a starting palette going that will hopefully help you with future work, k : )
I
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Quote RollerKingdom Replybullet Posted: 24 January 2010 at 9:39pm
Ive been starting the clouds detail and AA.. how is it coming so far?

Im really liking it so far especially because its my first time doing it

Originally posted by jalonso



This I can help without feeling like I'm doing your job for you. Tomorrow during the day I'll get you a starting palette going that will hopefully help you with future work, k : )



Thank you, ill be working on the AA so then i can just recolor later on


Edited by RollerKingdom - 24 January 2010 at 9:40pm
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Quote r1k Replybullet Posted: 24 January 2010 at 11:19pm
Im really liking this dark atmosphere youre giving this, however, I think your grass is too detailed.  Its fine in the foreground, but as it goes back into the distance there should be less detail, less contrast between the colors.  As it is now, the hills look a little flat cause its all the same texture all over.
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Quote RollerKingdom Replybullet Posted: 25 January 2010 at 4:26am
Originally posted by r1k

Im really liking this dark atmosphere youre giving this, however, I think your grass is too detailed.  Its fine in the foreground, but as it goes back into the distance there should be less detail, less contrast between the colors.  As it is now, the hills look a little flat cause its all the same texture all over.


Thank you, im sure to fix it when back from school..
so i should remove the light grass part from the back hills and make them standing less?
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Quote jalonso Replybullet Posted: 25 January 2010 at 12:55pm
This is a suggested palette that you should refine and rework yourself. Its just a starting point, k.

Notice its not linear ramps side by side but a string of colors that form endless loops.
This type of palette I think works best for anyone because all you have to do is pick a color anywhere and then you know which colors go with it and any ramp may be from 3 colors to 15, is needed.
The last row uses the neutral shades to create whole new ramps and even combine two colors that are not directly by each other, thus extending your palette without a need for new colors.



*"so i should remove the light grass part from the back hills and make them standing less?" ---- yes.

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Quote Ninja Crow Replybullet Posted: 25 January 2010 at 1:12pm
Originally posted by RollerKingdom

Originally posted by r1k

Im really liking this dark atmosphere youre giving this, however, I think your grass is too detailed.  Its fine in the foreground, but as it goes back into the distance there should be less detail, less contrast between the colors.  As it is now, the hills look a little flat cause its all the same texture all over.
Thank you, im sure to fix it when back from school..
so i should remove the light grass part from the back hills and make them standing less?

Part of the reason I suggested using the first grass texture is because it looks great (a lot like pro work) and also because as r1k said, the far hills need to be less textured (notice in the first grass on the far hill that there are no individual clumps, but rather that it joins into pleasant furrows, which would happen with real grass as you moved away from it - you'd see group structure and not the peppering of individual grass blades).

As for the text interfering with the clouds, this should not be a problem with a properly designed font.  One method is to use a white and a black outline around the body of each letter, and then it can contrast with any colour.

Here is a picture of beautiful horizon clouds in a rich colour whose shape most matches the ones of your own picture.  They're lit from right to left, while yours are lit from left to right, but you can get the idea.  Note the number if little clumps that go into making big clumps, where light and dark shadows tend to fall, and so on.  Please keep both clumps of clouds as you had originally, as this balances the picture and helps keep the eye from being drawn away from Madara - if your font is designed well there won't be any problems.

Ahem, all this is just personal speculation of course, since I haven't tried it myself to see if it looks good, and I don't want to unduly influence your original vision - but I hope it was helpful, at least!  Thanks.
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Quote RollerKingdom Replybullet Posted: 25 January 2010 at 2:09pm
Originally posted by Ninja Crow

Originally posted by RollerKingdom

Originally posted by r1k

Im really liking this dark atmosphere youre giving this, however, I think your grass is too detailed.  Its fine in the foreground, but as it goes back into the distance there should be less detail, less contrast between the colors.  As it is now, the hills look a little flat cause its all the same texture all over.
Thank you, im sure to fix it when back from school..
so i should remove the light grass part from the back hills and make them standing less?

Part of the reason I suggested using the first grass texture is because it looks great (a lot like pro work) and also because as r1k said, the far hills need to be less textured (notice in the first grass on the far hill that there are no individual clumps, but rather that it joins into pleasant furrows, which would happen with real grass as you moved away from it - you'd see group structure and not the peppering of individual grass blades).

As for the text interfering with the clouds, this should not be a problem with a properly designed font.  One method is to use a white and a black outline around the body of each letter, and then it can contrast with any colour.

Here is a picture of beautiful horizon clouds in a rich colour whose shape most matches the ones of your own picture.  They're lit from right to left, while yours are lit from left to right, but you can get the idea.  Note the number if little clumps that go into making big clumps, where light and dark shadows tend to fall, and so on.  Please keep both clumps of clouds as you had originally, as this balances the picture and helps keep the eye from being drawn away from Madara - if your font is designed well there won't be any problems.

Ahem, all this is just personal speculation of course, since I haven't tried it myself to see if it looks good, and I don't want to unduly influence your original vision - but I hope it was helpful, at least!  Thanks.


Thank you, the grass is that I really loved how this one came out.. (prob the best grass ive made ever in my life lol) and i think it suits the picture really well, and I do intend to add the other big clump of clouds, it's prob going to suit the red writing more but now idk about the writing.. is it good? I don't want it to like ruin the picture.. so i want to start adding it now and then add the finishing touch with some rocks or logs later on and go to the next phase which is the in game screen.

@Jaloson: Thanks for the palette, however there were some colors i couldnt quite match with what i was looking for such as the character clothing, i kinda preferred that blue shades on the uniform.. also I tried finding some light pinkish colors to maybe change the clouds color but obvs it failed xD

I;ve also fixed some stuff such as worked a bit more on the character pose, removed some lightning parts from the grass on the far corner and AA cloud + mountains.

here's where i stand so far



Edited by RollerKingdom - 25 January 2010 at 2:09pm
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Quote Reo Replybullet Posted: 25 January 2010 at 2:59pm
More then clouds it looks like he's heading for the huge marshmellow castle.
You need to make it more clear that it's cloud i suggest making it more misty of sorts, I think that would suit the tone of the piece more.
Also I have to say that I don't really think you've captured the likeness of the character completley I'm not sure if i would've recognized him.
Also maybe add som spots of burnt grass or something, anything to bring more details and mood to the piece.
I definetly think you're improving keep it up :D
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Quote RollerKingdom Replybullet Posted: 25 January 2010 at 3:11pm
Originally posted by Reo

More then clouds it looks like he's heading for the huge marshmellow castle.
You need to make it more clear that it's cloud i suggest making it more misty of sorts, I think that would suit the tone of the piece more.
Also I have to say that I don't really think you've captured the likeness of the character completley I'm not sure if i would've recognized him.
Also maybe add som spots of burnt grass or something, anything to bring more details and mood to the piece.
I definetly think you're improving keep it up :D


Yeah.. any tips or can you show a little demonstraation on how i could fix the clouds? :/ it's my first time trying it so im like
the idea of burn spots is nice :) maybe i can add in some places but im adding more details to the grass and etc after i get the lettering and sky/bkg done :)
The character i can take a look up on how i could try to capture more of him.. it's hard to find pics of him out there since he hasn't fully appeared on the show (i dont personally read the manga xD)
Also prob when i start doing the IN GAME screen it will appear more like him by the pose im thinking of doing..
Thank you

oo btw what do you think of the writing? I kno im still going to give detail to it and AA

~Adam


Edited by RollerKingdom - 25 January 2010 at 3:12pm
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Quote jalonso Replybullet Posted: 25 January 2010 at 3:50pm
Remember I said its a starting point to work from. Colors will always change here and there. Just keep color changes or additional colors within the 'string' of colors.
Type looks ok to me :)
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Quote RollerKingdom Replybullet Posted: 25 January 2010 at 4:09pm
Originally posted by jalonso

Remember I said its a starting point to work from. Colors will always change here and there. Just keep color changes or additional colors within the 'string' of colors.
Type looks ok to me :)


Thanks..
Do you think the clouds look good or any tips for it..
like someone mentioned above, he said it doesn't look like cloud so idk :S
I want to start working on the other one so i can start working on the text but i want the clouds to be good so it won't be a pain to go over after with the text done..
Also i plan to use some nice red from the palette to blend with that dark simple red sky..
and then i plan to work more on the fields..

rofl this thread might end up with like 10 pages by the time im done :P
Hopefully the in game screen wont be too difficult like the starting screen..
and thanks everyone for the help and critics, I really take all in consideration!
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Quote jalonso Replybullet Posted: 25 January 2010 at 4:43pm
Frankly, the cloud is a mess! The reason is that its so strong and contrasty to the sky that its almost a foreground feature or at least demands the viewers eye too much. It really needs to blend into the BG and not be a solid item between the mountains and the grass.
I think this piece by Ryona is a good example of sky/clound/ground blend.


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Quote dpixel Replybullet Posted: 25 January 2010 at 4:47pm
Originally posted by RollerKingdom



Thanks..
Do you think the clouds look good or any tips for it..
like someone mentioned above, he said it doesn't look like cloud so idk :S
I want to start working on the other one so i can start working on the text but i want the clouds to be good so it won't be a pain to go over after with the text done..
Also i plan to use some nice red from the palette to blend with that dark simple red sky..
and then i plan to work more on the fields..

rofl this thread might end up with like 10 pages by the time im done :P
Hopefully the in game screen wont be too difficult like the starting screen..
and thanks everyone for the help and critics, I really take all in consideration!


I would think if the clouds are below the mountains a misty effect would be in order otherwise keep them higher.   As mentioned earlier, they do look kind of marshmallowy.

Also jalonso's palette is quite nice.  I bet you would see a lot of stuff you didn't expect working with that. 


Edited by dpixel - 25 January 2010 at 5:02pm
hehe (ಠ_ಠ ) o_- :p
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Quote RollerKingdom Replybullet Posted: 25 January 2010 at 5:08pm
well this was my latest update on the clouds to benefit the text a bit more..
That piece is amazing.. idk if i can apply it to mine :S
I can try but it might take some time to learn it :P


Also I would like to know which one looks better.. left or right?
(clouds all blending or leaving that one showing its back..

Also you kno the character i have on the squre below the screen
i think that hair color is better than the one on the picture right now.. don't you think so?


Edited by RollerKingdom - 25 January 2010 at 5:10pm
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RollerKingdom
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Quote RollerKingdom Replybullet Posted: 25 January 2010 at 7:43pm
hmm I took out the Madara writing.. im srsly not liking the writing, well the one written The red path of came out pretty nice but idk how to blend in madara, so i was thinking if maybe creating a table and adding after when the pic was done if it would work out fine..

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JekHazit
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Quote JekHazit Replybullet Posted: 25 January 2010 at 8:42pm
I think maybe darkening the clouds alittle at horizon level. Just alittle bit of it. Try and add a slightly brighter side to the mountains and a small gradient to the sky.
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linx
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Quote linx Replybullet Posted: 25 January 2010 at 8:56pm

Update to the face of the character, might be more of a preference though.
Also his walk doesnt seem like it has much force so the part of his outfit that is going upwards should be moved down a bit.
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Quote RollerKingdom Replybullet Posted: 26 January 2010 at 4:39am


Originally posted by JekHazit

I think maybe darkening the clouds alittle at horizon level. Just alittle bit of it. Try and add a slightly brighter side to the mountains and a small gradient to the sky.


Ya thats what i was looking for too, thanks for the idea on the mountains, ill add one more on the middle and do the bright side and will work on the sky gradient as well.

Originally posted by linx


Update to the face of the character, might be more of a preference though.
Also his walk doesnt seem like it has much force so the part of his outfit that is going upwards should be moved down a bit.


OO this looks hawt, would you mind if i use that palette for the clouds :D?
also thanks for the edit on his face, it gives him a bit of more madness expression and the part of the outfit as well, ill just slighting smooth it.

now i wonder if the Madara text can come up better..


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linx
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Quote linx Replybullet Posted: 26 January 2010 at 8:25am
Forgot to mention i edited the clouds with an NPA gradient.  Was just messing around trying to see how to make them look better, try to make a palette similar to it though :D
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Quote RollerKingdom Replybullet Posted: 26 January 2010 at 10:15am
oo okay so you mean there is a bunch of colors on these clouds mixed together :o?
 
Ill check it and try to make a palette similar to it..
btw change of plans..
im not doing a start screen anymore
i decided to make that an story scenario, i have the phrase in mind so i jst gotta work on the table for it with the character face..
I think it's better this way because it looks too detailed and if i try to like add a title to it, it might end up ruining the quality of the work..
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Quote RollerKingdom Replybullet Posted: 26 January 2010 at 3:03pm
So what do you think of the idea of making this a part of a introduction scene?
Which speech box do you prefer more..
(there are 2 diff versions, one with brighter border and faded letters, bright border and bright letter, faded border and bright letter)



Also ive start working a bit on the mountain lightning..
if everything is looking good from this point ill start adding the more details for the grass such as rocks and etc.
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