Medici U21 INVENTIONS! (28/06/2012)
Printed From: Pixel Joint
Category: Pixel Art
Forum Name: WIP (Work In Progress)
Forum Discription: Get crits and comments on your pixel WIPs and other art too!
URL: https://pixeljoint.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=10836
Printed Date: 05 September 2025 at 8:41pm
Topic: Medici U21 INVENTIONS! (28/06/2012)
Posted By: JaumeAlcazo
Subject: Medici U21 INVENTIONS! (28/06/2012)
Date Posted: 17 August 2010 at 9:57am
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Hi, I made this.
Please let me know what you think about it. I'm specially interested on know what thinks jalonso about it. Sorry for poor english, i'm from Spain. I wish to congratulate Jalonso for his extremely good work. |
Replies:
Posted By: JaumeAlcazo
Date Posted: 17 August 2010 at 9:57am
| ** EDITED: See the last update at the end of the thread ** |
Posted By: jalonso
Date Posted: 17 August 2010 at 11:23am
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Link isn't working/I must see - Link no se puede usar/ necesito veer
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Posted By: carbontwelve
Date Posted: 17 August 2010 at 2:02pm
| Link worked for me I think, but I don't have flash on my computer. |
Posted By: jalonso
Date Posted: 17 August 2010 at 2:14pm
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k, I got in but understood nothing, what do you do to get around, stuck in maze screen which has some flaws.??? ...its somewhat flattering. ------------- |
Posted By: greenraven
Date Posted: 17 August 2010 at 4:43pm
"If you build it, they will come."  jal, I think you may have found that programmer you've been looking for. -------------  "pwnage comes with patience, practice and planning." ~ Jalonso 
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Posted By: JaumeAlcazo
Date Posted: 18 August 2010 at 4:52pm
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Hi, jalonso, I'm proud and happy of talking with you, you are a legend to my eyes.
I admit that this is very simple, it's only 1 screen, and you can't get out, and has some bugs. The explanation is that i was playing a little bit with this, is a very very early version, and wanted to show you, so if you where interested in doing something "por amor al arte" (just for fun), being this Medici, or anything else you have in mind, i would be happy to trying to program with your graphics. If anyone else wants to pass my their graphics, i will try also, i can promise nothing, but i will try, just for fun. I admit also the flaws, but, could you all point them, so I can correct the more important ones? I wish improve as a programmer. Thank you!! : ) |
Posted By: Adcrusher
Date Posted: 18 August 2010 at 5:53pm
| when the character is facing down, the staff looks completely different from the other angles. |
Posted By: jalonso
Date Posted: 19 August 2010 at 1:30pm
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JaumeAlcazo, If all you're doing is seeking improvement in your programming I'll give you the isolated assets so you can play around with them instead of having to cut and distort ma pixels. I'll post some here for you and if you do good I'll give you more :)
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Posted By: JaumeAlcazo
Date Posted: 20 August 2010 at 9:02am
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@jalonso: That is wonderful. I will love working with your isolated assets, or layers, it *really* will help a lot : )
Now I leave you with my update 2, I'm afraid I still needed to cut a little. @Adcrusher524: I took what was in the final image of jalonso, and I'm afraid there's no Leo with the wood wand facing down (only with the blue wand facing down), so I can't put it yet, sorry. Update 2: ** EDITED: See the last update at the end of the thread ** - Added the city, with a vertical scroll spanning 2 screens. - Added the collision detection *with vertical scroll* of 2 screens. This involves moving the collision detection along with the scrolled screens. - Completely rewrite of the collision detection system, *MUCH* more fluid now. - Added the old man character wandering around, and the lady (at a faster pace), and incorporated them into the scroll. - Added the "floor 1" of the city, so you can go *behind* the tower, not step on it (this was in the gardens, also, in the pillars and in the door), and incorporated the floor 1 in to the scroll also (if you don't do this, the *tower floor 1* stands still while the screen scrolls). - Transition beetween the gardens and the city, this involves repositioning the scroll of the city, eliminating the floor 1 of the outgoing screen, and repositioning the elements of the scrolled screen (npc's and floor 1 of the city screen). c+c is wellcomed. |
Posted By: carbontwelve
Date Posted: 20 August 2010 at 10:29am
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omi that does look really nice. Although you probably already know, the old man can walk over people rather than collide with them and in the top scene before the garden he walks over the top right building. I really like this, look forward to more updates. |
Posted By: wenruto
Date Posted: 20 August 2010 at 3:33pm
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Man tht looks so cool, really nice dude ..some part of the tiles looks kinda blurry and out of shapes to me and carbontwelve is right about being able to go through the characters..... can't wait to see more updates =] ------------- Earn free stuff by searching like Google http://swagbucks.com/refer/wendy"> 
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Posted By: jalonso
Date Posted: 21 August 2010 at 5:29pm
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All the blurry spots are because he's cutting the mockup and filling the holes. This was a mockup and not intended to be a game so I don't have much that is isolated but the Medici folder is huge so I will dig through it and let you play with them. I will do this as soon as I can. I almost sure I have all backgrounds without anything on them. _____ Here's the deal. Make a garden maze and if you impress me and its interesting to others, I'll give/make you more stuff :) These tiles include assets not used in the mockup and a few I made just so you have plenty to work with. Everything in red is stuff that could be transparent overlays. I had fun with this today so I'm making you a set of underground catacombs so you'll want to make sure the top ground layer has enough of the grates/grills for lights and stairs that go down. Have fun :)  ------------- |
Posted By: bannanawalrus
Date Posted: 22 August 2010 at 3:11am
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it's sexy. not major but its a little annoying that if you walk next to a building he jumps a couple px to the right and over the building every 4 frames or so.
just move that frame a couple px to the left and add colisions with NPC's.
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Posted By: jalonso
Date Posted: 22 August 2010 at 1:11pm
90% brand new tiles (Medici Part 2 for my gallery might be happening.) Don't use the mockup part it was just for my planning the tiles but wanted to show you how I think it should roughly look. TILES FOR LABYRINTH AND CATACOMBS HAVE ERRORS DO NOT USE!!! UPDATE VERY SOON :) ------------- |
Posted By: JaumeAlcazo
Date Posted: 24 August 2010 at 10:51am
| I, of course, accept the challenge : ) I already started working on it. This will keep me busy for a while. Ok, I will not use the dungeons until you are ready! |
Posted By: jalonso
Date Posted: 24 August 2010 at 2:33pm
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Oh noes! its the maze part that has the big errors : | OK, use this. Some Forest tiles added too :) In case you already added tiles the changes were mostly in the grass walls, trees, walls and anything not within 16x16 breaks.  ------------- |
Posted By: JaumeAlcazo
Date Posted: 26 August 2010 at 9:44am
| Ok, understood : ) |
Posted By: Fingerfoods
Date Posted: 26 August 2010 at 11:53am
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I didn't realize Medici was more than a few mockups. O: These tiles are amazing! They need to be on my harddrive for dissection. *saves*
Now, if this becomes fully-playable...then there is a god. Good luck JaumeAlcazo! |
Posted By: JaumeAlcazo
Date Posted: 02 September 2010 at 5:44am
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Ok, I'm not finished, but I really feel that I must you show how is it going at the moment, and I feel that I need some c+c before moving on.
I did 2 things: 1- I did 64 new screens, but *THEY'RE NOT YET IN THE GAME*, at the moment *THEY'RE ONLY GRAPHICS*. 2- I did update 3. Let's see this: |
Posted By: JaumeAlcazo
Date Posted: 02 September 2010 at 5:46am
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Posted By: JaumeAlcazo
Date Posted: 02 September 2010 at 5:50am
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FOREST:
You want to go in to the temple, but you need the key. The guard won't gave it to you, he's keeping it (the boss said "no one enters here, it's old, and rusty, and it's too dangerous"). But he's tired and feels bad because of the hot weather. If you only could bring him some water he would feel better.. The fountain is blocked by stones. But you found (in a chest) the "Earth Wand" ! This wand, has various powers, but the most important is that is in contact with the earth, and can "dissipate" some big blocking stones that you found in your way. You give the water to the soldier and he lents you the key "temporary". You walk into the temple and go downstairs to find the key to go a screen up, to the dungeons. DUNGEONS: You appear in the dungeons. You must first drain the underground channels (that are flooded) (they caught the rain, in order to have fresh water) with the switch in the upper middle of the screen (the switch was to make the water go out when it's too much water stored). Then you get the red and blue keys and you are able to descend on to the dried channel and get the key. With the yellow key you open the door in the right corner, and you see the chest where is the "fire wand". But you can't get into it, you first must make appear a bridge, with a nearby switch. Then you can get the "fire wand" that is the goal of this dungeon (with this maybe you can burn things and make light when you are in the dark). |
Posted By: JaumeAlcazo
Date Posted: 02 September 2010 at 5:57am
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UPDATE 3:
** EDITED: See the last update at the end of the thread ** And now, the Update 3. These are the improvements Resize the screen if you got performance problems (make the screen smaller) - Added the text for the 3 post signs, "Cathedral of Florence", "Clock Tower" and "Public Baths" (I didn't know what to put here, they're placeholders), with a fade in and fade out in the post sign. - Added the entrance to the clock tower, and the text "You can't enter here.. yet". - The same with the entrance of the Cathedral and the "Public Baths". - Corrected some bugs with the floor 1 of the city. - The old man stops when you touch him, and Leo is drawed with more or less depth depending on the center of the y coordinate of the 2 sprites. - Better legibility in the texts. - Now you can't step on the roof on the bottom right. - Added some instructions at the beginning ("find the red wand..") - Added some credits at the beginning of the game, instead than in the front screen. And a big title screen in the end of the credits. - Added some text for the woman with the chicken ("You can't buy anything.. yet") - The fade in/out beetween screens now draws itself on the right depth (before you could see the fade drawing behind the tower, and any other element that could be put in the floor 1). - Added some music. I will put the copyright author of the recording on future updates (or maybe exchange for a midi). I'm worried, because now is 7mb (because of the music) and had to put it to megaupload, because is to big to load online. |
Posted By: JaumeAlcazo
Date Posted: 02 September 2010 at 5:58am
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I'm afraid I worked so hard in this that I need a couple of weeks off of this. But I'm looking forward to read your c+c : )
PS: Open the .swf with a browser, for example, Google Chrome, and resize the screen if the thing goes too laggy. PS2: Thank you Fingerfoods, carbon12, wenruto, and all the other people who expressed interest in this. |
Posted By: jalonso
Date Posted: 02 September 2010 at 8:34am
You are doing great  I will play later today and post my comments here. I gave you shadows for trees and stuff and would probably makes things look grounded. The only thing I really don't like is the water filled areas' front walls point in and nothing should do that. All view is front up ^, understand this? Rocks in dungeons look ugly. If you want I'll make you grey/green ones...just ask :) ______ Take your time and don't worry about taking breaks :) Do you want me to give you the fonts I used? I will make you 'switches' I will make you another set of grass variations since it looks flat. Anything you want just ask, really :) ------------- |
Posted By: greenraven
Date Posted: 02 September 2010 at 8:47am
You better believe this is going down as a news article when it's all done! 
------------- "pwnage comes with patience, practice and planning." ~ Jalonso
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Posted By: Stratto
Date Posted: 02 September 2010 at 11:06am
| this is coming out great, although those water tiles look a little bit weird from that angle. |
Posted By: carbontwelve
Date Posted: 02 September 2010 at 12:05pm
| this is looking really amazing :D |
Posted By: vlad61
Date Posted: 02 September 2010 at 3:39pm
| Im so glad someone started on that! very nice progress so far. Glad Jalonso is cooperating as well haha. |
Posted By: JaumeAlcazo
Date Posted: 19 October 2010 at 7:25am
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Hello, i'm still alive! Sorry for the delay, I began the school in september (i'm teacher) and procastinated this a lot, but finally I got my hands on the work and I'm now doing the update 4 and working on answering your questions and working on my suggestions to jalonso. I hope to post something new soon. When i was driving today to work, I had an idea. What if we put some harpsichord in Leo's studio and in other places throught the game? When you approach the harpsichord a big keyboard is seen on screen, over the chars and background and the player can play the harpsi with the keyboard of his/her computer. May be you can bring some scores to the keyboard and are played automatically ("Leo plays them") and we could do some puzzles with that trought the game. For example, he could bring the well tempered clavier to the harpsi (was Bach alive at the same time as Leo? would be cool that the 2 characters meet? may be Leo could fly to Leipzig?), and then the player would see the keys illuminated as some kind of midi was automatically played. To not be boring it would be not long piece, only an significative excerpt.  Think about that and let me know what you think please. I'll come with update 4, suggestions, and answers as soon as posible. |
Posted By: jalonso
Date Posted: 19 October 2010 at 10:03am
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It's a good idea. Finding puzzles, activities and mini-games should be easy to add wherever you want. Let me know what you need art-wise when you have it planned out :)
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Posted By: ChrisButton
Date Posted: 20 October 2010 at 6:19am
| omg I can't delete this post. |
Posted By: ChrisButton
Date Posted: 20 October 2010 at 6:22am
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Make sure you are using the else if function, not just another if function when you're using different buttons. A good example of this is a game I ripped and whipped up in 10 minutes LOL!
Take note of how when you press left or right, you can't do both at once.
(Obviously, if you pressed both at once he'd be stuck in the one spot, because -2 + 2 = 0 blah blah)
http://www.swfcabin.com/open/1287627489 - http://www.swfcabin.com/open/1287627489
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Posted By: JaumeAlcazo
Date Posted: 22 October 2010 at 5:45am
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@jalonso: fine! i'm almost done with update 4 and suggestions, I only need few days more and will let you know what i need : )
@Chris: Thankss. I get your point. at the beginning it was no diagonal and then i felt that was cooler if you could walk diagonal. I think i want to hear more opinions about being able to walk diagonal or not. If the people wants no diagonal, i will give them no diagonal. Zelda was no diagonal, i think, wasn't it? by the way, the tonypa tutorials were very cool. Thank you. |
Posted By: jalonso
Date Posted: 22 October 2010 at 6:19pm
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I think diagonal walking is not needed.
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Posted By: ekobor
Date Posted: 22 October 2010 at 11:15pm
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Originally posted by ChrisButton Make sure you are using the else if function, not just another if function when you're using different buttons. A good example of this is a game I ripped and whipped up in 10 minutes LOL!
Take note of how when you press left or right, you can't do both at once.
(Obviously, if you pressed both at once he'd be stuck in the one spot, because -2 + 2 = 0 blah blah)
http://www.swfcabin.com/open/1287627489 - http://www.swfcabin.com/open/1287627489
(I understand what you mean, but with the Mario thing if you hold left, then right, he goes right. If you hold right, then left, he goes right. If you try to hold both simultaneously, he goes right. He prefers right, it seems =P ) ------------- |
Posted By: JaumeAlcazo
Date Posted: 23 October 2010 at 4:24am
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UPDATE 4:
Ok, sooner than I expected, here goes the update 4. *Important*: Open it with a browser. It's a .swf. Right click on it-->open with-->and select your favorite browser. *Important*: If it lags, resize the window of the browser and make it smaller, it eventually will not. Tell me if it lags in your computer, please. ** EDITED: See the last update at the end of the thread ** Major changes/improvements/additions: 1 - Now you can enter in the cathedral: - The cathedral is a Y-scroll consisting in 3-screens. - Added the bishop. - You can go behind the columns in the cathedral, as pictured (sorry for the blurriness, it's jpg, in the actual game is not blurry) 
2 - You can talk with the bishop! As jalonso offered me, I need the fonts that jalonso used to put them into the dialog box, so it will look better with his fonts, jal, could you sent them to me at jaume.alcazo@gmail.com? thanks : ) - When you enter the dialog it lacks the portrait picture of the bishop, i put it as a suggestion below. As a temporary solution, i put the picture of medici instead of the bishop one. - When you start talking the bishop, Leo moves automatically in front of him. First to the right, then up (or down, depending on the bishop Y and Leo Y), and then he faces left, to face the bishop. With this automatic movement I think that cool cinematic sequences could be done using the auto-movement. I writed a complete automoving subsystem, in which you can make auto-move Leo as you wish in the cinematic sequence (or any other character or thing). - When you enter the dialog, it fades in, without fade in it was to rough visually, i feel. - The current dialog is as depicted: 
When you talk to him again, to insist, it goes like this: 
(You are not able to get that wand at the moment) 3 - As I told you above, I writed an automoving system for Leo (for cinematic sequences, events, explanations of the argument, flashbacks, etc..) or any other character in the game. Currently you only see it when talking to the bishop, but I made it "scriptable", so I can made him go automatically first 50 units up, then -100 units down, then 75 units up again, then 25 units right, etc.. as long and as complex as you wish. 4 - Added the hud. The hud consists of: - The level marker of the character, in the upper left corner. Currently you are level 01 and can not improve.. yet. - The marker of the wand you selected and the caracter is displaying, at the upper right corner. - The hud doesn't appear immediatly when you start the game. It waits a second or two and then appears with a fade-in. Is a very very subtle effect, but i think it adds coolness to the overall game. Minor changes: 1 - Corrected the misspelling "Johan Sebastian Bach" for "Johann Sebastian Bach", which is the correct name. Suggestions to jalonso: 1 - Dialog portrait for the bishop. I mean, like Mona Lisa and Medici. My idea of him is like a fat, unpleasant man, with oily skin and may be with one or two teeths missing. Dressed with opulence, with gold rings and other things like that. In the surface is ok with the people, but in his mind he is always thinking how to backstab you, he is sneaky, furtive, and may be with hidden perversions. With Leo is openly hostile. What name could he have? This is only a suggestion, if you have another vision of him, it's ok for me : ) 2 - Dialog portrait for Leo! It would be absolutely cool that when Leo talks his portrait is seen, and when the bishop talks his portrait is seen. 3 - Could you make "A" button for the dialog, like it is a console button for gameboy or something like that. Like you done in the mockup. 
4 - Can you give me the graphic of the room where medici is? I mean, without the dialog and the portrait of him. Like the bottom right in the mockup ("utterly useless"), but without the portrait and dialog box, and (if you can) the character of lorenzo by separate. 5 - Would be a good idea to make some animation in the "level" marker (level 01, level 02, etc..), like a little shine. I would trigger it sometimes, to add more dinamism to the hud. I think some dynamism in the hud is cool. For example, if you've played Starcraft 2, the Zerg race, the hud is like an organic flesh of zerg, that slowly moves, like if the hud is "breathing". Obviously these would not apply to "Medici", but may be we could get the idea of some subtle movement or animation in the hud. 6 - Can you give me the graphic of the city without nothing over it (no characters, no hud, etc..) so we could get rid of the "blurry" spots? Or, if you can't, could you fix the blurried spots better than I did, so it don't look so bad. 7 - Can you do some animation in the graphic of the bishop? may be only 2 or 3 frames, modifying slightly the first one. I feel he is too static. It's not needed for him to walk, may be change facial expression or move his hands or arms a little bit. What do you think of changing a little bit the sprite to make him more fat, with more belly ? 8 - I can't put the sprites of Leo that you gave me because you forget the frames where Leo stands still, without moving his feet. Can you do these frames, please? I need Leo standing still facing down, left, right, up, with each of the 3 wands and with no wand. I think the left and the right standing still is done, but I can't see it clearly. 9 - Yes, please send me the fonts you used. I'll put them in the dialog boxes. I like the fonts in the credits sequence, but may be would be better with your fonts. In the dialog boxes definitely your fonts look better. You could send them to my mail, jaume.alcazo@gmail.com, thanks! 10 - jal, have you noticed that the dialog box that you gave to me is very slightly shorter that the one in the mockup? it's like 4 o 5 pixels less tall. For me it's ok like that, i only tell you just in case was a mistake. 11 - The green rocks for the dungeon. 12 - Switches for the dungeon. 13 - Skeletons for the dungeons, chained to the walls, in the ground holding a sword or a glass, etc.. 14 - A whole supper table for the dungeons (like in the last supper) but filled with misterious skeletons that meet the death while eating, they are sitted in the chairs, the food is may be rotten. There's a skeleton "king" sitted in a throne, with a glass in his hands, his head falls backwards, he wears may be a cloak, etc.. This are only suggestions, to make the dungeons more creepy, I feel they are too nice now, I think they need more scary things and a feeling of horror or something like that. At the moment the game is too "Zelda", for kids, but may be would be cooler with more adult horror elements (from time to time, not to abuse from them). 15 - A bunch of rocks in the gardens, that are blocking the fountain, but better drawn as i did (see the bigger garden image that is in this post for what i mean). Known bugs - Sometimes when you go in the gardens and return to the city, Leo goes away. I'll fix this. Please tell me if you can find any bugs. You suggestions and comments are welcomed, as always : ) Misc - Bach was not born at the time Leo was alive. He would born like 200 years later, or so. We could ignore this and make the two characters meet, or find some other composer that was alive at that time, for Leo to meet. Thanks - To all of you, and specially to jal. People, your comments give me the strength to carry this on. Is hard to go on with a work, and a life, and hobbies in this time of crisis without going in to the sanatorium, and every single word of you telling you like this goes directly to my heart and gives me strength. - Thanks for reading me, and for the patience with my english. Is *VERY* frustrating not being able to express all what i have in my head in your language (and in my own language too hahaha ; ). I feel that my head goes like 1000 times faster than my words that i talk or write when i talk about programming or what i'm doing! If you don't understand some point because of bad english, tell me so and i'll try to explain better. - By the way, for curiosity, can you explain me in other words what "utterly" means in the phrase "utterly useless"? It puzzled me from the very beginning and couldn't find an answer : ) More suggestions and other things will come! Thanks. |
Posted By: ChrisButton
Date Posted: 23 October 2010 at 6:09am
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Originally posted by ekobor (I understand what you mean, but with the Mario thing if you hold left, then right, he goes right. If you hold right, then left, he goes right. If you try to hold both simultaneously, he goes right. He prefers right, it seems =P ) LOL Yeah, that's because of the way it's programmed. To be put simply, you start the code off for walking with an if statement. (if this key is down, walk) but then for the next three directions, you have to use an else if statement. else if is basically saying 'otherwise, if you do this instead, override any other key that is previously held down' kinda thing, you know? :D so basically, the else if statement for right, was programmed AFTER the if statement for left! I'm looking forward to how this thing will turn out.
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Posted By: jalonso
Date Posted: 23 October 2010 at 12:01pm
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I was unable to download and play :( Fonts in the Mockup are pixelled and not a true font. Do you want them as a picture? You can also use 'Times' 8 pixels high with no smoothing. Let me know about this. I don't really like any of the fonts you are using, they look cheap. ...Dialog portrait for the bishop...What name could he have?... I will make you a portrait of a new character that looks more like a Pope. His name can be whomever was the Pope then. http://www.paradoxplace.com/Church_Stuff/Popes_Renaissance.htm - See This Page Use the red Bishop as a NPC. Animation frames for the Bishop below. ...make some animation in the "level" marker...empty city... I'll make this in the next round of images and give you an empty Cathedral and maybe the Last Supper Room too. ...buttons...Medici room...standing Leo...other stuff you asked for Notice I made you new rails for the dungeon for bridges and stuff. Also new Medici portrait with no AA. The Last Supper table is too important to be used only once so I made you new tables. Those dark pixels are flies. Whatever is missing I'll do later ;)  ps: I like the cutesy Zelda look :) --- utterly = completely ------------- |
Posted By: Ninja Crow
Date Posted: 23 October 2010 at 2:37pm
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Hi, JaumeAlcazo, I'm impressed with the work and care you've put into this!
It comes from a really old word (from an ancient form of English that was used about a thousand years ago!) called "ūtera", which meant 'out more', and so you can see how the 'more than' meaning of "utter" came to be. In Old English, the word "out" used to be "ūt" (rhymes with "boot") so I hope I've helped clear it up for you. I'm happy to offer any other help with English as well! And also, please don't feel shy or embarrassed about your English, since we can tell you're a nice person who deserves assistance. :) Renaissance music is generally hundreds of years older than the 'Classical' music we know about today, and was mostly devoted to sacred forms, such as the "mass" and the "motet", which often didn't use instruments at all (not to mention that many of the instruments that we are familiar with now had not been invented yet!). So I don't know if you'll be able to use a composer like Mozart, or Wagner that lots of people will know. :( Interestingly though, one of the most famous and influential composers of the Renaissance, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josquin_Desprez - Josquin des Prez (here is a small but better http://www.timelineindex.com/imagesThumb/255_2091.png - portrait ) was alive at the same time as Leonardo. And on top of this, Leonardo invented a special kind of 'piano' instrument, called a "viola organista" (which, if he had ever actually built, might have looked like this modern http://homepage1.nifty.com/obuchi/index-e.htm - re-creation ) which Josquin might have wanted to compose for. Josquin had been a member of the papal choir in Rome, so it's even conceivable that he could have crossed paths with Leonardo (although some historical dates will separate the possibility of this by about ten years, who's to say they couldn't have made a special trip?). Good luck with this! ------------- 
!Strange Atoll - The Amazing Wilbot Game Project! |
Posted By: ChrisButton
Date Posted: 24 October 2010 at 5:54am
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Just checking, is there a reason the walking up animation is so wavy?
When he's walking up Leonardo bumps left and right as he walks. In Flash when you put sprite sheets together (like I did with my Mario example) you have to zoom in until you cannot anymore, so you have pixel perfect precision. Because from far away it might appear in place, but then you will notice the flaws in the movement later on. Keep up the good work! And I'm here to help you.
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Posted By: JaumeAlcazo
Date Posted: 26 October 2010 at 10:29am
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@jalonso: wwoooooow! That's speed!!! The skeletons are incredible cool! I like them a lot, and the other things you gave me too.
About the fonts: I understand you mean "Times New Roman"? There is no "Times" alone in my hard drive, and i searched around and only find the standard times new roman. I used photoshop to put it 8 pixels height with no aa and did not get your results. For example the "g" is different, and the "U" is also very different from yours. If you can give me as image it would be better i think, because i think you retouched the original, isn'it? Here are some more suggestions, in case if you have time and like them: remember, they are only suggestions, I don't want to seem like i'm asking a lot of things, they are only ideas, do only if you feel comfortable: 16 - Shadow of the forest treetops, as in zelda: 
17 - Animals for the forest, they go around, like rabbits (a blue one and a pink one?), birds, a flying leaf, bees, butterflyes in different colors, etc.. 18 - A band of thugs guarding a cave or some thieves or something like that? (like in lands of lore) 
19 - One rat for the dungeons, may be some puzzle with the rotten food? (you gave the rotten food to the rat and she presses a far switch for you (that you can't reach?)) (like in prince of persia1) 20 - One removable roof for the entrance of the temple in the forest, as in ultima 7, when leo is out the temple the roof is seen, but when leo walks below it the roof goes away, as i illustrate with the pics: 
21 - I will think on some way to do some parts of the dungeons more "Indiana jones", i mean more like these kind of temples. For example, Leo enters into a long corridor, it's all dark but only a few rays of sun are squeezing into because of little windows. At the end of the corridor he sees some thing that is far and hard to reach. All seems calm but in the air is the feeling of a trap. It's sounds a misterious short music (I did it in my korg keyboard, is a cool misterious music, i will show you) 
22 - Well this is not really a suggestion, but, don't you feel that the dungeons are too bright? this is connected with what i say above. May be Leo can see only his sorroundings, like he is holding a torch or something like that (like in zelda) let please me know what you think of all of this ! : ) Ninja Crow : ) Thanks for your very kind words and for your help!! Thanks for the Josquin des Prez research and for the music research about the instruments and musical forms. I think it would be nice with some gregorian chants in the churches. The Josquin thing is cool, it only has the downside that (as you tell) is not as well known as Mozart, etc.. Mmm.. I'll think about that. Chris thank you! the wavy animation was done on purpose, as with the old man and lady, but i'll make it straight in the next update : ) |
Posted By: jalonso
Date Posted: 27 October 2010 at 11:48am
|
Don't add new things for now. Let me catch up first. Don't worry about asking for stuff. If its a problem I'll let you know. The mockup was never made from a true tileset so I have to create these tiles from scratch. I'm working on making the city and is the next thing I'll post for you. This will have cliffs, rocks, water and grass tiles so they will be used for the forest background. Don't do much on the forest until these tiles are made. About the fonts. I made the fonts by hand and are not real fonts. Use these real fonts as replacements. My type was based on these real fonts so the are very close. Download links Times New Roman (you said you had it) http://www.fontspace.com/jason-kottke/silkscreen - Silkscreen (my basic pixel font is based on this and is almost the same) http://www.fontspace.com/fontgrube/civitype-fg - Civitype FG ( Best version I could find)  ------------- |
Posted By: JaumeAlcazo
Date Posted: 28 October 2010 at 10:55am
|
Cool ! : ) I'm sure it will look great with all the things you say you are planning on the city!
Take your time, now, among other thousand things that are flying and buzzing around my head, i'm working on a resolution changer, that is almost done, and reading about streaming the mp3 music to load faster in the browser, so we could get rid of megaupload and i can upload to swfcabin again. I will work in the fonts you gave me too, and in some other things that doesn't add new things that interfere with your new tiles. By the way, the forest and the dungeons i did them in photoshop and was a big pain, i downloaded the mappy tool that chrisbutton said, on the tonypa tutorials page (links section), maybe you should give it a look, because when you change a tile, it automatically changes all the tiles of that type in your map, and yes, it supports layers!! : )) |
Posted By: ChrisButton
Date Posted: 01 November 2010 at 2:43am
|
haha if you're looking to reduce the filesize dramatically, tile based programming is the way to go! When you break a map into fragments, for SOME reason, even though it would take up just as much space. The little pieces decrease the file size heaps. That's why your demo jumped so high in file size when you added more to it. |
Posted By: JaumeAlcazo
Date Posted: 01 November 2010 at 8:00am
|
Traditionally your point was the main view for these topic, but in my case I feel (at the moment, maybe may change my view on this) that having 500 or 600 movieclips at the same time in screen would slow down the game more than the benefit of space you get with tiles.
The whole image for the background is small (240x160). It's .gif, it has very small hard disk size, and most important, it's only ONE movieclip in the screen at the same time. You can do the tiles outside flash to get the benefits of changing one tile and all the related ones change, and then freeze the image and use it in flash, so you have a small image and ONE movieclip, instead of 500 or 600, 2k or 3k gifs. The increase in size, in this case is just because of the mp3, that is 7mb, it's only related to the mp3 in this case. Because of that i'll do streaming, so it will only load 5% or 10% of the mp3 and start playing the game, and then keep loading on the fly. So you will have very little loading time of the game, directly on your browser. Please discuss with me the topic of the 500movieclips versus 1 slightly hard disk bigger gif. I'm not 100% sure that I'm right on this question. May be we could do a performance test with the 2 options, and see what is better. Thanks for the collaboration! : ) EDIT: I was wrong. The movieclips would be *instances*, so surely will not have any performance impact. But for the moment I think I will keep having slightly larger gifs, which I think they make easier for me in terms of scrolling and collision detection. Of course I could change my mind as new needs emerge in the future. |
Posted By: JaumeAlcazo
Date Posted: 01 November 2010 at 8:03am
|
Another topic is that with tiles would be very hard to place the trees in the forest as the same way i did it (see above).
It would look a way more "squarish".. |
Posted By: jalonso
Date Posted: 01 November 2010 at 5:47pm
|
This is Florence. The grass and water areas will be updated on this once I remake the forest to include the shadows and stuff you asked for. I will make the forest based on the one you made. In the city only the grass and water will be updated. Use this to plan/program as the city and streets will not change.  *You will have to accept things being a little bit "squarish" because I have create a lot of stuff since the mockup has only parts of things. ------------- |
Posted By: JaumeAlcazo
Date Posted: 02 November 2010 at 11:18am
|
Florence
Wooooooww! Very cooooool!!! I'll start with this right now. I think i'll do scroll of the WHOLE city, it will be very cool and smooth! I'll put a progess bar for the player to see when the city is loaded. The only fade ins/outs i think i will make when entering the buildings and exiting the city. The water is very cool as is for me! But if you feel it should be changed it will surely improve! :) Mmm.. by the way i think it'll look weird without animation, when playing the game (too "static" water). Times By the way, i cutted all the letters of the mockup, because (for reasons very long to explain) i need this particular font as a image. This is affecting only times. Civitype and silk are ok, i'm ok with the ttfs you gave me. I marked in red the letters that are not in the mockup. When you have time you could arrange the red ones (the red ones are regular times 12px, the black ones are yours), so i can put in the game : ) You did some alternative versions of some letters, for instance, the "h". I think the coolest "h" is the one in the row, but do what you want! : ) Your job impresses me, you are *REALLY* good. I feel lucky to be working side to side with you. 
Squarinesh (Don't worry about the squarinesh, it's hardly noticeable to anyone, and it's not an issue for me. To explain it easy, i was talking of having truly in flash all the separate tiles instead of the large image, which is now. The two options have some advantages and some disadvantages. The second options weights more at the moment for me (easier scroll and collision detection). But DON'T WORRY, this is not affecting your work, it's only a programming question, that is fully transparent to you. Really, don't worry about that : ) The woods I have the forest in a .psd with all the things separated in layers. It will be a lot easier for you to work with that .psd. Please send me a mail to jaume.alcazo@gmail.com and will attach you the .psd of the forest with all the layers, so you could work comfortable. |
Posted By: ChrisButton
Date Posted: 02 November 2010 at 4:40pm
| Don't worry I hate using dynamic text boxes in Flash too. They're annoying to program for me, so I do the same - I just cut the letters up and make the dialogue pictures haha :) |
Posted By: ChrisButton
Date Posted: 03 November 2010 at 11:06pm
| Makes me want to make a little game. |
Posted By: jalonso
Date Posted: 04 November 2010 at 7:39am
|
@ChrisButton, ask to help with this game ;) Times font remake in default colors  ------------- |
Posted By: JaumeAlcazo
Date Posted: 04 November 2010 at 11:06am
|
Thanksss!
I completed my resolution changer. At the moment I'm rewriting completely the scroll system, so It will allow a continuous scroll, without transitions, like Ultima VII style. This involves splitting the map in chunks (you cannot put it completely in memory, it's too large) and loading in screen only the chunks which the player can see, and creating and destroying the chunks depending on the direction which takes the player. In other words, to explain it easy, It's like if in the real life, it only exists the room in which you are now. Outside there's nothing. But when you open the door, I put the next room immediately, so you will notice anything. When you close the door I destroy the first room and you notice anything, but a smooth scroll and a continuous world. Now imagine there's no door. I create only what you can see, and when you sight range increases, i put new things and destroy the things that are not in your sight now... : )) COOL!, isn'it? |
Posted By: Numberplay
Date Posted: 04 November 2010 at 11:20am
| so You can't see what's behind you? |
Posted By: JaumeAlcazo
Date Posted: 04 November 2010 at 11:43am
|
Number, it's like in real life you are in a corridor, you are facing one direction and you feel you are in a corridor, BUT, behind you there's nothing, BUT WHEN YOU TURN to see what's behind you, then you see the other side of the corridor BUT THE FIRST things you where looking at (that now are on your back) have ceased their existance.
If you turn back again to see the "void" you can't because i create again what you can see and erase what's on your back. You'll never see the void. It's like "only exists what you can see". This allows big maps without lagging the game. |
Posted By: ChrisButton
Date Posted: 05 November 2010 at 5:56am
|
@Jalonso, I can have a look, but I feel his methods might be foreign to me. If I can't work with his method of programming, maybe I'll make a little version of my own to show you how I would program it!
@JaumeAlcazo, if you would be so kind to post a link to the .fla file, I could have a look at how you're programming it perhaps? Maybe then I can give you some feedback and make some alterations.
|
Posted By: JaumeAlcazo
Date Posted: 05 November 2010 at 6:14am
|
Well, I will try to explain it, with no offense to anyone, especially ChrisButton.
I spend so many hours with this, and work so hard in this, and put all my illusions, effort, soul, mind, tears and blood in this, that I feel a little shocked and sad to see how my programming skills are questioned, like if its "ok, kid, it's enough, give us your code and let the real programmers do the job".. Do you really need to program the same game I'm doing?Of course you can do what you want, but If you are really so good programmer, do you have to ask for the source code???, should i give to someone else what I have programmed, to see how other people take credit for my programming work? : ( this is very frustrating. There are not out there so many projects and ideas to do? Can't you do the Dali game version of the Jalonso mockup? 
Can't you do the Plagued game version of the Jalonso mockup? 
Do you need to redo all what i've done, only to show that you are the good programmer and I'm the bad???? : ( I'm sorry if i've been rough, I feel very stressed now, I just felt judged incompetent, as a programmer, and I don't believe that. I do the best I can, I almost finished the continous scroll thing, yesterday night, after work I was awake until 00:30 programming, and this morning from 8 o'clock until 10:00 i was programming, and then went to work.. In fact, now i feel compelled and stressed to release the next update before you redo all what i've done, to show the world "how you would do the job" instead of me (meaning for me, that i'm doing bad..) *sigh* Please people, give me a chance. I'm working hard, i'm serious. If you feel I can't or shouldn't do this game, say it clearly. Pd: Sorry for my little upset answer, I couldn't resist anymore the stress. I felt very attacked. I felt burned. I felt burned because I worked so hard and had this in return. Please don't be angry with me Chris. May be is just a misunderstanding that we had here. I hope so. |
Posted By: ChrisButton
Date Posted: 05 November 2010 at 6:53am
|
@JaumeAlcazo, Oh Jaume, this is definately a big misunderstanding! You have me all wrong. I never meant it to sound offensive, I was merely interested to see how you worked as I've never looked at anyone else's programming other than my own. I am fascinated by your works, and to be honest, you are just as good of a programmer than I. I wouldn't dream of taking your spotlight away from you or claim any credit on this project. When I said I'll show you how I'd do it, I never meant that you've done something wrong, I just meant that by having a look at your source code, I could provide feedback towards your work and any different approaches you could take to programming parts of the game. My most sincere apologies, and I can assure you it was not my intention to upset you at all. |
Posted By: jalonso
Date Posted: 05 November 2010 at 5:59pm
|
@JaumeAlcazo, to make you happy here's the basic forest layout (almost complete) for you to work on the scrolling programming. It tiles with Florence :D  ------------- |
Posted By: JaumeAlcazo
Date Posted: 06 November 2010 at 5:22am
|
Chris,
I feel much more released now, thanks for your kind answer : ) and I do too apologize if i've been too rough or out of tone. I'm sorry for the misunderstanding. VIDEO UPDATE 5 Here I post a fast update to all of you to see that i've finished my continuous scroll thing. And the resolution changer. It only loads what is seen. The 6 squares in the middle is what the player will see. I show the others for you to see how this works. It can load huge maps (*arbitrary* size) without lagging, because it only loads what is seen. The black is the "void", that the player can't see. Now I show you how it works: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pIgdcOYKt6Q - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pIgdcOYKt6Q Jal Thanks master! : ) I will attach the forest to the right side of florence! (and keep working on the rest of things) |
Posted By: jalonso
Date Posted: 06 November 2010 at 10:04am
|
I wish to say that I am happily making items/map and stuff because unlike most who talk you have been making things. I am however busy with work and commissions and stuff so I make stuff for you when I have free time. For this reason its important for me to know what to make and have almost no revisions or remaking stuff. I will give you what I have as I get to areas and stuff like NPCs, effects, water animations and stuff like that I'm leaving for later. I'm just concentrating on the 'world' for now. This is the basic world map mockup idea I have. Should something be wrong with it, please say so. To be safe I added the items and what they mean to me on the bottom.  ------------- |
Posted By: ChrisButton
Date Posted: 06 November 2010 at 8:17pm
|
@JaumeAlacazo, The scrolling demonstration video looks great, and the resolution changer is genious! It's great for people with different screen sizes. @Jalonso, Your art is nothing less of impressive. I'm enjoying watching the creation. I'm probably one of those 'all talk' people at the moment haha. Maybe I'll woo you with something after my upcoming interview on the 17th.
Keep up the good work you two, you make a good team.
 |
Posted By: Itimation
Date Posted: 07 November 2010 at 3:51pm
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Awesome work man! I΄m in the process of making a game myself, so I΄m really eager to see the progress on your project! What you have right now is impresive! Of course the graphics are superb aswell, keep up the good work you 2, I wanna play the game! :) |
Posted By: JaumeAlcazo
Date Posted: 08 November 2010 at 9:59am
|
@jalonso
I sent you a mail : ) I attach here too the .gifs of some WIP screens of the garden maze that I did months ago, just in case could be of some utility. As i said to you, i'm extremely happy to see how an artist that i respect so much is pleased with my work and values my efforts : ) No problems about the working pace and your responsiblities of comissions and other things. I'm totally comfortable working this way we do. Concentrating on the world is also a good idea. The world and the structure you posted is nice for me. Now i will work on attaching the forest to florence, making the collision detection work with the new scrolling engine (didn't notice that in the vid i did not touch any wall? ; ) and making the "floor 1" of the city and the forest (the things that are drawed above Leo, instead below). I'll keep all of you informed. 
to all It's very nice to see that positive feedback, I'm encouraged by your comments : ) Thanks for letting know that you like this. I'm glad that you liked the resolution changer and the new scroll!! : )) I will keep working hard! the word "illusion" Errr.. Sometimes I use this word, or say that "i'm illusioned".. I just found that this doesn't mean the same in our respective tongues.. : P When I say "i'm illusioned" i mean "i'm thrilled" or "i'm excited".. I'll try to use the correct word from now on. |
Posted By: jalonso
Date Posted: 10 November 2010 at 5:25pm
New Catacombs entrance and some cave in secret area. ------------- |
Posted By: JaumeAlcazo
Date Posted: 11 November 2010 at 8:43am
|
That looks great! : )
I send you a mail. I hope to post something new soon ; ) |
Posted By: jalonso
Date Posted: 13 November 2010 at 6:32pm
Florence interior teaser previews  ------------- |
Posted By: vlad61
Date Posted: 13 November 2010 at 6:37pm
|
Lol - i look forward to seeing the "Link style Jalonso interpretation of jesus" you are remarkably good artist man... do you even draw this stuff out first or just kinda plop it out?
EDIT: Maybe your shop table could show some kind of separation so that there is an exit and entree possibility plausible to the market owners? |
Posted By: JaumeAlcazo
Date Posted: 15 November 2010 at 3:38am
|
Hi jal! I have no words to describe how cool this is looking O_O!! You are doing great! : ))))))
As for me, I'm very sorry with the delay posting things! : /// I will tell you what happened. Yesterday I realized that I wasted a whole programming week trying to do this with the walls of the city: (I will call this from now on "autohiding") 
Only to find that the path i was following was a dead end : / I was very upset with myself for tracking a false way. For instance, yesterday I spent 5 hours on this, and before yesterday 4h. Well, it was a hard time, realizing that the lines and lines of code can be thrown to the garbage (and that with that time i could have implementing other things) but at least now finally I know how to carry on from now on. I will left out autohiding for the moment, and concentrate on "floor 1", and I need your help for this. This past week i did 3 things: 1 - Rewrited the collision detection to work with the new scrolling engine. THIS IS WORKING FINE! : ) 2 - Drawed the collisions for entire Florence. THIS IS WORKING FINE! : ) 3 - Wasted many hours trying to implement autohiding, realize that is better not to do this for the moment and realize that i will must concentrate on floor 1 of Florence for now. Explanation of why autohiding is not so easy to do: (I explain, so I can release myself, and undestand better what happened). - For programmers.. NO, IT CAN'T BE DONE WITH swapDepths()! Why? Because the chunks of the city are below Leo, and Leo is above them. And the blocking walls are INSIDE the chunks. Thus, you can't swapdepths with a movieclip that is INSIDE other movieclip (well, you can, but flash will ignore you : P) - First two obvious solutions: Put the blocking outside the chunks, or put Leo inside the chunks. The first one could be done, but it brings many problems of repositioning the blocking walls when entering/exiting buildings (and the blocking walls must be taking in account for the scroll), so it must be avoided at all prices. Second: it doesn't make sense to put Leo inside the chunks, because the chunks are destroyed constantly, so Leo would be destroyed when his chunk goes out from the screen. - Third "solution": Trying to cut the sprite of Leo when touching a wall from upside and restoring it when not touching. I tried this in 2 or 3 ways and did not work, I also tried to add a mask into the sprite and activating and unactivating it, but It didn't work as it should (mm.. i could retry this in the future, it should work with all that I know now). - Fourth "solution": Create a movieclip on the fly, when Leo touches a wall from upside. The mc (movieclip) should have the same width and height as the blocking wall, and only appear when touching from upside, and released (destroyed) when going out. It should follow the scroll. I did all of this. - Then I tried to mask the map chunks with this movieclips, to use the blending modes, etc.. The solution i found was to create a copy of the current chunk and mask it with the new mc created and destroyed on the fly, so it can crop Leo to the right size. This worked, but... - More problems, you must have in account the different forms of the blocking walls, the "L" walls, the inverted "L" walls, etc... when creating the mc.. It was a pain, but I did it, only to realize the final problem: - The final problem: sometimes when touching something from UPSIDE the hiding of the Leo feet should not be done! For example when aprouching a cliff from upside. - The solution to the final problem is to implement the "floor 1" and forgetting of autohiding for the moment. How to implement floor 1? - I'll draw another grid of map chunks, above the existing one, but with a greater z-depth, and it will be inside _root, but outside the first grid of chunks. I'll insert it in to the scroll and that's it!!! The solution was MUCH more easier than I was trying to do. jal, so I ask you now to... ...Help me with the "floor 1" (the things that should be drawed above Leo, for example, the roof of the cathedral and other things). I need it to be a layer with transparent background in the psd (as you did it) but instead of black pixels for the mask, it should have the real pixels that should be drawed above Leo. So i mean, instead a black cathedral roof in the mask layer, it should have a colorful cathedral roof. I need other things to be in the "floor 1" i marked them in the psd i send to you now. Please note that the doors should be half, half (as I show you), because when approaching from top the door should be above, and when approaching from bottom should be drawn below!! It's too much asking that the tree sprites are added to the mask? It should be added only the top half.. (colourful) Thank you very much and I'm very sorry for the delay !!!!!! I'll try to post something by the end of this current week as much late. Sorry!! Talk to you soon : ) |
Posted By: ChrisButton
Date Posted: 15 November 2010 at 4:48am
| Oh Jaume, is that picture from a link I posted you? I don't know much about swapdepths, but I'll look into it soon and see if I can help you. |
Posted By: JaumeAlcazo
Date Posted: 15 November 2010 at 5:00am
|
Yeah, Chris. It's from Tonypa's. That links were really cool (thanks : D), but It can't be done in the same way as Tonypa, mainly because you can't swapdepths() with a mc which is inside another mc.
The solution I've found is what I've written above, ("how to implement floor1"), that will work, but of course I would like to hear whatever you find out about this particular question : ) Thanks! |
Posted By: JaumeAlcazo
Date Posted: 15 November 2010 at 5:57am
Jal I forget that this parts should be also in the mask layer, because this should be drawed *above* Leo, when entering a house:
Remember, it would be better for me if the part I circle in yellow is in a separate layer (in his own layer too, of course),but *colourful*, not in black as in the previous version. |
Posted By: a3um
Date Posted: 18 November 2010 at 8:41am
| How could I overlook this thread :( I wanna join in the developers team if you don't mind:) I'd program it on J2ME. |
Posted By: Elk
Date Posted: 18 November 2010 at 10:58am
| im so impressed |
Posted By: jalonso
Date Posted: 18 November 2010 at 1:12pm
|
Originally posted by vlad61 L... do you even draw this stuff out first or just kinda plop it out? Mostly 'plop' here :) @a3um, just making tiles, not up to me. @Elk, :D Things were not Renaissance looking enough. Regular Item Shop + Special Chemistry-Biology-Ore Shop Mona Lisa's Crib, and the Library. In second room 2 chandeliers float and 2 stand on the floor :p    ------------- |
Posted By: bannanawalrus
Date Posted: 18 November 2010 at 2:20pm
|
just one thing, i love the squirly stuff where there is no building, but i think there needs to be a bit more "edging" on the shops rather than just going into the colour. also the library, but i dont know if that will be double height or something.looks awesome tho :)
|
Posted By: jalonso
Date Posted: 18 November 2010 at 7:18pm
|
@Bannana, I dunno about technicalities like that. Last Supper House, its a winery and restaurant. Basement is push puzzles. This interior is weird because almost all details come from the Last Supper painting and its surprisingly modern looking :/ - Especially those ceiling beams.  ------------- |
Posted By: Stratto
Date Posted: 18 November 2010 at 8:56pm
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Hey Jal, do you have animated water tiles yet? I haven't seen any, and it felt kind of important. Looking good tho, and excellent work Jaume! |
Posted By: JaumeAlcazo
Date Posted: 19 November 2010 at 10:54am
|
UPDATE 6
Hi all! ** EDITED: See the last update at the end of the thread ** Here comes update 6. I've been programming as fast as hell (so some bugs could have slipped in) and i'm not finished, it's very WIP, but is all what I've got right now. - You can wander around the whole Florence and whole forest. - I left the collisions detection visibles because I want all of you to see and to test, and tell me if you feel comfortable with this collisions. I'm worried about if they are too strong or too weak (I mean: too many freedom to the player or too less? or okay?). The collisions for Florence are the ones of jal (well, in fact I took his walkable zones and inverted to get the blocking zones). The collisions of the forest are drawed by me in a different color from jal and are half done, because they're much more specific and time consuming (from a discarded previous idea in which I planned to put every single f**king bush and tree top half into floor1, to have the low half drawed below Leo, and the top half drawed above Leo). I suggest jal to draw the walking areas for the forest in your style (and throw mines to garbage), that is much easier to implement (bigger blocks, less freedom to the player, but faster programming without loosing any gameplay experience). 
- The Floor 1 is done (the things that are drawed above Leo) for instance, the clock tower, the roof of the cathedral, the roof of the houses, the doors, etc.. jal, please take a look at the psd i send to you to see mainly the layers "floor1" and "block" and you will get an idea of what I'm doing and what I meant with the doors of the buildings. 
- You can change the "resolution" at the beginning. 
- You can enter only into the Cathedral (but can't exit, at the moment  i'll fix this).
- You can wander around the whole Cathedral. - The collision detection and floor1 of the Cathedral is not done yet. - The pope blinks and moves his head at random. - You can talk with the pope, following the conversation pattern I did for the another update.  </a>
- I tried to do the font for the dialog as a .ttf from your graphics, but had problems (i explain you in the mail), so I left out the "times 12 outlined" look for the moment. - I left out the music for the moment. - Leo now carries no wand. - Added our emails to the credits. - Added a "slower" in the stairs of the Cathedral, notice that Leo takes twice the time to go through stairs (he's and old man.. : P ) - Changed the fonts of the credits. - Made all the text (that i could find) *unselectable* by the player (with the mouse). If you can find any, please report. - Rewrited the automoving, blocking, and floor1 subsystems to work with the new scrolling system. - I wanted to show you a screenshot from the forest in-game: 
Suggestions to jal - Please jal, draw for me the walkable zones of the Cathedral or the blocking zones, following the reference of the psd I attach you for Florence. And please give me the "floor1" of Cathedral as a separate layer. - Please draw the walkable zones (or blocking ones) of the forest, following the psd I send you. - Weight plates in the ground for the dungeon, to make puzzles (you have to drop some weight in the plate to open something, etc..) - Traps for the dungeon, for instance.. a room that begins to push the walls with spikes against you to crush you, or the ceiling falls to crush you, like indiana jones or the last trap of the movie Saw V. Bug reporting - Please attach screenshot if you can, or explain well the situation and mention the "resolution" you are using (big, normal,...) Important gameplay decision (thoughs needed) - Well, I'll try to explain this with my poor english.. The resolution changer initially was to do the screen smaller. Initially, if you choosed smallest resolution I putted black things on the borders, so you could only see the same proportion of the map as you can see in "big" resolution. Then I removed the "black things" to do testings and then I realized that I did not want to put back the black things, because I liked seeing more map. The decision we must take is... 1 - I put back the black things.. and the player can see in "smallest" the same amount of map as "big". or.. 2- I do not put back the black things, i left it as is, but i fill the black holes that you can see now in smallest with the actual map (i "extend" the map to fill the whole screen in "smallest"). (also i would put the hud elements to the border of the screen, not in the middle, as are now in "smallest". Actually, the hud elements mark the limits of what you would normally see in "smallest" if i hadn't removed the black things) I think i like more the 2!!!! Seeing more map is cool if the player wants! isn'it? I need thoughs around this please! : ) One more idea Okay, we can't make him meet Bach, because Bach wasn't born, but... He could meet an ancestor of Bach!! (that we could completely invent.. maybe he has began the well tempered clavier and passes it unfinished to his sons.. hmmm... too fantastic and unhistorical? : PPP ) |
Posted By: stats
Date Posted: 19 November 2010 at 2:07pm
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When talking to the priest, and you say, I don't like you it should say Ha ha, I don't like you either!
Also, after wandering though walls in the catherdral I pressed 'A' randomly. 1. It brought up the dialog with the pope. 2. Tile background changed to the outside 3. The game locked up. |
Posted By: JaumeAlcazo
Date Posted: 22 November 2010 at 2:58am
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Thanks stats! : )
I'll fix that things! Is the game running smooth on your computer? It lags? |
Posted By: stats
Date Posted: 22 November 2010 at 1:34pm
| I did not have any lag while playing. |
Posted By: JaumeAlcazo
Date Posted: 22 November 2010 at 1:37pm
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Edit: Thanks stats!! great! Can you please tell me what type of computer do you have? ram memory and cpu speed mainly, please?
I just realized that a great cpu-consumer is the function onenterframe() The game plays at 40fps, so, all the code in all onenterframes() is evaluated 40 times a second. This is just absurd. For instance, instead of checking 40 times a second if you press LEFT to move Leo, I could check every 100 milliseconds, that is, 10 times a second, or less, probably with the player going unnoticed and doing 4 times less CPU calculations (the game 4 times faster? or 4 times less lag?) In other cases is even more absurd. The squarish invisible thing that is inside the Cathedral and checks if you touch it to move the background to the Cathedral... It checks 40 times a second if you touch it.. even when you are walking through Florence.. (with that chunk visible, of course.. when that chunk is invisible the invisible square is destroyed). Instead of that I could check only 1 time a second if you touch the invisible square that brings you inside the Cathedral. That would be 40 TIMES LESS CPU!! : )) In exchange of that (40 times less cpu), realize that the only "counterpart" (in the *worst* case) would be that the player only would have to wait 1 second between Leo enters the doors of the Cathedral and is teleported magically to the Cathedral interior!!! The player would never notice anything! Also, some filtering of the credit texts, or replacing completelly with images is maybe a good idea! |
Posted By: shampoop
Date Posted: 22 November 2010 at 2:54pm
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Hey JaumeAlcazo, As a fellow programmer I would like to advise against using the framerate as your timing mechanism when handling controls. Checking for control input every frame is bad programming practice as you are figuring out. I am not sure what language you are using and how you would go about doing this but usually, when a player supplies control input, you handle an exception fired from the input handler. From there you would update some data(character position for example) and, on the next frame, you would draw what your data tells you to draw. This way you do not have your application dependent on the FPS. BTW, what graphics engine/language are you using? Maybe I could help. |
Posted By: jalonso
Date Posted: 23 November 2010 at 8:17am
Cathedral ------------- |
Posted By: JaumeAlcazo
Date Posted: 23 November 2010 at 11:32am
O_o!! Amazing!!  I'll overwrite the current Cathedral with the new one!!!! : )
Shampoop Thank you very much! I use actionscript 2.0 as my programming language for this. Yesterday I did some tests on this.. I used setinterval() instead of onenterframe() for the Cathedral in/out, and it worked pretty well. I check 2 times a second if Leo is trying to enter/exit the Cathedral instead of checking 40 times a second. I tried to do the same on Leo, checking for player keys input every 100 milliseconds, with a custom function "fastonenterframe()" (that uses setinterval() ) but Leo moved in a weird form. Tried to change the intervals, but when it was beginning to move properly I realized that I was checking 50 times a second for player input (worse than before), so I switched back to the old onenterframe() for Leo, and leaved the fastenterframe() for the Cathedral in/out. About the exception fired by the input handler.. It would be very nice to do that!!..but I don't know how :'( At the moment I'm doing something like this with Leo: (i talk from memory, not accurate) Leo.onenterFrame=function(){ if(Key.isDown(KEY.LEFT)){ do_things_left(); }etc... } Do you know how can I get rid of enterframe() and use that exceptions, only when fired, on actionscript? Thank you very much!! EDIT: just realized that I was doing a key listener on the key "A" for the dialog with the priest xDD lol I will use that with keys left, right, up and down, for Leo, instead of checking every frame.. Sometimes I want to do something, i don't know how to do it, I think about it, and realize that I done it right in another part of the program.. lol xDD I guess that key listeners are faster (less cpu) than ontenterframes.. At least, it is the way it is supposed to be.. isn'it? By the way, I find an interesting thread on actionscript optimization: http://board.flashkit.com/board/showthread.php?s=7c98ef576b5ecdb3b1af19c3ddf903f0&t=434875 - http://board.flashkit.com/board/showthread.php?s=7c98ef576b5ecdb3b1af19c3ddf903f0&t=434875 |
Posted By: shampoop
Date Posted: 23 November 2010 at 12:11pm
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Good, glad I helped you point something out. Check this link out for more http://livedocs.adobe.com/flex/3/html/help.html?content=Capturing_User_Input_3.html - info or http://tutorials.flashmymind.com/2009/02/actionscript-3-keyboard-events/ - this . Okay, now I am wondering about how much of the background image you are drawing at the time. Do you load the whole image at once and simply slide the image around depending on what direction Leo is walking? I think this is why the game is sluggish. You see, A major reason game developers work with tiled backgrounds is so they can calculate what is displayed on the screen easier. This is how I have worked with tiles in the past. define an array string that represents the level being drawn "##########" "# #" "# ### #" "# T #" "##########" You would process these strings and use the chars as a mapping for what tile to display. For example, '#' would be a wall and 'T' would be a treasure. Now you know what to display, you just calculate where your character is in relation to the indexes of the array. Now just draw all the tiles within that array that you would see. I realize it is a lot of work to set this all up  but the nice thing is that you can make tweaks to levels in notepad without having to edit any image. This also makes collision detection easier because you are working with a grid and you know what indexes your player shouldn't be allowed to walk through.Hope that helps. |
Posted By: JaumeAlcazo
Date Posted: 23 November 2010 at 12:18pm
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Thankss!!
Thanks god, I only draw what is seen, as I explained somewhere in this thread : ) If not, it would be not playable.. Breaking the game into it's smallest tiles I think would be the greatest solution, but the more time-consuming one (for me and for jal, not for the cpu xD), so instead of that I chunked (in an automatic form) the world that jal gives me in chunks of 80x80pixels that are attached and removed dynamically : DD |
Posted By: jalonso
Date Posted: 23 November 2010 at 5:46pm
Last Supper Interior and an empty house ------------- |
Posted By: Psychotic_Carp
Date Posted: 26 November 2010 at 7:19pm
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This game looks gorgeous I wish I could help with the level designs but I just cant think of anything :( -------------  got game?
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Posted By: Stratto
Date Posted: 27 November 2010 at 12:39pm
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How about adding a hedge maze? There could be a small fountain in the center with a special item or something like that. |
Posted By: jalonso
Date Posted: 27 November 2010 at 9:33pm
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@stratto, itsa comin' Medici's Castle Originally posted by Ninja Crow ...Interestingly though, one of the most famous and influential composers of the Renaissance, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josquin_Desprez - Josquin des Prez (here is a small but better http://www.timelineindex.com/imagesThumb/255_2091.png - portrait ) was alive at the same time as Leonardo. And on top of this, Leonardo invented a special kind of 'piano' instrument, called a "viola organista" (which, if he had ever actually built, might have looked like this modern http://homepage1.nifty.com/obuchi/index-e.htm - re-creation ) which Josquin might have wanted to compose for. Josquin had been a member of the papal choir in Rome, so it's even conceivable that he could have crossed paths with Leonardo (although some historical dates will separate the possibility of this by about ten years, who's to say they couldn't have made a special trip?)... "viola organista" First floor invention room :) Leo didn't invent an elevator but he will now  Secret room leads to the catacombs. No ceiling shadows yet.  ------------- |
Posted By: Ninja Crow
Date Posted: 28 November 2010 at 3:35pm
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It's gorgeous and amazing work, J. -- I don't know how you do it! (I think an elevator is a terrific idea, but I'm a bit confused as to how all the rooms fit together.)
Heh, just need to critique the viola organista. (sorry!) First, it's beautiful, but it looks too much like a more modern piano. (and it's a bit small to be an obvious focal point) Here is a http://www.istitutopontevaltellina.it/alunni/leonardo/musica.jpg - picture of a v.o. by Leonardo himself that shows off at least one wheel, which is the defining feature of the v.o., as mentioned here: Originally posted by http://www.tamtamforpeace.org/index.php?section=pages&item=Viola-organista - tamtam for peace.org I think the long, tapering body is quite visually striking, and a decent contrast to modern instruments. Perhaps if the wheel was exaggerated to the point where it almost looks 'steampunk', it would make the clearest, most readable image (in the sense of representative icon)?
]Leonardo's original idea, as preserved in his notebooks of 14881489 and in the drawings in the Codex Atlanticus, was to use one or more wheels, continuously rotating, each of which pulled a looping bow, rather like a fanbelt in an automobile engine, and perpendicular to the instrument's strings. The strings would be pushed downward into the bow by the action of the keys, causing the moving bow to sound Also, I don't know how significant your label of 'invention room' was meant to be, but at the moment, the 'clutter' around the v.o. doesn't really look like workshop clutter, but more like casual knick-knacks in any large home's music room. I hope that's not too trivial -- this really is inspiring stuff despite those tiny reservations. -------------
!Strange Atoll - The Amazing Wilbot Game Project! |
Posted By: jalonso
Date Posted: 29 November 2010 at 8:38am
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The castle is 3 floors tall. big image is 1st floor. Medium is 2nd floor
and is a riddle shortcut to the small image which is the 3rd floor,
where Medici is. Once the 2nd floor is solved (door opens). After a while after elevator invention then Leo can just go to the 3rd floor. The collection room is a lot of knick-nacks because that's what I have so far, more stuff will be added when made. I thought a http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josquin_Desprez - Josquin des Prez character would be in there with his harpsichord and Leo has to help him by fixing his harpsichord with his v.o. invention or some other musical quest. Leo's drawing looks very vague and doesn't really look like an instrument based on his own drawing. I agree its small and dinky so I'll remake that with a wheel. Update with shadows and harpsicord/v.o. frames, per ninja :p I have lost total control of colors, over 100 now, o.O  ------------- |
Posted By: JaumeAlcazo
Date Posted: 29 November 2010 at 10:04am
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O_o!!! You always amaze me, how can you work so fast and so great!?! It's very cool! Don't worry about the colour count, we have no restriction, is looking good!
It's hard to keep your pace! :) If all goes well I hope to post update 7 by the ends of this week. Now I have in the game the new Cathedral with floor1 and collisions, the new Library with f1+collisions and working on Mona's house and the shops (they need a different type of scroll, a not chunked one). The castle is absolutelly amazing! May be when Leo fixes the harpsi, the musician goes away and let's Leo put his hands on it, to play something for doing some puzzle, as we talked in this thread? The most obvious puzzle is playing a certain combination to open some secret door. Have you played the videogame Coma, from Newgrounds? I mean something like this: 
Leo goes to prison xD Another idea is to have some prisoners in the underground floor, with some poor demons with long beard and chained, and an empty prison. As in Ultima games, may be when Leo tries to steal something (and there is a npcs around) the guards knock out him, fade to black, and he wakes up in the underground prison  secret switch and goes out
Scrolling improved I forget to tell that I did some optimizations and rewriting of the continous scrolling engine. Instead of attaching and removing the chunks, now they always are in memory, I just move them, and change the bitmap that is inside of them. This way is faster. Is like if in this video, instead of creating that insane amount of bullets, and erasing them when they go offscreen, imagine that i pick the bullet that goes offscreen and move it, and it's a new bullet that fires the boss. In this way we could save some instructions from the cpu, that may be handy later, with npc IA, and stuff like that. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sQZuidKexBQ - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sQZuidKexBQ The idea of the elevator and falling through the hole is very very cool! |
Posted By: jalonso
Date Posted: 29 November 2010 at 7:50pm
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Originally posted by JaumeAlcazo ...Don't worry about the colour count ... I always worry about color count :p Game start/entrance into Florence/tutorial/help screen. Ship comes and goes...WIP  ------------- |
Posted By: bannanawalrus
Date Posted: 30 November 2010 at 9:17am
| those rocks remind me of the rocks from Final fantasy 3(i think). awesome figurehead too. but on the left, i dont know what those rock plateau things are? they look gorgeous, but i just dont get what theyre supposed to be? |
Posted By: JaumeAlcazo
Date Posted: 30 November 2010 at 11:06am
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Hi jal!! The entrance is cool, but I have some thoughts on it (as always, only suggestions, take what you wish)
- It's the first thing the player sees in the game, so I think it should be very outstanding, as the Cathedral or the Library, or the Castle. It's cool now, but not as cool as Cathedral or Library or Castle. I think it should be the most outstanding thing of all the game: What the player sees first. - I imagined the docks with more ships, more busy, with more people, some sailors going up and down, carrying things in/out the ships, maybe people with more pirate look, people doing inventory recount of what the ship brought, etc.. Please review the introduction of when Jack Sparrow arrives at Port Royale: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qFG6KAd2ITI - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qFG6KAd2ITI I got one oil painting of a cool dock, I will post you when I find it. Meanwhile, I post you some other cool docks: 
- I don't think the entrance is needed to be so closed. It adds a feel of whe are in a "restricted" world... playing a game... Would'nt be better if we just don't let the player go down the docks when he reaches the bottom of the screen, without needing a physical barrier? - I feel we need some gulls on the docks, flying around and standing around there, at random intervals, maybe eating something from the floor, etc... In general, the feeling of a busy docks, as we feel in the movies, like Pirates of the Caribbean! : ) What do you think about it? - About the menu item. Is supposed that the player only can bring the menu of the inventary when he touches the item ? What happens when he touches the menu icon? |
Posted By: Ninja Crow
Date Posted: 30 November 2010 at 1:54pm
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@ jalonso: Before-and-after harpsichord is brilliant!
@ JaumeAlcazo: Those are cool docks -- if anyone can do it, jalonso can! -------------
!Strange Atoll - The Amazing Wilbot Game Project! |
Posted By: jalonso
Date Posted: 30 November 2010 at 4:28pm
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@Ninja, you're happy, I'm happy :D I do not object to the the Port idea proposed but I need to explain myself first as I am almost sure I disagree with it all: First and foremost a defined and stylized scene would make it useless for other cities. This is a generic port suitable for any city, not just Florence. As I envisioned this screen on game start the BG is irrelevant as its really just the intro story being told by the Ship's Captain who sets Leo on his way. The player is reading NOT admiring art. This is supported by cutscenes that sets the storyline and probably where Leo gets his first quest direction. Most of the time here the scene is hardly visible. When one starts a game the first few minutes are getting used to the gameplay and figuring things out. OTT backgrounds is work for nothing. When a player comes here for help and 'how to play' the last thing they need is seagulls flying and merchants pushing cargo. The scene may seem big but a lot of it is not even ever going to be seen at all. I designed the mockup and have made these tiles based on the play 'window' resolution shown in pink below. When Leo moves to the extreme right or left left of the screen (the light blue areas) is the only thing that will be on screen. All the red areas have no reason or need to be seen and are there because in Laying out the Florence tiles they landed there. Story panels, cutscenes and help popups will cover most of the area so there is no time to admire the scenery. Its an adventure and quest game not a sight seeing tour : /  Again, I am not opposed, just explaining what I was thinking when making it. ------------- |