Help with skin
Printed From: Pixel Joint
Category: Pixel Art
Forum Name: WIP (Work In Progress)
Forum Discription: Get crits and comments on your pixel WIPs and other art too!
URL: https://pixeljoint.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=12250
Printed Date: 10 June 2026 at 1:37pm
Topic: Help with skin
Posted By: Manuziari
Subject: Help with skin
Date Posted: 31 May 2011 at 3:33pm
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Null |
Replies:
Posted By: Manuziari
Date Posted: 31 May 2011 at 6:02pm
| I hope jalonso helps me! AAAH |
Posted By: jalonso
Date Posted: 31 May 2011 at 7:58pm
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Help can come from anyone not just me, k. I will not make an edit for you because I think you will fail to learn one of the most basic art skills. Developing forms and shapes. see http://www.fotosearch.com/PSK125/1574r-018898/ - THIS for basic chest shapes. see http://images.myspace.drewpydraws.com/animeGuyWetTowel.jpg - THIS anime chest which closely resembles what you are trying to do. see http://www.posemaniacs.com/archives/1092 - THIS from a great site for body references In my opinion your problem is mostly color choices. You have colors that don't help you define shape and volume. Check out these colors and notice how with just a few colors shapes are created. ../files/icons/full/troy.gif">  ../files/icons/full/kate005.png">  The chain has some problem because its almost to the shoulders and not around the neck. It also looks more like beads instead of chain links. The cross is not proportionate as the vertical and the horizontal have different widths. ------------- |
Posted By: Rebolation?
Date Posted: 01 June 2011 at 2:44am
Olá Manuziari, o rogerjian postou o http://www.pixeljoint.com/pixelart/62300.htm?sec=date - Kylin Zhang de corpo:
Espero ajudar-lo. |
Posted By: Manuziari
Date Posted: 01 June 2011 at 6:09am
| Thanks to both of you. Jalonso chain was done like that on purpose but I'll try to change it. Thank you. |
Posted By: Manuziari
Date Posted: 01 June 2011 at 6:21am
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That's very hard. I don't know where to put them (Muscles) Can anyone show me some edit? Showing the position of the muscles. |
Posted By: Manuziari
Date Posted: 01 June 2011 at 6:44am
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Null |
Posted By: Juniorps
Date Posted: 01 June 2011 at 6:54am
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You should not use very square shapes, drop the point home, these are really ugly square shapes, I do not know but I think this base of 80x80 will not generate a nice thing for you or not.
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Posted By: Manuziari
Date Posted: 01 June 2011 at 8:01am
| Shape must be squared 80x80 to be used as avatar in Pixelaria. |
Posted By: W M
Date Posted: 01 June 2011 at 8:13am
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/857/bodyedit01b.png/"> I have to leave right now, but I'll explain my (very rough) edit later and possibly edit the colors. |
Posted By: cure
Date Posted: 01 June 2011 at 9:30am
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don't fake the anatomy, know the anatomy. there's no quick trick to getting the muscles right, other than learning human musculature. right now the pectorals fade directly into the collarbones, and the pecs themselves are too small. Draw the whole torso so you get the proportions right. You can always crop it down to avatar size later. |
Posted By: vlad61
Date Posted: 01 June 2011 at 11:02am
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Great edit W M
@Manuziari - I think one of the important things to understand that cure points out is exactly that, there is no shortcut to doing good art. no secret trick that no one is telling you about. As a noob you have to work ALOT harder then the professionals do to get good results, you have to take your time. When I see your work it really doesn't look like you spent too much time on it. W M's edit is already extremely nice and you should not expect that on everything you come here requiring help on.. |
Posted By: Manuziari
Date Posted: 01 June 2011 at 4:30pm
| Ok. I'll do a edit and then I'll post here. Thanks. |
Posted By: Manuziari
Date Posted: 01 June 2011 at 5:46pm
There it's |
Posted By: Alex Pang
Date Posted: 02 June 2011 at 1:03am
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Don't just copy his work make your own or you wont learn a thing.
Maybe don't have such a gradual change in shades just have two or three shades with big contrast, and just add some AA on the corners ;) |
Posted By: Manuziari
Date Posted: 02 June 2011 at 5:39pm
| I didn't copy anything. Actually I just looked the position of the muscles, I did not edited VM's version. |
Posted By: Manuziari
Date Posted: 02 June 2011 at 5:50pm
New edit: |
Posted By: Manuziari
Date Posted: 02 June 2011 at 6:32pm
New edit again: |
Posted By: Manuziari
Date Posted: 02 June 2011 at 7:10pm
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Where's everyone? |
Posted By: cure
Date Posted: 02 June 2011 at 8:00pm
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stop bumping your topic or I'll lock it. it hasn't even been an hour since your last post. refrain from triple posting as well. that's why we have an 'edit' button on every post. your last two edits are identical as far as I can tell anyway. - - - Now that you’ve been reminded of proper forum etiquette, we can proceed to the piece itself. What’s happening where the clavicles (collar bones) meet? You’ve drawn a straight line that dips, but what really happens between the collar bones? Don’t you have collarbones? Go to the mirror and observe them, you have the perfect reference right below your head. How far do the abs (stomach muscles, also known as abdominals) extend? Use google, get a reference of human musculature. Where are the obliques? How do the obliques (which are muscles) relate to the abdominals? How many abdominals does he have? What shape are they? The cross bars still have different widths. It looks odd. Where is your light source? Right now you’re almost pillow-shading. If the light source is from above, the pectorals (chest muscles) should cast a shadow on the underside. Same for the abs. Your palette is washed out. Use a better range of values (more contrast- darker darks). |
Posted By: Manuziari
Date Posted: 02 June 2011 at 9:04pm
| Sorry for the triple post. But edits aren't identical, anyway. Thanks I'll try to fix it. |
Posted By: rustEdge
Date Posted: 02 June 2011 at 10:44pm
Try to redefine the lighting you're using for your piece. You've got pillow shading on most of the body which suggests frontal diffused lighting, but the necklace beads have sharp speculars suggesting a strong overhead light. Then you've got some strange shading on the cross, sharp speculars on opposing sides.
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Posted By: W M
Date Posted: 03 June 2011 at 5:29am
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Take note of how my edit is asymmetrical (the muscles mimic symmetry, but are not technically symmetrical, especially because they expand/contract and because of genetics) -- this gives the body a more organic feeling. Remember that you're representing an organic, imperfect form, not one that was engineered with absolute precision.
Use the brush tool and lay down your colors. You can easily find a reference online and 'paint' from that. You want to be a little loose about it at first, and then refine on a single-pixel level. When drawing the torso, I usually focus on the abdominal wall and the pectorals and how they relate to each other. I then move on to the collarbone and how it sits above the pectorals, and then the trapezius and how it runs along the collar. The pecs suggest the width of the shoulders, mainly because they can be seen as 'hanging off' the shoulders. You're still boxing in your picture and drawing attention to its size limitation. You do this by running dark colors along the edge of the canvas, smushing the subject inside the frame rather than letting it run off the edge. Let the pecs extend out of the picture, shading and all. Good improvement all around though: you're starting to get the idea of dynamic, wholesome shading. |
Posted By: Manuziari
Date Posted: 03 June 2011 at 8:09am
Well I fix it somethings not all but there it's: I still didn't find a good palette can someone show me? And I just don't get it what cure said about abdominals. |
Posted By: cure
Date Posted: 03 June 2011 at 12:38pm
| can I see the muscle references you're currently working from? |
Posted By: Manuziari
Date Posted: 03 June 2011 at 2:29pm
 |
Posted By: cure
Date Posted: 03 June 2011 at 2:46pm
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It would help a ton if you got a real reference. Not another artist's anime simplification of muscles. You need to learn actual musculature from the source, not diluted through cartoons. look at http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_GzXYfK-lDG4/S_T_jWYLRYI/AAAAAAAAIXc/N3GCyG98p0g/s1600/Din+Dan+Half-naked+picture.jpg - real people look at accurate http://www.discoveryyoga.com/oblique-abdominals-anatomy.jpg - depictions of the underlying muscles this way, you can understand what you're trying to draw, rather than just mimicking another artist's understanding (which might not be a very thorough understanding at all) |
Posted By: Manuziari
Date Posted: 03 June 2011 at 2:54pm
| Jalonso told me to use this one. But okay I'll try to use the other one. Any tips? |
Posted By: Manuziari
Date Posted: 03 June 2011 at 5:45pm
| I think I can call it finish. Everyone agree? |
Posted By: cure
Date Posted: 03 June 2011 at 6:23pm
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you're free to call it finished whenever you want, but there's
definitely room for learning and improvement. you haven't even started
using real references yet. don't get me wrong, it's a big improvement, but it seems like you mostly copied what you saw WM do in his edit, and haven't learned anything about anatomy that will help you in the future. It feels like you're waiting on us to give you some sort of advice that will complete this piece. like "do this or that" and then that's that, it's finished. there aren't any "tips" that we can impart to you that we haven't already. look at the references, study the references, try to understand the structure of what you're trying to depict. it's like a test in school, if you want to do the best that you possibly can, you have to study. here's an edit. study it, but try not to copy what i've done. try to understand why i've made the changes I made by looking at real muscles.  keep it up, it's already improved a lot since the first post, but you could push it further if you desired. (also noticed that I changed the colors, as I said before, yours are pretty washed out, you need more contrast to make the muscles pop) |
Posted By: Manuziari
Date Posted: 03 June 2011 at 6:36pm
| Ok I understand but I didn't copy WM's edit. I'm here to learn so I use his edit as reference. I just looked at the position of the muscles any problem with that? I don't think so. Well, thank you. |
Posted By: cure
Date Posted: 03 June 2011 at 6:45pm
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I'm not accusing you of dishonesty, or stealing his edit. as you said, you looked at the position of the muscles he placed, and replicated that. that's what I mean by copying. I'm not saying "shame on you, you copied!" the problem with that is that you deny yourself the chance to understand the subject matter and learn from the edit. you saw that he placed things differently, but without studying muscles yourself, do you understand why he made the changes he made? That's the important part- the 'why'. If you don't know 'why' he made his changes, then you can't replicate his improvements in the future, you'll always rely on edits. (as a side note, it's kind of annoying when folks remove their earlier work in a WIP thread. how are we supposed to be able to tell how much you've improved?) |
Posted By: Manuziari
Date Posted: 03 June 2011 at 7:32pm
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I'm working on this piece right now, soon I'll post here. I have all the WIPs here don't get said. xD |
Posted By: Manuziari
Date Posted: 03 June 2011 at 7:58pm
What about now mr.cure? |
Posted By: cure
Date Posted: 03 June 2011 at 11:12pm
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better, the new colors read much better. the abs still need work though, namely the obliques are missing the obliques are the smaller muscles to the sides of the abs, check this ref I posted earlier:  right now the abs just sort of taper off, and it's unclear what happens toward the edges. I also think the space between the collar bones is too sharp. feel around this area on yourself with your fingers to get a good feel for the shape. |
Posted By: Manuziari
Date Posted: 04 June 2011 at 8:09am
 I think now is better. |
Posted By: jalonso
Date Posted: 04 June 2011 at 8:58am
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While it does look better now than when you started I fear you are learning very little and depending on doing what others have shown instead of understanding the 'why' of the comments. You will need to practice and practice anatomy and shapes and volumes and all the art basics if you are to truly improve. I have noticed over time that PJ members enjoy helping others when effort, dedication and perseverance is shown. Those who show otherwise get less and less help and eventually ignored. If you want to be helped you must help yourself too. No one is asking that you be an expert right away. Just that you show that you are understanding and using the c+c given to you at whatever speed works for you as long as its working. ------------- |
Posted By: Manuziari
Date Posted: 04 June 2011 at 9:12am
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Seriously dude, I don't know what else to do, I'm here to improve my pixel art, then they give me tips and I do, if I don't needed help I would not posted here. What do you want me to do? Delete everything and make an ugly one? What you want me to do man? I came here without knowing anything about muscles now I kinda know something this isn't enough? If I post it everyone'll say that I'm copying? I don't understand. |
Posted By: rustEdge
Date Posted: 04 June 2011 at 1:38pm
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It's not like that.
Let's use a traditional example. When you draw, how often do you erase when working on a single sketch? Will you ever make it to a point where you'll think that it would be more efficient to start from scratch? Or if you're cooking. If you're trying a recipe for the first time and it doesn't turn out right, do you keep adding ingredients until you get it right, or try cooking another batch? While you're learning, it's not healthy to keep using the same base every time. At least from how we see it, it's like you're applying the critiques by painting over your original work, hoping that eventually it'll look acceptable. Like painting abs on a fat guy and hope it passes as a ripped hunk. Just try this. Paint the muscles from scratch. Just a quick sketch. It's more likely that you would see a larger improvement on your piece. Edit: I also happened to start drawing because of anime. And I've even seen books like how to draw Dragon Ball style. They don't really help. All they do is teach you to stick to conventions without figuring out why. Why are noses drawn like that? Why are there no eyelids? Why are muscles so broken? All styles are based on traditional/realistic art. They might seem unrelated, but believe me they do. Keep drawing enough realistic characters and any style you work on would improve, no matter how stylized they are. |