How do you manage to keep your cool?
Printed From: Pixel Joint
Category: The Lounge
Forum Name: Diversions
Forum Discription: Get to know your fellow pixel freaks. Chat about anything to do with video games, comic books, anime, movies, television, books, music, sports or any other off topic bs you can think of.
URL: https://pixeljoint.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=13164
Printed Date: 13 September 2025 at 1:06pm
Topic: How do you manage to keep your cool?
Posted By: seiseki
Subject: How do you manage to keep your cool?
Date Posted: 14 October 2011 at 6:00am
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So.. I recently started hanging out around pixelation and pixel joint.. Previously mostly as a lurker.
There are some fantastic art pieces here, but also a few ridiculous ones, and I don't mean ridiculously good ones.. How do you keep your cool and comment on a piece where the maker either has no clue, not making an effort or totally lacks perspective on his work? I find that people make the most ridiculous things, like "hey guys I made a cloth hanger.." It's like, someone just messes around in mspaint and draws a few lines and "oh god that looks just like a cloth hanger, amazing!" and posts here.. Most people say things like "I'm new" or "I'm a total noob".. which is fine, but if you know that, shouldn't you put in some extra effort and do some research, look at reference materials, tutorials, etc? Some of the work posted lacks any similarities to the real thing which makes me pull out my hairs thinking why would you do that? Why not simply make a google image search, you can't possibly think that looks like the real thing? It's like they start of with nothing and then they draw something which turns into a vaguely similar real thing and it's such an amazing improvement.. The worst part is that I sometimes suspect that people are trolling with bad art.. Especially since it's either the amazingly good or ridiculously bad art that gets the most feedback. Somewhat ok or rather good art doesn't get that much feedback since it might be harder to point out the flaws.. I realize that all this might sound quite arrogant. But all I'm asking is for some people to get some perspective. If you think something looks terrible, find out why and redo it. I've gone from being quite lame at pixel art to being quite decent. But it took a lot of effort, research and of course also feedback and pointers from others. |
Replies:
Posted By: jalonso
Date Posted: 14 October 2011 at 7:29am
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Originally posted by seiseki So.. I recently started hanging out around pixelation and pixel joint.. Previously mostly as a lurker. About time :p Originally posted by seiseki There are some fantastic art pieces here, but also a few ridiculous ones, and I don't mean ridiculously good ones.. Do you mean simply on the creative level, visual level or a technical level? Do you separate your own aesthetics when viewing other's work or do you hide behind your prejudices? Originally posted by seiseki How do you keep your cool and comment on a piece where the maker either has no clue, not making an effort or totally lacks perspective on his work? How do you determine these assessments? Do you simply look at the art itself or you you look at the artist's gallery to see their individual level, skill set and progress? Take this piece by member_profile.asp?PF=31231&FID=8 - Andrew-M . It started like this   On the flip side take this piece ../files/icons/full/abstract_composition.png"> by the talented ../p/16700.htm - lucas_irineu . It looks creative and unique and falls well within the scope of being 'artsy'. However, this piece was submitted after this piece  ../files/icons/full/lennon__r1719167001.png">  The difference here when looking at the work basing all opinions on their own proven skills is all technical. This piece is not good for adding to the gallery because its a step back for him. Perhaps that same piece by someone else is an improvement and thus good. Don't know the point I'm making is clear :/ Originally posted by seiseki I find that people make the most ridiculous things, like "hey guys I made a cloth hanger.." It's like, someone just messes around in mspaint and draws a few lines and "oh god that looks just like a cloth hanger, amazing!" and posts here.. Again, this is relative. We like to think when we add any piece we've made a decent judgment call on whether its suitable for inclusion to the gallery. We never judge one artist to another, just to themselves. Not everyone is a pixeart 'painter' making higher level art. Many are game spriters and game developers and concentrate on game assets only, or icon makers. If you have enough background for a piece perhaps you can say a piece is just a few lines thrown around but it can be relative too. You can simply remove all these variables and look at the pixel placements and determine if enough skill and precision is used which when it comes down to it is all pixelart needs to label itself properly. Originally posted by seiseki Most people say things like "I'm new" or "I'm a total noob".. which is fine, but if you know that, shouldn't you put in some extra effort and do some research, look at reference materials, tutorials, etc? Whenever these terms are used the person is really saying that they still feel inadequate and trying to learn. Practice does make perfect so if you base these noob pieces on the person's current level they could well be good enough. Just because it 'looks like that' does not mean a person has not researched, used refs or put lots of effort. Its important enough to note that the person felt satisfied enough and possessed enough pride in their piece to submit and show others which is the hallmark of extra effort. Originally posted by seiseki Some of the work posted lacks any similarities to the real thing which makes me pull out my hairs thinking why would you do that? Why not simply make a google image search, you can't possibly think that looks like the real thing? It's like they start of with nothing and then they draw something which turns into a vaguely similar real thing and it's such an amazing improvement.. Does art in any form need to look real? Are we making art or taking photographs? If you truly feel like pulling your hair often then you are far too judgmental and look at art through a very limited scope and without yet investigating (*adds to my 'to-do' list*) almost surely know your own art is hampered and your creative growth stumped :( Originally posted by seiseki The worst part is that I sometimes suspect that people are trolling with bad art.. Especially since it's either the amazingly good or ridiculously bad art that gets the most feedback. Somewhat ok or rather good art doesn't get that much feedback since it might be harder to point out the flaws.. Yes, some people do troll in art. This is a sign of insecurity. We can't control this entirely and we reject what we can but some piece could inevitably get thru and for this we provide a 'report art' on every page. PJ is community driven...members shouldn't just ride in the back seat and enjoy the view. Art is a visual communication medium and in pixelart or any other form indeed the amazingly good, ridiculously bad and the controversial will always get the most reaction. Originally posted by seiseki I realize that all this might sound quite arrogant. But all I'm asking is for some people to get some perspective. If you think something looks terrible, find out why and redo it. It does not sound arrogant IT IS arrogant. An artist never thinks their work looks terrible...its their vision expressed with whatever skill level they currently possess. What perspective should everyone have exactly, to meet your criteria? Do you take an artist's age, experience or anything else into account? If a pixelartist has some disability like say... no legs or arms and pixels with whatever body protrusion they have left what perspective should they aquire? Originally posted by seiseki I've gone from being quite lame at pixel art to being quite decent. But it took a lot of effort, research and of course also feedback and pointers from others. Your gallery is entirely empty of art, favorites and comments o.O ART- Whether you are lame or decent is up for debate. FAVORITES- Have you found nothing fantastic yet? Can you even be pleased? COMMENTS- YOU DO KEEP YOUR COOL  What's the point here ------------- |
Posted By: seiseki
Date Posted: 14 October 2011 at 11:14am
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Haha, first off all I'm not actually here for a gallery or the gallery itself, I'm just checking out the forums..
But perhaps I'm missing something.. :> Also I'm only referring to the wip-forums with this post. Do you mean simply on the creative level, visual level or a technical level?
Do you separate your own aesthetics when viewing other's work or do you hide behind your prejudices? Who doesn't have prejudices? I can't say on what levels I judge something, it's probably a combination of all, on a case-by-case basis. What I'm talking about is work that lacks on pretty much all levels, if a work is really creative and has unique aesthetics that usually triumphs over technical stuff. When someone posts a 16x16 cloth hanger sprite it's mostly about the technical part.. (that's just a random example, I haven't actually seen any cloth hangers) An artist never thinks their work looks terrible
Well, perhaps I'm not an artist.. But I've done a lot of terrible work.. Some of it posted on pixelation. The most terrible stuff I never bother to post. I mean I can understand that it's easy to stare yourself blind at stuff you're designing, that's why forums like these are so great. But seriously, where do you draw the line of ridiculousness. A 2x2px soccer ball? I really like helping out with comments, but a few cases seem like they're not putting in an effort.. The examples you provided show that the artists at least have a clue what they're doing and have put in an effort, I'm not saying certain art is bad because it's minimalistic or doesn't have extensive shading. |
Posted By: greenraven
Date Posted: 14 October 2011 at 11:24am
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Originally posted by seiseki How do you keep your cool and comment on a piece where the maker either has no clue, not making an effort or totally lacks perspective on his work? That right there is a prelude to an elitist tirade, the rotten goo at the heart of PJ's core, too many artists share a similar viewpoint. How do you keep your cool? It's quite simple really. Don't look at others as inferior artists. ~ Mark Twain Originally posted by seiseki I find that people make the most ridiculous things, like "hey guys I made a cloth hanger.." It's like, someone just messes around in mspaint and draws a few lines and "oh god that looks just like a cloth hanger, amazing!" and posts here.. Art is a battlefield, to each his own. Besides, you do realize that the average user is about 13 years old right? What were you proud of at 13? Whatever it was, I'm willing to bet it was mediocre and passe too. Originally posted by seiseki Most people say things like "I'm new" or "I'm a total noob".. which is fine, but if you know that, shouldn't you put in some extra effort and do some research, look at reference materials, tutorials, etc? Again, take the age factor into consideration. And the fact that everyone has a different learning curve. Once people ripen and mature enough the realize that critique is not a personal assault against them, they will want to improve on their own. Time and patience, time and patience. Originally posted by seiseki The worst part is that I sometimes suspect that people are trolling with bad art.. Here's what you do, it's quite simple really: Leave it to the professionals.  Originally posted by seiseki I realize that all this might sound quite arrogant. Quite right you are my good man, quite right you are. Originally posted by seiseki But all I'm asking is for some people to get some perspective. If you think something looks terrible, find out why and redo it. I've gone from being quite lame at pixel art to being quite decent. But it took a lot of effort, research and of course also feedback and pointers from others. Good for you, but not everyone is you. Some people learn slower, some people learn faster. -------------  "pwnage comes with patience, practice and planning." ~ Jalonso 
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Posted By: shampoop
Date Posted: 14 October 2011 at 11:47am
2x2 soccer ball, that's a great idea. (  )see it?
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Posted By: seiseki
Date Posted: 14 October 2011 at 12:08pm
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Originally posted by shampoop
2x2 soccer ball, that's a great idea. ( )see it?
Yeah.. but I think you should put the black pixels in a / instead of a \ because now it just looks horrible :/ Seriously though.. Just the other day I was actually thinking of how elitist I've started to become.. And I guess this post just proves it.. I mean I'm not that good at pixel art, but I still have a pretty realistic perspective on things. I tend to never finish things because I'm never satisfied most likely due to setting to high standards. But still, I think there are a lot of people who think like this, but most keep it to themselves. If I'm arrogant for saying it out loud then so be it :P I think everyone has a limit on when things start getting ridiculous.. But it's not really that I look down on others works it's just I think some people could put it some more effort and most importantly get a better perspective on things before posting. And yes, when I was 12-14 I was kinda retarded. I don't think I'd get a long at all with my 12 year old self.. That guy really needed some perspective. |
Posted By: CELS
Date Posted: 14 October 2011 at 12:13pm
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I don't know. It's easy to accuse seiseki of being arrogant, but I think he raises some interesting points. Let's face it, the examples of Andrew-M's tree and xxmantisxx' head piece, where relatively low skilled pixel artists are able to progress greatly due to hard work, trial and error and the help from the community... those examples are few and far in between. However, I don't think seiseki is right about which WIP threads people respond to. Actually, I think the amazingly good and the least good contributions are most easily ignored. When guys like miumau0, jalonso, delicious, jinn, cyangmou, etc start WIP threads, I rarely have anything to offer, so I tend not to reply. I think a lot of people are in that position. When someone posts a picture of a 16 x 16 pixel coat hanger, I don't reply unless no one else replies. To answer some original questions: 1) How do you keep your cool? Personally, I try to keep in mind that most of the stuff that looks like it was drawn by children is very often actually drawn by children. A lot of posters here are 13 years old, yet people offer feedback as if they were adults. Only rarely will a 30-year old man post a picture of a 16x16 pixel coat hanger. But on the internet, people have a tendency of assuming that everyone else is a mature adult. 2) How do you make a comment when people make no effort? Let's not kid ourselves here. 99% of the people here will ignore someone who appears to make no effort. Maybe you make a quick reply now and then, and if they persist and continue to improve, you spend more time on them. And when someone posts a WIP image of relatively low quality, 90% of the replies are one-liners about references, pillow shading or jaggies. When the TS makes no effort, the replies are given with little effort. Good thread. I hope people see that seiseki is asking "How can I find the motivation to help people", rather than asking "Why do you guys bother". Or at least, that's the way I choose to interpret this thread. |
Posted By: seiseki
Date Posted: 14 October 2011 at 12:20pm
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I'm honestly not sure what the point is. But it started with me tearing my hair out when looking at certain WIPs..
I guess now it's a combination of why do they do that, why do I do this, where is the limit? :D But let me state that I have full respect for people who want to improve and show some effort into doing just that. I think I'm gonna go draw a 16x16 coat hanger just as a forum experiment.. trolling is a form of art as well right? ;) |
Posted By: greenraven
Date Posted: 14 October 2011 at 12:48pm
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Originally posted by seiseki I tend to never finish things because I'm never satisfied most likely due to setting to high standards. Welcome to the club. But you don't see me taking my frustrations out on others by belittling their work. Originally posted by CELS But on the internet, people have a tendency of assuming that everyone else is a mature adult. Now, now, you give the internet too much credit. Originally posted by CELS But on the internet, people have a tendency of assuming that everyone else is an Much better.  Originally posted by seiseki perspective You keep throwing this word around, I'm interested to know what it means. ------------- "pwnage comes with patience, practice and planning." ~ Jalonso
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Posted By: jalonso
Date Posted: 14 October 2011 at 1:07pm
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Originally posted by seiseki ...I'm only referring to the wip-forums with this post... Well it is a forum to improve and refine pixelart. The main gallery is for finished art. You have to expect creative disarray in the forum, especially the WIP section. It is precisely by expressing yourself that pieces get help thru feedback. If you have something to say or share, do so. Just try to be objective and don't get frustrated at the learning curve of others. The one person you help makes up for the 100 that ignore you...works for me. ------------- |
Posted By: seiseki
Date Posted: 14 October 2011 at 2:26pm
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Originally posted by greenraven
Originally posted by seiseki Welcome to the club. But you don't see me taking my frustrations out on others by belittling their work.I tend to never finish things because I'm never satisfied most likely due to setting to high standards. I've never belittled anyones work, and I don't tend to take out my frustrations others. I always try to be as constructive as possible, either in pointing out flaws or offering advice. Originally posted by greenraven
Originally posted by seiseki You keep throwing this word around, I'm interested to know what it means.
perspective I mean that if you keep saying "I'm a total noob" and post stuff, go and look at tutorials or other peoples art and compare to your own and learn what you can.. |
Posted By: greenraven
Date Posted: 14 October 2011 at 3:03pm
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Originally posted by seiseki I've never belittled anyones work, and I don't tend to take out my frustrations others. I always try to be as constructive as possible, either in pointing out flaws or offering advice. Well, here's the thing. You started the topic by asking "how to keep your cool" when talking with others. "Keeping your cool" implies rage or anger, both of those are generally associated with frustration and superiority. Originally posted by seiseki I mean that if you keep saying "I'm a total noob" and post stuff, go and look at tutorials or other peoples art and compare to your own and learn what you can.. Hmm... I really wouldn't call that perspective. Some people enjoy oekaki and other "less disciplined" art forms as a hobby. Does everything need to be the pinnacle of perfection? ------------- "pwnage comes with patience, practice and planning." ~ Jalonso
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Posted By: seiseki
Date Posted: 14 October 2011 at 3:16pm
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Originally posted by greenraven
Well, here's the thing. You started the topic by asking "how to keep your cool" when talking with others. "Keeping your cool" implies rage or anger, both of those are generally associated with frustration and superiority. Hm, true, the title does imply that I can't keep my cool. Which is quite far from the truth as I rarely rage.. But I do facepalm and sigh a lot ;P Originally posted by greenraven
Hmm... I really wouldn't call that perspective. Some people enjoy oekaki and other "less disciplined" art forms as a hobby. Does everything need to be the pinnacle of perfection? Well, in a perfect world.. No, not really.. I just wish some people would put in a bit more effort.. And also, what's so exciting about drawing cloth hangers, 2x2 soccer balls, etc.. The motifs some people choose kinda baffles me.. |
Posted By: greenraven
Date Posted: 14 October 2011 at 5:42pm
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Originally posted by seiseki And also, what's so exciting about drawing cloth hangers, 2x2 soccer balls, etc.. The motifs some people choose kinda baffles me..  ------------- "pwnage comes with patience, practice and planning." ~ Jalonso
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Posted By: CELS
Date Posted: 14 October 2011 at 5:55pm
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greenraven, was that meant as a retort or as a nod of agreement? I'm not sure. |
Posted By: greenraven
Date Posted: 14 October 2011 at 6:59pm
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*shrugs* It was a quote followed by a picture of a painting of picture painted cans, what people choose to think of it is out of my hands.
------------- "pwnage comes with patience, practice and planning." ~ Jalonso
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Posted By: cure
Date Posted: 15 October 2011 at 8:17pm
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Warhol's pop art exists within a certain context. It isn't just pictures of cans, it's a comment on art and the art world that relates to the atmosphere in which it was created. rest of the thread: tl;dr |
Posted By: zch
Date Posted: 16 October 2011 at 4:36am
Here's a troll with coat hanger and 2x2 football for you all :)
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Posted By: seiseki
Date Posted: 16 October 2011 at 6:39am
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Originally posted by zch
Here's a troll with coat hanger and 2x2 football for you all :)
lol, post it! :D |
Posted By: AlexHW
Date Posted: 17 October 2011 at 12:09am
| Sometimes it's not so much what you say but that you say anything at all. A person willing to learn, will learn. a person willing to listen, will listen. Sometimes a person's motive for posting is to simply get a response and maybe be motivated to continue. You can't force a person to do anything or to instantly understand a concept to a point where they can produce perfect results. You may tell them one thing, and they may do something entirely different, but if you've helped them do something, then it all works out in the long run. |