Animating! ... crap.
Printed From: Pixel Joint
Category: Pixel Art
Forum Name: WIP (Work In Progress)
Forum Discription: Get crits and comments on your pixel WIPs and other art too!
URL: https://pixeljoint.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=13440
Printed Date: 10 September 2025 at 10:52am
Topic: Animating! ... crap.
Posted By: slym
Subject: Animating! ... crap.
Date Posted: 26 November 2011 at 12:49pm
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After finishing http://www.pixeljoint.com/pixelart/66704.htm - http://www.pixeljoint.com/pixelart/66704.htm , I felt that I needed to animate the characters. The mockup itself was one of the only pieces that I actually feel is complete in my gallery. Anyway, this is what I'm currently working on. As you can tell I am not an animator xD
Oldest 
Newest 
Current Idle: 
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Replies:
Posted By: cure
Date Posted: 26 November 2011 at 1:34pm
| needs a much larger bow and much more extreme movement, this looks like a grown man playing with a toy bow. google video of someone actually drawing an arrow, the hand is back near the head and shoulder, and the arm is much higher. |
Posted By: Hapiel
Date Posted: 26 November 2011 at 1:35pm
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I think that bow should be angled way more upwards to have the arrow go upwards. Also, if I would should an arrow my body would be leaning backwards more than it would be leaning forwards, unlike your character does. if you fix those two things it probably looks much more natural! ------------- |
Posted By: Partack
Date Posted: 26 November 2011 at 1:44pm
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yeah, totally not dramatic enough. that drawing arm needs to go WAY back. Archers pull the hand towards and past their face and aim the arrow at eye level which means they raise the bow to their face too.
think of an archer drawing back an arrow as a 'DRAMATIC POSE' get a feel for how 'ACTIONY ' it should look and feel and it'll help with the animating. The white swooshy stuff is great though. where the arrow actually is released looks great, it's mainly the person's pose that is killing this piece. =) if this was meant to be more of a playful cartoony kind of pose, kinda like someone not really aiming the arrow, this would actually be perfect. If you want me to nitpick, your bow is too small and should be longer/taller. but for this style it's not much of an issue i guess. Quick google search: 
(although those arrows would totally fall out of that quiver if it was like that. =P ) 
From what i saw at the olympics from the gold medallist who won archery, they drew the arrow's back part to their chin area and released from there. this made them have a scar from where the bow's string would rest for each time they drew the arrow. 
I think it doesn't reeally matter if you have this detail in your archer, as long as the bow is raised right and the string is drawn to the right distance with the hand at the right place you may end up with a 'relaxed ' archer pose (like the pose in the very first picture). which is passable and can look cooler than the correct archer pose sometimes. |
Posted By: slym
Date Posted: 26 November 2011 at 3:06pm
Is this better?
Partack: Thank you so much for that critique! I do think that saying the style in a way forces the bow to be small would be me being lazy :P I definitely used the crap out of those references! Next thing to do is to make that bow bigger! |
Posted By: slym
Date Posted: 26 November 2011 at 4:20pm
Another edit:
Ahhh! I didn't notice my post before this one. sorry :/ edit again: 
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Posted By: Partack
Date Posted: 26 November 2011 at 5:40pm
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Looking much better. very good job.
remember to be careful of the angle in which the arrow is released, it's straight if they point it straight and ..vertical.. er.. yeah / that way if they point the bow that way. can't wait to see the final product, the pose looks tonns better. |
Posted By: slym
Date Posted: 26 November 2011 at 6:28pm
New update!
Fixed back arching shenanigans. I can't tell if there is anything more to fix. |
Posted By: Hapiel
Date Posted: 26 November 2011 at 6:31pm
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Hii Slym I made you 2 edits, have a look at 'm! I dunno which I like better, but you are free to steal all of my ideas. I added a frame where he goes back to idle position, and I modified the starting position on both versions..   your old one: ------------- |
Posted By: Partack
Date Posted: 26 November 2011 at 6:32pm
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Looks good to me.
make sure you shoot that arrow straight when it releases though. just saying this because your previous version had the arrow move in an arc . Edit: hapiel's edit #2 looks the best to me. I vote for that one. |
Posted By: Hapiel
Date Posted: 26 November 2011 at 6:36pm
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Please note, in your newest version there are some random pixels jumping in his crotch. Or are they intended?
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Posted By: slym
Date Posted: 26 November 2011 at 6:46pm
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Haha I didn't notice random pixels moving around in his crotch. Looking at it now, I think it is because in the regular stance, he has no crotch :P
I love the change you made to the original pose. You cleaned it up a ton, and it definitely is closer in appearance (not shape) to the crouch/lunge during the animation. I'll try to fix the crotch and the original pose now! |
Posted By: Hapiel
Date Posted: 26 November 2011 at 6:48pm
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I didn't change much pose, I mostly altered timing! Watch that carefully, the moment where he goes down is very important. I played with it some more, tried face movement (it shouldn't move for targeting but it looked fun), added a frame to the arrow twirling (white starts one frame earlier) and I added my favorite cartoon character into the mix. See if there is something you like ;)  ------------- |
Posted By: slym
Date Posted: 26 November 2011 at 7:09pm
Thanks Hapiel! I tried to fix the timing of the crouch. Just realized that I forgot to fix his crotch. Hopefully this is an improvement.
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Posted By: Christoballs
Date Posted: 26 November 2011 at 7:12pm
| It lacks a frame for the string to straighten once released. Maybe a bit of subpixeling could suggest recoil and/or vibration too. |
Posted By: Hapiel
Date Posted: 26 November 2011 at 7:19pm
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Yeah, Chris is right, perhaps the white arrow should be on a frame where the bow is already relaxed/vibrating/released
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Posted By: slym
Date Posted: 26 November 2011 at 7:22pm
Haha it's cool to see you on both forums Cristoballs! I added the sub frame:
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Posted By: Christoballs
Date Posted: 26 November 2011 at 7:46pm
| The bow should bend back just after the arrow is shot, before the archer lowers it. |
Posted By: Partack
Date Posted: 26 November 2011 at 7:57pm
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it's getting there, eh?
you're really refining this animation. good job =) |
Posted By: slym
Date Posted: 26 November 2011 at 8:12pm
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Here comes version 16 :P
http://i1235.photobucket.com/albums/ff440/t_redmer/animation_fire16.gif ... and 17: 
Added a couple more frames to it. |
Posted By: ellie-is
Date Posted: 26 November 2011 at 8:24pm
Just a rough doodle. I think your character needs a little bit more exaggeration. Make him move some more, give it some energy! That's what makes animation stand out. My doodle has only keyframes, no inbetweens. But the inbetweens are merely the frames that smoothen out the sequence from one inbetween to the other. Keyframes being the important frames where things are happening. It really helps me to make them before anything else instead of doing all the frames one by one. If you know where you're going, it's easier to get there. |
Posted By: mdog95
Date Posted: 26 November 2011 at 8:40pm
| And maybe make him do a long, dramatic arc with his right arm and have him hold an aiming pose for a few frames, like he's going for the dramatic long-distance kill shot. |
Posted By: Partack
Date Posted: 26 November 2011 at 8:44pm
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I think he's onto something. notice the last keyframe where the bow is recoiled and the arrow gives off a kind of 'toingg!!' as it is released
that's a pretty interesting concept which would make this animation stand out. You've got the basic (yet very clean) 'thwip!' animation going for a controlled accurate shot and that's very passable for an animation already. it's very convincing and handsome, but there's no character to it. Well, actually, i lie. the character of what you have now is 'a skilled, professional and controlled archer/assassin' but I kinda like the idea of the character having a little bit of 'edgyness ' or 'relaxed/rebellious/not caring' attitude about them. With a little bit extra work you could give the ol' spit and polish to this animation, I think. I tell you what, what is this animation goign to be used for? is it a sprite for a game? or just for fun? if just for fun you should definitely make him do other stuff as suggested in the previous post. Oh, and revision #17 is wonderful, I love the new pause you have as the string recoils. |
Posted By: slym
Date Posted: 26 November 2011 at 8:56pm
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Well it is just for fun. But I may end up using all of the graphics in the "fall mockup" for a game. I'm trying to keep him looking as highly skilled that I can, so I am afraid that by adding character he would start looking less deft. I guess I could try making his lunge to the right leg a bit more extreme. btw, I haven't mentioned this because I've been so focussed on this animation, but I can't express how grateful I am for such great critique! I would never have made it this far without it.
anyway, I cleaned everything up and here is him on the background. I also fixed his exposed armpits. I realized how awkward that was just a few minutes ago! Yay for short sleeved shirts! 
(hehe version 18... he's now of legal age to enlist in the military!) and here's version can-legally-drink-alcohol-in-the-US version: 
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Posted By: Christoballs
Date Posted: 26 November 2011 at 9:15pm
| Looks awesome! You could add mannerisms, like spinning the arrow before drawing the bow, rolling his fingers, cocking his head whilst aiming... it can be quite subtle but simple. |
Posted By: Partack
Date Posted: 26 November 2011 at 9:17pm
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Looking good!
the armpit thing i didn't really notice 'till you mentioned it and now it looks great. I can't offer you any more critiques I'm afraid. Unless anyone else has anything to offer I'd say you were done =) Conglaturation! |
Posted By: Geoglatico
Date Posted: 26 November 2011 at 9:24pm
| I am enjoying your process, but I think the leg is disproportionate to the body, try to improve it! |
Posted By: slym
Date Posted: 26 November 2011 at 9:27pm
There we go. If this was a game, then you would hold shift to load and arrow onto the bow. While holding shift if the player presses the up arrow, then the bow would be at a higher angle, or the down arrow for vise versa. The arrow will lock onto a target if the player waits for the head to move forward (cocking, thanks cristoballs for that :D). It would be pretty cool to make this into a game. I took off the weird spark things that you see in the animation with the background, and added cocking of course. I also cleaned ever pixel I could :D So here's #22!
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Posted By: Christoballs
Date Posted: 26 November 2011 at 9:28pm
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It looks like the bow got shorter, if you see what I mean. Not like it recovered from a dilatation. |
Posted By: slym
Date Posted: 26 November 2011 at 9:34pm
better? |
Posted By: Partack
Date Posted: 26 November 2011 at 9:42pm
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to be honest i enjoyed the version where the head didn't tilt forward as they aimed.. to me that's kinda awkward because the string is already against their chin and leaning into it just seems a little unnatural.. if i was aiming a bow or a rifle, i'd keep my head and neck still because i was concentrating on what i was aiming at and wouldn't want to move my view.
perhaps if you like where the head is when it tilts forward, it should lean in a few frames sooner than it does. |
Posted By: slym
Date Posted: 26 November 2011 at 9:46pm
Well, I just realized that the head moves back to the normal position as he shoots the arrow. So it does look sloppy. Here's an edit where it makes more sense to me at least.
I do agree that the head cocking doesn't make sense, but I do feel like it gives the impression that he is more intensely aimed on the target. It's hard to pick between having it move or not. |
Posted By: Christoballs
Date Posted: 26 November 2011 at 9:50pm
| The head's movement is unnatural, because it goes forward one pixel and you've changed little to none of the details during that movement. |
Posted By: slym
Date Posted: 26 November 2011 at 9:53pm
| What would I be able to move other than the head? |
Posted By: mdog95
Date Posted: 26 November 2011 at 9:55pm
| In the frame after the shot, draw the arrow about mid way between the character and the edge of the canvas with some speed lines behind it. Right now, the arrow just disappears. |
Posted By: Partack
Date Posted: 26 November 2011 at 10:05pm
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Originally posted by mdog95 I disagree. I think the arrow 'disappearing' is fine the way it is, it gives it a sense of a 'thwip' motion which basically means it's fast and accurate.
In the frame after the shot, draw the arrow about mid way between the character and the edge of the canvas with some speed lines behind it. Right now, the arrow just disappears. as for the head moving forward, I thought that's why you added it but I still don't like it. 's your anim though. if you like it then go with it. |
Posted By: slym
Date Posted: 26 November 2011 at 10:05pm
@mdog95 haha might as well. Thanks :P
I made a happy medium with the head cocking. Instead of it just happening, the head eventually ends up in that position. But it's much smoother and it definitely looks like the archer is more focussed. [edit] about the arrow, now that I'm watching the animation, the arrow makes sense, but the width of the canvas isn't long enough. If the arrow was midway at 1 frame at 60 frames per second, then the arrow wouldn't be traveling nearly as fast as it appears with the sub-pixeled frame before it. |
Posted By: Partack
Date Posted: 26 November 2011 at 10:11pm
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the head cocking is a lot smoother now, yes. but he's slouching now. it looks terribly uncomfortable.
look back at the first three pictures I posted and notice their backs and necks are straight. slouching is actually a common folly of inexperienced archers and riflemen. It's bad posture, bad for your back and it messes your aim up. well then again the asian guy does slouch but he's on horse back. Regardless, I know that in archery you must keep a straight back and neck. I'll go look for some sources to cite. Edit: Originally posted by http://www.squidoo.com/archerytips
Posture & Holding A few pointers regarding posture throughout the whole process: Keep back straight and upright Keep head upright and turned towards the target Keep shoulders low Bow arm, draw hand, and draw arm elbow should form a straight line. |
Posted By: slym
Date Posted: 26 November 2011 at 10:19pm
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Dang you know your archery well! Here's an update. You were definitely right it looks much better without the head moving that far forward.
http://i1235.photobucket.com/albums/ff440/t_redmer/animation_fire26.gif edit: 
I noticed that the right arm's gauntlet/glove was awkwardly raised a pixel higher than it should be in a couple frames. Hopefully that arm looks straighter now. |
Posted By: Partack
Date Posted: 26 November 2011 at 10:28pm
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You'd never guess but I've never actually done archery before.
It just seems that these things would be the way it is.. For instance in any exercise you must keep your back straight or else you could slip a disc. And when shooting an arrow, you need to aim it, so it's only natural that you would raise it to your face.. as for the neck slouching, I've played with a crappy air rifle and I know that leaning into the scope messes your aim up a lot because it changes the depth and angle of stuff. (also it's terribly uncomfortable after a short while~) *Shruggs* (no i don't shoot at animals, don't worry.) it's common sense really.. As for the new anim, looks much better. you were absolutely right about the arrow being too fast to fit the current frame size. the head looks like it slouches still by a pixel but it's not noticeable and quite fluid. anything else that needs messing with? |
Posted By: slym
Date Posted: 26 November 2011 at 10:35pm
Then I am very lucky that you stumbled upon this thread! And there is at least one more thing to fix. On frame 5 there was 1 pixel missing on the head. (I wonder if anyone can find it :P)
Unless anyone else finds any other issues, I'm calling this finished. (on version #28) edit: Phlakes over at Pixelation brought up the idea of adding an extra frame where the string goes past the normal resting place to help give the sling itself more power: 
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Posted By: Partack
Date Posted: 26 November 2011 at 10:52pm
Beautiful. yes. that's the touch it needed for the recoil. *Applauds*
Good job sir/ma'am. You've done really well on this animation. It's certainly a flawless piece of artistry. I commend you. |
Posted By: slym
Date Posted: 26 November 2011 at 10:59pm
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edit: nvm. it's too sloppy.
Finally done! Sticking with version 29. Thanks so much to the community for helping out so much with this animation. In one day I was able to go from from a wimpy toy bow to a real one. Thanks guys :D
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Posted By: ErekT
Date Posted: 27 November 2011 at 6:10am
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The character's animation is getting to look very good. It still feels a little weak tho. Two things I notice:
There's no transition frame for the body as he moves back to take aim. This is easily fixed. There's no real follow through animation after the arrow has been fired. Think about it. He'll put considerable force into pulling that arrow back with his right arm and into keeping the bow steady with his left. It's a strained position and when he lets the arrow fly, the body should reflect that sudden release of energy somehow. I tried a little edit to illustrate: 
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Posted By: ellie-is
Date Posted: 27 November 2011 at 6:33am
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ErekT's edit is great. The recoil from shooting the arrow is perfect in there.
Also, you really should add an animation for the time where the string is pulled at it's farthest. If the player can hold it for as long as he wants, then it would make sense for the arm to move slightly, because pulling a bow string requires A LOT of strenght. Even if you're a pro. |
Posted By: Hapiel
Date Posted: 27 November 2011 at 7:40am
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You came a long way in one day!
I agree with Erek that there could be pose transition animation if you want, but in his version the body movement at the release moment is perhaps a bit exaggerated. You decide what you like best, your current final version is fine too! ------------- |
Posted By: slym
Date Posted: 27 November 2011 at 8:24am
Is this better? I added the recoil, pulled the bow farther and made him strain a bit, and added an inbetween frame with the legs. |
Posted By: Alex Pang
Date Posted: 27 November 2011 at 8:37am
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Much better!
Maybe add more movement on the legs! |
Posted By: ErekT
Date Posted: 27 November 2011 at 8:45am
| Looks great :) The shivering hand/string is also a nice touch, but maybe a bit too exaggerated? Like he's really straining to keep his aim there. It's tough to make movements subtle with a sprite this size tho. Maybe you could try some sub-pixel anim for it? |
Posted By: Hapiel
Date Posted: 27 November 2011 at 8:52am
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I dislike the hand movement and the movement when he shoots. The going down is better though..
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Posted By: slym
Date Posted: 27 November 2011 at 8:56am
Hopefully this one is better. Attempted to sub-pixel a 9x4 pixel hand xD
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Posted By: ErekT
Date Posted: 27 November 2011 at 9:04am
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Yes! I like the movement you added to the bow too. If you want to go all out you could add a bounce to the wood just after the arrow is released. But then again, it could end up looking too cartoony that way :P
Anyway, I think it's looking excellent as-is :) |
Posted By: slym
Date Posted: 27 November 2011 at 9:08am
I added a slight bounce to the wood, fixed weird dark spots that appear under his arms, and cleaned a bit more. (noticed 2 stray pixels in the first two frames).
tried to add a bit more movement: 
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Posted By: Partack
Date Posted: 27 November 2011 at 10:07am
| Subtle but effective. i prefer this version. it's tons better! i'll need to remember about the subtle changes. they do make a difference, don't they! ^^ |
Posted By: slym
Date Posted: 27 November 2011 at 10:12am
Haha they definitely do! Cristoballs pointed out (on pixelation) that the left arm is shorter than the right one. So I extended it. Definitely helped the posture I think.
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Posted By: ellie-is
Date Posted: 27 November 2011 at 10:27am
| Perfect! |
Posted By: Partack
Date Posted: 27 November 2011 at 10:41am
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Originally posted by lucas_irineu Agreed.
Perfect! What revision # are you on now? |
Posted By: slym
Date Posted: 27 November 2011 at 10:58am
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This one is #47
next up is the idle animation: 
It's just as bad as the first arrow animation xD |
Posted By: Partack
Date Posted: 27 November 2011 at 12:58pm
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i think i liked the bow's stretching/bouncyness from the one before #47. it seems firmer, tighter and more controlled.
the bouncy one dips into the pool of 'cartoony' for me. not 'professional archer' as for the idle pose.. i don't think he should move as much I know you're going for the fighting , dancy, breathy idle sorta thing.. but i don't think it's working.. try making him stiller/not moving so much.. this could go either way at this point because idle stances are all about who the character is. tell us a little about the character. who is he, what is he like? is he impatient? is he edgy/watchful? is he calm and collected? is he sneaky and ninjalike? is he careless/suave/cool/lets his guard down to flick his beautiful golden hair ? |
Posted By: slym
Date Posted: 27 November 2011 at 1:45pm
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Well since he lives in the mountains it would probably be windy. He is just a stereotypical archer. Assassin like qualities, very stealthy. Not sinister though.
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Posted By: Hapiel
Date Posted: 27 November 2011 at 1:49pm
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The trick is to have him do something. Looking around, playing with his hands, but just breathing and the wind doesn't do it. Also, his breath is like hyperhyper speed! If you don't want him to do something, let him do nothing. There is nothing wrong with nothing, he is IDLE!!! But anyway, here is a little wind animation.  ------------- |
Posted By: Partack
Date Posted: 27 November 2011 at 1:58pm
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Mkay. firstly, why do his legs go up and down?
air (As you know) enters the chest, the chest expands and so the shoulders go back. then the release, same thing but reverse. don't be afraid of having your character stand still. like you said, wind can be a factor so maybe his ... mask thingy.. can wave a little? *Shruggs* no need to exaggerate it though, your character kinda looks like he's laughing.. you could have the character do a few normal small breaths, then look around or something and then let out a big sigh of boredom or something. you shouldn't be focusing on the small breathing, you should focus on what the character will do in their idle time. Something significant such as tapping their foot impatiently (Sonic), fixing their hat (Mario), rubbing their fists and maybe doing some sorta 'keep me psyched' kinda maneuver (Random fighter characters), brush the soil off the base of their boot (forgot where i saw this one), etc. What significant thing do you want your character to do in their idle time? if at all? standing still is okay too but these significant actions define your characters ... well... character. lol. Make a small list for what you think an archer in the mountains would do when they've got a moment to spare. I'll start you off, # check their equipment works # strum their bow's string to make sure it is taught. # scratch their arm (archers get bruises from the string recoiling on them and eventually develop a .. callus type thing or get used to it.) # readjust their glove or armour/arm assist # put their hand above their eyebrows as if they're trying to see something far away |