Why didn't you submit this?
Printed From: Pixel Joint
Category: The Lounge
Forum Name: Resources and Support
Forum Discription: Help your fellow pixel artists out with links to good tutorials, other forums, software, fonts, etc. Bugs and support issues should go here as well.
URL: https://pixeljoint.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=16232
Printed Date: 11 October 2022 at 3:04pm
Topic: Why didn't you submit this?
Posted By: Marina
Subject: Why didn't you submit this?
Date Posted: 28 April 2013 at 2:28am
Why this piece http://www.pixeljoint.com/pixelart/77642.htm (between others) is not accepted? I saw the wip if this one because the one who did it is learning pixel art, and she sent me the progress. Sad that i lost some pictures of the progress because i save it with the same name.  She took 3 days to finish it for the weekly challenge, so, today is the last day and i want to know why is not accepted. If the excuse is that using a tool to make a pattern is not pixel art, i can say that most of pixel artist use lot of tools that make you work faster than placing pixel by pixel even if there are a zone that is all the same color. Also in hall of fame (example http://www.pixeljoint.com/pixelart/9461.htm and there are lot more) there are lot of things that use tools like that (such like patterns and textures that is not handmade). Even in new pixel art that is upload recently have used this kind of things. I used that tools as well sometimes and you accepted my pixel pieces who apply that things. Everywhere. So, i want to know why people dont apply the same rules to the others? I think that's pixel art too. People who used this tools are still creating pixel art. Although some of you say is not, you can't prove that they did the texture using a tool, because it can be handmade as well. Even though if is not handmade, is just a pixel art tool to go faster and most of you guys use that kind of tools, also this one  <-- because this is not a tool to place pixel by pixel, my friends. Same with big brushes. |
Replies:
Posted By: AtskaHeart
Date Posted: 28 April 2013 at 5:09am
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Understanding the concept of Pixel Art purism is important to know why some tools make your work NPA. Purism isn't an old concept, but a relatively new one, and it's primary advantage is forcing new pixel artist to stick to the most basic tools of pixel art in order to avoid pieces that have nearly no pixel-wise work.
There is absolutely no point in considering the floodfill algorithm NPA. And indeed, there are well-known pieces (some of them in the Hall of Fame) that have clear NPA characteristics, however, its authors are well aware of the tools they have used and have demonstrated an incredible pixel control work (eg. color reduction in http://www.pixeljoint.com/pixelart/75504.htm ). The pieces you show have nearly no pixel work, the only pixel work I can be aware of is the one that can be seen in the patterns. So I wouldn't say that the pattern itself is NPA, but the whole piece doesn't show real pixel work (except for the shapes, which look good to me) to be added to a Pixel Art Gallery. |
Posted By: jalonso
Date Posted: 28 April 2013 at 5:35am
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All pixels are reviewed on their own merit and we compare no art to any other. We don't reject certain tools if that tool only makes a process quicker but is easily made by hand. The bucket, for example. Dithering gradients in many pieces in the gallery are made by hand. Some use, gradient textures they create and reuse all the time. The Moonsoon piece you show is made with a handmade brush, fyi. I did not sent this back but probably would have for nothing brought up. I would have this sent for revision because it fails to meet the 'control on the pixel level' which is the primary reviewing/judging criteria. ------------- |
Posted By: Marina
Date Posted: 28 April 2013 at 5:48am
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A lot of people start their pixel works like the WIP I show. Even myself. No one never told me nowdays that I am wrong about how i do my pixel art works. If you say that you dont see a pixel work on this piece, then you're also saying that you dont see pixel work in my stuff. Because I do most of my pixel pictures/sprites the same way as her. And i will not accept that argument because you're not applying it to everybody. I see most of the steps she did, and i tried to give her some tips to fix it as much as possible. I can garantee that she applied pixel art. But she need to improve, and i think that veterans should help new people. No need to be that arrogant. Unluckily I lost most of the process that she sent me, but she did a pixel art. She need to learn, she did improve already in this month, but this doesn't mean that using a tool or another, beeing new or veteran, doesn't make the difference. She is new, but i am trying to do some activities with her to learn new things of pixel art. She also do things by her own. That's the way she will familiarize about the basic rules of pure pixel art. But i insist, the things that can be done with some tools, also can be handmade. If new pixel artist that are still learning, cant upload their works in this website just because they doesn't know how to use some tools, or they don't do exelent works, I would have an idea about this: discriminate new pixel artists. They also have right to recieve critics to fix their works, and this won't be possible if no one upload their works. |
Posted By: jalonso
Date Posted: 28 April 2013 at 6:08am
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I am rather surprised with your view on this matter. I happen to think that you are a top-notch pixelartist and probably the only girl pixel pusher that truly kicks ass! I would say most work this way. Blocking areas and planning a piece is very common. The following steps is what makes any pixel complete and controlled. It is my assumption that voting and another Mod failed to see this being made on this piece. I know I don't. Perhaps your friend is simply being too ambitious at this stage in his/her development? Again, I did not send this back and replied only because its YOU asking. ------------- |
Posted By: Marina
Date Posted: 28 April 2013 at 6:28am
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I did not see your reply before, jalonso. Maybe it can be shocking what i am saying, but i am really convinced that i am not wrong. This case that i show is not the first, neither the last. There are more cases, new people who try to do pixel art, but they don't know how to do it correctly. And they won't if no one see what they're doing. when i was new in this site, I remember i did a painting that i thought was pixel art (obviously, it was not in that case, just in that case), and no one explained me carefully why that picture was a oekaki ( i didn't get it at that time). Somebody open a survey about if should oekaki be allowed on the site. I didn't even know that there was a argument about it on the forum till one guy send me the link. This did not help me at all at that time, so i work for my own, and i also got my jobs as a pixel artist. There was (and still are) few issues about my pixel stuff, and thanks to some people who critic me and make me see my errors, I improved a lot. I still need to improve. I am doing this just because, even if she want to ignore about all this, I don't, because I am a witness of her progress and i work the same way in few of my pixel pieces. PD= Excuse me everybody if i edit my post quite much. Is because my english is not good enough and i fix words constantly |
Posted By: jalonso
Date Posted: 28 April 2013 at 10:12am
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The WIP section is there for help and feedback and I find people do help. You do have to remember that PJers are artists not teachers so one has to help themselves more than depend on others. I now see that this was a haste thread on a piece that was never rejected or sent back at all. Its just in the public queue awaiting member votes which now seems to be high enough to add the piece. It has been added :/ ------------- |
Posted By: Marina
Date Posted: 28 April 2013 at 11:00am
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Sure, no one is a teacher here, but everyone feel good when somebody comment on our stuff. And if it helps, much better. Has been 2 days that the piece was there waiting, I open this because the piece was not in public queue anymore since this morning (spanish time). So i dont know how can be possible that suddenly people vote it. Anyway, i still think the same way. Thanks for your attention. |