A misplaced fear?
Printed From: Pixel Joint
Category: The Lounge
Forum Name: Diversions
Forum Discription: Get to know your fellow pixel freaks. Chat about anything to do with video games, comic books, anime, movies, television, books, music, sports or any other off topic bs you can think of.
URL: https://pixeljoint.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3187
Printed Date: 28 October 2025 at 6:43am
Topic: A misplaced fear?
Posted By: EyeCraft
Subject: A misplaced fear?
Date Posted: 13 October 2006 at 7:58am
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Could just be me...but I feel like I have returned to quite a more hostile forum than the one I left. It seems like the amount of n00b bashing, and general arguments on Pixel Joint has grown considerably, to the extent where it creates a foreboding overtone to the experience. Does anyone else feel the same? Why can't we all just get along?   |
Replies:
Posted By: Pixel_Outlaw
Date Posted: 13 October 2006 at 9:30am
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I think you are right. I'm often afraid to bring pals from other forums here because people expect top notch quality from beginners. ------------- http://www.shmup-dev.com/forum/"> 
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Posted By: jalonso
Date Posted: 13 October 2006 at 9:39am
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While its true that from time to time things flare up. I don't agree its too harsh around here. Its not top quality art that's expected, but top quality behavior and attitude. It is frustrating to offer comments that go ignored, and WIPs that are abandoned quickly. Among other things.
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Posted By: leel
Date Posted: 13 October 2006 at 9:56am
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i dont think so.. really.. it's only when things build up like flameruler - yah, we were mean, but I say she had it coming.
I agree with Jal though, it's not the art that we bitch about, but the behavior of the new person that comes in.
I always use Dra Chan as an example, when she'd just joined and posted a wip she got lots of crits, but instead of getting all offended she accepted them and now is a dear member of our community :)
As for me, I still consider myself to be a noob to pixel art, but I fit in just fine because 1. I can take a joke, 2. I know that whatever response to my pixels i get is meant to help, not make me feel bad about myself.
Yah, that's my 2 cents :)
I try to always be nice to new members, but if they're being brats, why should I bother giving respect when I'm not getting any in return? you know?
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Posted By: pixelblink
Date Posted: 13 October 2006 at 11:02am
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this forum is no different towards noobs than Pixelation. What matters it the maturity of the noob towards accpeting feedback and actually updating/editing their piece. Most noobs that come here post a piece for critique, receive some helpful ones, then do nothing or upload it to the main site without changing anything. A person is only going to survive here if they want to improve and try new things. Of course, there's a certain large number of people here that just want to chat in the OT thread and that's okay too. ------------- |
Posted By: Pixel_Outlaw
Date Posted: 13 October 2006 at 11:37am
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I just want to chat in the OT thread too and that's ok. I don't believe in art! ------------- http://www.shmup-dev.com/forum/">
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Posted By: Aleiav
Date Posted: 13 October 2006 at 12:04pm
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I don't think much quality is actually required from our n00bs. I think the most important from our n00bs, is that they are mature. I wouldn't regard senstitivity as maturity. People who don't know how to post their art without taking comments personally, only wanting people to say how good they are not not pointing out the mistakes they made, are immature about their own art. To join Pixeljoint, I think, you've got to want to take your art both seriously and not seriously at the same time. You want to take it seriously enough to want to improve, but not so serious that you get offended by people who mention that you've shaded something wrong. It's a good balance, I think. And it's a wise thing to have in any artistically driven forum. I think art breeds critique, and if you don't want critique, keep your art to yourself, you know? I recently tried to join another forum (*le gasp* a dolling forum actually, against my better instincts) and I tried to give critiques and people took them personally, they thought I was being pretensious and rude, etc. And I even softened them up compared with my critiques here. They flipped out, took it personally, got offended, made a new rule banning critique unless the person posting their art wanted it and in the end I ended up getting banned for speaking my mind and refusing to follow childish and stupid rules. I think those types of people, who can't handle what people might think about their art, who don't care enough about their art to improve... closed minded people when it comes to their art, those are the types of people that won't get good reviews here at PJ, but I don't think that's because of PJ members... it's because of common sense. I think we appreciate geniune honesty, an open mind, a willingness to learn, and a sense of humor. I don't think it's much to ask from someone who's mature. I'm glad to be at PJ, personally. I feel like I can express my thoughts without someone telling me to be nice and coddle everyone. I don't feel bossed about or babyed, and I enjoy that. I've learned a lot from being on here about being senstitive to stuff, and I think it's made me realize how much an obstacle being sensitive is. If you take everything personally and to the heart you waste so much emotion and time you don't really need to waste. So, do I think we're being hard on n00bs... nah. ------------- |
Posted By: Lawrence
Date Posted: 13 October 2006 at 12:20pm
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In my opinion, with regard to people like Flameruler, the fact that he's hard to work with doesn't mean he should be banned. Sure, he doesn't like hearing crits which sound... unfriendly, that's because he's someone who needs more help than usual to learn how to work with crits, and banning him doesn't help him, it just means we don't have to deal with him, and since I view this site as a place where people can learn, a banning like this is a kind of failure in that respect. When I went on his site I looked at the links section, and when I saw the lone banner of 'pixel joint' I felt a bit sad that he'd been kicked out of the site he clearly likes to be a part of just because he requires a bit more special attention. He did have outbursts of swearing recently, but here's the thing... he probably came to be like this because of previous situations comparable to this 'banning'. If any of you have read An Inspector Calls by J.B. Priestly you probably get what I mean when I mention this domino effect.
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Posted By: Souly
Date Posted: 13 October 2006 at 1:03pm
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I really hate giving people crits that go un heard. I mean, I may not give the largest paragraph of pefect critique since I myself still don't have lot of things down. But nothing pisses me off more then being brushed off like I don't know what I'm talking about at all. As if the person who is ASKING for the critique from the forum thinks they know everything there is to know. Why bother asking for crits if all your looking for is praise on your peice. I suggets you take things elswhere if you're not looking to learn. Because part of learning requires taking peoples comments into consideration and at the LEAST trying to do what others say should be done. ------------- 
I am the jesus of PJ. |
Posted By: leel
Date Posted: 13 October 2006 at 1:07pm
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yeah, i agree, banning flammy only means that we dont have to deal with her, but you have to see that we did try! many times, she kept getting mad but then coming back and we kept giving her chances, only with less and less patience each time, but I think that's understandable, it's not that we're evil jerks or something, I generally try to be as nice as i can to a newcomer, but when we're told that our reply posts is 'sh*t' thats not worth reading, can you see why we'd refuse to put anymore effort into helping her?
I havent read the book you mentioned, I should look that up.
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Posted By: Blick
Date Posted: 13 October 2006 at 5:21pm
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I've always felt that this place has some sort of strange tone about it that almost feels like a naive feeling of being high and mighty. I'm not about to tell you guys how to run the place, I like this place enough to keep returning, right? But it's not necessarily the "strictness" on noobs we have that irks me here, it's actually a really lenient place, it's actually the face people think this place is strict is what irks me. And the fact there's so many misguided arguments on trivial or obvious things. Many people seem to feel they're experienced enough to tell a color reduction or piece with use of "dirty" tools from a pure pixelart piece and then take it upon themselves to call the artist out on it. Problem is, many miss the most obvious index painted pieces, probably because most here haven't seen real index painting and had the word to identify it and put two and two together, and then go raving about how great said piece is but moan about something like a single background cloud being a CG color reduction in a mockup. Lately all I seem to read from people "defending" Pixeljoint (please don't take this post as an attack, it's just an observation of how I feel about this place which is something that has yet to be and probably can't be changed) is "at least we're not DA." I wish this place could bring itself up to a higher goal. It's no secret, DA blows. How about you guys strive for something other than "Hey, at least we aren't dead last." ------------- http://punaji.com/"> 
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Posted By: Aleiav
Date Posted: 13 October 2006 at 5:43pm
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I think it's okay to call out an artist if you think there might be an issue of color reduction. There's no need to take it personally, I don't think. If you're wrong. Nothing wrong in being wrong, I don't think.
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Posted By: EyeCraft
Date Posted: 13 October 2006 at 7:57pm
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I agree that mature behaviour is certainly a merit to be expected. In everyone. I don't mean to attack people, but some of the defenses put forward are a little ego-centric. Just this idea that "I'm experienced and everyone should listen to me and if they don't then its really annoying" notion, that seems to me to be a little immature. If they don't listen then they don't listen, calm yourself, is my opinion. Then again, I haven't been directly involved in any of these situations. But why is there this hierachy structure? People sitting at the top casting down their opinions, and people at the bottom getting attacked quite alot. And yes their behaviour is immature, but does immature behaviour have to be met with immature behaviour? Maybe it's through hazy memory, but I always regarded this forum, and Pixelation for that matter to have a flat structure, not a hierachy. Everyone is equal. If one person doesn't listen to the other, its not some defiance against the hierachy, if you get what I mean. Blah, anyway, kind of ranting. That's just my thoughts on things...even though I've pretty much only been here for 2 days or whatever. Oh and I definately agree that we should have a better goal than "being better than dA". Something to aspire to, not retreat from. |
Posted By: Saboteur
Date Posted: 14 October 2006 at 12:12am
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I can say with all honesty that I've become more of an ass to new-types, lately. A lot of it depends strongly on how I'm feelin' on a particular day, but a lot of it is just me thinkin' I'm better than them, I suppose.
I've always been right on the ass of anything that seemed like a thefting of something from somewhere, and I know that's gotten me into some tightness before, buuut I don't really think I'm wrong to do so. A lot of THAT is this stupid self-glorifying "Look at me, I stop crime!" sort of idea. Unfortunately, it seems, I am, in fact human. An' I fall into the category Blick was talking about, that being those who feel experienced enough to call out photoreductions and the like. Sorry for that, man, I'll try restrain myself, in the future.
One aspect of Pixeljoint that seems to be growing (perhaps I just ignored it before) is the absolute law of pixel art. E'erything must be placed pixel by pixel, or the creator shall be shot. Anything non-pixel art gets pounced upon, unless otherwise labelled and in the forums.
I'm also afraid of some of the current moderation staff. Now, don't shoot me, it's just I'm not positive some things were totally fair, specifically Inkspot's banning from the website's IRC (and eventually the website, or did he just leave?). From what I understand, he had a disagreement with a few people on staff not really related to pixel art, and he eventually got overpowered, banned, and mocked in quite a rude manner, if you ask me.
So yeah, I feel like Pixeljoint has some unresolved issues, hence the tension.
Of course, you can't exactly say it's new. I mean, we've had drama before, with Truth and So-Lou and a few other players. Iunno what's changed, really, but I feel the difference.
Absence of sedge, much? WHERE BE OUR LEADER? ------------- "I was minding my own business and walking across a pebbled path, and a Duck started giving me the business." |
Posted By: EyeCraft
Date Posted: 14 October 2006 at 2:44am
| Wait, what happened to So-Lou?? |
Posted By: Blueberry_pie
Date Posted: 14 October 2006 at 3:07am
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I believe a couple of disagreements with last year's Pixelween got So-Lou banned... not sure though.
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Posted By: leel
Date Posted: 14 October 2006 at 3:27am
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I dont think people really get THAT offended if their c/c isnt taken, I havent seen anyone here who believes their opinion is law. What they (and I say they because I dont actually give that much c/c) get offended by is when they're totally ignored. I know from my own wip threads, that i was never able to follow EVERY single suggestion that was thrown on me, but as long as I worked on i and showed some kind of improvement I was encouraged to do more. And besides, as ego-centric as this sounds, when a complete newbie comes (someone who just found mspaint for the first time yesterday) there are some things we say right away that we're positive will improve it, like - use a lightsource instead of pillowshading, or try to aa this or that, and things like that.. it's not really opinions that we'll attack others for not agrees with, just the basic principles of pixel art.
at least, thats the way i look at it. I could be wrong :P
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Posted By: Feron
Date Posted: 14 October 2006 at 3:51am
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Originally posted by EyeCraft
Wait, what happened to So-Lou?? Ask pixelblink. ------------- hmmmm. |
Posted By: Larwick
Date Posted: 14 October 2006 at 11:44am
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Lately i've been trying to enforce less negativity wherever i can - as i have also felt this happening. It's just a phase... hopefully. -------------  http://larw-ck.deviantart.com">
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Posted By: pixelblink
Date Posted: 15 October 2006 at 3:41pm
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EyeCraft: it all started with http://www.pixeljoint.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=153&KW=&PID=12330#12330 - this thread Everyone: I think this is the best thread ever! For many months now I've seen some overreactions from so many people. Hell, I've been there myself. We all need to pull back a bit and consider people's feelings sometimes. That's not to say we shouldn't hold back our critiques and judgements on the art itself but we should definitely hold back our private opinions about a persons own character/personality and faults of the like. I think if anyone finds themselves being a bit rash and harshly judging another member, they should take some time away from the site and return when all the drama in their head has left. We are better than dA when it comes to a functional site with members who actually give a sh*t about the art they submit but what we lack more than dA is the community pride. We are here to support each other's art and find friendship in one another. I would gladly go for beers* with anyone of you and shoot the sh*t about pixels and such. I've seen PJ grow from almost the very start to what it is today and I gotta say I'm pretty proud of being a part of this community and I'd like to think that it doesn't stop there. We all have so much potential to help this community and site grow by helping the next wave of new members. Yes, I said "new members" instead of "noobs." That word should be outlawed on this site IMO. Let's work together as comrades to build a better tomorrow and not as competitors to win the race so to speak. *offer only valid to those of legal drinking age ------------- |
Posted By: Larwick
Date Posted: 15 October 2006 at 4:02pm
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Originally posted by pixelblink
*offer only valid to those of legal drinking age Goddammit.
 And wow, it's So-lou's birthday today. ------------- http://larw-ck.deviantart.com">
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Posted By: Pixel_Outlaw
Date Posted: 15 October 2006 at 5:32pm
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I vote we all get plastic giggle hammers to hit each other with. I get to go first!
I would post a list but we wouldn't want to hurt feelings.... ------------- http://www.shmup-dev.com/forum/">
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Posted By: Blick
Date Posted: 15 October 2006 at 7:54pm
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I let my first strike of frustration out on PO. This would've been a lengthy meaningful post in response to a few in the replies here, but I don't want to type that much. And I'm a little drunk. ------------- http://punaji.com/">
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Posted By: Saboteur
Date Posted: 15 October 2006 at 8:23pm
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"That word should be outlawed on this site IMO."
Then I suggest we change the title of the thread "N00bs, this is what happens when you steal pixels."
And "Noobs, read this before posting."
------------- "I was minding my own business and walking across a pebbled path, and a Duck started giving me the business." |
Posted By: Pixel_Outlaw
Date Posted: 15 October 2006 at 8:37pm
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Originally posted by Blick
I let my first strike of frustration out on PO. This would've been a lengthy meaningful post in response to a few in the replies here, but I don't want to type that much. And I'm a little drunk. I thought I was liked here......  ------------- http://www.shmup-dev.com/forum/">
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Posted By: jalonso
Date Posted: 15 October 2006 at 9:23pm
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I always use 'n00b' in a loving way. I too use my first strike on P_O the n00b  ------------- |
Posted By: Aleiav
Date Posted: 15 October 2006 at 10:24pm
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I don't think that because you're giving opinions or suggestions that you're necessarily better or have more skills than who you're giving your opinion too. I think anyone and everyone can have opinions on what they see and feel looks odd or off. I don't think it's necessarily a one person over the other instruction but more of a pallate of critiques. You take this and that critique and you look at them all and think about what you want to change and what you think you should change, etc. Ultimately, it's the artist's decision. sure, maybe we could lighten up if we feel we're being too serious. But I definately want to avoid taking things personally. :P edit: also. I think n00b is an alright word. We're all n00bs in the beginning. ------------- |
Posted By: Pixel_Outlaw
Date Posted: 16 October 2006 at 6:48am
Ok but I get the first strike as preveously stated. Yeah I shall fill mine with sleeping pouders.  ------------- http://www.shmup-dev.com/forum/">
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Posted By: EyeCraft
Date Posted: 16 October 2006 at 8:26am
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Wow So-Lou really spit chips, unfortunate she had to fall-out over something so pointless. But I suppose it was a culmination, not an isolated event, right? Yeah its her birthday, saw it on myspace... Originally posted by pixelblink EyeCraft: it all started with forum_posts.asp?TID=153&KW=&PID=12330#12330 - this thread Everyone: I think this is the best thread ever! For many months now I've seen some overreactions from so many people. Hell, I've been there myself. We all need to pull back a bit and consider people's feelings sometimes. That's not to say we shouldn't hold back our critiques and judgements on the art itself but we should definitely hold back our private opinions about a persons own character/personality and faults of the like. I think if anyone finds themselves being a bit rash and harshly judging another member, they should take some time away from the site and return when all the drama in their head has left. We are better than dA when it comes to a functional site with members who actually give a sh*t about the art they submit but what we lack more than dA is the community pride. We are here to support each other's art and find friendship in one another. I would gladly go for beers* with anyone of you and shoot the sh*t about pixels and such. I've seen PJ grow from almost the very start to what it is today and I gotta say I'm pretty proud of being a part of this community and I'd like to think that it doesn't stop there. We all have so much potential to help this community and site grow by helping the next wave of new members. Yes, I said "new members" instead of "noobs." That word should be outlawed on this site IMO. Let's work together as comrades to build a better tomorrow and not as competitors to win the race so to speak. *offer only valid to those of legal drinking age Ahh I agree so much!! Originally posted by Aleiav I don't think that because you're giving opinions or suggestions that you're necessarily better or have more skills than who you're giving your opinion too. I think anyone and everyone can have opinions on what they see and feel looks odd or off. I don't think it's necessarily a one person over the other instruction but more of a pallate of critiques. You take this and that critique and you look at them all and think about what you want to change and what you think you should change, etc. Ultimately, it's the artist's decision. sure, maybe we could lighten up if we feel we're being too serious. But I definately want to avoid taking things personally. :P edit: also. I think n00b is an alright word. We're all n00bs in the beginning. Indeed! Thats pretty much how I think of the critiquing process as well. "Palette of critiques," well said  .Hmm the word n00b...has always had slightly negative, patronising, contemptuous connotations to me. Perhaps the more loving "newbie" could be a viable substitution? Up to you |
Posted By: jalonso
Date Posted: 16 October 2006 at 8:45am
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Just like fraternities use "pleebe" to indicate a member that has to go through some hurdles. The usage of n00b in PJ I find is actually a tool of encouragement. With the more loving newbie attitude we would fall into the endless trap of advice/help/suggestion that go unappreciated. We offer help but we have no duty to do so. Its really frustrating to want to help out when we can and meet a brick wall. The more harsh n00b should be taken by the accused as a form of motivation to improve, learn and become an active member of the pixelart community. It also serves to divide those who can interact with others with humor, maturity and self-confidence. Once this hurdle is jumped the n00b title is gone. We use the term n00b on many established members too on accasion to imply some behavior rather than a technique. To me its a loving term ps: This thread is really great, I hope it continues with healthy disscusions and debates as it realtes to the interaction and communication of this forum. I find it very interesting that no n00b has jumped in to give their side of things. We are mostly preaching to the choir for now. ------------- |
Posted By: Saboteur
Date Posted: 16 October 2006 at 10:20pm
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Ooo, ooo, can we make this the "Mash out your frustrations" thread? I want it to be, I really, really do. It -could- get really effing ugly, but maybe not.
So I'll open up the floodgates. Anyone ever had a beef with me, and just let it gracefully slide? Tell me about it. I've been told I've come across egotistical before, but I've never noticed it. SO. Yell at me -IN PMS AND OR EMAIL- , I find it exciting.
Two things I wanna bring up that actually edge on hypocritical, from me. On a pixel art forum, is it right for there to be so many posts in an off-topic thread? I mean, sure, it's fun, but I feel like it's distracted from the actual purpose of the website, kinda. It's PIXELjoint, not LETSHAVETEAANDLAUGHSjoint.
The other one is teamspea... wait, IRC. I like it as a place to ask important pixel-art related questions to more experienced people, or get insta-C&C, but often it's a social gathering, WHICH actually, imo, establishes the "elite" of pixeljoint.
I mean, it's a group of people that know each other not just as artists, anymore, but as people. To see them (us, whatever) interact on the forums kinda gives a sense of exclusiveness to the community, and it doesn't help when people can be banned from it, thus kinda shunned from the "elite" community.
I'm probably being an ass to suggest it, but I truly think the increase of social interaction has been a detriment, not a benefit, to Pixeljoint.
Anybody agree?
------------- "I was minding my own business and walking across a pebbled path, and a Duck started giving me the business." |
Posted By: jalonso
Date Posted: 16 October 2006 at 10:43pm
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I do not agree with you and will explain. The OT like IRC can give that impression because not many members participate. Yes nonsense happens there, but much pixelart related topics are too. Other times it may involve programs not for pixelart related and we learn new things. As far as getting to know each other a little better, remember PJ is a community not an oracle. I find that when I comment on someone I know little about, I actually hold back and behave, as in irl, with much more courtesy. However, with those that I know a little better and have come to understand their personality, sense of humor and other idiocincracities. I can tell it like it is without fear of insulting or hurting a friend. We understand that harsh comments on the 'art' is never personal since the next second we'll be joking on the OT. We all go through dry spells and creative blocks. At these times just joking with each other feels good and helps us cope. Again, its a community. I have been racking my brain over a Pixelween idea for days and days. One of these "elite joking in-crowd" events that you claim to find unhelpful has given me an idea I would not have thought of otherwise (thx P_O). Sab/willow/greg you are very harsh and in fact at times snobbish. I never hold this against you, ever. You also often crack me up too. It all balances out. Matter of fact I always look forward to your c+c on my WIP threads. They are brutally harsh and almost always correct. I don't recall one of my WIPs that you have not contributed to with some significant way. E:typos ------------- |
Posted By: Equinoxx
Date Posted: 17 October 2006 at 2:01am
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jsut to show that not all is as it seems,
I felt really welcome and at home almost instantly when I joined up and posted.
Could've been due to the fact that I logged onto IRC as well and met them in real-time, talk to them etc.
And probably due to the fact that I'm not an ignorant basterd either. Do onto others as you have them do onto you or something like that.
I treated them with respect and got that back and visa versa ...
on the matter of Noobism, I guess someone considered me headn00b calling me n00b #1 ... I don't mind it'll change over time I'm sure *hint hint* ------------- http://www.pixeljoint.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3306 - Zombies  |
Posted By: Aleiav
Date Posted: 17 October 2006 at 9:57am
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Originally posted by EyeCraft Hmm the word n00b...has always had slightly negative, patronising, contemptuous connotations to me. Perhaps the more loving "newbie" could be a viable substitution? Up to you I dunno.. Anyone can take any word in a number of different ways. I personally say I'm a n00b if I feel like I don't know what I'm doing (I still feel I'm a n00b in pixel artz :P). Some people may take it wrong but.. people could also take "Pixel Joint" wrong too. Sab I think a HUGE part of PJ is the graphics and the pool does provide instant C+C. I like the communal feeling and the social part of PJ. :) I don't feel it overtakes the artistic point of the place at all. ------------- |
Posted By: Monkey 'o Doom
Date Posted: 17 October 2006 at 12:49pm
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I have been to forums where they have sharp distinctions between n00b, noob, and newbie, as 'immature new member', 'somewhat immature new member', and 'responsible new member', respectively. I think it's better to have one common term that can have its connotation defined by the context of its use, which is how it is now.
Also, the pool is a fun place, and often very offtopic, but if someone comes looking for constructive criticism or opinions on their pixel, it's almost always answered. Naturally, we can't talk about nothing but pixel art; though it is very interesting, it isn't enough to provide hours upon hours of unique conversation.
@Equinoxx- When you joined, I remember you making a very positive impression and being a respectable member. The problem we seem to have is not in noticing and including those who are exemplary in behavior, but in putting up with those who don't act as well. I agree that joining the IRC for a bit helps n00bs to be more accepted and to help them get a feel for the community, but once again, they would do best to give a good impression and act appropriately. ------------- http://pixelmonkey.ensellitis.com"> 
RPG is numberwang. |
Posted By: Feron
Date Posted: 17 October 2006 at 3:24pm
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We were all newbs - cos we didn't get banned.
people like jackal, tomster, flamerruler13 are n00bs. And n00b bashing is often neccesary. people who want to learn = good people who are dicks toward critique and just cause disruption = f**kers who need to be put in their place. ------------- hmmmm. |
Posted By: Larwick
Date Posted: 17 October 2006 at 3:33pm
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To be honest i think flameruler did improve somewhat, but then seemed to derail in the end for some reason. I wouldn't have been so harsh to him, but owel.
Jackal and tomster were just too young. ------------- http://larw-ck.deviantart.com">
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Posted By: Feron
Date Posted: 18 October 2006 at 4:42pm
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Originally posted by Larwick
Jackal and tomster were just too young. so young people can't have common sense, manners and respect for people? Age has nothing to do with it - they are just c**ts. ------------- hmmmm. |
Posted By: pixelblink
Date Posted: 18 October 2006 at 11:35pm
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Originally posted by Feron they are just c**ts. and it's things like that that make people wanna open threads like this. I know where you're coming from though, Feron, it's just that sometimes things like that don't need to be said outloud. We were all thinking it in some fashion or another. We can still live up to higher standards and give a gentlemanly kick in the ass out of here. ------------- |
Posted By: Feron
Date Posted: 19 October 2006 at 12:55am
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im just saying that some new guys come here to learn - which is cool, but others are just dicks.
And i am generally the guy that says what everyone is thinking. ------------- hmmmm. |
Posted By: leel
Date Posted: 19 October 2006 at 3:37am
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that's good shark, just don't let it come to the point where everyone is thinking "feron stfu"
And since you mentioned that people need to have manners and respect here, you don't wanna seem like a hypocrite and just bitch about everyone all the time. Keep a nice balance is all I'm saying. k?
<3
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Posted By: Saboteur
Date Posted: 21 October 2006 at 4:04pm
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Thankee Jal, I can see what you're saying. ------------- "I was minding my own business and walking across a pebbled path, and a Duck started giving me the business." |
Posted By: Blick
Date Posted: 21 October 2006 at 4:34pm
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And i am generally the guy that says what everyone is thinking. Next time you want to speak for me, don't. ------------- http://punaji.com/">
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Posted By: Brian the Great
Date Posted: 21 October 2006 at 4:39pm
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Originally posted by Feron There's a reason we keep it to thinking.And i am generally the guy that says what everyone is thinking. ------------- http://www.twoschizos.com"> 
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Posted By: Blick
Date Posted: 21 October 2006 at 5:07pm
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Especially since it's not what everyone is thinking. Not that I would know what we're all thinking. But I know you and myself don't have some mental bond, it's been proven beings I don't agree with everything you say. But the fact that I don't know what everyone else is thinking is the point. That's why I personally don't go "Man, that was one hell of douchebag" and look around at everyone else for some confirming words or looks to justify it with "You know you were thinking it too." ------------- http://punaji.com/">
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Posted By: Bisque
Date Posted: 23 October 2006 at 12:20am
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Well this is all a bit too much for me to read at 3am, so I appologize is I'm repeating things. This forum ..this site, is full of Egocentric Perfectionistic Arseholes. I think it just goes hand in hand with a community where person A in some way views themself to be better at something than person B. A lot of people fail to realize that talent and experience are often 2 completely different things. Just because you have been working with pixels for 5 years as opposed to the 5 months of someone else, does not mean you are more talented than them. You simply have more experience. When you post critiques with nothing more than 'hmm put more effort into it please. It needs more work', you are not helping. Such posts are in most cases quite useless. If you are not willing to put effort into explaining what needs work and how to fix it, then why is it that you expect that person to graciously accept your negative opinion, and magically fix the piece you're looking down upon? To me it all just says 'Go away..come back when you're better' I'll admit that there are some extremely RUDE and annoying n00bs out there that will never learn no matter what you tell them or try to help them with, but that's no reason to be raising your nose. In the end, if you have nothing truely helpful to say, then leave them be. They will either learn on their own, or they will go away and stop annoying you. It's as simple as that. ------------- Poor Alice is dead. They cut off her head. But we'll be okay, didn't need her either way. |
Posted By: Aleiav
Date Posted: 23 October 2006 at 10:35am
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I sincerely doubt that we discriminate against people who aren't the best pixel artists. Case in point? myself. I'm not the best all. In fact, I'm pretty sucktastic, but people still help me and aren't rude to me. I don't feel we're egocentric at all. I think people just don't know how to take crits without taking it personally. And if someone has a problem with how much is explained, they can always ask and usually people are more than happy to explain. It's not the easiest to critique. When someone hasn't worked hard on a piece and there's 10 different things wrong with it... it's hard to sit and write a book about what they should do and what they shouldn't do, so we tell them to work harder on it. Most mistakes are easy to identify once you get an artistic eye. And no matter how many crits we give, the best thing for people to do is practice. And I think it's better for people to hear that they need to spend more time on something than get NO response and keep attempting pixel masterpieces in 10 minutes. ------------- |
Posted By: Cryssy
Date Posted: 23 October 2006 at 10:54am
| I am always afraid of coming here because I am a sensitive soul and it really doesn't take much to make me cry *esspecially since I quit my prozac* and I am always afraid people will give me destructive criticism instead of constructive crit. I want to get better but I am always a bit nervous to post. |
Posted By: Pieface
Date Posted: 23 October 2006 at 11:15am
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That Jackal really was VERY immature though, he kept asking me to Send him voice clips of my voice so I blocked him and Delted him on MSN, for weeks after that he kept sending me Emails saying "Oh you c**t, i will kill you", or "you pile of sh*t" All because he was blocked |
Posted By: Souly
Date Posted: 23 October 2006 at 12:29pm
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The mature noobs usually don't ever get the hammer. It's only the immature ones that do. I usually wont crack down on someone untill they've ignored any C+C because it's pointless to give it if the person just wont bother taking it into consideration. These people are what have caused PJ to get it's elitist look. As more of them join and keep doing the same thing of course some people in the community are going to be pissed. There have been many times I have been as helpful as I can with my bare knowledge of pixel art. Which isn't all the greatest to begin with. There have been many more times I've gone off the deep-end. I usually don't come into a conversation pissed off. I've usually been annoyed somehow by someone that it's caused me to become angered with them. We all had our patients held out on flameruler13, dur_kuma, jackal, and tomster. We told them what was wrong from our point of view. We showed them what could be done to fix it. After time and time again they never decided to not take any of our help. How are we supposed to act? -------------
I am the jesus of PJ. |
Posted By: Aleiav
Date Posted: 23 October 2006 at 3:15pm
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Originally posted by Cryssy I am always afraid of coming here because I am a sensitive soul and it really doesn't take much to make me cry *esspecially since I quit my prozac* and I am always afraid people will give me destructive criticism instead of constructive crit. I want to get better but I am always a bit nervous to post. I honestly think, nothing personal, that comes from the dolling community influence. And it's understandable. I'm sure I didn't react the best when given C+C for the first time. But the dolling community, for the most part, doesn't have the faintest clue on what C+C should be. According to them, if you give it at all, you should weigh it down with feigned, repetitive compliments and something along the lines of "but it looks great otherwise! tee hee!" I know. I used to do it. Of course... I may be wrong when it comes to you but... that's the impression I get. I think we all realize how much of us goes into our work. Art should be something that comes from inside us in some aspects. But that's why you should want opinions on your work. Because you want to create realistic forms. You want to improve. With your newly acquired skills, think how much better you will be able to create forms that mean something to you, forms that look realistic or semi-realistic and can communicate beyond words to people. If you have so much emotion vested in your art, improving should be something you strive for, IMO. But people who post "zomg ur leik stupid. whatever not ging to listne" aren't the people who invest in their work and care and that's why people get pissed. We put so much of ourselves into improving, into honing skills and forms, light, and colors that some n00b comes along, doesn't listen, and expects hard work and dedication to art to come to him like pissing, and usually n00bs just want art skillz cause they want lots of comments on their grafics, and more asskissing. Most of us take compliments to heart and really appreciate them, especially when we know we've worked hard, and know we've improved. It means so much when someone recognizes that sometimes. So when some n00b just wants his ass kissed, it's like he's degrading hard work, meaningful compliments... sometimes even art itself. THAT's why we get pissed, I think. People don't want to dedicate themselves to art, but they want the praise of talent without working for it. It's insulting. ------------- |
Posted By: Cryssy
Date Posted: 23 October 2006 at 3:38pm
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I like to helped grow in my art but some comments I have seen have been on the side of destructive and I don't have this complex from dolling but from my real life. Most of my time have been spent listening to destructive comments of how I do something wrong. Constructive comments are not "this isn't right" but "this would look much better this way." I have some friends Ana and Jaeden cc my work and I get a lot of advice and insight from them. I love criticism it helps me mature but I hate harshness. Edit: I don't expect anyone to tell me "omg yur lyk so l33t" that isn't why I come here....if that was all that happens here I would say screw it, but I can't always take all criticism because some times some suggestions go against what I was originally trying to accomplish (if that makes sense) I do use some suggestions if I feel they will further the piece I am working on |
Posted By: Monkey 'o Doom
Date Posted: 23 October 2006 at 5:22pm
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Almost everyone has had some critiques that they really don't want to fix/change for stylistic purposes or because it isn't what was originally envisioned. The best thing to do in such a scenario is to politely explain your intentions and back it up with as many reasons as possible. ------------- http://pixelmonkey.ensellitis.com">
RPG is numberwang. |
Posted By: Anlina S.
Date Posted: 23 October 2006 at 9:53pm
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I have no problem with the general tone of this community. Here I find that I get more quality, constructive comments on my artwork than I have any where else, and I find that my c&c is better received here than at any other community I've participated in. While I certainly don't think that any deliberate meanness is productive or even warranted, I've seen very little of it in the time I've been here. Much of the commentary here is blunt and can be harsh, but it seems to be largely constructive and positive, even if it's not gentle. I don't see this community as being hostile to newbies - I'll admit I was apprehensive about joining but I received a very warm welcome, and I've seen many other new folk be similarly welcomed. I'm not really informed on the whole flameruler13 thing, but the impression I get from what I have observed was not that she was banned because she wasn't accepting offered critiques or because she was a newbie, but because her behavior was flamey and trolly. Whether she deserved it or not, I'm not in a place to judge, as I'm still not wholely familiar with the policies of this site. Generally speaking, I don't think communities need to tolerate troll behavior, but I also think people deserve a second chance and will have a hard time integrating if people insist on baiting them. :shrugs: |
Posted By: Aleiav
Date Posted: 23 October 2006 at 10:18pm
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Originally posted by Cryssy I like to helped grow in my art but some comments I have seen have been on the side of destructive and I don't have this complex from dolling but from my real life. Most of my time have been spent listening to destructive comments of how I do something wrong. Constructive comments are not "this isn't right" but "this would look much better this way." Nods. Understandable. Personally, I don't feel that "this isn't right" is a harsh thing to say. I mean, I think "you suck" is worse. If something doesn't look right... well... it doesn't look right, you know? It's not something that you should worry about. Everyone makes mistakes and some things are hard to tell if you've been looking at something for so long, which is why a third eye is good. I think if all that's given is "this isn't right" ... that's destructive and just.. a waste of bandwith. I really hope no one's put off by our directness. People can have the tendancy to take things with the wrong tone, like something personal... and it's really not like that with any of us. I think we're all human and we get pissed and we say crap we don't mean sometimes, but for the most part, it's not personal. There have been people who've made BIG mistakes in the past and redeemed themselves and came back and are now apart of the community.... if I'm not mistaken. ------------- |
Posted By: Larwick
Date Posted: 24 October 2006 at 5:45am
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Anlina S. just thought i'd let you know Flameruler13 was a guy - he was taking the michael when he said he was a girl. ------------- http://larw-ck.deviantart.com">
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Posted By: Blueberry_pie
Date Posted: 24 October 2006 at 6:26am
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Yeah. If you look at the last two posts on http://www.pixeljoint.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3159&PN=1 - this page you can see he was basically just negating the things Feron said. Plus, a couple of days ago he used a new account to ask when 'Flameruler13 will get his account back' :) ------------- |
Posted By: Aleiav
Date Posted: 24 October 2006 at 11:26am
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Flamer is a rare breed of n00b, honestly. People like that come on the internet just to piss people off. I know, I used to do that when I was 12. Except I took it to the Yahoo Fight Chat Room instead of f**king with people elsewhere.
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Posted By: Lawrence
Date Posted: 24 October 2006 at 4:00pm
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But you have to think, "what made him become like that?" Probably things similar to his banning, I'd guess. I think it's better to think about things in terms of groups of people as a whole rather than on an indiviual basis, because everyone on the planet relies on other people so the latter approach is illogical. It think it needs to be looked at holistically. And as far as I saw, he took advice and was pretty friendly up until quite recently; so he clearly does, like everyone, have a great capacity for being a good member. Negativity breeds negativity, and I think he was dealt with in a negative way. I wouldn't call him a n00b, I'd call him a young person who needs help and encouragement, but who was let down. ------------- |
Posted By: Larwick
Date Posted: 24 October 2006 at 4:49pm
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Arghm, i posted a reply but it doesn't seem to have worked. Basically i just said that he didn't join purposefully to annoy us, i actually believe he wanted to improve with his pixel art, he just did it the wrong way which led to the annoyance. ------------- http://larw-ck.deviantart.com">
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Posted By: alkaline
Date Posted: 24 October 2006 at 5:31pm
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I'm sure you guys all remember when you were twelve...possibly on some forums...now seriously, how many of you specifically remember you being a major contributor to the benefit of the board? kudos if you do, but...you don't get a sense of respect and/or real manners other than just posting whatever you feel like until you reach a certain age. it's just natural...and flameruler is a natural 12 year old kid. we won't know for sure, but maybe he'll come back one day and look on his behavior and realize how different he was. maybe.
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