WTF: Approval revoked after months? (FRIENDLY msg)
Printed From: Pixel Joint
Category: The Lounge
Forum Name: Resources and Support
Forum Discription: Help your fellow pixel artists out with links to good tutorials, other forums, software, fonts, etc. Bugs and support issues should go here as well.
URL: https://pixeljoint.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3610
Printed Date: 13 September 2025 at 4:46pm
Topic: WTF: Approval revoked after months? (FRIENDLY msg)
Posted By: Imagician
Subject: WTF: Approval revoked after months? (FRIENDLY msg)
Date Posted: 11 January 2007 at 2:29pm
|
Hello everybody, I'm regularly (almost daily) visiting PJ, though I sadly seldom find the time to contribute own artwork. When I returned to PJ today and checked my messages, I had to learn that the approval for two of my Lil' Dudes I had created and uploaded months ago has been revoked?! The pieces in question are the following: http://www.pixeljoint.com/pixelart/12787.htm - Lil' Doc & Marty http://www.pixeljoint.com/pixelart/12751.htm - Lil' Josephine Baker I really wonder if somebody felt a little bored or something, browsing through ancient submissions and withdrawing the approval? Could the responsible please revoke the withdrawal or explain? Imagician |
Replies:
Posted By: Ensellitis
Date Posted: 11 January 2007 at 2:41pm
|
i went on a "raid" yesterday for all the lil dudes that used 4+ colors or did not use the palette, and revised them. you were 1/2 out of about 30
------------- There's a pubic hair on my keyboard. What the f**k?? I "mow the lawn" so it's not mine. Gross. |
Posted By: Imagician
Date Posted: 11 January 2007 at 3:01pm
|
So...? It's an explanation, but no justification. Besides, your reply doesn't help me any further. Really, no offense, it's just that I don't see no sense in removing pieces that had been part of the Lil Dudes for quite a long time (and besides, not very badly ranked  ). In fact, you didn't only remove them from the Lil' dudes, they're moreover completely unapproved (thus kind of completely "removed") now).What to do now? Go and change a piece after months of being part of a canon and being voted and commented on (which I also don't feel like doing from an artistic POV)? That of course is meant for all the pieces that have been removed, not just mine. I'm not sure if your "raid" really improved the Lil' Dudes list. Imagician |
Posted By: Ensellitis
Date Posted: 11 January 2007 at 3:17pm
|
my explanation is my justification. my job as admin is to attempt to maintain a level of quality in the pj galleries. all of your lil dudes are great, some of the best in the bunch, however, they still do not follow the guidelines for the lil dudes. i stand by my actions, if i had been admin then they never would have been accepted into the gallery in the first place. if you feel i am being unfair, cruel, or whatever, you are more than welcome to r http://www.pixeljoint.com/pixels/contact.asp?subject=member&iurl=/p/1343.htm - eport my actions to the admins higher on the food chain . ------------- There's a pubic hair on my keyboard. What the f**k?? I "mow the lawn" so it's not mine. Gross. |
Posted By: Imagician
Date Posted: 11 January 2007 at 4:10pm
|
I truly presume your overall goal is to do something good to PJ, to help making it better. Said this, there's an important thing one has to keep in mind when pursuing a goal, that is, if the taken action really has the effect desired, that is, contributing to that set goal. This sounds simple, but it's even more crucial when your actions have an effect on a community (or, to put it another way -- people). Considering this, I think belatedly removing a load of pieces from where someone decided them to have a rightful place before (and overriding that one's decision inconsistently and "underminingly") has a smaller good effect on the quality (not to say: none; but that's probably arguable) than it has a bad effect on the people of the community affected (which is not arguable), who had contributed their pieces to PJ. Besides, standing by ones actions generally doesn't necessarily exclude reflecting ones actions and, if found to be indicated, revise former opinions or decisions etc (I'm just mentioning this, because you said it, as if "standing by one's actions" is the same as "i will never reconsider a decision"). That's kind of what I think about it (hope my English was understandable  ). I think your "raid" was not sensible on a global scale, and I really feel kind of "alienated", having my pieces removed afterwards... Sorry, if you think I'm "inflating" this small thing that much. I just think it wasn't the right decision to go and "delete" old pieces. Imagician |
Posted By: Monkey 'o Doom
Date Posted: 11 January 2007 at 4:51pm
|
I think the problem was that originally the rules surrounding lil' dudes submissions were not being enforced to the extent intended. Ensellitis has gone back and cleaned up the lil' dudes project so that pieces not adhering to its guidelines are no longer present. This is not to say that you can't revise and resubmit the pieces, the standard procedure for rejected pixel art. I personally feel that this is indeed an improvement over having to root through large numbers of pieces not complying with the project's rules to find some real lil' dudes. ------------- http://pixelmonkey.ensellitis.com"> 
RPG is numberwang. |
Posted By: Imagician
Date Posted: 11 January 2007 at 5:27pm
|
You are right indeed, Monkey 'o Doom, in saying that "originally the rules surrounding lil' dudes submissions were not being enforced to the extent", and that's just the point. Revising them belatedly doesn't make it better now. Whatever the original rules might have been -- the collection of Lil' Dudes was, after all, not a strict set of pieces adhering to this exact rules, but had become something self-contained, made of all the contributions made by the community's members; something, that had historically grown and made a progress by members who took it into several creative directions. However, what it had become was simply cut by cropping a part of it, making it something different. I don't feel that was a sensible act in terms of creativity, community and artistic development. But that's actually what I think PJ should be about (if I'm allowed to have this perception, even though I didn't post that much stuff yet )You need to understand what effect this "crackdown" has to someone who contributed something to the project. When I discovered the Lil' Dudes project and contemplated what I could do with it, and then posted my takes on it, and they where accepted and praised and became part of the canon, I felt glad they were appreciated and that I had contributed to the project, taking it a step further. Now, when my (and other) pieces were removed from it, I feel a little bit sad and treated unfair, and I don't see no sense in removing them, because it simply crippled what the project has become (and even though Ensellitis might have had something good, something different in mind, that's just what he did, I feel). Having them removed might be good for the rules, but not good for the project, because it's cropping down the creative bandwidth that it had inspired. And, it's not good for the people that might feel offended (and PJ is merely made of people). So much for my pathetic plea Imagician |
Posted By: Aleiav
Date Posted: 11 January 2007 at 5:51pm
|
I don't think it's that big of a deal. I mean, if they didn't meet the guidelines, they didn't meet the guidelines. Just make one that does and submit it.
You can't not enforce rules because people might get offended. In fact, you shouldn't not do anything, IMO, just because people might get offended. It's not like Ens meant anything personally by it. If people take it personally... it's not something he can really control. ------------- |
Posted By: Ensellitis
Date Posted: 11 January 2007 at 6:08pm
|
i do my job without thought of the person. i revised pieces done by mutantenemy the ultimate noob, all the way to larwick, a guy i respect very much. anyways, to wrap this up... i dont care if you have been here 5 years or 5 minutes, when it comes to my administrating, all i see is pixels. if you broke the rules, regulations, or the work really sucks, i will revise it regardless of its time on pj. ------------- There's a pubic hair on my keyboard. What the f**k?? I "mow the lawn" so it's not mine. Gross. |
Posted By: Imagician
Date Posted: 11 January 2007 at 6:10pm
|
I have the feeling I didn't make myself clear. Two points @ Aleiav: It's not what Ensellitis meant to do (of course he didn't mean it personally, he simply meant to improve something), it's about the actual effect of the action. The discrepancy of these two things (set goal/actual perception of action) it what everything people do is about. It's not about enforcing rules deliberately. It's about applying them afterwards, in a situation where it would be more sensible to leave it as it is / what is has become. The thoughtful consideration between these two things (expedient and qualified appliance/non-appliance of rules) is also something crucial if one wants to achieve the optimal result. Imagician |
Posted By: Imagician
Date Posted: 11 January 2007 at 6:18pm
|
@ Ensellitis: I really didn't want to make a point of the fact that I'm not a hard-working-long-time member, or that I thought your action was therefore something personal. I only mentioned my relatively "newbieness" to show that I'm really trying to take a humble stand, in case you --someone who has been here much longer and having contributed much more-- felt offended by me. Of course I less have the right to make demands than someone who has been around much longer (like you). (However, this does not invalidate my point of view)... Imagician |
Posted By: Ensellitis
Date Posted: 11 January 2007 at 6:38pm
|
i in no way felt offended, i know exactly what you meant. i have been in your shoes before and i know it sucks to have anything you spent time on revised. i am just a stickler for the rules is all. the reason i am enforcing these rules after the all of these have been approved and so on is also for the benefit of the new people as well. for the past few months, i have sent back almost every single lil dude submited, because it hasnt fit the guidelines. when they look at the gallery they would see a mixture (almost 50/50) of correctly done lil dudes, and ones not within guidelines. all of yours, with the exception of the 2 in question, are exceptional examples of what you can do with such a constrained palette to work with, and in my opinion, the other ones brought down the integrity of what you had done. if i had offended you in anyway by doing that, i am sorry. in the short time you have been here, you have taken lil dudes to new heights and many who were sick of seeing them with no effort put into them were happy to finally see great works that raise the bar. i would be more than happy to modify the pieces for you to meet the standards then put them back in the gallery. but like i said, i stand by my actions. ------------- There's a pubic hair on my keyboard. What the f**k?? I "mow the lawn" so it's not mine. Gross. |
Posted By: Imagician
Date Posted: 13 January 2007 at 9:48am
Alright, I can see a point in saying that there is a problem in
explaining or justifiyng the refusal of new submissions, when there
already were old ones contained in the "canon" that were also breaking
the rules. Anyway, if it was justified or not to remove them all, I
also see now it's really better to finally leave it now as it is, and
not to switch back again and re-approve them  .So I will consider if it's "possible" to modify my pieces to make them fit into the original rules. In the meantime, would it be possible to approve them, without adding them to the Lil' Dudes page? In fact, this would have been a more appropriate action in the first place (when you did your "raid", that is )BTW, of course I didn't feel personally offended neither .P.S.: Since the original forum post (where the original template was posted and the project was "born") is not available anymore, is there somewhere where the original "rules" can be found? Does it have to be the original palette, or just (any) 4 colors, or green/grey/black/white? I'm just wondering, because there are some Dudes left (i.e. http://www.pixeljoint.com/pixelart/2068.htm - here , http://www.pixeljoint.com/pixelart/11497.htm - here ...), that have more than 4 colors or a modified palette...(alright, I'm a dirty shamus... (is that the word?)  )Imagician |
Posted By: Ensellitis
Date Posted: 13 January 2007 at 10:36am
|
i didnt catch those, they have been revised :) ok, i removed them from the lil dudes section and re added them for you ------------- There's a pubic hair on my keyboard. What the f**k?? I "mow the lawn" so it's not mine. Gross. |