Over the Hedges - Blending Objects
Printed From: Pixel Joint
Category: Pixel Art
Forum Name: WIP (Work In Progress)
Forum Discription: Get crits and comments on your pixel WIPs and other art too!
URL: https://pixeljoint.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=4014
Printed Date: 07 September 2025 at 9:30pm
Topic: Over the Hedges - Blending Objects
Posted By: M.E.
Subject: Over the Hedges - Blending Objects
Date Posted: 29 March 2007 at 10:26am
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Hello All, OK, I've got grass, I've got a stone. Next thing I need are some hedges. Like a maze. These are used as a reference (google thingies):  This is what I did (a bit of both)  I have to have a .gif files for my game, so .png are unfortunately out of the so called picture. That is a shame because so far as I understood the png has the ability to have different shades of transparency. The issue I'm having is that when the tile is used in game it feels like 'cut'-'paste' instead of blending in with the background:  I tried to change the palette of the background to a similar color as the hedge. But then the hedge 'disappears'  Then I tried working with the darkest color of the original background and made another shade towards the other palette:  Applied the same to the stone I had:  This looks already better since it doesn't appear to be a cut-out. But I am wondering if this is the right technique. And/or if there are other ways of doing this? ------------- http://www.kunststukken.nl - KunstStukken.nl M.E. Art |
Replies:
Posted By: PixelSnader
Date Posted: 29 March 2007 at 10:54am
| try using a ditherpattern for the shadow, or alpha transparency, so it will blend better with the grass |
Posted By: M.E.
Date Posted: 29 March 2007 at 12:36pm
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Hello Snader, Thank you very much for your response. Alpha Transparency isn't working with GIF at least I cannot make it work. After I saved the file in GIMP the percentages of the transparancy disappear. So .. i tried the first advice; the ditherpattern. How about this:  I tried using the 'feel' of the grass in some part of the shadow to try to simulate casting shadow on grass. I think it is an improvement, but maybe there are other things I can do?!?! Or maybe I misunderstood using dithering. Thanks in advance for any comments you all may have. Best regards from M.E. ------------- http://www.kunststukken.nl - KunstStukken.nl M.E. Art |
Posted By: PixelSnader
Date Posted: 30 March 2007 at 5:36am
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alpha transparency werkt alleen met het *.png formaat, en ik weet niet of je engine dat ondersteunt
de schaduw ditheren bedoel ik als zodanig (s=schaduw, t=transparant)
s t s t s t s t s
t s t s t s t s t
s t s t s t s t s
t s t s t s t s t
ik denk dat het zou schelen als je de heg ook gedeeltelijk doorzichtig maakt, zodat je het gras er doorheen ziet. en stop er dingetjes als bloemen in en op, dat zal ook schelen
en ik denk dat het ook helpt als je de heggen een roodachtige tint geeft, zowel om het uitsnij effect te verhelpen, alsmede duidelijkheid voor de speler inzake de spelgebieden
weet je zeker dat je de achtergrond niet uit tiles wilt maken maar uit 1 grote bitmap?
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Posted By: M.E.
Date Posted: 30 March 2007 at 11:35am
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Hoi Snader, For those that want to know what my fellow Dutch-man had to offer  Alpha Transparency works with .PNG. This format cannot be used. I can work with GIF and JPG in the game. And I don't want to stress the calculations in the game at the moment, so I'm left with the GIF. The dithering of the shadow explanation doesn't need translation I think, and I'm definitely going to give it a try! Thanks for the effort of displaying what you meant! The advice was also given to make the hedge semi-transparent as well to show the background. Also putting things in it like flowers could help. Giving the fence a redish color will maybe help to prevent the cut-out effect. Furthermore , Snader is asking if I'm sure about making the background out of 1 large bitmap. So .. that gives me a lot to work with! Thanks very much! I'm not sure about any of this, but I want to try and learn. That is why I wanted to use a large bitmap instead of tiles. The tiles I previously used didn't satisfy me enough. But I can always go back to the drawingboard later on when the other objects don't fit in... OK. The following steps: - Dither the shadow - Make some transparency in between the leaves of the hedge. - Put flowers in the hedge. - Work with different colors in the hedge. Thanks again and if anybody else has something to say, please join in! Kind regards, M.E. ------------- http://www.kunststukken.nl - KunstStukken.nl M.E. Art |
Posted By: jalonso
Date Posted: 30 March 2007 at 9:24pm
Jeez, another Hollannetherllandaise, you guys are like viruses  This looks perfect to me ------------- |
Posted By: Pixel_Outlaw
Date Posted: 30 March 2007 at 10:38pm
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This is just my opinion but will such detailed grass detract from your sprites? ------------- http://www.shmup-dev.com/forum/"> 
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Posted By: M.E.
Date Posted: 31 March 2007 at 2:43am
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Hello All, Thank you very much for your feedback. I appreciate it! @Pixel_Outlaw: The virdict on the grass is still out there. I thought it was easier to reduce in detail then it is to add detail. In the past I have been using darker and less detailed backgrounds and it didn't felt 'alive'. But hey maybe I was doing something wrong.... @Jalonso: I take your comments (both) as a compliment @Snader and rest: OK, this what I came up with: 1. Dithering the complete shadow:  2. Dithering the 'outer' shadow  3. Just one line of shadow + dithering:  When using only dithering instead of plain shadow the objects have a strange 'highlight' beneath them. When I must select I think the second one is the best. But personally I would vote for the none-dithering that I had previously. Holes in the hedge:  The hedges should be really firm as they are supposed to block the player. If they became to lose you might think that you can pass them. But then again, in real life, you would be able to force yourself through them anyway... Flowers in the hedge:  Hey, this is nice. It really pops out and is pleasant to look at. Redish leaves (photinia red robin hedge):  This really works well. Allthough it tends to give a more autumn feeling, the bush really says: till here and no further! In case I haven't implemented the suggestions, please correct me! The next phase is to make hedges that go around the corner / cross etcetera. But I want to make sure I'm on the right track of the basic hedge-form. Best regards from M.E. ------------- http://www.kunststukken.nl - KunstStukken.nl M.E. Art |
Posted By: Doppleganger
Date Posted: 31 March 2007 at 12:13pm
| Those red leaved bushes are fantastic. I really like how you did them. |
Posted By: M.E.
Date Posted: 01 April 2007 at 10:31am
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Hello All, Currently there have been many bushes/hedges made but I'm having a problem with the vertical hedge. Maybe I'm having problems in other areas as well, so please feel free to comment on them! But I would like an advice on the vertical one espacially. This is the last mockup :  I have a feeling that the vertical hedge has another structure than the horizontal versions. Here is the WIP in action:  I tried even building the leaves again as I did previously but somehow they don't work. Thanks in advance for pointing me in the right direction. Best regards from M.E. ------------- http://www.kunststukken.nl - KunstStukken.nl M.E. Art |
Posted By: Monkey 'o Doom
Date Posted: 01 April 2007 at 11:02am
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I think that the problem is that all the colors in the top of the vertical hedge are all similar in brightness. Try interspersing it with some of the darker colors and maybe shrinking the highlighted and shadowed sides of the vertical one; it really looks bevelled now. ------------- http://pixelmonkey.ensellitis.com"> 
RPG is numberwang. |
Posted By: M.E.
Date Posted: 01 April 2007 at 12:32pm
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Hello Monkey 'o Doom, Thank you very much for your response. I tried to use your advice, but I'm not sure if I really understood it well. Shrinking the highlighted and shadow sides of the vertical one? Do you mean the outer edges of the hedge? The side of the hedge, or the side of the leaves? I started out with the advice of using more dark in the upper layer of the hedge. First I used a far too large leave and started again with a smaller one:  last version in game:  Maybe I'm doing something wrong with form instead of coloring? Or I misunderstood the advice. Thanks in advance in helping me with my faults! Kind regards from M.E. Edit: In game view ------------- http://www.kunststukken.nl - KunstStukken.nl M.E. Art |
Posted By: Mil
Date Posted: 02 April 2007 at 2:45am
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I really like the way you did the horizontal bushes ! The top leaves of the vertical bushes look smaller than the leaves we see on the front side of the horizontal bushes. The shapes of these leaves seem different, maybe it will look better if you draw some detailed leaves on the vertical bushes? I agree with Monkey 'o Doom about adding some darker colors, that will add depth and will break a little the smooth and flat effect on the top of the bush. Anyway, it's a good work :) |
Posted By: M.E.
Date Posted: 02 April 2007 at 11:42am
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Hello All, Well I am ashamed to say that I have rotated the hedge and copied the top leaves to the vertical version. And then I made two versions. One soft as the orginal horizontal hedge. And a more darker version. Which do you prefer? Find the difference   Thanks in advance for your comments. Best regards from M.E. ------------- http://www.kunststukken.nl - KunstStukken.nl M.E. Art |
Posted By: jalonso
Date Posted: 03 April 2007 at 6:11am
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Looking great, good job. The vertical hedges eem like they are beveled even in your latest versions. As MoD mentioned a more random top pattern where lights and darks are intermixed can fix that quick and easy.
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Posted By: M.E.
Date Posted: 03 April 2007 at 9:39am
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Hello Jalonso, MoD and rest, Well, I saw that I miss-copied on e of the vertical hedges on the last mockup. The verticals were the same .. so no difference there. Only the horizontal had some more darks. Never mind. Here is what I have at the moment. I think it is better than before and the best one yet...  If anybody has something to add and/or comment on, please feel free to do so! Kind regards from M.E. ------------- http://www.kunststukken.nl - KunstStukken.nl M.E. Art |
Posted By: PixelSnader
Date Posted: 04 April 2007 at 2:48am
| are those supposed to be water? |
Posted By: M.E.
Date Posted: 04 April 2007 at 4:46am
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Ha Ha Snader, You caught one of my pre-WIPs on water. I was working on them and they somehow found their way into the hedge-mockup. Those silly tiles! It is supposed to be water. But it needs A LOT of work before I even attempt to ask for help on them. How about the hedges? Can I continue on them as they are or do you think that it needs more work? Kind regards from M.E. ------------- http://www.kunststukken.nl - KunstStukken.nl M.E. Art |
Posted By: jalonso
Date Posted: 04 April 2007 at 10:48am
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The hedges look good. I would only match the shadows on the end of the hedges to match the amount of shadows on the rocks. Unless you are flipping the tiles with code in which case, nvm :)
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Posted By: M.E.
Date Posted: 06 April 2007 at 1:25am
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Hello Jalonso, Since you gave me the go on the hedges, I wend to tidy up the edges and did the casting of the shadows and made a few more of the cross-hedges. This is the current state:  If nobody has anything to comment I will call this done and move on to other challenging objects (like water )Best regards from M.E. ------------- http://www.kunststukken.nl - KunstStukken.nl M.E. Art |
Posted By: pixelblink
Date Posted: 06 April 2007 at 1:47am
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well, it'd be nice to see the tile set as a separate image for one I'm not really a big fan of your grass. There's too much going on in there and it looks almost like a grain filter even though it isn't. It's definitely taking away from the rest of the tiles. The boulders are nicely shaded though I wonder how they stand like that... seems they'd fall over. I suggest having some addtional rocks at the base to help "prop" it up. There's some definite charm to the hedges themselves though I think that sometimes less is more, if you know what I mean. ------------- |
Posted By: M.E.
Date Posted: 06 April 2007 at 2:13am
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Hello PixelBlink, Thank you for your feedback. I don't really understand why you want a tileset, but I made one for you:  I'm not a big fan of grass tiles that give a stichy feeling and I tried to create one that didn't stich. See my previous 'grassland' threat. The grass isn't a tile, it is one large image. The boulders are supposed to be moveable. Putting a rock next to it will not give a feeling that you can move it. The rocks should go into the holes to fill them and make a path for the player. (among other actions you can do with them) I figured when you have much going on on the other objects, the hedges need as well be rich. In case you think I need to do them differently I kindly ask if you could make an edit to show me how I'm supposed to be making them! Thank you for your efforts. Best regards from M.E. Edit: Tileset upload ------------- http://www.kunststukken.nl - KunstStukken.nl M.E. Art |
Posted By: PixelSnader
Date Posted: 06 April 2007 at 2:41am
| the big problem with the rocks is that the bottom is rounded off, which would make them fall over |