WIP- "Some Unclassified Creature"
Printed From: Pixel Joint
Category: Pixel Art
Forum Name: WIP (Work In Progress)
Forum Discription: Get crits and comments on your pixel WIPs and other art too!
URL: https://pixeljoint.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=5424
Printed Date: 30 September 2025 at 6:43am
Topic: WIP- "Some Unclassified Creature"
Posted By: l3m0n5
Subject: WIP- "Some Unclassified Creature"
Date Posted: 20 November 2007 at 7:49pm
First fairly large piece that im not hating so far...i kinda hope to keep the whole cartoony, shiny look to the chameleon and i restricted myself on purpose to see how i would try and make as much detail with my limited pallette...
  EDIT: I DECIDED TO ADD 1 MORE SHADING COLOUR TO GIVE MORE DEPTH/VOLUME... ------------- "Hate is my enemy, Life is short and Life is plenty, keep my eyes on my path cuz i know who sent me" |
Replies:
Posted By: l3m0n5
Date Posted: 22 November 2007 at 9:26am
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I didn't like the curved-in feeling of the main part of the chameleons mouth so i tried to give a different sense of volume and this is what i have so far, i like it much better....feel free to critique anything about it so i can better improve upon it :D 
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Posted By: leel
Date Posted: 22 November 2007 at 10:28am
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I don't have time for anything in depth, but quick note - if you want a shiny cartoony feel, I'd advise against dithering.
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Posted By: l3m0n5
Date Posted: 22 November 2007 at 1:35pm
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well i tried to take out the dithering and lessen the amount of colors because i noticed a lot of them made too much of a pillowy blurry effect under the eyes...so yeah 
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Posted By: l3m0n5
Date Posted: 22 November 2007 at 6:19pm
edited the shading a bit to make it more obvious that the light source is somewhere from the left top
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Posted By: BlackDragon
Date Posted: 22 November 2007 at 7:09pm
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Looking better and better!
Maybe clean the lines more? ------------- "A little pain never hurt anyone." - Blueberry_Pie |
Posted By: l3m0n5
Date Posted: 22 November 2007 at 7:33pm
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ok, i really feel like im making progress on this...
if i decide to keep the cartoony feel and clean it up a bit and AA here and there, this will be somewhat of the outcome :
 BUT!If i decide to take a more realistic turn, and add some scale since he IS a chameleon, i ended up with this...and a bit more colors :P:
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Posted By: cthulhu
Date Posted: 23 November 2007 at 12:40am
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I like your second post. It's cartoony, but as a chameleon isn't perfectly smooth, the dithering works for both depth and a bit of texture. The scales on the very last one look cool, just not on this character.
------------- Artist formerly known as "herbert_west" |
Posted By: l3m0n5
Date Posted: 16 December 2007 at 6:03pm
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Well after about a month of forgetting about this piece, i decided to get back to it and hopefully have it up in my gallery
I decided to take the chameleon in the more cartoony path due to me not liking my original dithering...and so far ive defined the "nose?" a bit more...and added a background cuz i didnt want it transparent...  ------------- "Hate is my enemy, Life is short and Life is plenty, keep my eyes on my path cuz i know who sent me" |
Posted By: Monkey 'o Doom
Date Posted: 16 December 2007 at 7:22pm
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The right eye's lighting is nonsensical; since both eyes are spheres in similar positions lit by the same lightsource, they should look approximately the same, but you've mirrored the one on the right like there's a lightsource over that way. ------------- http://pixelmonkey.ensellitis.com"> 
RPG is numberwang. |
Posted By: l3m0n5
Date Posted: 16 December 2007 at 9:12pm
EDIT: Good eye monkey, don't even know why i did that...sometimes i should pay waaay more attention to each thing i do....yet another lesson learned...
 ------------- "Hate is my enemy, Life is short and Life is plenty, keep my eyes on my path cuz i know who sent me" |
Posted By: E-Bomb
Date Posted: 17 December 2007 at 2:24pm
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LOL, I do the same exact thing sometimes. That's why I keep losing at chess. And the eyes are a bit off. Here's some reference pics if you need: http://delivery.gettyimages.com/xc/200489149-001.jpg?v=1&c=NewsMaker&k=2&d=052B350AE763EDA70DA5383F3F62954CD4B40B3E875A785D - here and http://www1.istockphoto.com/file_thumbview_approve/2982409/2/istockphoto_2982409_chameleon_furcifer_pardalis.jpg - here . |
Posted By: skeddles
Date Posted: 17 December 2007 at 2:24pm
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I had to zoom in to almost 1000% before I could see the shading on the eyes. The ditheryantialiasyness on the thing on his chin looks odd.
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Posted By: BlackDragon
Date Posted: 17 December 2007 at 3:28pm
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Funny, I could see it just fine at 1x, Skeddles. ------------- "A little pain never hurt anyone." - Blueberry_Pie |
Posted By: Hatch
Date Posted: 17 December 2007 at 4:39pm
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Originally posted by BlackDragon
Funny, I could see it just fine at 1x, Skeddles. Likewise. I think a monitor calibration may be in order, sked. Anyway, l3m0n5, you need to start breaking things up into shapes and shading accordingly. You're shading as it stands makes little sense and ultimately looks flat. Quick edit to illustrate: 
1) The head seems to be, overall, a cone with two spheres plugged in for eyes. Shade accordingly if this is indeed what you envision. If you're not comfortable shading a cone, practice shading cones. 2) In your original, you have the right (our right) eyelid mostly in shadow. Just because something is opposite the light source does not mean it has to be in shadow. It's clearly on a higher plane than the rest of the head, it shouldn't be in shadow. 3) you seem to be hovering between having slits for a nose, and actually having a protuberance. Doesn't really matter which you choose, but pick one and stick with it. I arbitrarily went with a protuberance in my edit. 4) The blue on the eyes is wasted, in my opinion. I don't see any reason not to use one of your existing greens. Speaking of the palette, I did some basic and not very good hue shifting. It's kind of dull to have a completely linear ramp. 5) You had some rim speculars which weren't really appropriate, and also some rim shadows. These two things can make your piece look very flat very quickly. Also, remember that speculars are a reflection of a light source. If the light's coming from above left, why would it be reflected on the bottom rim of his lip? That's all I can think of at the moment. Sorry for the novella, and sorry if any of this sounded harsh; I actually really dig the character. I think it's one of your best. ------------- |
Posted By: l3m0n5
Date Posted: 18 December 2007 at 7:28pm
i think so too, and in no way do i consider all that helpfull critiquing harsh. But i think i have more questions than what i started with now. By a ramp, do u mean a scale of growing intensity? or just getting darker and lighter? Because up to now, when ever ive been picking my shades, all i ever did was just move the little arrow up till it was darker and stuck with that...but is it actually better to change or "shift" the hues and colors everytime u pick a new shade or a color for a shade? Cuz to avoid stealing the pallette u made, i tried to experiment with different hues and this is what i got...trying to put as much depth as i could...
 wow i might actually finish this...i edited the bottom part of the guy and went with the protuberance...and i played around with a farmiliar lip texture ive seen so many times but never implemented myself... ------------- "Hate is my enemy, Life is short and Life is plenty, keep my eyes on my path cuz i know who sent me" |
Posted By: Hatch
Date Posted: 18 December 2007 at 8:20pm
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That is an outstanding update and a tremendous improvement. I'm really impressed.
A couple of nitpicks. Firstly, you know this looks basically nothing like a chameleon, yes? It's fine if you've decided it's just some unclassified creature and no longer really a chameleon, but you may want to change the topic title, and rethink the name when/if you submit it to the gallery. You're antialiasing to a white BG. If you're going to have a BG, fine, and if so, you definitely should antialias, but a white BG just looks bad in most cases, and this one of them. It looks like you just forgot to make it transparent, you know? So either color the BG, or ditch it and the AA. And if you DO use a BG and you DO AA, you need to practice it and probably read some tutorials, because you're not doing it very well currently. The eyes. They look more like eggs plugged into his face rather than wet glossy peepers, dig? Maybe try changing the overall color to a not-white, then add strong white speculars to indicate wetness. The bottom lip still looks somewhat flat. I like the texture, that's not what I mean, I mean it doesn't really have a lot of depth. Try pushing the speculars closer to your light source (left) and digging a bit deeper with your dark shades. EDIT: I forgot to address any of your questions about palette: Originally posted by l3m0n5
By a ramp, do u mean a scale of growing intensity? or just getting darker and lighter? A 'ramp' is just a series of colors organized by lightness. You just have a single ramp for this piece (green, skin), but in larger pieces you may have a tan-ish ramp for the skin tones, maybe a yellow ramp for the hair, a red ramp for the shirt, etc. Advanced pixelers can share a lot of colors between ramps on pieces like this, keeping their color count very low and lending the piece a cohesiveness that's hard to come by. See Helm's gallery for very advanced ramp mixing and color blending. Originally posted by l3m0n5
but is it actually better to change or "shift" the hues and colors everytime u pick a new shade or a color for a shade? Yes, generally when your ramps shift hue in addition to brightness it's far more interesting to look at. It's most common to shift toward blue/purple for shadows and yellows for highlights (there's a reason for this. Pay close attention to light and shadow in real life and you'll see what I mean), but if you know what you're doing, there are really no bounds. See Adarias' gallery for unconventional coloring and hue shifts. ------------- |
Posted By: l3m0n5
Date Posted: 19 December 2007 at 3:03pm
Wow, that answered a LOT of questions, thanx man. Really appreicate the help...and i think im getting the hang of picking colors a bit more than just a simple light/brightness ramp....i tried to edit the eyes and shifted the speculars a bit to the left and darkened the shading on the lips a bit to give it a more curvier feel to it:
 ------------- "Hate is my enemy, Life is short and Life is plenty, keep my eyes on my path cuz i know who sent me" |
Posted By: Doomcreator0
Date Posted: 19 December 2007 at 3:22pm
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The effects on his lower lip is great. But the chin is off. Looking nice so far. Maybe give him a grin or something though? ------------- 
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Posted By: Hatch
Date Posted: 19 December 2007 at 4:29pm
You're using rim speculars again 
When you're not sure how to shade something, always look at http://images.google.com/images?q=glossy+sphere&safe=on - references . You'll notice that with a shiny sphere, you generally see a single very bright spot for each light source, not a line, or rim of speculars. Always draw from life. And I'm still not sure about his mouth/lower lip. The mouth as a whole looks entirely segmented, like his bottom jaw is completely disconnected. Also, his lip still lacks depth. Notice how deeply you dug into your darks in the main face area, and compare that to the lip. EDIT: Just for fun, here's a beveled circle brought to you by Photoshop: 
Notice anything interesting about the specular? ------------- |
Posted By: NotSure
Date Posted: 19 December 2007 at 10:59pm
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The funny thing is that I Pixel Pushed a chameleon a few days ago for my own larger project. The specular topic is fun. I liked the viewer right eye from the last pic. It makes it look round, but only because it looks like the eyeball is reflecting a fluorescent light. It may be a mistake, but all great artists run with their mistakes if they improve what they originally intended. Myself, I would leave in the fluorescent light, unless the background absolutely had to be a rainforest. |
Posted By: l3m0n5
Date Posted: 21 December 2007 at 3:06am
lol i know what u mean NotSure, but i tried the "one blob" of specular to show its one bright light source and although, the previous right eye DOES look kool, i'll stick with realism for learning sake...
 oh and Hatch, the answer is that its one long line of of brightness, which doesn't portray a huge bright lightsource properly??*shrugs* ------------- "Hate is my enemy, Life is short and Life is plenty, keep my eyes on my path cuz i know who sent me" |
Posted By: xeroxz2k7
Date Posted: 21 December 2007 at 6:22am
| Personally, I think you've messed the new eyes up. That's just my opinion, though. And, I don't know much. ^^ |
Posted By: Hatch
Date Posted: 21 December 2007 at 7:39am
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Originally posted by l3m0n5
i tried the "one blob" of specular to show its one bright light source and although, the previous right eye DOES look kool, i'll stick with realism for learning sake... I'm glad to hear this. I was afraid you'd take the easy way out. NotSure is correct about the line specular being appropriate for a long fluorescent bulb, but I think it's better if you learn the basics before doing a more uncommon reflection like that. Originally posted by l3m0n5
the answer is that its one long line of of brightness, which doesn't portray a huge bright lightsource properly??*shrugs* Sorry to leave you in the dark. The point I was trying to make was that rim speculars will make a thing look flat because they're characteristic of bevel. Anyhow, the eyes are looking better. The main problem is that your buffering between shades too much (by buffering I mean you're "ramping up" to your bright specular color). Sometimes it's OK (indeed, better) to have a bright butt right up against a dark. When in doubt, consult your references. Study them carefully and practice what you're studying by doing quick sketches until you're confident enough to apply what you've learned to your piece. At least this is what works for me. Another problem is that the specular is so large that it suggests a very close light source. Remember: Speculars are reflections of your light source. Always keep this in mind when working on them. Lastly, I have no clue what's going on with the pupil, etc. The bright highlights make them look like lumps, protuberances. I'm beginning to feel like a broken record, but yeah, references. ------------- |
Posted By: NotSure
Date Posted: 21 December 2007 at 11:59am
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Hatch has some good advice there. member_profile.asp?PF=10709&FID=8 - l3m0n5 What would you say your level of expertise is? And how far do you want to go with eye technique training? This is important, because if you can handle it, I can (and I am sure Hatch can as well) get you up to Hollywood quality eyes in 24-32 bit GFX, which will still be useful for 128 or 256 colour pallets. As with most art rendering techniques, it is a mind F*ck (sorry for the language, but it is the only term that is descriptive of advanced rendering) more than it is difficult to learn... it is about trying to keep 20 visual aspects in mind at exactly the same time and finish by balancing them to a degree. For now, my only advice is very basic. Look at your symmetry. The light spots give the impression that the eyeballs are deformed on the surface, or that there are two independent light sources that are only shining on one eyeball each. This is an easy fix. Yes, the speculars are too large, but without a background, we still do not know if this is a rainforest scene, or maybe he is being interrogated by the CIA and really does have a table lamp shining in his eyes from a short distance. I could point out many other things, face structure, making it more chameleon like, but I believe your work has charm. And to be honest, when I was 18, I made the same mistakes. This is a good thing, not a bad thing. No one can go from "Skilled beginner" to expert in one or two images. If you want help, I will help, but not all in the one image. My advice now? Finish this one image. It is a bad habit to get into, continually reworking the same image and never deciding that it is finished enough. You could expand on the chameleon. You could put him in another pose. |
Posted By: l3m0n5
Date Posted: 21 December 2007 at 6:53pm
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Originally posted by Hatch
Lastly, I have no clue what's going on with the pupil, etc. The bright highlights make them look like lumps, protuberances. I'm beginning to feel like a broken record, but yeah, references. ahaha, i in no way meant for those eyes i slapped in there to be permanent or any portrayal of the eyes i had in mind for this guy at all...it was more of just a filler untill i got the specular and overall volume of the eyeballs done properly before i would add real eyes...but yeah im sorry you feel like a broken record but im telling you man, this is actually working and your advice is not in vain.... I've been trying to fix it up more, ill edit this post when im done the fixing....
[EDIT]
Ok well because the buffering and my quick ramp to the white for the eye's speculars..i decided to cool it down a bit and dither a bit on the outside of the white part of the specular too make it seem less jumpy and contrasting...
 Then i went with the approach of not having such a big specular and i tried to minimize it as one "block" or "blob" if you will...but now i need to know which one you guys think would be more beneficial for this piece considering that im still learning to do it properly....
 in both edits, i also tried to fix the illusion of the second lightsource that NotSure's comment pointed out :D ------------- "Hate is my enemy, Life is short and Life is plenty, keep my eyes on my path cuz i know who sent me" |
Posted By: Hatch
Date Posted: 21 December 2007 at 7:19pm
No reason to apologize. That comment was directed more at myself and my inability to provide better critique than "go look at pictures" 
Simply from how vastly you've improved on this piece it's obvious that you've been very receptive to criticism. ------------- |
Posted By: NotSure
Date Posted: 22 December 2007 at 12:18am
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I will let you in on a secret. (says in hushed tones) ... "bounce light" .... (queue eerie music)
Now, if you do this right, you should have bounce light on all "silhouette"† edges, and a few internal edges. I would not suggest doing it right, take a shortcut here. You cannot expect to do everything in the one picture. Don't run before you can walk. I will walk you though this the easy way, you can save time in pixel art by freehanding it all, but I do not recommend it until it is second nature. For this picture, add shadow to the bottom right of each of the eyeballs (the whites, not the pupils). You can go quite dark at the edge, it is only temporary. Next, choose the eyeball colour (not the shadow or highlight/specualr). Put a one pixel line on the inside of the eyeball outline where the shadow touches. Now use the ramp colours (gradient colours) to blend back into the shadow. Do not use too many pixels, I give you a limit of three pixels wide to work with (eye colour plus two gradient colours) and no more at this size. Later we can discuss drop shadows cutting into speculars, and eyelids catching light. † The silhouette is a technique most commonly used by animators. The silhouette is used in a couple of situations. You can use your imagination to check the silhouette, but if you make a duplicate of your image, and fill/brush it completely black. That is your silhouette. This is a powerful tool in your arsenal. If used correctly you can make anyone understand what is happening in a split second, even if you add no detailing at all to your image. I can send you info if you feel like it some other time. |
Posted By: l3m0n5
Date Posted: 09 January 2008 at 2:29pm
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yeah, about that, i dunno what exactly you mean. I mean, i have SOME sort of idea of what u think i should do but i think not really an EDIT but somesort of EXAMPLE would be very much appreciated, :D This goes out too anyone who could crit this more :D ------------- "Hate is my enemy, Life is short and Life is plenty, keep my eyes on my path cuz i know who sent me" |
Posted By: Hatch
Date Posted: 09 January 2008 at 4:40pm
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I don't really have any clue what he was talking about either.
Anyhow, I missed your last update. I think you're on the right track with the two separate specular 'blobs'. I would remove your buffer shade altogether. You could use it for antialiasing if you're comfortable with it, but it's not necesary. I would absolutely not use it for shading. Just use one tone for the specular. And I would probably increase the size of the speculars and move them away from the edge! Remember your light source is coming from front-left. Try to visualize its exact position. Lastly, I just want to say how awesome it is that you're being so dedicated and patient with this piece. It's a rare and admirable thing. Keep rocking. ------------- |
Posted By: l3m0n5
Date Posted: 09 January 2008 at 7:06pm
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Thank you very much Hatch, but i dont think my patience and dedication even stands close to that which was put into Jalonso's "Yaaaaarrgh" piece, which i STILL don't think he's totally finished with...but yeah heres, my attempt at further improving this piece, what NotSure meant, im still not sure but i tried to guess and take a whack at it. I also increased the specular blob sizes and moved them further from the edge..i think im getting there...slowly but surely :D No thanks to your help buddy..  ------------- "Hate is my enemy, Life is short and Life is plenty, keep my eyes on my path cuz i know who sent me" |
Posted By: Hatch
Date Posted: 09 January 2008 at 8:19pm
That looks soooooo much better. I still have some concerns about the bottom jaw looking completely disconnected from the rest of the face. I think just a few pixels of connective tissue would do the trick.  ------------- |
Posted By: l3m0n5
Date Posted: 10 January 2008 at 3:16pm
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I agree that it does look a bit dismembered from the jaw so i tried connecting it and fixing the bottom part of the "upper lip" which was actually bothering me for a while now...:P
------------- "Hate is my enemy, Life is short and Life is plenty, keep my eyes on my path cuz i know who sent me" |
Posted By: l3m0n5
Date Posted: 12 January 2008 at 8:01am
I think im getting close to submitting this so i decided to touch up a few of the green bits of my ramp that i didn't use properly and i used the new colours from the eyeball shade to touch up and smoothen a bit of the rest of the piece.
 ------------- "Hate is my enemy, Life is short and Life is plenty, keep my eyes on my path cuz i know who sent me" |
Posted By: Hatch
Date Posted: 12 January 2008 at 1:04pm
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I think you should shrink the width of the bottom lip to match the tp lip, but leave some flesh on either side. Having the mouth go all the way from edge to edge I think is what's causing the separation. ------------- |
Posted By: l3m0n5
Date Posted: 12 January 2008 at 4:57pm
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Alrighty, i tried to shorted the bottom lip's width and in that process i found that my lip texture on the bottom lip was a bit random and too "sparkly" and so i changed it up.  ------------- "Hate is my enemy, Life is short and Life is plenty, keep my eyes on my path cuz i know who sent me" |
Posted By: l3m0n5
Date Posted: 19 January 2008 at 4:50pm
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sorry for the double post but this is one piece ive been really wanting in my gallery, so if anyone has any more suggestions i will try and implement those into the piece, i may be mistaken but i think this piece is getting close to its finishing... ------------- "Hate is my enemy, Life is short and Life is plenty, keep my eyes on my path cuz i know who sent me" |
Posted By: absinthelord
Date Posted: 20 January 2008 at 3:17pm
| I think it's a pretty good looking piece. It's working out quite well, and I particularly enjoy the surface texture you've created.... It just might be ready, IMO. |
Posted By: Monkey 'o Doom
Date Posted: 20 January 2008 at 7:28pm
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I think the antialiasing on the left eye is a bit wonky--it looks jagged and broken in some places. ------------- http://pixelmonkey.ensellitis.com">
RPG is numberwang. |
Posted By: l3m0n5
Date Posted: 20 January 2008 at 8:13pm
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did u mean our left or the creatures left? and even then, did u mean just the pupil of the eye or the whole outer part of the entire eyeball, the small selout?
in any case, ive duplicated the right eye so there should be no problem with it, unless u meant "HIS" left...
 ------------- "Hate is my enemy, Life is short and Life is plenty, keep my eyes on my path cuz i know who sent me" |
Posted By: Monkey 'o Doom
Date Posted: 20 January 2008 at 8:38pm
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I meant OUR left, particularly the edge where it meets the face. Sorry about that. Do you see what I mean now that it's more clear? ------------- http://pixelmonkey.ensellitis.com">
RPG is numberwang. |
Posted By: Hatch
Date Posted: 20 January 2008 at 8:43pm
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And remember, you should only AA after you've cleaned up your line as much as possible. It's a very messy, jagged curve on that eye. ------------- |
Posted By: l3m0n5
Date Posted: 20 January 2008 at 8:43pm
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ooooo! I see, and your absolutely right, ill get on that first thing tomorrow but for today, "gnight y'all" and dont worry bout it. :P ------------- "Hate is my enemy, Life is short and Life is plenty, keep my eyes on my path cuz i know who sent me" |
Posted By: l3m0n5
Date Posted: 21 January 2008 at 1:42pm
Cleaned up the jaggie waggies and aa'ed a bit on it and touched up a bit of the fat juicey left eye lid...
 ------------- "Hate is my enemy, Life is short and Life is plenty, keep my eyes on my path cuz i know who sent me" |