is something wrong here?
Printed From: Pixel Joint
Category: The Lounge
Forum Name: Diversions
Forum Discription: Get to know your fellow pixel freaks. Chat about anything to do with video games, comic books, anime, movies, television, books, music, sports or any other off topic bs you can think of.
URL: https://pixeljoint.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=8577
Printed Date: 05 November 2025 at 2:49am
Topic: is something wrong here?
Posted By: unicorngirl
Subject: is something wrong here?
Date Posted: 20 June 2009 at 2:45pm
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am I the only one who thinks PJ has gotten nitpicky, elitist, unsupportive, and downright mean? Posting pixel art here is a stressful experience for me because I'm always worried it will get taken down for some reason or I'll get negative comments. And I love the Challenges, but the rules are SO strict and they seem to follow the letter of the law rather than the spirit and exclude rather than include and foster growth. And from what I hear, pixel art gets rejected ALL the time that doesn't seem much worse than some of the stuff that's up - I think better artists should be helping not-so-great artists get better, not kick them out. Has it always been like this? I'm a relatively new member but I've been around a few months and it seems hospitable enough at first, I thought it was just a more "serious" venue. Now I'm just sick of dealing with all the nitpicking and "constructive criticism." I did my best to comment with encouragement on others' works and inject some niceness, but what can one person do?
I belong to another pixel art community for a specific type of collaborative pixel art, and the WHOLE worldwide community, no matter what forum you're on, is on the whole really supportive, costructive, fun and friendly to even the worst newbies. I was just frankly shocked that this community is so different. I'm thinking about leaving. Does anyone know of a "nicer" pixel art community?
I'd rather try to make this community better, but I'm not sure how. I hope someone will read this and take it upon themselves to be more encouraging. I'm not trying to witchhunt or start a revolution here, I'm just saying we can all be a little nicer to each other and remember the important thing is having fun. ------------- ~~Uni http://intangibledollz.livejournal.com"> 
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Replies:
Posted By: A.B. Lazer
Date Posted: 20 June 2009 at 3:31pm
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Yes, I also feel that things gradually getting worse. Rules tend to be more important than the piece. And with it PJ tends to be more and more closing on itself. For example, following piece stands in the queue almost a week:
http://www.pixeljoint.com/pixelart/43930.htm - http://www.pixeljoint.com/pixelart/43930.htm It's drawn not too masterfuly but with obvious care and is quite enjoyable to look at. So why it's still in queue? Moderators know, I don't know. I can only guess that it maybe it deals with 2x pixels - and I am at PJ for 2 years now. Novice artist wouldn't guess even that and probably left the site by now. But I know communities far, far worse, where pros hanging around, who speak politely but closed on rules even more and will not give a word of wisdom on your work if you will not start to 'socialise' and spread your wisdom on works of others. Luckily I left them in a day. Don't know, however, if what I told is relevant to you. Do you distracted because everybody gives a critique? To me, that comments are supposed to have some critique in it, is the best thing in PJ. You can always see the works behind the words and know their actual weight. Also I like that you don't have to be known person and may (or may not - based on the piece) gather critique right from the start, just by posting pics. I post here for critique and for some praise and to see what I draw through different eyes. Only thing that I don't like in critique is when it deals with things that doesn't matter and don't require an artist's eye at all - like white backgrounds and gradients. All in all, PJ, as any community, is not ideal, but not too bad at the same time to leave. I think pluses outweight minuses. Creating atmosphere hangs on the shoulders of the community members, but their ideas of good and bad differ, hence the problems and argues as current. |
Posted By: cure
Date Posted: 20 June 2009 at 4:21pm
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being friendly isn't our job, improving skill level and helping through constructive criticism are. if members voted more, border-line pieces wouldn't have to sit in the queue. Grey-area works are processed as we're able to. quality level is subjective, and we like to get community feedback. i don't really think that other community sounds so bad. you join the community, the community doesn't join you. if anyone would like to volunteer for a welcoming committee, let me know. some people take crits and improve, and critique has helped every artist immensely. how good the artist is often depends on how well they take criticism. white backgrounds can ruin a piece's aesthetic, that is art relted. gradients are only disallowed if they're not done by hand. |
Posted By: A.B. Lazer
Date Posted: 20 June 2009 at 6:14pm
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Originally posted by ThereIsNoCure
i don't really think that other community sounds so bad. you join the community, the community doesn't join you. if anyone would like to volunteer for a welcoming committee, let me know. Oh, that community FELT bad. I posted some music tracks on music productuction forum to hear if they have some common mistakes in them. (Like if I was pillowshading-too much dithering-wrong colors-overantialiasing guy, speaking in pixel terms.) No response. I commented on it. They said that before posting tracks I should make some activity commenting others and then post one track at a time because even old-times don't dare to post more than one at once. Or they would not have enough motivation to comment. They had no clue and pointed me to their standard behaviour which contradicted what I politely wrote in my entry message (why the hell I supposed to help others with music production if I can't help even myself yet?). Nah, it's semi-offtopic. |
Posted By: jalonso
Date Posted: 20 June 2009 at 8:04pm
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@unicorn girl am I the only one who thinks PJ has gotten nitpicky, elitist, unsupportive, and downright mean? • No, many do, an equal amount feel exactly the opposite. Like 50/50...just like everything in life. We are also not really a support group or emo-AA. We who help run the site are pixelartists too and like to pixel ourselves. It may escape you but, if creating a site for you to showcase yourself, show your art, and learn from others for free is nitpicky, elitist, unsupportive, and downright mean then...see ya! Posting pixel art here is a stressful experience for me because I'm always worried it will get taken down for some reason or I'll get negative comments. •Not much can be done about this. Any artist who shows work publicly must be ready for the onslaught, not everyone is Henry Darger. And I love the Challenges, but the rules are SO strict and they seem to follow the letter of the law rather than the spirit and exclude rather than include and foster growth. •Its for this reason we call them challenges and not spiritual exercises. And from what I hear, pixel art gets rejected ALL the time that doesn't seem much worse than some of the stuff that's up •Indeed, you should see all the crap that comes in and y'alls never even see in the queue. Lil Dudes alone keep us quite busy. We are not perfect but we do try never to judge one's art versus anothers. Some of this 'stuff' can be an individual improvement and or even a personal triumph. When adding art we regularly visit the members' gallery to see if its their individual 'good quality'. - I think better artists should be helping not-so-great artists get better, not kick them out. •We never ban anyone or kick anyone out for any reason other than spamming, stealing art or being a total douche, ask Pixelarg ;) Everyone is an individual and not everyone expresses themselves in a nice way or cares to be helpful. Not-so-great artists equally have great ideas and c+c. Has it always been like this? •Yes, and we love it! (well 50% do) I'm a relatively new member but I've been around a few months and it seems hospitable enough at first, I thought it was just a more "serious" venue. Now I'm just sick of dealing with all the nitpicking and "constructive criticism." •You want 'serious' but no constructive criticism...hmmmm... o.O I did my best to comment with encouragement on others' works and inject some niceness, but what can one person do? •A person can have moral convictions and stick to them without prejudice. You be you and stay you no matter what others throw back. This is not only what one can do, but must do. I belong to another pixel art community for a specific type of collaborative pixel art, and the WHOLE worldwide community, no matter what forum you're on, is on the whole really supportive, costructive, fun and friendly to even the worst newbies. • ... I was just frankly shocked that this community is so different. I'm thinking about leaving. Does anyone know of a "nicer" pixel art community? •Being elitist and downright mean how would we know :/ I'd rather try to make this community better, but I'm not sure how. •Stop bitching!!! Keep making awesome pixels like your new 'egads!' piece. I hope someone will read this and take it upon themselves to be more encouraging. I'm not trying to witchhunt or start a revolution here, I'm just saying we can all be a little nicer to each other and remember the important thing is having fun. •Nice sentiment, but really boring if this would happen. Some are gentle and sweet and you must be kind. Others are lazy and you must kick their ass. Many are lazy and you must be blunt. Several (you know who you are) are sarcastic motherf**kers and you must treat them to their own medicine. The list is long on personality types... ...chill :) ------------- |
Posted By: jalonso
Date Posted: 20 June 2009 at 8:34pm
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@A.B.Lazer Yes, I also feel that things gradually getting worse. •PJ is a community driven site. If it gets worse its your fault. I actually feel the opposite, just today stOven added a piece to his gallery...BOOM!!! PJ is 1000% better. Rules tend to be more important than the piece •Because pixelart is a technique driven artform. Creativity and originality goes a long way but the pixel matter because we are PIXELjoint not PIECEjoint. And with it PJ tends to be more and more closing on itself. For example, following piece stands in the queue almost a week: http://www.pixeljoint.com/pixelart/43930.htm •We like to add four pieces at a time so that you all have optimal front page exposure. Sometimes we have questions for whatever reason (usually BG related) or some other issue which we PM the person. They either don't reply, or take forever to do so and what are we to do get secretaries to keep up with all the little things that go on and the endless PM questions we must answer when they are already somewhere on the site or the forum and most never bother to to a simple search. If the artist don't give a f**k, we don't give a f**k. I'll send great art back just because the artist says in the description that its crap, they are the expert on their work, not me. It's drawn not too masterfuly but with obvious care and is quite enjoyable to look at. •No one has said otherwise, other than the artist herself calling it 'total' crap. So why it's still in queue? Moderators know, I don't know. •Now you know. I can only guess that it maybe it deals with 2x pixels - and I am at PJ for 2 years now. Novice artist wouldn't guess even that and probably left the site by now. •We have to believe that even n00bs can read PMs sent to them. Maybe when we start ILLITERATEjoint this will no longer be an issue. But I know communities far, far worse, where pros hanging around, who speak politely but closed on rules even more and will not give a word of wisdom on your work if you will not start to 'socialize' and spread your wisdom on works of others. Luckily I left them in a day. •Are you aware how many WIP threads get help, c+c, advice, edits and then not only is nothing done with this but the piece is sitting in the queue at the same time. I can totally understand not ever commenting unless its on someone's piece who you know will take it...I wish I could do this. Don't know, however, if what I told is relevant to you. Do you distracted because everybody gives a critique? To me, that comments are supposed to have some critique in it, is the best thing in PJ. You can always see the works behind the words and know their actual weight. Also I like that you don't have to be known person and may (or may not - based on the piece) gather critique right from the start, just by posting pics. I post here for critique and for some praise and to see what I draw through different eyes. •This must be for unicorn girl... Only thing that I don't like in critique is when it deals with things that doesn't matter and don't require an artist's eye at all - like white backgrounds and gradients. •Because we have rules. Because gradients are NOT pixelart, because for a site that has a great deal of gaming art, transparent BGs is the least one can do. Because we have many colored themes. Because its one of the only things we ask. All in all, PJ, as any community, is not ideal, but not too bad at the same time to leave. I think pluses outweight minuses. Creating atmosphere hangs on the shoulders of the community members, but their ideas of good and bad differ, hence the problems and argues as current. •A wise thing to say. I am surprised to hear your displeasure, I thought you liked it here... ...I like you here :) ------------- |
Posted By: Tipleloop
Date Posted: 21 June 2009 at 12:40am
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I new here but I like it here.. O_Oa maybe people was cold here... but u see I was a Global moderator in one manga forum... and I know is not easy to run a forum... (unpaid labor job) I need to approve some Pic too, is not as easy as anyone think, I need to do some research before I can approve it, the bigest problem is the total of Pics they can upload in 1 day and the little time I have (sometimes it reach 30 pics/day). I hate art stealing the most, I leave some pic unapprove, but then they mock me and do some spam in the forum. Is not that I dont remind them, i did PM them and post how to upload Pic to get approved, what can I do if they dont read it? language problem? sorry if english not my mother language... but I think I can use english well enough to make they understand the mail contents... (Opss got carried away..) one Tips maybe u can find some Rules or do some reaserch "why my Pixel not approved?" It can help alot... I not a good pixel myself so I cant say much why my pixel unapproved.. (but then I find out maybe I use to much colors on it or it was too easy). oh and about critique... I prefer critique better than praise, I happy if I got critique. I draw from age of six (mostly manga) and I can see which part of my pic was wrong, but what I got is Praise and praise, is that help u to improve ur pic? no it doesnt. sometime some critique maybe seems unreasonable but belive in me, they can see it more clearly than u did. ^^ thats all from me.. sorry I'm still newbie in pixel, and is not fit for newbie like me to join this kind of conversation. but I hope u can understand after reading what I wrote here ^^ |
Posted By: ellie-is
Date Posted: 21 June 2009 at 6:24am
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"•We never ban anyone or
kick anyone out for any reason other than spamming, stealing art or
being a total douche, ask Pixelarg ;)" Why ask Pixelarg? Anyway, I agree with everything Jal said. |
Posted By: A.B. Lazer
Date Posted: 21 June 2009 at 7:23am
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Originally posted by jalonso
•No one has said otherwise, other than the artist herself calling it 'total' crap Crap! I tend to support artist's opinion about crappines of the work no matter of actual qualities - because you gotta have pride. And tend to not read descriptions all the time, it seems. I haven't thought about PMs. I like it being here, but I don't like EVERYTHING. Of course, something slips through the fingers and has more/less care than should. While taking total control is impossible, being aware of current state of minds will do no harm. With crits and comments into the void - to me it's very simple - I see piece and if I have something to say, usually the comment is ready in seconds, I just have to type it. |
Posted By: Hapiel
Date Posted: 21 June 2009 at 1:44pm
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Originally posted by jalonso Has it always been like this? •Yes, and we love it! (well 50% do) Jeez I was going to type a reply about partly unrelated things and how I thought that if nowadays someone would submit those sets of sedgelike icons, you know what I mean, it would never get in queue. But My mirror just fell of my wall, after opening this reply box. So I am going to look for a solution, bye ------------- |
Posted By: Emtch
Date Posted: 22 June 2009 at 8:22am
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Yes, many people here are elitist and mean, but what do you expect when there are so many incredibly crappy 'artists' posting their 5 minute work here.
The more n00bs, the more elitists, it's completely natural.
I'm not trying to be offensive, and I'm not naming any names, but there are many users who have been here for years and have a big gallery full of total crap, showing no improvement whatsoever. And most people can't even be bothered to check some other pixel art or do some art studies before putting their half-finished crap up.
Most people who get banned or get their stuff removed deserve it.
Why even come to a community if you can't follow the rules or actually put some thought into the stuff you make?
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Posted By: greenraven
Date Posted: 22 June 2009 at 12:05pm
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Originally posted by ThereIsNoCure if anyone would like to volunteer for a welcoming committee, let me know. I've been the unofficial welcome wagon since day one.  Ok, on to the serious stuff... About the unsupportive, mean, nitpicky, elitist thing: It really depends. I mean we've had famous and well known artists *coughcoughpaulrobertsoncoughcough* scream 'pixel nazis', so it does make you wonder a bit. And there are people who feel the need to be douchebags and leave awful comments that are not constructive in any way shape or from. HOWEVER! There's just one very important thing to remember: Pieces can and will be rejected from the gallery, but nothing is ever rejected from the WIP forum. The forums is where you grow as an artist. The main site is nothing more than a giant popularity contest. Originally posted by unicorngirl I did my best to comment with encouragement on others' works and inject some niceness, but what can one person do? Fret non mon cher... Originally posted by a certain mod who shall remain nameless what?? how about you start actually telling people they need to improve instead of all this happy go lucky crap i see you posting. the only thing you are helping is your comment count. Originally posted by greenraven Nothing wrong with telling people to improve. But at the same time not everyone can handle the cold hard truth, the kiddy gloves are there to keep the children encouraged and from simply giving up. And as for the comment count thing, I only comment to give people a warm happy fuzzy feeling. I've never been one for ranks and numbers, feel free to reset my comment count to 0 if you see fit, I really won't mind... too much. Like jal said, stick to your guns, even if it turns into Custard's last stand. -------------  "pwnage comes with patience, practice and planning." ~ Jalonso 
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Posted By: God_Is_Evil
Date Posted: 22 June 2009 at 2:55pm
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The only issue I've run into on pixel-joint is the weird explanation-less rejections of artwork that is way over the quality of the noob-art you normally see. My friend draws way better pixelart then i do but refuses to post here because his first picture was rejected after someone commented that the light on some of the glass was not how it would really be. Other than the fact that the object that he was drawing was sitting next to him and it looked just like he drew it. And that might not even be the issue with the pic either, Never received a explanation... neither me nor gerg"that's my friends name" have any idea as to why it was rejected just that the last comment was saying that the light was not quite right... then suddenly REVISION NEEDED.... So gerg said "What the F^6k?? and never bothered trying to resubmit it because as far as he could tell someone rejected the pic because of a imaginary flaw... and I'm not talking about a small 64 x 64 pic im talking about a pic that was around H-500 x W-200 and was great according to everyone that posted other than the "light issue guy". And that just makes the problem seem to be that some of the elitist people think toooooooooooooooooooooooo highly of their skills. After a short look at their gallery I'm stuck thinking... dude, your not sooo good that whatever looks sorta weird to you must be a major flaw in the picture.... that's just being pushy and stunting improvement by confusing people with retarded c n c. If the person has even a few sorta good pics I'm all for getting help from them, but when artwork is refused because the shading is not exactly correct in a single spot according to one dude that's stupid. The most annoying thing was that no explanation was ever sent.. I had this problem with my old account when i was first starting. I just figured that it was a system error or some sh*t because there was no explanation. as to the niceness thing..... who cares?....... that's stupid, people can take some minor insults. And if the person gets outta hand the mods will just ban them or erase his/her posts. ------------- |
Posted By: jalonso
Date Posted: 22 June 2009 at 4:16pm
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Art is subjective. Its very difficult to explain in detail why every single piece was sent back for revision, NOT rejected. All revision notices clearly say that if you want reasons, explanations, etc. to PM a Mod or post on the forum for feedback and possible answers. Most do not do this :| Guys, we who Mod PJ have lives too. We like to pixel ourselves. We are not here scratching 'da nutz' awaiting for you or spending endless hours of our day explaining things that have been said countless times and a simple search could answer. Y'alls can also ask other members. We are a community driven site. I personally try to send PMs but sometimes I log on for a minute and don't really have the time to write a note that is often followed up with PMs asking me to edit, explain, teach, stroke, pat, hug ... sometimes a judgement is made and if there is a question I wait to be asked. We try, but jeez, give us a break. ------------- |
Posted By: God_Is_Evil
Date Posted: 22 June 2009 at 4:54pm
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You could also just send out a very generic message informing the person that they are REQUIRED to post in the WIP to bring the pic up to standard. When i first started out i was just lost as to what to do exactly. I looked at WIP, and I was thinking.. OOOOOO ok so if I'm not done make a topic. But i figured your not supposed to be asking for help on a pic your done with but need to revise. Because i would only be posting a topic about as long as "whats wrong? [IMG]PICTURE[IMG]". And at this point i still had no idea what i did wrong at all in the first place. It's been a while since i had to revise a pic so i don't even know if that's already what you do. But sending a template for a revision help topic to the persons pm box would help. or something like that. |
Posted By: cure
Date Posted: 22 June 2009 at 6:19pm
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@greenraven: probertson is immature as an artist, the fact that he's well known is irrelevant. arguments from authority are logical fallacies, m'kay @god_is_evil: we don't reject art for flaws as dumb as that. more than likely it was just poorly pixelled, but i'd have to see the piece in question. he's free to post in the resources/support forum if he wants to know why it was rejected, we have several categories we send work back for, and don't have the time to explain every single rejection. and they aren't required to post a WIP, though we do often suggest it. but sending even generic messages to every rejection also takes a lot of time. |