Some Guy
Printed From: Pixel Joint
Category: Pixel Art
Forum Name: WIP (Work In Progress)
Forum Discription: Get crits and comments on your pixel WIPs and other art too!
URL: https://pixeljoint.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9836
Printed Date: 23 October 2025 at 2:56am
Topic: Some Guy
Posted By: Pumpkinbot
Subject: Some Guy
Date Posted: 09 February 2010 at 7:56am
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I'm making some guy. :| Need help with the lips, srsly. Mine fail. Epically. I'm going for a more realistic style now. -PICTURE OUTDATED- Any comments about the colors of the lips? Shape? Size? Anything? |
Replies:
Posted By: iggybork
Date Posted: 09 February 2010 at 9:58am
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Trying to draw more realistically, eh? Draw things as they appear naturally? You seem to be drawing from what you remember, or what you think eyes/lips/noses should look like, which means you're still not sure how faces really look. As I have a one-track mind about situations like this, I wonder what I'm going to say...
Oh right. Use a reference!!!1!1
http://www.flickr.com/photos/seanelliott/3595160451/ - http://www.flickr.com/photos/seanelliott/3595160451/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/seanelliott/3540908270/in/set-72157622902977816/ - http://www.flickr.com/photos/seanelliott/3540908270/in/set-72157622902977816/
(You seemed to be going for male, so I found you some men.)
You may also want to crop what you have right now, or at least resize it. I can tell you right now that you're going to spend a lot of time on that face, and trying to add a body (and a body that big!) is going to take awhile, especially when you're learning, especially when it's pixel art. Why not do a bust instead?
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Posted By: dpixel
Date Posted: 09 February 2010 at 10:05am
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I'm really no good at this style, but I think you would need to choose a light source and do some shading. A lot of what makes up the way a person looks is the shape of the head and you really can't see that without more lines. I suggest you read: Fun With A Pencil by Andrew Loomis You can get it here: http://www.placidchaos.com/AM/index.php/2006/02/21/andrew_loomis - http://www.placidchaos.com/AM/index.php/2006/02/21/andrew_loomis
Even after 1 or 2 chapters you'd be on your way.
[ ------------- |
Posted By: Pumpkinbot
Date Posted: 09 February 2010 at 4:41pm
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Originally posted by iggybork From what I remember? Kinda, I guess. I can draw heads great when it's perfectly straight forward, but this head's tilted. And, yeah, I'll resize it, but I'm not going to do a bust 'cause it's gonna be for a character bio for a story I'm writing. :> The other character will follow this guy.Trying to draw more realistically, eh? Draw things as they appear naturally? You seem to be drawing from what you remember, or what you think eyes/lips/noses should look like, which means you're still not sure how faces really look. As I have a one-track mind about situations like this, I wonder what I'm going to say... Oh right. Use a reference!!!1!1
http://www.flickr.com/photos/seanelliott/3595160451/ - http://www.flickr.com/photos/seanelliott/3595160451/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/seanelliott/3540908270/in/set-72157622902977816/ - http://www.flickr.com/photos/seanelliott/3540908270/in/set-72157622902977816/
(You seemed to be going for male, so I found you some men.)
You may also want to crop what you have right now, or at least resize it. I can tell you right now that you're going to spend a lot of time on that face, and trying to add a body (and a body that big!) is going to take awhile, especially when you're learning, especially when it's pixel art. Why not do a bust instead? Originally posted by dpixel Awesome. :D Thanks.I'm really no good at this style, but I think you
would need to choose a light source and do some shading. A lot of what
makes up the way a person looks is the shape of the head and you really
can't see that without more lines. I suggest you read: Fun With A
Pencil by Andrew Loomis You can get it here: http://www.placidchaos.com/AM/index.php/2006/02/21/andrew_loomis - http://www.placidchaos.com/AM/index.php/2006/02/21/andrew_loomis
Even after 1 or 2 chapters you'd be on your way.
[ EDIT: Upon coming back to this, I realized it sucks. I'm redoing this (and I guess I gotta if I'm gonna change the size of the drawing). EDIT2: And I'm also gonna try a different (and easier) view. |
Posted By: NaCl
Date Posted: 09 February 2010 at 9:19pm
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Don't do an easier view... the reason you can do a forward looking face "great" is because you've just memorized a set of symbols that give a decent result. That is a plateau, and there is no advancement from that point.
Anyway the reason it doesn't look good is because instead of representing the object faithfully, you have inserted simplistic symbols in place of facial features. You got a few ellipses for the eyes, a line coming around for the nose, and then some slightly more complex symbol for the mouth. To draw well you can't draw symbols, you have to convey volume purposefully. |
Posted By: Pumpkinbot
Date Posted: 10 February 2010 at 7:45am
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Originally posted by NaCl Yeah, I switched back to the same view. But I don't get what you mean about the shapes. You make arms out of cylinders, a head out of an oval, a hand out of a cube, etc. What do you mean?Don't do an easier view... the reason you can do a forward looking face "great" is because you've just memorized a set of symbols that give a decent result. That is a plateau, and there is no advancement from that point. Anyway the reason it doesn't look good is because instead of representing the object faithfully, you have inserted simplistic symbols in place of facial features. You got a few ellipses for the eyes, a line coming around for the nose, and then some slightly more complex symbol for the mouth. To draw well you can't draw symbols, you have to convey volume purposefully. |
Posted By: AngelOTG
Date Posted: 10 February 2010 at 3:08pm
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I think that's your problem. You're being overly technical about this. People are meant to look natural. We don't have perfectly cylindrical arms, perfectly boxy hands, or perfectly ovular heads. You have to learn to break away from those guidelines, because otherwise your people will turn out too much like stick figures. My suggestion is to go to YouTube and look for a guy named Mark Crilley. He draws manga and has a ton of tutorials. He describes how to do it in great detail. That'll help you a lot. |
Posted By: NaCl
Date Posted: 10 February 2010 at 3:34pm
| Using basic 3D forms to help guide making more complex ones is good. What I was talking about was using 2D symbols in place of 3D forms. Like look at your eye. Does an eye really look like that? No, what you drew is just an ellipse with a circle in the middle of it. An eye is a 3D thing with volume, what you drew is a 2D shape with no volume. |
Posted By: Pumpkinbot
Date Posted: 10 February 2010 at 6:31pm
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Originally posted by NaCl I see...Hmm...*goes back to work*Using basic 3D forms to help guide making more complex ones is good. What I was talking about was using 2D symbols in place of 3D forms. Like look at your eye. Does an eye really look like that? No, what you drew is just an ellipse with a circle in the middle of it. An eye is a 3D thing with volume, what you drew is a 2D shape with no volume. Originally posted by AngelOTG Manga? In my art?I think that's your problem. You're being overly technical about this. People are meant to look natural. We don't have perfectly cylindrical arms, perfectly boxy hands, or perfectly ovular heads. You have to learn to break away from those guidelines, because otherwise your people will turn out too much like stick figures. My suggestion is to go to YouTube and look for a guy named Mark Crilley. He draws manga and has a ton of tutorials. He describes how to do it in great detail. That'll help you a lot. I'm not trying to do any anime styles. |
Posted By: AngelOTG
Date Posted: 10 February 2010 at 6:41pm
| Sorry, didn't know you were above help from professionals. |
Posted By: Pumpkinbot
Date Posted: 10 February 2010 at 7:07pm
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Originally posted by AngelOTG I didn't say that, I just said I'm not doing manga. If you find someone that does more realistic drawing, then please share. Trying to learn realistic drawing from anime is like trying to learn the guitar from the piano.Sorry, didn't know you were above help from professionals. |
Posted By: AngelOTG
Date Posted: 10 February 2010 at 7:22pm
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T9PUDtVcWhY&feature=related - Not every manga http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGsPO6Fzzr0&feature=related - drawing is http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KmO06D4orb4&feature=related - chibi or "super-cute" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jnsu042Bg6g&feature=related - in style . Manga is just an exaggerated form of realism. If you can draw Manga, you're not far from Realism. If you can draw Realism, you're not far from Manga. |
Posted By: Pumpkinbot
Date Posted: 10 February 2010 at 7:26pm
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Originally posted by AngelOTG ...Alright, I might check it out.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T9PUDtVcWhY&feature=related - Not every manga http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGsPO6Fzzr0&feature=related - drawing is http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KmO06D4orb4&feature=related - chibi or "super-cute" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jnsu042Bg6g&feature=related - in style . Manga is just an exaggerated form of realism. If you can draw Manga, you're not far from Realism. If you can draw Realism, you're not far from Manga. Anyway, here's what I've got so far (just the skeleton). Resized it a lot. I think the pelvis needs to be bigger... EDIT: If it looks like the original, or a picture that says the image or video has been moved or deleted, try refreshing or deleting your cookies. It's using the same URL as the old pic. EDIT2: Newer image. EDIT3: NEWER newer image.  Though his head looks a bit too small...I followed the eight heads rule, though. D: He also looks a bit more muscular than what I imagined him to be... Also, those books are really helping, Dpixel! :D |
Posted By: dpixel
Date Posted: 11 February 2010 at 4:03am
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Anatomy isn't easy. Looking better though. You can try this site for references too: http://www.posemaniacs.com/ ------------- |
Posted By: Pumpkinbot
Date Posted: 11 February 2010 at 7:51am
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Originally posted by dpixel I know about Posemaniacs. ;)Anatomy isn't easy. Looking better though. You can try this site for references too: http://www.posemaniacs.com/ Anyway, what's wrong with my anatomy? I can use Posemaniacs to help make that part better. :P |
Posted By: dpixel
Date Posted: 11 February 2010 at 8:02am
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To be honest. I'm not sure anything is wrong with your anatomy. It's hard for me to tell from that image. Maybe the upper arm is a bit too long. I can't be sure though. ------------- |
Posted By: kenpokis
Date Posted: 11 February 2010 at 12:03pm
| I believe it is the head. It is too small compared to the rest of him, IMO. I also think his torso is too long. Not completely sure though. |
Posted By: Pumpkinbot
Date Posted: 11 February 2010 at 5:27pm
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Originally posted by kenpokis Eh, I don't think so. Second head is from chin to nipples, third head is from nipples to belly button, fourth is from belly button to crotch. I followed that. (Thanks to the books dpixel showed me. :P)I believe it is the head. It is too small compared to the rest of him, IMO. I also think his torso is too long. Not completely sure though. Originally posted by dpixel Well, I'm not
going to fully render his hands because he's going to have his hands
tucked into the pockets of a hoodie.To be honest. I'm not sure anything is wrong with your anatomy. It's hard for me to tell from that image. Maybe the upper arm is a bit too long. I can't be sure though. EDIT: Ist das gut?  |
Posted By: linx
Date Posted: 11 February 2010 at 7:38pm
| Maybe you should use a reference picture? HIs head does seem small, but maybe that's just me. |
Posted By: rustEdge
Date Posted: 11 February 2010 at 9:25pm
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Don't start with a stick figure, then trace outlines. Draw out the forms as solids. Don't do clean ups before the general feel of the form is right. Pure outlines won't express the bulk of the body, the striations of muscles, the shape of the skull, etc. Tweaking outlines will eventually force your sketch to wander into some weird forms. As for the anatomy of your sketch, there are two points I want to touch. First, the posture doesn't feel natural. The top half is straight, shoulders relaxed and a bit forward. It suggests a somewhat feeble or shy personality. The bottom half's weight is supported mainly by the left leg, and the bow of the right leg reminds me of cowboys... The second point is that the forms of the muscles are off. The lines of the neck muscles connecting to the shoulders and arms are too noodley. The definition of the muscles aren't there. This doesn't apply just to muscular people, mind you. With your hand curled up like that, there should be some bulge on the upper portion of the arm. Look for reference photos of heads taken from the side. You'll see that the neck is connected to the base of the skull, slightly to the back, and the neck is actually tilted forward. Here's a half-minute sketch. Take note that I don't use straight lines for the character, even for the base stick figure. Each section of the body is defined [head, neck, shoulders, pecs, abdomen, upper and forearms, hands, hip/ groin, legs, feet.] If I were to directly outline from scratch, It would be near impossible to ensure the correct form of the body.  Anime, Manga, Realistic, Comic, Cartoon, East, West, etc. Believe it or not, the base proportions for them ARE based off real anatomy. What makes them different from each other is how the original shape is altered to express a certain personality for the character. An 8-head superhero is just like what a 7-head John Doe would look if he carried an extra 200 pounds of muscle mass. ONLY START EXAGGERATING ONCE YOU LEARN THE FUNDAMENTALS. It is frustrating, but everyone who wants to improve has to go through this. |
Posted By: Pumpkinbot
Date Posted: 11 February 2010 at 9:32pm
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Originally posted by rustEdge Alright. What I got from that was "Don't start with the stick figure," "The posture is unnatural," "The neck connects to the back of the skull," and "All forms of art are based off of real anatomy (duh)." But just give it to me straight, Doc, what's wrong?Don't start with a stick figure, then trace outlines. Draw out the forms as solids. Don't do clean ups before the general feel of the form is right. Pure outlines won't express the bulk of the body, the striations of muscles, the shape of the skull, etc. Tweaking outlines will eventually force your sketch to wander into some weird forms. As for the anatomy of your sketch, there are two points I want to touch. First, the posture doesn't feel natural. The top half is straight, shoulders relaxed and a bit forward. It suggests a somewhat feeble or shy personality. The bottom half's weight is supported mainly by the left leg, and the bow of the right leg reminds me of cowboys... The second point is that the forms of the muscles are off. The lines of the neck muscles connecting to the shoulders and arms are too noodley. The definition of the muscles aren't there. This doesn't apply just to muscular people, mind you. With your hand curled up like that, there should be some bulge on the upper portion of the arm. Look for reference photos of heads taken from the side. You'll see that the neck is connected to the base of the skull, slightly to the back, and the neck is actually tilted forward. Here's a half-minute sketch. Take note that I don't use straight lines for the character, even for the base stick figure. Each section of the body is defined [head, neck, shoulders, pecs, abdomen, upper and forearms, hands, hip/ groin, legs, feet.] If I were to directly outline from scratch, It would be near impossible to ensure the correct form of the body. Anime, Manga, Realistic, Comic, Cartoon, East, West, etc. Believe it or not, the base proportions for them ARE based off real anatomy. What makes them different from each other is how the original shape is altered to express a certain personality for the character. An 8-head superhero is just like what a 7-head John Doe would look if he carried an extra 200 pounds of muscle mass. ONLY START EXAGGERATING ONCE YOU LEARN THE FUNDAMENTALS. It is frustrating, but everyone who wants to improve has to go through this. EDIT: I think my problem is, I'm not thinking 3-D. I draw what I see (or see with my mind's eye). What I see, however, is 2-D, not 3-D. How can I think with EDIT2: Here's what I got so far (needs hair, though).  Don't like it, though, 'cause he looks middle-aged. He's described as a "young man" so I need to take off about ten years on this head. Any help? |
Posted By: kenpokis
Date Posted: 12 February 2010 at 11:29am
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The facial features and eyes are out of proportion to the rest of the head. I think his cranium is too big also. Take a look at this. http://www.secondpicture.com/tutorials/3d/modeling_human_head_in_3ds_max.png - http://www.secondpicture.com/tutorials/3d/modeling_human_head_in_3ds_max.png |
Posted By: Pumpkinbot
Date Posted: 12 February 2010 at 7:03pm
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Originally posted by kenpokis (That kinda scares me...) Alright, thanks. :>The facial features and eyes are out of proportion to the rest of the head. I think his cranium is too big also. Take a look at this. http://www.secondpicture.com/tutorials/3d/modeling_human_head_in_3ds_max.png - http://www.secondpicture.com/tutorials/3d/modeling_human_head_in_3ds_max.png |
Posted By: kenpokis
Date Posted: 12 February 2010 at 7:04pm
| Yea probably not the best reference, just picked one that looked near the perspective of the head. |
Posted By: linx
Date Posted: 12 February 2010 at 7:09pm
| I *highly* suggest you use a reference picture when trying to draw realistic things. |
Posted By: Pumpkinbot
Date Posted: 12 February 2010 at 10:08pm
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Originally posted by linx The only problem with that is how specific poses are and how scarce good poses are. :/ I've been trying to look.I *highly* suggest you use a reference picture when trying to draw realistic things. Anyway, since I can't do it (this is my...third attempt? Fourth?), I give up. |
Posted By: NaCl
Date Posted: 13 February 2010 at 1:19am
| Wow you didn't succeed in 4 whole attempts!? Most people know exactly what they are doing the first time they try, second if they're a little slow. The hell is wrong with you |
Posted By: kenpokis
Date Posted: 13 February 2010 at 10:31am
| You'll never get any better at pixel art if you give up on it after a few try's. Take my thread for example,(not bragging) but my first attempt looked like crap, even up to my 10th try it didn't look very good. Then after more and more attempts it started to take shape. Practice is the key to good pixel art- just art in period. |
Posted By: Pumpkinbot
Date Posted: 13 February 2010 at 3:06pm
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Originally posted by kenpokis The main thing that frustrates me is going to my piece, making the face or something, thinking it's pretty good, and the first reply usually says, "Needs LOTS of work," or "Anatomy's way off," or something along those lines. Then I go back to see what they mean and I can't seem to find it. I understood what Iggybork said about the "drawing from what you remember, or what you think eyes/lips/noses should look like," after a few posts, but I still couldn't get it. When I finally fully understood, I made that other face, but it looks even worse than the original.You'll never get any better at pixel art if you give up on it after a few try's. Take my thread for example,(not bragging) but my first attempt looked like crap, even up to my 10th try it didn't look very good. Then after more and more attempts it started to take shape. Practice is the key to good pixel art- just art in period. Also, I feel like I haven't been progressing at all.On DeviantART, my favorite artist is Meago. Flawless pictures, really. But her scraps, the ones she deems crappy, are still freakin' awesome. When I see those, I automatically think to myself, "I'm never gonna get anywhere NEAR that good," because, as I said, I feel like I'm getting nowhere. One of my earlier pieces that I have on my Photobucket account is quite worse than what I can do now, but that feels like it's the only piece I've really learned from. :< EDIT: Decided to go back to the original and play with it a bit.  |
Posted By: rustEdge
Date Posted: 13 February 2010 at 5:57pm
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You're still young. Meago might have beautiful scraps in her gallery, so what? It's quite possible she's done thousands of terrible drawings before she registered on Deviantart. Some artists start drawing before they could even walk. I know of a few people around me who started when they were over 20, but picked up fairly quickly because they were willing to work their butts off to learn. Don't compare yourself to Meago. You're you, don't strive to be the shadow of another person. I'm sorry about the ineffective critiques. If we had the time, I'm guessing all of us would post exhaustive texts on theory and such, but that would mean every thread in the forum would have the exact same stuff. All the technical aspects on anatomy take time to understand. The subtle curves of the body, the way skin slides over muscle, how high heels affect the way a person walks, etc. I'm telling you now, there's no good tutorial for realistic anatomy for pixel art out there. But there are tons of anatomy references for artists. It shouldn't matter what pose is available out there. Just try and study whatever's available. After a while you'd find ways of translating those references into whichever pose you have in mind. If you need anatomy reference, I'd recommend http://ronlemen.blogspot.com/ - Ron Lemen . I've read though his stuff in ImagineFX, and his tutorials on anatomy are both awesome and easy to understand. I still have the magazines on my desk until now as reference. Okay, back to your work. Is there a specific style you want to emulate? (By style I meant A specific artist's style in a specific genre.) It might be easier if we work on breaking down that person's way of painting, so we can adapt it to your style. |
Posted By: Pumpkinbot
Date Posted: 13 February 2010 at 6:09pm
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Originally posted by rustEdge *opens link to Ron Lemen's work*Okay, back to your work. Is there a specific style you want to emulate? (By style I meant A specific artist's style in a specific genre.) It might be easier if we work on breaking down that person's way of painting, so we can adapt it to your style. A style? Hmm...Mebbeh http://topekachu.deviantart.com/ - Topekachu's non-anime style stuffs. |
Posted By: Manupix
Date Posted: 13 February 2010 at 6:16pm
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What people said. We all started from exactly the same point: 0. It takes practice to learn drawing, you can't substitute practice with some tutorials or advice, even the best there is. They can only vaguely point the way, at best. The most difficult thing to draw is the human body. So, huge congrats for trying, but you won't make awesome stuff on your 1st, or 2nd, or 20th try. No way. Fact of life. But each and every try is a step forward, even those that fail miserably. Now, there's only 2 things for you to do: - sketch from life, on paper. Go in the street and sketch people. Ask friends to pose for you. Draw yourself in the mirror. Do that a lot, everyday, don't try to make anything nice, it's your eye you're training. - before working on a serious piece, paper or pixels, get refs! Not one: lots! Sketch them, get used to them. Only when you feel you can do it without looking at them, is the time to start. How many times did I write this lately? Pfuuu. :D |
Posted By: Pumpkinbot
Date Posted: 13 February 2010 at 8:29pm
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Originally posted by Manupix Fine. But asking someone, "Hey, could you stand still for a few hours while I stare at you so I can draw you?" is kinda creepy. :P I'll see what I can do.What people said. We all started from exactly the same point: 0. It takes practice to learn drawing, you can't substitute practice with some tutorials or advice, even the best there is. They can only vaguely point the way, at best. The most difficult thing to draw is the human body. So, huge congrats for trying, but you won't make awesome stuff on your 1st, or 2nd, or 20th try. No way. Fact of life. But each and every try is a step forward, even those that fail miserably. Now, there's only 2 things for you to do: - sketch from life, on paper. Go in the street and sketch people. Ask friends to pose for you. Draw yourself in the mirror. Do that a lot, everyday, don't try to make anything nice, it's your eye you're training. - before working on a serious piece, paper or pixels, get refs! Not one: lots! Sketch them, get used to them. Only when you feel you can do it without looking at them, is the time to start. How many times did I write this lately? Pfuuu. :D |