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I´m overworked, my 9 hours job+3 frelance jobs+my own game project :P
I'm sacrificing even on weekends, but I hope with more organization I can work more and faster
sorry gecimen, this year I´m out of pixel joint :(
http://fc01.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2011/013/9/a/me_by_pitifloyter-d14u6bs.png
Victor can you send the original piece to me? I really dig the preview...
yes, this need modification, they said xD
How are you? sorry for my incomunication!
Actually (accidentaly) right now Im working on a piece where Im using 3d a bit to help me with composition and perspective. Mainly to test if it ly makes things faster for me.
1. so far I think it doesnt :)
2. imo its indeed absolutely legit to use ANY technique to aid you in cretion of (good) art. (and we are back at scan-edits right :))
3. Im using simple 3d dummy characters as aid in creation of pixel and 2d character animation for years. Especialy for madness like hi-qty iso styles.
It improves quality and saves time, which is VITAL for commercial work (and Im sure every commercial artist here know is) !
Other thing is if somebody rendered something from 3d and only used color reduction / PS filters to fake it as pixelart. That of course is stupid and noobish and imo has no place in gallery.
Thank you very much for your historical review. It was very rewarding. Now I know every people have his own opinion. My opinion is that for me if a piece is imposible to animate, is not pixel art, but for now I have some more doubts. It´s correct to use Flash/3d to help perspective? what do you think? thanks for your feedback, Riva. Great article ^^
Thinking about the whole cause .. (in separate forum tread since it is freaking long)
Thanks, Manupix. I admire your transparency when you show your work. From now on I will do the same, is the best way to represent the true Pixel Art, or at least expose it to debate. But, what can I do now with this piece while I fix it?
- The To-be-or-not-to-be-pixel-art topic:
-----------------------------------------------
pitifloyter.deviantart.com/gallery/
Thanks, Setzer and Jeremy. That's clear now.
So yeah, like most people here these recurrent hybrid pieces make me uneasy, because there's no way to draw an obvious line. The description of the tools would make me say no, but if the tools are used for really early stages and 90% of the effort is spent in hand cleaning and no pixel remains unturned, then it's difficult to send that away with color eductions. So it's a case by case decison which will always be unsatisfactory, and there's not much we can do about it except require all the more honesty and transparency as to the process.
Thank you very much for your information, and for the link. Now I have a better idea of what is Pixel Art.This piece definitely should not be accepted in Pixel Joint, I'll remake it according to the rules that now I know. Thanks Jeremy.
You've still failed to say exactly what tools you used in the process. Making that clear for everyone will let a decision be made.
@Manu: My knowledge of Index Painting is, on top of what Setz said, this post by Helm. Basically a greyscale pixel-painting with no regard to colour count etc. that can get reduced down to the palette size wanted.
I ask that if you're not going to contribute anything positive, you do not impede the reading of something serious :3
I am grateful for this discussion 
, I consider myself a rookie , from 3 years ago I´m learning pixel-art, and I was shocked when I saw many stranges things in this site which is PIXEL-ART, the use of photographs does not seem real pixel-art. The hybrids looks good in deviant-art; this site allowing all types of art. I have a doubt ; why some pieces are allowed and others no.
Having said that my vision of pixel-art is identical to yours so I applaud this bold experiment in the search for improved pixelartist real work, and defining the boundary of Pixel Art
sorry I don´t understand your comment , would you like to explain your opinion in more detail? thank you ^^
Aha it was bait!
Pixel Joint will never be perfect. Bottom line is we all have our own "pixel conscience" and we employ it when pixelling. I know what I like. That's what I stick to. I've never used pixel time-saver tools. All my pixels are handplaced. If a peice of pixel art isn't done all by hand or with cheat tools I'm less amused with it, but that doesn't mean I write it off as garbage either.
It's a principle-governed matter.
Thank you very much, Setzer, for the information and the comment, really 
. I did not know if anyone was going to be angry, but it seems that even I have not got a nailed cat at my door. wait, I just got in my window an arrow with a note ...
The color index is just a palette for the image, the image can only contain colors in it, and if changed, it updates the whole image: thus an indexed image. Extremely useful.
Pro motion has many, many tools, including automatic AA and dithering. Also plenty of painting modes like blend, smear, grey, tint, etc. Unlike in photoshop and the like, these brushes only use colors that are in the palette index. Its also got gradient features, creating a smooth ramp between color X and color Y on the index, and plenty of other dirty tools that are frowned upon, but can save plenty of time if used effectively.
VR: interesting experiment
Could you explain what the color index of promotion does?
If it's a tool that allows to change the palette colors in all the piece at once, I don't see a problem. I would actually love PS to do that!
If it's a a kind of brush that automatically AAs or dithers using the palette colors, that would be no for me.
So what should I do? maybe put a label like "Hybrid" or "Pure ".... As much as I think I can not find the solution. Please tell me your opinion. thanks
Manupix, (and anyone who wants it) I'd like that you give me your opinion of what really worries me. I mean, the color index of promotion, and other techniques that help in certain activities of Pixel Art, where is the line? I would love to introduce new techniques such as those used in my work, but all these pieces I Thank you very much for your point of view, I now understand much better the situation. I would not like to create problems, now I think that this is not the place to discuss, maybe I should open a topic in Pixelation. I hope I did not create trouble. thanks B.O.B. I was going to say something in that line, The BOB did it better than I could have. One thing though: I do not know how you go about making 'false' pixel art. I know color reduction, which is definitely on the wrong side of the line, there seems to be other techniques such as 'index painting' of which I have only vague ideas, and I'm probably not alone. So maybe someone could explain in detail how it's done. Maybe you could explain in detail how you did this piece, which I'm not sure I understand. Understanding this would be really helpful judging borderline pieces. Being a moderator here previously, I could honestly say I never liked pieces like this. Artistically, it's great. But for the type of pixel art that the site here leans towards(which ALWAYS is a cause for debate), this leans more toward the type we'd rather not recieve. Members in our community have grown up with these types of graphics and have seen submissions like this, as you have, Victor. However, growing together, I think it's safe to say that most of us prefer pixel art to be more tightly controlled, in terms of palette control, and how clean the forms come out(the latter is a bit vague, but you get the point.). I understand your frustration on some of the art that's allowed here, or has been allowed here in the past. For the most part, I agree. If it were left up to me, TONS of things would have been sent back. I also would've been labeled a pixel-purist, elitist, or "nazi" in the process as well. However, some of those older pieces are mainly there for nostalgia, and some users have moved on from using tools as a crutch in developing pieces in place of the "human touch"(if that makes sense.). Totally see your point, here, though. It was things like this that I really hated making a decision over allowing, or not allowing in the gallery, as no matter what choice we chose, we always come out the bad guy, for not taking someone else's side. I want to clarify that I do not defend this piece, I did this 7 years ago when I did not know what it meant or what was truly the Pixel Art, (although when I was playing video games all I saw is Pixel Part 3 But I do not retract what I said, and I will not delete it until the others are not eliminated or someone explain me the difference between what I've done and the rest. I hope your opinion does not matter how hard this is. Thanks again and sorry for the inconvenience. Part 2 - 4- For my Pixel Joint it is the house of a pure art, the Pixel Art, PJ is a site where the critique is hard but friendly and they are not left to spend traps or short-cuts. There are great examples like Fool,Mathias, Setzer,ILKke, tomic, Syosa,Jalonso, Skamocore, Turtlechan, etc... But there are people who insists that his hybrids are his own style. Thanks to B.O.B I learned that here one gives cover to multitude of styles and they all are respectable, and its true... But I think that we all have a pencil (pixel color) and a paper (pixel transparent) and we paint something (pixel by pixel) and the result (pixel art) takes our feeling that is translated in style. But what I do not admit is that someone takes a photo *** or water-colors, or acrilycs (automatic palettes) or brushes or stumps or blurs (automatic AA) and say that it is a different style, it is not a different style, they are different tools. And we all must have the same opportunities. ***I recommend the use of references like what they are; a reference. The best example of this is Manupix C4 Hewer-www.pixeljoint.com/pixelart/58603.htm-wip files.myfrogbag.com/qe1mq0/piqueur-c4-wip-manupix.gif - refs -files.myfrogbag.com/qe1mq0/piqueur%20ref%20manupix.jpg I apologize again because I thought this was the best way to state my opinion, but now I think maybe this is not the best way Part 1 - 1 - I sincerely apologize if I offended anyone, it was not my intention. 2 - I've uploaded over 64 colors to show the excess. I could have hung 32 or 16 but would not be noticed much. 3 - 64 colors are too much. But even so all the colors are different from each other, not like here -img11.imageshack.us/img11/6041/126colors.png- - So why some are valid and others not? depends on the accurate finish like here? www.pixeljoint.com/pixelart/50320.htmor img834.imageshack.us/img834/900/89794493.png- or or depend on wonder what sort of experiment this is supposed to be.. maybe whether or not members with reputation have no hassle in getting a redux into the gallery? AA seems to be pretty inconsistent all around, but especially so in the top left corner, it feels so neglected :( Great piece, even when i'm not a fan of such dark themes, the realization is fllawless. Succesful experiment! The whitish-bluish light on the cross is a bit disturbing. Edit: you wouldn't expertiment with forbidden tools, would you. Victor Rojo (Level 10 King Ghidorah) @ 1/14/2011 14:56 Manupix (Level 11 Godzilla) @ 1/14/2011 13:46
The B.O.B. (Level 11 Master Assassin) @ 1/14/2011 13:20 Victor Rojo (Level 10 King Ghidorah) @ 1/14/2011 12:05
) Oh and thanks to Happip that taught me, now I know what is the Pixel art Victor Rojo (Level 10 King Ghidorah) @ 1/14/2011 11:55 Victor Rojo (Level 10 King Ghidorah) @ 1/14/2011 11:54
Victor Rojo (Level 10 King Ghidorah) @ 1/14/2011 11:53
tomic (Level 11 Admiral) @ 1/14/2011 08:04 Setzer (Level 8 Cannibal) @ 1/14/2011 02:04
T-Mind (Level 7 Ichikyu) @ 1/13/2011 23:47 Manupix (Level 11 Godzilla) @ 1/13/2011 14:54
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Lol so much preteciousness in the comments.