Agony and Ecstasy

Agony and Ecstasy

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Pixel Art Details

Agony and Ecstasy



user
Title: Agony and Ecstasy
Pixel Artist: Adarias  (Level 11 Special Agent :: 28174 points)
Posted: 7/15/2014 18:16
Palette: 6 colors
Statistics:  57 comments    72 faves    0 avatars

Have you noticed that red is the color of both?

This one kinda took on a life of its own.  Dumb concept, fun process.  I decided before I began that I wasn't going to use a reference for anything, so there are some hilariously broken and/or improvised parts of the anatomy.  But you know, challenges are meant to be a little wonky.


Weekly Challenge: All in One CanvasWeekly Challenge: All in One Canvas
Top Pixel Art - July 2014 (#4)Top Pixel Art - July 2014 (#4)

Discussion

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user
Goodlyay (Level 6 SWAT) @ 8/12/2017 16:17

Thanks for the detailed response.

Admittedly my edit messed with the actual hue of the colors, which is something I wasn't really thinking about as much as the contrast.

I don't agree that even spacing between swatches has no inherent value. Especially in a piece when there is lots of AA, I think when one has inconsistent jumps in the palette it really sticks out and looks unpolished.

I agree it's important to not have the same contrast throughout the entire piece, as that will end up making nothing particularly pop as you said. But I think the way the contrast is laid out should be more up to the way you place pixel clusters, and not the palette's contrast ramp.

Another edit that, imo, "fixes" the problems I see with the colors in this piece without destroying the hues and overall contrast: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/ohg1pqxl8uk7zz3/a%26e2.png

Note how the palette's ramp contrast is now more consistent, but the way the colors are used still gives it the starker ink-look you wanted. I think this makes a big difference in how polished the piece looks.

However since I added a color it wouldn't work for this challenge, so consider it not a critique on this piece in particular but just an example.

EDIT: Also please don't apologize, I think overall it looks really great! Just wanted to understand why you colored it the way you did.


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Adarias (Level 11 Special Agent) @ 8/12/2017 14:55

Goodlay, regarding the palette, the short answer is that even spacing between swatches has no inherent value.

The long answer I felt no need at the time for any more smoothing between the darker 3 shades, which already accomplished the stark, ink-like look I was hoping for.  What I did need was to soften the surfaces of the figure, creating a more subtle space to complement that starkness.  The rose tone was very useful in this regard.

In your edit, the eye has nowhere to rest, nor anywhere to explore.  When everything "pops", nothing does, and the figure it reduced to a jumble of parts.  This is reinforced by the loss of the rose tone, without which much of her humanity is lost.  There are times where this might be desirable.  For me, this piece is not one of those.  It already provoked some strong responses outside of the intended context.  No need to dehumanize the figure further.

I am sorry if you find the result unpolished or unacceptable.  I won't pretend that this piece is the best it could have been -- challenge pieces rarely are.  That said, there were reasons, both in regard to technique and the content, that these colors were the ones that I chose, and any edits I would make would far more likely be to the texture and form than to the palette in which it was rendered.


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Goodlyay (Level 6 SWAT) @ 8/12/2017 03:06

I'm years late to the party on this one, but I'm very curious so I have to ask:

Why is the contrast between the colors in this ramp so terribly inconsistent? Most notably the transition from the second darkest color to the next lighter color is so huge that the next two colors seem pointlessly similar in comparison.

I understand this is from a weekly challenge that had a restrictive palette, but given the restrictions its still possible to create something more cohesive throughout: [gif edit comparison] I feel like the shading and details pop a lot better in the edit here.

I apologize if the palette didn't have time to be polished due to time constraints, but I've seen this inconsistent contrast in other (undoubtedly skilled) artist's pieces as well and wondered why they thought it looked acceptable.


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tiagocc0 (Level 1 Depressed) @ 10/27/2014 13:57

How is this picture from Adarias any different from neofotistou?

http://www.pixeljoint.com/pixelart/69465.htm

Both have women in a painful pose, the difference is that Adarias didn't put a smile.

What I mean is if you take quick glance without reading the description and title properly you could associate the similarities of both pieces.


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Volrak_Rutra (Level 6 SWAT) @ 10/23/2014 21:49

I sense fave envy in some of the comments.


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RAV (Level 1 Rookie) @ 8/16/2014 21:21

So it goes without saying, this work in question is just like any other thing of sexism, and PJ like any other place of civilization, to the given point? Does the paraphrase "You know, I don't think this is that cool." capture the tonality, cause and demand here well, that set it in motion? Were the clarifying explanations on the work an attack on a person? Were some points of one side any more off mark than some points of the other? Many people are not exactly happy about being nailed to the wall on how they "do and see things", as an assumption derived from their fiction. And many artists are not happy about a call to have their work denied or removed from the gallery. Well, I guess, you might feel that whenever a woman dares to speak up, we men on and off PJ become disagreeing douchebags and whatnot. It is some strange luck there are still women here that would think different from that assertion about the nature of this work and PJ, at least. PJ is for everyone, PJ appreciates and helps you, whoever you are, beyond any one case of debate.


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ellie-is (Level 8 Cannibal) @ 8/12/2014 20:47

Wow. I'm really disappointed in all the guys here.

Ever notice how, whenever a woman points out sexism in anything, even the most civilized of men will turn into defensive douchebags? Seriously, dudes. Stop and think about what you're doing. 

A woman says "You know, I don't think this is that cool. It's kind of wrong in a way and you should rethink the way you do and see things". And then everyone's response is to attack her by saying she is taking it too seriously, that it's wrong, that it's not such a big deal, that she is overreacting. Even going as far as finding examples of the same thing with men - "Oh no! Look! Reverse sexism! There is ONE thing that sexualizes men among MILLIONS of pictures sexualizing women!"

So yep. Sounds like a goddamn boy's club to me.


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KnobleKnives (Level 1 Intern) @ 7/27/2014 18:24

Totally and completely stunning. 

Could I humbly request some critiques on my works? I do a lot of  Minecraft skins and have always worked on creating crazy, PixelJoint-esque colors. Having your feedback on my colors would mean the world to me. My stuff

Thanks! 


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Pheno (Level 4 Button Man) @ 7/25/2014 11:55

People complaining about this would be totally justified if this piece were meant to show any other emotion, but the piece is meant to convey pain, discomfort. The torsion helps that quite a bit, I think.


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TropicalSnowcone (Level 5 Killer Klown) @ 7/21/2014 07:44

I like it and the color usage.


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MHMD (Level 1 Rookie) @ 7/20/2014 18:33

, perfect!


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snowk (Level 7 Mass Murderer) @ 7/20/2014 17:12

lovely clusters as always! The background is a little busy, I think.
 

in a comment you said: "typically my fine-arts work has been performance, and used my own body."

I'd love to see some of that if you're will to share links or anything!
 


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RAV (Level 1 Rookie) @ 7/19/2014 10:04

Unfortunately, voicing an opinion in such a manner is not quite so innocent, harmless and ignorable as is portrayed: it can ruin reputations and lives, much more directly than is assumed the other way around in the creativity of ambiguous art. So after getting connected to enjoying torture, sexual depravations and putting down the thumb on little girls, as a community full of nasty nerds, Adarias and others were cornered such that they had little choice than clearing themselves sufficiently with reason. A grown man is very much sensible to the social dangers for him in such situations; some people do not seem to mind what weapon they wield, or that its applied power is in proportion to the matter.

Also, I find this aggressive hyper-stimulation of awareness unsettling and counter-productive. It's not that we are clueless little boys without any idea how a real woman works, or that any little situational quirp is a full on description of our views, worth being worried about, corrected on or haunted for. The expectation that you have to be fully aware, take into account, and assume responsibility for everyone's problems, whenever you look or say something anywhere, and before you so much as draw a single silly line, is downright inhuman and very stiffling to creativity. Do we really want art to be such a vast minefield of taboos? PJ's policies are sufficient, this is no 4chan, and I have not noticed a larger preference for sexual content in total ignorance of art. How ever the world may work elsewhere, PJ is its own little world in a bubble, outside problems do not apply 1on1.


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Vagrant (Level 4 Shichikyu) @ 7/19/2014 04:55

Forget the boys club, and the offended, and the sexually deprived world from which such discomfort at nudity comes from, and the verbal defense against such a world and it's afflicted, and the need to 'be right', and of generalizing Pixeljoint by what an individual artist freely decides to post in his own gallery, and the need to waste time like this.

Rather apreciate this excellent piece. 


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RAV (Level 1 Rookie) @ 7/19/2014 02:24

Since PJ tries so hard not to be a boys club quite obviously, accusations about being a boys club without appreciation of its effort become a self-fulfilling prophecy, because it violates a sense of fairness in people and what can be reasonably expected, provoking a strong reaction of all sorts to vent this frustration. It happened because they do care. It is too convenient to make this artificial incident a measure for how much a boys club PJ really is.

Not being a boys club does not mean there cannot exist any silly boys stuff; and it does not mean everything else but boys stuff must always win some silly popularity contest. It means when you put up girls stuff, or whatever, you are not being rediculed and harassed but constructively adviced or given peace. Anything else has less to do with pixel art on PJ but the rest of the world. PJ is dedicated to education on the arts, and what PJ would have to do with the rest of the world is based more on personal believes than facts; true justice must be better than that.

But let us be reminded that no single occurance is a total definition of a cause. And even when we are quite irritated by an argumentation, we must respect nontheless that it represents a group that is desperate for a little support in this undeniably shitty world. That is the limit to our response on what's right. Hopefully that amounts to a mutual understanding that creates a balance of interests at least here, because without balance in ourselves there is no hope of solution ever.


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Adarias (Level 11 Special Agent) @ 7/18/2014 23:13

 Guys I think at least one side of this argument has been well-represented.  I appreciate that you all want to contribute but 12 against 1 is a pig-pile, not a discussion, and not everyone has been as calm or respectful as we would hope for.  If there are opinions which differ significantly from those already voiced, please contibute...otherwise please consider whether an echo is really useful.  Some of these comments I read and think, "wow, this really is just a boys' club."  At the end of the day, it's not about being right, it's about being respectful and open to discussion.

To all of those that are commenting on the anatomy or specific technical shortcomings, I have read and internatlized all of your comments.  They have been very interesting.  I will be sure to put some of them to work even when not drawing from reference.

To others, thank you for commenting, I am sorry that there are too many, and generally too lengthy comments to reply to individually.


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dpixel (Level 9 Vice President) @ 7/18/2014 16:29

51% ?  What?    I do this same thing stretching in the morning before I get out of bed.   This reminds of some paintings I've seen going for thousands.   The only thing wonky here is the angle of the right elbow.  Great job.  I always liked your art especially your colors.


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Skoby (Level 1 Rookie) @ 7/18/2014 03:11

I love the background and the style, but her stomach and face just don't work for me. I hate to say it but her facial expression reminds me of a creeper on mine craft. That being said I still love the piece.

As for the controversy, my mum walked past me looking at this and asked me why I don't do pieces more like this... 


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StevenM (Level 3 Private Eye) @ 7/17/2014 20:18

I'm honestly well over the "OH NO NIPPLES" part of my adolescence, so I'm focusing mostly on the colour clusters and anatomy. The highlight on her bicep makes it look as though the muscle is bent out of place, and the area around her left ankle (her left leg) seems suspect. On top of which her left leg's calf seems to have an unnatural straight line due to the purple and yellow pixels outlining it, and I think the right leg is fairly alright in its position but the posterior muscle sticks out too much at that angle. Having said that, it's really interesting how you can trick the viewer into seeing finger articulation through clusters of yellow and red, and I really like the anti-aliasing on the Kirby crackles and the crackles in general, the mixture of red, orange and dull purple.


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skittle (Level 9 Nidan) @ 7/17/2014 09:14

-


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NoeL (Level 1 Rookie) @ 7/17/2014 07:16

Love the piece, and the comment thread. XD Oh neo, you so cray cray.


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Dastal (Level 7 Assassin) @ 7/17/2014 03:30

Excellent shading with those colors.

Also, I love the way your background look so good with the character. 


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Meapers (Level 2 Dealer) @ 7/16/2014 19:52

I really like the clusters and pretty much everything else 

Also, I don't understand whats all the fuss about this piece, I've seen plenty of pieces that have nudity showing similar things like this (both breasts, and ass). I feel like there is nothing really wrong with the showing of both of these.


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Hapiel (Level 11 Admiral) @ 7/16/2014 18:27

Boobs and ass visible at the same time... Oh and it is a guy!

@Neo, I am a bit disappointed you rather discuss this issue in the comments here than for example in PM... But since you don't respond there I'll join you here:

"I'm lesbian, stop assuming I object to looking at sexy women."
who is assuming this? Also, that we both enjoy looking at sexy woman does not mean that we therefor have similar ideas of what sexy is. Among other things I see nudity, a young woman and ecstacy, things I find 'sexy'. To summarize the obvious: No, this does not make me horny/fantasize/think about male superiority/have higher expectations on women and their bodies. I do expect some of my female friends to be able to twist their body like this, but that is because they actually are contortionists!

"that makes 51% of the earth's population uncomfortable. "
Saying 'all woman should have my opinion and feeel uncomfortable when I do' is as bad as saying 'all women should be doing (....) or believing (....)'.

"http://thehawkeyeinitiative.com/"
Nice site! It is kinda funny and the boys look very stereotypical gay. Yes, it is okay to remind people that they are watching softporn and that comics do not resemble real life. This does not mean though that anything that does not resemble reality should be put to shame...

"Y'all think about what that means and what kind of pixeljoint gallery you want."
I have been around a long time and have seen almost every single artwork at the site here... To me it seems that this community always rates visual impact and technique over subject choise.

Neo, I don't know you or what you and your peers have been through, but I can imagine that especially as a lesbian you feel left out of society every now and then. Many girls deal with insecurity about their looks and behaviour, in part because of the incorrect stereotypes of our western society and culture. Also many girls have to deal with sexual harrasment primarily by males, and this is of course problematic.
But just because these issues are real does not mean that therefor anything a feminist says is true! This outburst is not directed to you personally but to feminists in general: I feel that many many feminists have adopted the belief that they (and other minorities that join them) are categorically right and that the rest of society is wrong. That others are to blame for all their problems and insecurities.

Please trust that my ideas don't come out of nowhere. I have gotten to know people from many different walks of life in very open and intimous ways during my many travels or while living together with people from all over the world. The only single time that I was really hurt, felt manipulated/brainwashed and ended up fleeing a city that I loved was because of a feminist, her ideals and her community. I spend a lot of time in feminist fora and discussions, open to change and as free as possible of assumptions.


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king_bobston (Level 10 Capo) @ 7/16/2014 16:55

I'm more bothered by the wonky anatomy than the pose itself. On the other hand, if all parts were where they belonged within human proportions, the pose wouldn't have the agony part anymore and would look like "woman realaxing in hell". The expression on her face is kind of empty and doesn't communicate either emotion. Kind of mask like. Was that intentional?

All that said, I really really like it because it's still better than what I could currently do and displays a super use of the colors and clusters. It's also quite trippy and I like that.

@neofotistou
I honestly don't like your piece at all and that has nothing to do with it's message except that from my viewpoint it failed to communicate it fast and on its own, I only got the meaning through reading the description. But the main part why I didn't like it is simply the style. And it's certainly not technically flawless. What's that even supposed to mean?

And what some find sexy differs from what another one finds sexy, even if they're attracted by the same gender. I for one find it offensive that you guilt me that I only like this work because of sexual attraction and dislike yours because of the message. I also find it troublesome that with this generalisation you furthermore condemn pictures with sexual nature. And no, to say pictures that contain sexual content but aren't about bdsm (which this piece isn't but you put it that way) are ok isn't good either from both points, artistically nor sexually. Or do you want to forbid those people to live their sexuality out?


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Dex (Level 11 CEO) @ 7/16/2014 15:44

neofotistou, I've got to say, it's incredibly arrogant of you to claim that your piece is technically flawless. Looking it at, that's just not true, unfortunately-- and I dare you to find a single piece on pixeljoint that is 'technically' flawless. Everything can be improved in some way or another; nothing is perfect. That sort of stance on your own artwork makes me want to ignore the former part of your argument as well. However, it's clearly obvious that Adarias' intent with this piece was to show both the agony and the ecstasy of this woman, as stated in the title. It's an art form-- as simple as that. Adarias didn't create this piece for the simple purpose of using sexual appeal in order to win this challenge or get favorites, and that notion is absurd. The artistic intent is clear, as he has repeatedly stated.

As for the piece, Adarias-- lovely. I The palette usage is great and the form is fantastically pixeled. The piece certainly gives off the intended vibe the piece was supposed to give off, and overall it's really well executed! Awesome stuff. 


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ParkerBabyDiaperCompany (Level 4 Team Leader) @ 7/16/2014 14:22

Technically flawless. Right. Okay.


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Siikikala (Level 3 Sergeant) @ 7/16/2014 12:50

You're making a excuses for people not liking your piece. Even the notion of claiming it being technically flawless gives a very arrogant vibe about you. Maybe you should come in agreement how maybe the piece itself isn't the best you could produce, and the style might not cut it for many.


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Adarias (Level 11 Special Agent) @ 7/16/2014 12:32

I don't know about contortions, but I've had Satan's deformed flesh and hairy manmeat in my gallery for 8 years and nobody ever said anything about that except for one commenter who called it "sexy."

As far as this piece goes, let me restate and expand : the piece features a highly sexualized and physically contorted female figure.  It is intended to be equally and simultaneously arousing and repulsive, and to create discomfort for the typical viewer.  This extends in an abstract capacity into the background, which is restless, unbalanced, and unfamiliar.  Yes, most men are made unomfortable by the sight of pain, and no, people who fetishize pain without revulsion are not exclusively nor even predominantly male.

As far as the gender of the subject is concerned, typically my fine-arts work has been performance, and used my own body.  The gender of this figure was undecided until about a third of the way through, when Everlong by the foo fighters came on and tipped the balance towards female.  At another point there was a sketch of a second, darker and more masculine figure intertwined with her, but I didn't want people to think that one was ecstasy and the other agony (since it's important that they are represented in the same figure), nor did I want to send any red herrings into the land of race or (literal) rape discourse.

I feel as though the title, "Agony and Ecstasy," makes this all very clear, and would have served as the warning you wanted.  I will not rename it "torture", however, because there is only one figure, and so it would change the encouraged role of the viewer from witness to participant, and that's heavier than intended.

Anecdotally, this was done with my fiancee over my shoulder commenting the entire time.  She thought it was "badass", appreciated the concept, and helped with the anatomy (She's a dancer and yoga instructor).  She actually has no problem assuming difficult positions (she spends half the day working on her laptop in baddha konasana because it's comfy for her) but she's aware that that is "not normal."  She was strongly against the above-mentioned thought of including a second figure, because she felt that if the woman in the image was going to experience either sensation, she should do so according to her own agency, rather than being acted upon.  I double-checked with her just now and to her, the image represents a woman experiencing physical extremes within the context of her own body, and that it is in no way submissive.  Her opinion is only one of many, but I don't think you should be speaking for all women in this debate.

As far as your piece goes, it's not getting many votes because A - it's not in a weekly challenge and B - it's in the line-and-color style that neither the cluster fanatics nor the chiaroscuro kids typically get behind.  It also has an unnecessarily-aggressive description.  I personally didn't fave it when I first saw it because, though I agree with the message, I was irritated with the tone, and more importantly the first thing I noticed was the girl with her skirt falling down and her underwear showing.  What might feel innocent or even empowering to you is a distinctly uncomfortable moment for many men, who can't so much as walk their dog past a playground without risk of getting put on a list.

Anyway, if you want to discuss technique, we can.  If you want to discuss concept, we can.  If you want to discuss gender theory, we can.  But if you insist on painting with a very broad brush from a very narrow point of view, then we're not really having a discussion, you're just having a rant in slow moton, and there are better places than this thread to set up your soapbox.


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Boxcar (Level 4 Deputy) @ 7/16/2014 11:45

This is a great piece, amazing use of colors. Has my vote for sure.

@neo He explained to you the intention with this piece and you are being highly disrespectful to his work by reducing his talent to "faves for boobs". 


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neofotistou (Level 5 Captain) @ 7/16/2014 11:36

showing both tits and ass on the same body is painful and yes, that makes 51% of the earth's population uncomfortable. Please stop all the private messages telljng me I'm ruining sexy for you. If you enjoy seeing unrealistically contorted women, call it torture so I can refrain from looking at it.

I uderstand our culture is full of this "sexy" pose and it's nof entirely your fault for being desensitized, but please understand, it's somerhing that ought to change. And for the hundredth time, I'm lesbian, stop assuming I object to looking at sexy women.

This is a site that highlights the huge proportions of the problem in mainstream comics- not so different to pixeljoint.

http://thehawkeyeinitiative.com/

And by the way, Adarias, my latest pjece is technically flawless and still won't get 24 faves and good ratings. Wanna know why? Because it's a piece about female geeks like me reclaiming geek space, notanother naked woman in a submissive and bone-breaking pose. Y'all think about what that means and what kind of pixeljoint gallery you want.


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neofotistou (Level 5 Captain) @ 7/16/2014 11:22

jalonso> showing both nipples AND both ass cheeks? are you kidding me? Why are yoy supporting this, you big boys club?


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jalonso (Level 11 Godfather) @ 7/16/2014 10:46

The PJ gallery is full of painfully unrealistic contorted males and that is never brought up.
 


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Hapiel (Level 11 Admiral) @ 7/16/2014 09:30

Great color use, and the background texture really sets the mood!

The girls left foot seems twisted out way too much, this is not possible in a healthy body... Everything else superb!


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Pheno (Level 4 Button Man) @ 7/16/2014 08:34

This challenge is yours to lose.


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Adarias (Level 11 Special Agent) @ 7/16/2014 08:04

@neofotistou, most of the comments here that aren't entirely vague are about the technique or the concept.  The body is intentionally contorted, and the reason for doing so is pretty clear.  You've chosen to ignore the expressed concept in order to reduce this to a purely T+A piece, and I'm not sure why.

As far as the votes, I'm not naive -- there's a small subset of the pixeljoint population that clicks anything tagged NSFW.  But the majority of favorites happen within the first 24 hours and, not to sound arrogant, 18 is pretty slow for a full-sized canvas in my gallery.  Since half of those people have also commented, I just don't get the impression that T+A is the reason.  As has been mentioned, the grotesque, discomforting aspects of the peice are obvious at a glance, and I assume they are not being lost on most viewers, whether they click 'fave' or not.


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CraftyPixeI (Level 1 Intern) @ 7/16/2014 08:02

- I like it. The colors are very good. -


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neofotistou (Level 5 Captain) @ 7/16/2014 06:46

so 18 favorites in one day are for physical pain and psychological discomfort of a female body?


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Adarias (Level 11 Special Agent) @ 7/16/2014 06:41
@Eggy and and Emperor_Pixel : I've had better pieces than this get beaten.  but it's really not winning that matters - it's completing the challenge (not an easy task for anyone - i have more unfinished weeklies than submitted ones), and it's about being part of the community.

@neofotistou : read the title.  "sexy" is not the goal here, except as mixed with equal parts (physical) pain and (psychological) discomfort, which I think this piece achieves, despite some flaws.


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Marina (Level 9 Necrophiliac) @ 7/16/2014 04:41

My favorite so far


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Photocopier (Level 11 Godfather) @ 7/16/2014 04:03

Well technically, some women are contortionists. 


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CELS (Level 7 Sheriff) @ 7/16/2014 04:00

If challenges are meant to be a little wonky, I think you failed miserably :D

Great job.


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neofotistou (Level 5 Captain) @ 7/16/2014 04:00

when boobs and ass show at the same time, I just feel pain in my spine. Adarias, women are not contortionists and this is not sexy :(


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Siikikala (Level 3 Sergeant) @ 7/16/2014 03:30

I know there's tits and all, but those splashy edges are so neat makes this piece for me. overall great, i feel like this is the winner piece right here!


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felchqueen (Level 6 SWAT) @ 7/16/2014 02:24

Very good, my vote is assured :)


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Mathias (Level 5 Rokkyu) @ 7/16/2014 01:28
Nice rendering.

Oh good good, so I'm not the only one that likes to ignore the formalities of the drawing process in order to make it more relaxing and fun. Reference searching - SUCH A CHORE


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Satsume (Level 10 Capo) @ 7/16/2014 01:03

wow Adarias very artistic, but her face.. xD anyway great work ^^


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Eggy (Level 4 Deputy) @ 7/15/2014 23:15

Nice work, I love it  I think I'm kinda starting to grow jealous of all the amazing entries that come into the weekly challenges though >3 Kinda makes me feel like I'm not good enough/I can't do it since others always seem to do better despite my effort... but that's the point of weekly challenges, right?  


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|||| (Level 8 Marshal) @ 7/15/2014 22:34

sexy...

psychedelic.


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RAV (Level 1 Rookie) @ 7/15/2014 21:56




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