Pixel Joint Forum: Help with Wip

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Zhou
Seaman
Seaman

Joined: 15 January 2007
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Posts: 3

Topic: Help with Wip
Posted: 18 January 2007 at 1:29pm

No idea on how to do the grass really, and not completely satisfied with mountains and sunset. Help please?

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Monkey 'o Doom
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Joined: 24 September 2005
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Posts: 2994

Posted: 18 January 2007 at 1:54pm

I suggest ditching the black outlines on everything. They make everything look cut-out and kill the piece's smoothness. The rocks are very round and light and are showing a perfectly white lightsource. As the piece is sunset and the flames as well are orangish, the highlights and general lighting there should reflact that orange lightsource as well.

You have very bright colors in the fire. I think you could use to look at reference pics of fire that show how it comes from burning material (wood is the most common one) and how the tongues are formed.

The castle looks very out of place for several reasons. First of all, it's in plack and white. I suggest at least giving it a solid fill of a color around what you want it to be so you can assess its affect on the piece better. Secondly, it's parallel to the bottom edge of the picture. It would look much more natural if it was at an angle perpendicular to the person's line of sight and showed some perspective. The village behind it could use some perspective as well.

The person looks anatomically incorrect and he's basically gradient-shaded. That isn't how light would really reflect off clothes or skin of a real person, and he doesn't show any highlights from the sun. The ones he does have, like the rocks', could use to be 'orangified'.

The grass the person's standing on is very saturated and lacks real texture; right now it looks more like a spraycan-grass than anything. Decrease the saturation and portray it as an intermittent grass with patches of grass on a surface of dirt to add interest.

What's up with that lake? Blood (the most commonly portrayed red liquid) doesn't look nearly so red and water isn't that blue either. Cut the saturation and make the red have a reason. You might be tempted to tell me the reason for blood being there, but showing it would improve the art's logistics a lot more. A possibility would be to have soldiers and corpses out there to signify that a huge battle took place.

One question: do you play runescape?

RPG is numberwang.

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Ensellitis
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Joined: 19 June 2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 10099

Posted: 18 January 2007 at 1:56pm

osnap, i was just getting ready to post almost every issue that mod brought up... good work monkey man

and yes, mod, he does play runescape, he submitted a bunch of runescape stuff

ಠ_ಠ
There's a pubic hair on my keyboard. What the f**k?? I "mow the lawn" so it's not mine. Gross.

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Zhou
Seaman
Seaman

Joined: 15 January 2007
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3

Posted: 18 January 2007 at 2:15pm

Actually I don't play Runescape anymore. I may still do a few pixels for Runescape, but I don't really play it at all.

Anyway, could you show me what you're talking about? I really have no idea how to "orangify" my mountains and rocks. I know that the grass is bad, that's why I asked for a few tips on it.

I know you're trying to help, but I don't need to know as much of what's bad as much as I need to know how to improve.

I realize that fire comes from burning material (Duh) but I tried the wood and it looked ugly. I don't mind the fire not looking realistic.

I have no idea what saturation means. The castle is white because I haven't colored it yet.

I don't understand how my guy is anatomically incorrect nor do I know how to fix it.

All the stuff on the ground isn't nearly complete, it's just an outline of what's to come. I realize that the blood is fake looking but I'm not really worried or working on that right now.

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Ensellitis
Commander

Joined: 19 June 2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 10099

Posted: 18 January 2007 at 4:15pm

http://www.dictionary.com and learn what saturation is.

anatomy is the body. anatomically incorrect means the body is wrong. look up some references, google is good for that.

and this i would never accept into the gallery. for one, it is obvious that most of the shading isnt done by hand, looks like you took the spraycan and tried to shade that way. if not, then you desperatly need to google for some pixel art dithering tutorials.

ಠ_ಠ
There's a pubic hair on my keyboard. What the f**k?? I "mow the lawn" so it's not mine. Gross.

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Monkey 'o Doom
Commander

Joined: 24 September 2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2994

Posted: 18 January 2007 at 4:26pm

I fixed several things, including most of the black outlines on the hills (which are the best part but look suspiciously spraycanned), the character(just made a stickfigure for now, you can do the real work), moved the castle and showed how meant to sketch it in, sketched in a fire with logs, fixed one of your rocks ('orangified'), gave the lake a reflection and shore instead of a bloodpool, and made the top of the mountain dirt (you can add grass tufts.)

Saturation is how not grey a color is. In the image above, the colors towards the bottom are grey and those towards the top are completely saturated (not grey). You should try to limit yourself to things not at the ends of the continuum. Ignore the luminosity slider on the right for now.

RPG is numberwang.

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Jace
Seaman
Seaman

Joined: 29 July 2006
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 16

Posted: 18 January 2007 at 5:35pm

Originally posted by Zhou

No idea on how to do the grass really, and not completely satisfied with mountains and sunset. Help please?

The shading on the mountains is good, but work on the lineart of the mountain itself. And black outlines against another light sprite usually never looks good, so make the outline a greenish color. The guy standing on the mountain type thing looks really stiff, and out of place.

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Zhou
Seaman
Seaman

Joined: 15 January 2007
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3

Posted: 18 January 2007 at 5:53pm

I know what anatomy is. I'm asking why it looks wrong, not what anatomy is.

I admit, some parts are spray canned. It is because I WANTED that texture that I spray canned it. I know how to dither (Sun). At first I did dither the hills, but I didn't like it because it looked like a gradient. I wanted random pixels in the line of the transition of colors. Why would I want to do all of that by hand instead of use a convenient tool in Paint?

I don't really mind if it's not accepted into the gallery. I didn't start this pixel for the gallery. I might do some others that are specifically for the gallery, though.

Thanks for the help, but I prefer my fire that way. How do you choose and place your colors so well?

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Monkey 'o Doom
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Joined: 24 September 2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2994

Posted: 18 January 2007 at 6:55pm

Practice and use Ctrl+F if you're using paint. If not open a preview window and look at it a lot. Choosing colors is a matter of thinking about differences between hue, saturation, and luminosity values (shown in the diagram I posted) between colors in a ramp. A ramp is a set of colors that are used for one color of object; the greens you put together between the man and the castle are an example of a ramp. So are all the colors you used for the sunset. The way you changed the hues gradually from red to yellow is called hue shifting, a technique that can be used on other objects to show lightsources and add interest. In most cases this is better if it's a small thing, though, so don't overdo it.

You may like the spraycan texture, but you'll find that doing it all yourself gives you more control and usually makes you end up finding out a method that emulates the texture of grass. You also have a lot of unneccessary colors in the hills; you wouldn't have needed those if you'd placed every pixel by hand.

The guy looks wrong because he lacks joints and muscles. His legs just flow out of his torso, showing no thigh muscle, etc. Even if he's not a bodybuilder the muscles are there, they just may be more subtle. He has no knees and his elbows aren't visible. I suggest adding slight bends to make the standing position more natural or choosing a pose that forces them to be bent. His back looks curved like a cylinder due to the gradient shading there. Show that he has a mostly flat side and a mostly flat back, and show how his clothes hang off his body where the shirt ends and where the pants meet the shoes.

Good luck and keep pixelling!

RPG is numberwang.

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WIP (Work In Progress)
Pixel Joint Forum : Pixel Art : WIP (Work In Progress)

Author	Message
Zhou Seaman Joined: 15 January 2007 Online Status: Offline Posts: 3	Topic: Help with Wip Posted: 18 January 2007 at 1:29pm
	No idea on how to do the grass really, and not completely satisfied with mountains and sunset. Help please?
	IP Logged

Monkey 'o Doom Commander Joined: 24 September 2005 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2994	Posted: 18 January 2007 at 1:54pm
	I suggest ditching the black outlines on everything. They make everything look cut-out and kill the piece's smoothness. The rocks are very round and light and are showing a perfectly white lightsource. As the piece is sunset and the flames as well are orangish, the highlights and general lighting there should reflact that orange lightsource as well. You have very bright colors in the fire. I think you could use to look at reference pics of fire that show how it comes from burning material (wood is the most common one) and how the tongues are formed. The castle looks very out of place for several reasons. First of all, it's in plack and white. I suggest at least giving it a solid fill of a color around what you want it to be so you can assess its affect on the piece better. Secondly, it's parallel to the bottom edge of the picture. It would look much more natural if it was at an angle perpendicular to the person's line of sight and showed some perspective. The village behind it could use some perspective as well. The person looks anatomically incorrect and he's basically gradient-shaded. That isn't how light would really reflect off clothes or skin of a real person, and he doesn't show any highlights from the sun. The ones he does have, like the rocks', could use to be 'orangified'. The grass the person's standing on is very saturated and lacks real texture; right now it looks more like a spraycan-grass than anything. Decrease the saturation and portray it as an intermittent grass with patches of grass on a surface of dirt to add interest. What's up with that lake? Blood (the most commonly portrayed red liquid) doesn't look nearly so red and water isn't that blue either. Cut the saturation and make the red have a reason. You might be tempted to tell me the reason for blood being there, but showing it would improve the art's logistics a lot more. A possibility would be to have soldiers and corpses out there to signify that a huge battle took place. One question: do you play runescape?
	RPG is numberwang.
	IP Logged

Ensellitis Commander Joined: 19 June 2005 Online Status: Offline Posts: 10099	Posted: 18 January 2007 at 1:56pm
	osnap, i was just getting ready to post almost every issue that mod brought up... good work monkey man and yes, mod, he does play runescape, he submitted a bunch of runescape stuff
	ಠ_ಠ There's a pubic hair on my keyboard. What the f**k?? I "mow the lawn" so it's not mine. Gross.
	IP Logged

Zhou Seaman Joined: 15 January 2007 Online Status: Offline Posts: 3	Posted: 18 January 2007 at 2:15pm
	Actually I don't play Runescape anymore. I may still do a few pixels for Runescape, but I don't really play it at all. Anyway, could you show me what you're talking about? I really have no idea how to "orangify" my mountains and rocks. I know that the grass is bad, that's why I asked for a few tips on it. I know you're trying to help, but I don't need to know as much of what's bad as much as I need to know how to improve. I realize that fire comes from burning material (Duh) but I tried the wood and it looked ugly. I don't mind the fire not looking realistic. I have no idea what saturation means. The castle is white because I haven't colored it yet. I don't understand how my guy is anatomically incorrect nor do I know how to fix it. All the stuff on the ground isn't nearly complete, it's just an outline of what's to come. I realize that the blood is fake looking but I'm not really worried or working on that right now.
	IP Logged

Ensellitis Commander Joined: 19 June 2005 Online Status: Offline Posts: 10099	Posted: 18 January 2007 at 4:15pm
	http://www.dictionary.com and learn what saturation is. anatomy is the body. anatomically incorrect means the body is wrong. look up some references, google is good for that. and this i would never accept into the gallery. for one, it is obvious that most of the shading isnt done by hand, looks like you took the spraycan and tried to shade that way. if not, then you desperatly need to google for some pixel art dithering tutorials.
	ಠ_ಠ There's a pubic hair on my keyboard. What the f**k?? I "mow the lawn" so it's not mine. Gross.
	IP Logged

Monkey 'o Doom Commander Joined: 24 September 2005 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2994	Posted: 18 January 2007 at 4:26pm
	I fixed several things, including most of the black outlines on the hills (which are the best part but look suspiciously spraycanned), the character(just made a stickfigure for now, you can do the real work), moved the castle and showed how meant to sketch it in, sketched in a fire with logs, fixed one of your rocks ('orangified'), gave the lake a reflection and shore instead of a bloodpool, and made the top of the mountain dirt (you can add grass tufts.) Saturation is how not grey a color is. In the image above, the colors towards the bottom are grey and those towards the top are completely saturated (not grey). You should try to limit yourself to things not at the ends of the continuum. Ignore the luminosity slider on the right for now.
	RPG is numberwang.
	IP Logged

Jace Seaman Joined: 29 July 2006 Online Status: Offline Posts: 16	Posted: 18 January 2007 at 5:35pm
	*Originally posted by Zhou* No idea on how to do the grass really, and not completely satisfied with mountains and sunset. Help please? The shading on the mountains is good, but work on the lineart of the mountain itself. And black outlines against another light sprite usually never looks good, so make the outline a greenish color. The guy standing on the mountain type thing looks really stiff, and out of place.
	IP Logged

Zhou Seaman Joined: 15 January 2007 Online Status: Offline Posts: 3	Posted: 18 January 2007 at 5:53pm
	I know what anatomy is. I'm asking why it looks wrong, not what anatomy is. I admit, some parts are spray canned. It is because I WANTED that texture that I spray canned it. I know how to dither (Sun). At first I did dither the hills, but I didn't like it because it looked like a gradient. I wanted random pixels in the line of the transition of colors. Why would I want to do all of that by hand instead of use a convenient tool in Paint? I don't really mind if it's not accepted into the gallery. I didn't start this pixel for the gallery. I might do some others that are specifically for the gallery, though. Thanks for the help, but I prefer my fire that way. How do you choose and place your colors so well?
	IP Logged

Monkey 'o Doom Commander Joined: 24 September 2005 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2994	Posted: 18 January 2007 at 6:55pm
	Practice and use Ctrl+F if you're using paint. If not open a preview window and look at it a lot. Choosing colors is a matter of thinking about differences between hue, saturation, and luminosity values (shown in the diagram I posted) between colors in a ramp. A ramp is a set of colors that are used for one color of object; the greens you put together between the man and the castle are an example of a ramp. So are all the colors you used for the sunset. The way you changed the hues gradually from red to yellow is called hue shifting, a technique that can be used on other objects to show lightsources and add interest. In most cases this is better if it's a small thing, though, so don't overdo it. You may like the spraycan texture, but you'll find that doing it all yourself gives you more control and usually makes you end up finding out a method that emulates the texture of grass. You also have a lot of unneccessary colors in the hills; you wouldn't have needed those if you'd placed every pixel by hand. The guy looks wrong because he lacks joints and muscles. His legs just flow out of his torso, showing no thigh muscle, etc. Even if he's not a bodybuilder the muscles are there, they just may be more subtle. He has no knees and his elbows aren't visible. I suggest adding slight bends to make the standing position more natural or choosing a pose that forces them to be bent. His back looks curved like a cylinder due to the gradient shading there. Show that he has a mostly flat side and a mostly flat back, and show how his clothes hang off his body where the shirt ends and where the pants meet the shoes. Good luck and keep pixelling!
	RPG is numberwang.
	IP Logged