@ BW: your remix of 37255 into 37291 made me think that maybe it could be an icy level music - I think all it needs is a suitably haunting flute for the lead-in at the beginning (not sure if I like the string instrument or the new one better, yet). But use it sparingly, and see if there's one that's not too sharp (my ears are a bit sensitive to high pitches).

For the same reason, I have a bad time with high hats. I love your drums and how they come into the song, but do you mind putting the high hats back as they were in the first version, where they were more subtle? (I'll compare this to the use of speculars in art: a tiny spot is better looking than a swath filling the entire lit part of a surface -- less shine actually makes things look shinier, strangely.)

For your 37290 version of 37269, I can't really judge it very well, because the instrument at the beginning (a bell, I think) has been changed, and is sharper and not as pretty as the first version. I do like the sound of the flute instrument playing behind it, but it isn't quite as delicate and effective as the way you did the piano in the first one. The new one's fourth instrument (some kind of horn?), that comes in to accompany the third instrument definitely has a nice sound to it, though.

I'd still like to hear a version of 37269 with just a change to a viola. And as for making them sound 8-bit, I dig the square and saw (takes me back to my Commodore-128 days!) but until we get some leads on better instruments (see the next paragraph) I think it's just fine to keep using the coolest or prettiest MIDI instruments you can find. You managed to make something that I'd consider finished for the beginning of 37269, for example -- I'm impressed!

I don't know how hard it is for you to upload to MIDIShrine, or how much space you get, but if you could be sure and only change one thing at a time, it'll make it much easier for me to understand the change -- thanks! As for MODs, I'm pretty sure that trackers can import MIDIs, so you shouldn't have to worry too much about that. But if you do have the time and inclination to check MODs out, I'd love to hear what you think. Maybe there is a music forum that works like the PJ forum, where people can get advice (such as what the best tracker is, or where to get good sound fonts, etc.).

Wind Waker sounds like a great place for music inspiration -- by all means, I recommend it heartily.

And what is your experience level with GML, by the way? Can you describe, for example, how you would solve the problem of smoothly moving the camera from one game character to another? (I expect you may need [code] tags, and fake resource names for this.)

And, yes, I strongly suspect you do have a long and fruitful career in the gaming industry ahead of you!

@ onek & inphy: Hello, and thank you so much for the info and advice! I'm very grateful for anything you can tell us about these things. I don't know if this will sound blasphemous, but I'm not super-fond of chip tunes, just because they're 8-bit (some songs use Gameboy sounds just for the sake of it, without actually having very attractive instruments -- though I do like the 'telephone' sound a lot more than some of my friends, so...). I guess I'm just more used to the 16-bit era (like the Mega Drive/Genesis), but one way or another, all I desire is that it sounds like video-game music and that the instruments are pleasant -- whether 8-bit or not. So I'm definitely looking forward to anything you want to show us, onek, and thanks!

@ Robinhood: the second song on Noteflight needs a sign-in, so it won't play :(
The first one, though has a nice melody, but up until the 40-second point sounds a bit like a question being asked too many times without an answer -- does that make sense? Also, does anybody else think that the music for the first world needs to have somewhat of an ethnic, African music sound? Or am I just thinking that because of the savannah-like setting? I think this may be a cool way of getting some energy and happiness but also some weight for it.

So what's everybody think?

MIDI is on a different level and doesn't concern itself with specific effects such as LFO. It's pretty much just message and timing data, and it's up to the synth what to make of it.

For example, "play note A on patch 123" and "set controller 13 value to 14". What "patch 123" means is up to the synth. It could be a piano (GM standard does define specific values, but anyway), or machine gun sfx. Likewise "controller 13" and "value 14" could mean "set LFO frequency to 14 Hz" or "pitch bend by 14 cents". Granted, common synths might not include a LFO effect.

Depending on the sequencer, you could use virtual instruments, which are basically software synths/samplers/whatnot (including analog synths with all the crazy knobs and dials). You could have a different instrument on every channel, and usually these virtual instruments implement all kinds of useful controllers.

For example, an analog synth would take MIDI data in and output glorious waveforms with whatever oscillation, and "controller 13" might very well be a LFO controller. In the virtual instrument (sampler) I use, "controller 13" would mean a lot of things depending on the instrument loaded - on guitars, it would be "finger noise intensity". These virtual instruments are not "MIDI" and are not carried in MIDI files, but they're controlled by MIDI, just like if you'd wire a hardware sampler to a MIDI keyboard.

So yeah; MIDI itself doesn't do anything really, but it makes everyone else do anything. :)

The reason MIDI songs usually sound static is because the composer has omitted/forgotten to pay attention to dynamics (notes play at a constant velocity). I uploaded a small example of what velocity and patch changes can do to 37272. In the beginning, I added the original the way I hear it through the OS MIDI synth. After that, the same with some added dynamics, virtual instruments and audio effects.

1.5 MB MP3: http://www.megaupload.com/?d=MOH4X6LQ

edit @ Ninja Crow:

What goes for "best tracker", there isn't one. Pick the one that you feel comfortable using. Module formats are "standard" and a module will sound pretty much the same from tracker to tracker. There are a few exceptions, such as OpenMPT allowing non-standard MOD format notes and effects sounding slightly different, but OpenMPT has an approachable user interface. MilkyTracker may be more difficult to get started with, but it's much more "standard compliant".

These are, however, things you won't notice that easily and in the end won't even matter because you're using another piece of software to play it back ingame anyway.

Regarding good soundfonts, do note that if they make things sound better for you, they are not carried in the MIDI file (nor the fact that they were used) and will not improve playback on any other synths unless they support soundfonts and the user explicitly chooses to load a specific one. They're pretty much usable only for rendering into WAV/MP3/OGG, and then you're dealing with several megabytes of excess again.


Edited by inphy - 03 September 2010 at 8:28am

Sorry, I didn't mean to confuse. Don't worry about virtual instruments, they're mostly commercial territory and cost megabucks, but if you want information at a later date look up VST tutorials, FAQs and whatnot.

I wrote a short introduction to trackers, hopefully this clears up some issues. :)

--

Up until now with MIDI, you've had channels with a single instrument, like piano is channel 1. You could do, for example, 3 note chords by just playing 3 notes simultaneously on that channels.

With trackers, however, channels work differently. Each channel can play only one note at a time, so doing a 3 note chord would mean playing 1 note on three channels. Channels are not limited to single instrument either, and any channel can play any instrument. You could have, say, a simple untss-untss drum pattern on a single channel by just playing bass drum and hihat after one another. Instruments can also loop, so there's essentially no specific length to notes.

Refer to this screenshot: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/de/a/a4/OpenMPT-1.17.02.53.png

--

Trackers don't have builtin samples, you have to supply them yourself. Samples are short sound clips that can be anything from a piano note to an explosion. You just load whatever samples you want to use and start jamming notes in. Your MIDI synth might already work in a similar manner with a builtin set of samples to play. You don't need to use a different sample for different notes of the same instrument (piano), the tracker just plays the same sample at different frequencies to achieve notes. If you, for example, play C-5 on instrument 1 (piano) and then a C-4, that C-4 will play the same piano sound but at half speed, and it will indeed sound one octave lower than C-5.

--

Let's look at the channel on the left. The top note is a 5th octave C. After that, three gaps. Another 5th octave C. The 02 right next to the note means that that note is played using instrument 2, whatever it is. If the instrument is a long one or loops, it will keep playing until it stops or another note is played. If instrument 2 would be a vocal clip like "hello world", that channel might sound something like this - first C-5 plays up to "hello w" and the second then starts again from "hello". You won't hear the "orld" from the first C-5, because the second C-5 kills it. You'd hear "hellowhello..".

What about the gaps then? They're just empty space, a tick of time. A tracker plays one line at a time. You can see the yellow line on that screenshot. Depending on the tempo of the second, that goes faster or slower. If you're familiar with scores, you could think that someone is moving a ruler from left to right, revealing notes for you to play.

What about quarter notes, full notes, 1/16th notes, etc? Try reading the first channel like this: Play C-5 for 4 lines, play C-5 for 4 lines, play C-5 for 4 lines, play C-5 for 2 lines, play C-5 for 2 lines, etc. You first determine what one line means with the tempo. You can choose it to be pretty much whatever you want. If you set one line to be 1/16th note (fast tempo), then you can read the first channel like this: Play C-5 as 1/4 note, play C-5 as 1/4 note, play C-5 as 1/4 note, play C-5 as 1/8 note, play C-5 as 1/8 note, etc. If you decide that you want one line to mean a 1/4th note, then the first channel is: Play C-5 as a full note, play C-5 as a full note, play C-5 as a full note, play C-5 as a half note, play C-5 as a half note, etc.

The rest of the markings on that channel are effects. Those "v08" and "v48" are simple volume changes. For example, the first channel says: Play C-5 for two lines at full volume, then drop volume to 08 but keep playing the sound. "D0F" is a volume slide. There are a variety of effects, the best reference is pretty much the help files of the tracker and trying them out.

All of this boils down to this; on each channel, you can play a note and have two different effects on it, but that's the maximum. (example: C-5 02 v48 D0F = play C-5 with instrument 2 with volume 48 and start a volume slide).

--

Patterns, then. They are basically clips of notes. If you have a pattern that is 64 rows long, and you've decided that one row is a 1/16 note, then one pattern is 4 bars (or 16 1/4 notes). Corresponding to MIDI, if you're using 4/4 time, that means one bar can take 4 1/4 notes. A tracker song is made out of these patterns. You can organize patterns in any order and even reuse patterns.

Patterns are quite useful because they can reduce work. When you look at 37272, you can see that it's doing pretty much the same time for many bars. In a MIDI sequencer, you'd copy/paste sets of notes after each other. With patterns, you just write the notes once and then modify the song pattern order so that it plays the pattern multiple times. If you modify the pattern later, it will affect every place right away. In the screenshot, the pattern play order is that string of numbers above the channels - 13, 14, 15, 9, 10, 12, ..

When the song is playing, it'll start from the left playing pattern 13, then it moves to pattern 14, 15, 9, and so on. If you're redo 37272 and reuse patterns, your play order might very well be 1, 1, 1, 1, 2, 2, 2, 2, etc (doing the same thing for a while, and then introducing another part).

--

Load some of your MIDIs up in OpenMPT and see what they look like (note data, patterns, song order). The MIDI import may not be perfect but it'll give you an idea of what familiar things look like as tracker songs. Experiment!

Save/export MOD in your MIDI sequencer? That's not possible, but OpenMPT can load up MIDI files, which you can then save into a module format. There are several formats available, and IT (if supported by whatever the playback component in the game will be) would be a good choice. MOD is an older format that has many limitations compared to IT.

Samples/instruments may be a bit tricky to find, all the good repositories are long gone (dead). Usually people just download other modules and get samples from those. Every module includes every sample it uses; those can be simply saved to disk. However, if you're just interested in converting MIDI files into IT files, there's a trick you can do in at least OpenMPT. If you find a good soundfont, you can load that up in OpenMPT and have it rip the samples straight out of it.

When you launch OpenMPT, you'll have the tree on the left. There's an item called "MIDI library". Right-click on it, "import MIDI library" and pick the soundfont. After that, choose to replace all instruments. Now load the MIDI.

OpenMPT will then grab whatever samples it needs straight out of the soundfont. OpenMPT might grab some extra stuff you don't need, so do a Edit / Cleanup / Cleanup song to automatically get rid of extra luggage. Save to IT by File / Compatibility Export. Usually this works fairly well, in some occasions some tweaking might be necessary.

Btw, regarding soundfonts, try Xioad.

Well, you've unfortunately hit the case where OpenMPT fails; soundfont instruments using specific features may not be imported correctly. This is where that "some tweaking" I mentioned is necessary. The instruments you're having trouble with are most likely ones that use multiple samples (all are instrument 1, but depending on what note is played, a different sample is played). Go to the Instrument tab and take a look at the note map, it will tell you which samples are being used by what notes.

You have two options for fixing this:

1) least effort - modify the note map so that every note plays only one sample (= the one that's in tune)
2) most effort - look at the sample numbers, go to Sample tab, and start going through the samples to locate the ones out of tune and basically tune them yourself (using the Frequency number)

If this sounds too daunting, review all your options and figure out if it's worth the effort:

1) use modules and redo the songs in a tracker from scratch - small filesize, lots of extra effort, plays back consistently
2) use modules and import the songs into a tracker - small filesize, zero (if everything goes well) to lots of extra effort (if you have to tweak), and if retuning isn't perfect it'll still sound out of tune to an experienced ear
3) use plain MIDI files - small filesize, but you will have zero guarantee on what it will sound on every computer; soundfonts will not help
4) work with MIDI but export to MP3/OGG - large filesize, very little extra effort, plays back consistently


Edited by inphy - 05 September 2010 at 4:21am

not really. currently the music is the biggest area of the game, alot of the graphics are done and the programming isn't at the point of demo's yet. unless we're supposed to create a different topic on different forums for each aspect and have a hell of a pain in the ass refering to things in different ones, i dont see what else we can do.

@ StraightBit: a little of both really ;)
(and he impressed me once again!)

@ inphy: (from this post) Thank you for the MIDI info! Your remix example of 37272 has the most beautiful strings! (the piano is a bit too strong compared to the twinkling bell instrument, tho, sorry!) I didn't know you could get such a lovely, natural performance with basic MIDI -- thank you! What instrument are you using for the strings?

Thank you also for the tracker info -- I suspected that the variety of options would mean it was pretty much open to the user! And good point about the sound fonts -- I do not think that full mp3s will be desirable, so using sound fonts does seems out of the question (unless they can be packed into an IT or MOD?).

@ Bannanawalrus: I have listened to 37310 and 37319. Your new strings are very lovely, and I like the instrument that comes in at 19 seconds (a tubular bell, maybe?). I agree that the dulcimer (that's what it was!) got a little annoying, but the beginning of the song really needs that light twinkle (if the notes are too 'heavy' they seem to last longer, so they feel like they're coming too close together) -- perhaps you can try dropping the octave after the rest of the song comes in . The instrument that starts up at 27 seconds (is this what you mean by 'OD guitar'?) does now sound pretty harsh compared to the strings -- perhaps all it needs is a bit of that velocity stuff inphy mentioned, to make it sound more 'human' and give it some modulation. Go ahead and try one with just the organ changed, too if you like. Also, I'll listen to the drums again and see if it wasn't just me! *.*

Thanks for your GML stuff -- looks like you know your way around it quite well!

From what I know, virtual instruments are pretty advanced, and it's tricky to find free ones, so I'd suggest only looking into that if you have the time or curiosity, and not as a priority.

I look forward to your experiments with the African vibe!

Also, if you don't mind keeping up the trials with MODs & ITs, and inphy doesn't mind helping you out with that, I'm very grateful for the effort, and very interested in the process. If it seems like it'll take a lot of long posts, though, maybe you guys can trade this stuff with PMs (but if it's not too much trouble, please both send me copies of them, so I can stay in the loop!).

@ onek: would this be an okay way to keep the topic on track? (or did you not mind that much?)

Oh um, I'll read all of that when I get a chance :O

I got School tomorrow so I've been busy, sorry about that xD


I dunno if it's good enough to be called done yet :P


Edited by Robinhood - 06 September 2010 at 2:08pm

looks good but i think he should wave his arms frantically :)

Edited by bannanawalrus - 07 September 2010 at 11:30am

'sup. its awesome. i love it.

Welcome, Synthesyze!
I hope you enjoy your time here as much as I do! I like your song -- it has a nice waltz feel to it. Can't think of a place for it yet (not every level &c. is done, of course) unless you don't mind changing it a little? (is there a way to make it sound good with a rhythm section added?) I think most of the first levels will have an island/savannah theme to them -- so I'm not sure if the song could be remixed to sound like that, or saved for a possible later cutscene?

As for what we need...well if it was left up to me, I'd go for an awesome soundtrack of the caliber of a Legend of Zelda game, for example. I can't say that a Zelda game is a perfect fit for a bouncy platformer, but it is a perfect example of how to get a range of styles and emotions (from happy to dark) into a coherent whole with a distinctive theme. Plus, I'm given a great boost of optimism for the possibility of indie games being able to achieve such levels when I listen to songs such as these:

Seiklus:
Puzzle Game 3
(the full soundtrack, in OGG and MOD/XM, here)

Cave Story:
Moonsong
Mimiga Town
Last Battle
(the full soundtrack, here)

Moon Boy Momotaro:
Run On Oranges
(this game is stalled ;O; but maybe mozzy will let us hear the others someday? plllz!)

Bonus:
"Breaks And Beats" from No-XS
(tripped over this while looking for the links above -- the pictures in it are pretty funny, too...)

And perhaps many others too numerous to mention, but I think that's the general idea (though I'd be very happy to get links to any other great examples that anybody may have).

Also, I heard that Cave Story was made with the PxTone tracker, but also with something called 'OrgMaker'. Anybody have any info to clear this up?

@ StraightBit: Yes, my camera is 'loose' from the player object, and uses higher speeds for larger distances. Can you suggest some sinusoidal calculations for optimum smoothness?

@ Robinhood: The sprite is cute (of course) and may need some extra limb wobble, as kenpokis mentioned, but be careful not to make him flail too much. In the classic Sonic games, for example, he has two tipping stages -- the first being more gentle than the last.

@ bannanawalrus:
37387 has a good vibe to it! The steel drum sounding instrument (the second one?) is a bit harsh, however, and the cymbal crash hurts my sensitive left ear, I'm afraid (don't know about anyone else, though). A bit too hectic for a full song, but it'd be great as a high-energy intro! If you can think of a nice groove of a melody for it to transition down into, that'd be cool.

37423 has a great icy feel to it (though there is an instrument in there that sounds a bit too much like a fog horn -- can it get some modulation so the notes don't hold so long?) and overall sounds very much like the inside of a cool cave. I'd also like to hear a rocking version, too, for a more outside feel, if that's okay (and maybe a slight arctic wind environmental effect might be possible for it, too?).

37424 I love how you put in the extra, different-sounding drum at the beginning, before the other one! Can you try a version with a wind instrument instead of a brass instrument as the lead? I think that'll help suggest open spaces -- but it should be kind of soft and not too high-pitched (pan pipes can sound great that way). I wrote about 37387 before listening to this, but I still think that a groovy, subtle version of the drums behind a playfully wistful melody might be perfect after the intro sequence! Terrific stuff again, thanks! (and please listen to the above links and let me know what you think!)

'Sall for now.

Hey, BW, 37439 has a terrific groove to it, thank you so much, it was great fun! The use of the steel drum (I think it was) as the second melody instrument just sets it off perfectly.

The drums during the main part of the song (from about 13 seconds on, I'd say) are great (especially that nice little fill at the end). At the moment, though, I think it's just a bit too hard to tell that there are two types of drums at the beginning (the very short intro drum which gives way to the other one) but otherwise I like where this is going!

The wind instrument does sound better than the horn to me, especially when mixed with those steel drums! But it's just a little flat on its own, so maybe the three or four long notes at the beginning can be a little higher pitched (believe it or not, I'm willing to risk a test of that!) or broken into shorter notes, or have a slightly 'cuter' flute instrument add a few peppy accents during the longer notes. Not sure which of these will sound best (or maybe you know an even better way?) but if you don't mind the trouble, would you please post three new versions, each with one of the three suggestions tried, and we can pick the best? Thanks again!

@NC
Of course, I can add a rhythm section. While I don't have first hand drum experience, I feel I can come up with a decent beat to go along with the song. In my mind, I was thinking of Mario's 1-1 theme, so that's how this song was influenced. If you could provide me with about exactly what songs you need, that would be great. I'll do my best to fit in some songwriting time into my schedule.

Those are really nice indie songs, however, they don't exactly fit my style, so if you wanted something like that, I'm afraid I can't provide you with the top quality. I can relate to LoZ though, so I understand what you mean.

Do those programs allow 8-bit? Since the online program I'm using is Noteflight, and I think I can probably export it to another program. I've heard people can export to places like Garageband.

@BW
Do you have music notation for some of these songs that you wrote? It would be easier for all of us to read and look at, so we can spot changes and help you improve the songs. Also, I could borrow some ideas and add my own style into it if that is okay.

I'm afraid I don't follow... I'm not that techy.

And I have updated with drums: http://www.noteflight.com/scores/view/e449777677af02627fbd08bee4a37a4520855f8c

ALERT! MUSIC DUMP!

Edited by bannanawalrus - 13 September 2010 at 11:51am

@ inphy:
Very good point. Perhaps for any questions that would take long answers, a link to a relevant site would be enough? What does everyone think about that?

@ BW:
Thanks for the organisation -- I was thinking we needed something like this. If it's not too much trouble, can you go ahead and go back over your posts and assign a name and number to each of them ('37269 = ending 0.1', &c.) and post the list?

Heh, a list of needed music assets -- now I'll have to do some actual work! I can fix up some kind of official list, but until then, I'm pretty sure we still need:
* A title screen music -- something to play while the title is displayed and while waiting for the player to 'press start'. (pretty sure this will have to sound islandy/nautical and with enough fun pep to encourage players to go and play!)
* An alternate boss music. I'd like to have 2 or three boss musics, ideally, for mid-bosses, level bosses, and the end-boss sequence. Frenetic might be okay, but sometimes an understated theme can be much more ominous.
* Menu music. Okay, I'm not too sure what kind of menu structure the game will have yet, but most games have menus, so why not? I'd say this one can be shamelessly chirpy, but also kind of neutral, since it's just waiting for a player to choose an option.

We also need 'outside', 'inside', and 'underwater' themes for each of the three areas planned (tentatively 'island', 'ruins', and 'industrial', with 'grass', 'ice', and 'fire' elements, respectively). I guess this is a good opportunity to go wild and come up with as many types of musics as you like, with all the creativity that you need, and then we can choose from the best ones? Or focus right in on, say, an 'ice shipwreck' theme, and we can iterate one song at a time until it's just right -- whichever you think is easiest for you!

Hope that's enough of a list for now!

@ Synthesyze: (as per this post) I forgot to mention anything specific for your question of what we need for the game, so I hope the above interim list will help you, also. I'm not sure how many of these will play to the strengths of your musical training (I'm afraid I'm ignorant to what that includes -- all the great classical styles, I assume?), since a strictly classical sound will probably be best for cut-scenes and non action sequences (as BW's 'ending' song demonstrates well), but of course most of the songs will need some kind of more modern, syncopated sound (as in BW's 'world one' song). I'm glad you brought up Mario's 1-1 song, because Mario soundtracks are video game classics, but I especially love the ones from 'Yoshi's Island'. Another great soundtrack is from 'Kirby's Dream Land 3'. That's the best I can do for references off the top of my head, but I hope it helps!

~ The Quick n Dirty Review Show: ~

Ending 1.0 (37472)
Yes, I think this one is almost done, too! There's a slightly flat sounding instrument that comes in at 27 seconds, but perhaps it can be modified to sound more rich and deep, like some kind of bass -- since I assume its job is to set off and complement the main melody.

World One 1.0 (37473)
I see almost no need of improvement here at all! The metal drum at the beginning (at six seconds in, after the wind instrument starts) and the ting-ting sound that accompanies it is perhaps too loud compared to the rest, though. (you may not need to try the other two variations, as mentioned here, but I guess I am still curious what they would sound like!)

Original Theme 1.0 (37475)
This one has a terrific intro (the 8 seconds at the beginning) with a great sound (not sure what that lead instrument is that the bell and birds are playing behind, but I love it) though I think it needs a slower 'in-and-out-surf' sound, since I was imagining the sound of the ocean opening the game, only with a slower rhythm. The second lead instrument has a good sound to it, also. But then a kind of horn comes in, and the drums are kinda all over the place (sorry!). I'm afraid it sounds very random in the main part to me, but if you can 'straighten' it out a bit, and coax up a cool melody to go with that terrific opening, then this little number has a lot of potential!

Boss 1.0 (37477)
The main instrument, and its melody, that comes in at about 3 seconds, has a good sound, especially for a boss music, but the song needs to be supported by a richer foundation. It needs some kind of orchestral sound (like strings) to fill it out and give it the proper atmosphere. The drums don't seem very focused (to my ear, there is almost no pattern), and perhaps need to be a little more orchestral, as well (a touch of the kettle drums, occasionally, is usually nice!). [if there are going to be more boss musics than one, then I think this may be a contender for final boss.]

Celebrate 1.0 (37482)
This one sounds good, too -- very happy like a celebration, as you said. I don't know how long it will take to go from the end of one level to the beginning of the next, but I would think that ideally it would be as swift as possible (even with score counting-down or whatever) which means that there may need to be a short version of the song (10-15 seconds?) but I don't know yet. There's a second instrument under the main one that may sound better as some kind of flute -- what do you think?

Dramatis Primoris 1.0 (37479)
I love when this one breaks into the drums at the beginning (about 13 seconds in) -- so much so that I sort of wish it happened a bit earlier in :)
[the following is where my abilities to talk about music break down, but please bear with me!] The song uses a 'phrase' that's about 5 seconds long, I guess, which repeats twice at the beginning, and then twice more before breaking into a very dramatic sequence (from 24 seconds to 35 seconds). I'm feeling that the second of the second set of 'phrases' (the fourth one) needs to be stepped-up (in the sense of phase change, not in the sense of made better) in some way to be a kind of anticipatory swell for the dramatic sequence (by going up at the beginning an extra amount, and then stepping down at the end). The juxtaposition should make the dramatic sequence even better! Also, is there a way to vary the cymbals a little -- they sound a little too wild for the tone of the song (I think its power is in its swells rather than in its crashes, if that makes sense).

Dramatis Secundus 1.0 (37480)
This one has such a beautiful opening! The cymbal crashes that start at 24 seconds are too harsh for it, though, I think. Maybe some kind of bell would be good? I'm going to risk mentioning tubular bells here, which I love, but which I hate when they are over-used :)
When the cymbals come in again at 43 seconds, a harsher sound is definitely more appropriate (I feel that the song has become more intense at this point, especially after the soft interlude) but they may still be a little too strong. Perhaps it only needs every other 'crash'? What do you think, an instrument change, or something else to sweeten the sound?

These two probably could be changed into level musics (the second one does almost sound like ice ruins to me, in a way) but they have a very strong cut-scene vibe to them, and could be saved for story-telling, too. Problem is, I'm hoping that 'cut-scenes' will be minimal (with swift, in-game sprite animations, I'm thinking), and these need space to properly shine -- I guess I won't be sure until it's more certain what kind of story-telling there will be.

Ice Cave 1.0 (37481)
This is absolutely lovely! And if I can get away with suggesting that each area of the island has a theme (such as ruins or factories) as well as an element (such as ice or fire), then for me, this is an almost perfect evocation of being in the belly of an ancient sailing ship that's been frozen in an ice field for a couple-hundred years -- a sort of unique take on an ice cave. I like the instrument that you used to sound like a chorus -- just a hint of ghost voices for a soft but haunting feel. Definitely keep up a hint of creepiness (though with the promise of treasure, arr!) with anything that you add to this -- as well as the loveliness!

Volcano 1.0 (37484)
Great mother of all monsters, I love this one. (see, that's the second time you've made me take Echidna's name in vain!) One of my favourite things in music is when there's a quirky juxtaposition between elements (high and low notes, for example) and I can't help but be sucked in completely by your use of stereo mixing in this one. There's an instrument that comes in at 16 seconds which sounds pretty great. I think it plays 5 fairly long notes and then five more. My only pick is that the fourth and fifth notes played each time are a little flat -- not quite punching through to the lizard brain like the first three of each set, which are terrific (I especially like how the second set starts out a bit higher, as an 'answer' to the first set). I actually don't know if it needs a chord change, or to go higher or lower -- maybe you can try something and let me know what you think. Also, on my computer at least, at the very end it sounds like it stereo-jumps to the right speaker, but misses a chance to jump over to the left one (I think it returns to centre).

Wow, it's taken me a number of days to properly make that review, but I didn't want it to be piecemeal (hope I haven't made it a hog's brekkers instead). Absolutely top hole collection here -- consider me pleased (nay, chuffed) at how well the soundtrack is promising up. I'm very grateful for all the effort! (I hope you're like ^v^ over all this text and not @_@')

S'long for now!

As I mentioned, I can probably gain my influences from games like Mario and Zelda, as well as Pokemon. :)

I can see what you mean, however, IMHO, I feel that the rising prepares each measure for the next section, especially for chorus-like section (M9-16). The song doesn't have very means places to rest, so it's not exactly like asking or answering a question, but that part provides more of a support.

But, I've changed M4 in a way I think will work to your liking: http://www.noteflight.com/scores/view/e449777677af02627fbd08bee4a37a4520855f8c

quite nice , like the 'world one' one..
.. but for me the tracks are a bit too busy, especially the drums. also too many variations and not really a constant tune... maybe try a more minimalistic approach, otherwise its probably drawing away too much attention from the game itself... and still im not too fond of midi-instruments (more SAW and PULSE please :)

Edited by onek - 18 September 2010 at 4:36am

@ninja crow:
i wouldnt go for a fusion kind of think, its like having hires bitmaps mixed with good old pixelart... meh!!..
also i dont agree with chiptunes having a hard time with nice sounding drums
with good tweaking its well possible to make a nice 'in ur face' snare drum or a phat bassdrum, u can even use samples....
also, my concern about the drum part wasnt rly the sound, more the rhythm, its just too much and too hectic

I change it to your liking, however I did not include your suggestion of adding the 16th notes of the C, since it makes the part sound very rushed.
As a side note, I'm into jazz and hip-hop, but I use to listen to rock, so I can have those elements too.
I'm afraid I enjoy having strong melodies repeat. I think it comes from listening to videogame music though, since many times, the composer will have a melody repeat a few times. Take Mario for example. I'm sure if you listen, you will find a section that repeats itself a few times. I can understand your feelings though, so I believe I can attempt to work with it.
I believe you mean the melody that starts at M9, so I added a little in between the 8 measures, separating them into 4 and 4. I don't think it makes a large difference, but it does separate the long 8 measures into two groups of 4.

http://www.noteflight.com/scores/view/e449777677af02627fbd08bee4a37a4520855f8c

loving the termite mound idea DEFINITELY. will get to work. also i will hopefully change up the the ice cave too.

Edited by bannanawalrus - 22 September 2010 at 11:05am

S'okay, RH (just read all my posts! )

@ BW: 'termites v1.0' is a perfectly fine name for it (though, 'OMG Termites!i! Run!i!' might be even better...) and the song is pretty cool! You surprised me with a song that has a very industrial pace to it, which is fitting for a colony full of workers of course (and better than a generic 'creepy cave' which was my mind's place-holder) - but now I'll have to work the level into having a lot more activity in it! I absolutely love the part at the very end where it sort of shifts down a gear, which is a really nice accent to the main melody - more like that, please! Oh, and now that you've made me think of a busy hive, you'll have to see if you can't add machine noises like steam bursts and metal tings for that whole factory sound!

Booooooop:  Victory dance initiated.  Face is hard to see, dunno what I can do about it.

I don't know what I was smoking, but it must've been good to make me think that that wobble/teeter animation was good.  I redesign it later.

@ BW: Thas a cool tiger, mate!
'Title v1.0 (37804)' is quite adorable, with a terrific 'Waitin for ya to press start' feel. There's a storybook quality to it that reminds me of Yoshi's Island, so your evil plot to appeal to me through making it lovable has worked. ;)

'Ice outdoor v1.0 (37803)' is pretty cool. It definitely evokes for me the image of an aftermath of 19th century exploration to the frozen northlands, which I was picturing as a way to give the level some visual, thematic punch. The almost forlorn sound to the opening is just about perfect -- I like it. Just as the long note hits at the end, though, it might need to 'break into' a main section with a bit more energy (this is just to balance it for being in a platformer, not as a hit against the song).

(hmm, a demo, hey? I'll have to find some stout boots and good thick gloves because that there demo be a slippery beast to hunt -- but I'll catch it eventually, you can mark my words on it.)

Yes 'title v1.0' is very good for an opening, provided it can be scripted to the game's intro properly. The music needs to swell cinematically, or have a catchy bounce in it, to coincide with the title appearing. The problem is, I don't know how long the part before the title will be, yet. :(

The cinematic approach can be illustrated with my new favourite thing, 'Ni No Kuni', which is a video game from Studio Ghibli and Level 5! Here is a Japanese trailer from the 2009 TGS.

The bouncy approach can be illustrated by an older favourite thing of mine, 'Klonoa: Door to Phantomile'. There is a short cinema at the beginning of this video of its opening, and then the title comes on with literally bouncing letters, and a cute jingle. I love this game so much!

I hope I love Ni No Kuni, too. Ghibli has made some of the greatest animated films of all time, and Level 5 is a very high-quality developer. I'm really hoping for magic here -- and it's very inspiring!